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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] WildStar: Ready to Raid

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85 posts found
  Siris23

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/13/09
Posts: 161

10/24/13 12:31:40 PM#21
Originally posted by Zapzap
Originally posted by Siris23

Well, I guess I'm happy the hardcore crowd gets their content, but it doesn't sound like there's going to be any casual raiding and I just can't schedule my time around an MMO any more.

Hopefully the "lots of other content" will include casual large group PvE content that will be just as entertaining as raiding. 

 
 

20 man raids are for the casuals and will be tuned more for casuals.  They also have put a strong emphasis on creating endgame content for solo/casual players with monthly solo instances, small dungeons and new storylines.

Solo/small group end game content is fine but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about logging in on a random day of the week and be able to hop into a big event (I.E. a PUG or semi-organized group)

Maybe 20-mans will fill this gap, I don't know. I haven't seen much on them other than they exist and aren't just scaled down versions of the 40-mans.

  mindw0rk

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 1316

10/24/13 12:41:47 PM#22
40 man raids are huge mistake. They should learn from WoW, not step on same rake
  Datastar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/07/13
Posts: 132

10/24/13 1:01:04 PM#23
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Avarix

Have to be honest, for a while I was been kind of 'MEH' about this game. The more I read and hear from the devs though, the more I am interested. I just hope most of what they say isn't spin. My main concern right now is combat and classes.

 

In most games when they introduce new classes, I have a hard time finding one I like. By trying to make new classes most games try new mechanics or to meld abilities from two classic classes into this new one(You no longer play a Wizard, but a Wizard that backstabs and carries a greatsword!). Most of the time I end up really disliking the classes and never finding one that fits. My other issue is the emphasis on telegraphs. I have no clue how this will play out but just from observation alone, it makes it seem like it will turn the fun of killing monsters into the MMO waltz. 

 

As for what they are saying about raiding, I like it. I am not a hardcore raider, never have been, but I think having a portion of the game that not everyone, or even a majority, gets to experience is an undervalued part of MMORPGs. I think it keeps players reaching, which will keep them playing. So far I am looking forward to this one.

Over-valued in my opinion.  It only keeps a small niche of gamers reaching.  What's worse, they are a very vocal and abusive group of gamers who constantly scream about new content, usually only the kind they like at the expense of everyone else, especially the masses who foot the bill for said raid content.  I think the typical formula of abusing regular gamers in order to subsidize elitist content is getting really, really old.

Its not as small niche as you think look at sub numbers from wow the more they headed away from epic raids the less folks they have I would say if anything 50-60% of the mmorpg community is like myself having very fond memories of molten core and illidan etc and we have been endlessly searching for that experience again as blizzard moves farther and farther away from it. Unfortunately no other game has delivered this gameplay back to the community on the scale Wildstar aims to.  Who better then to put down a sick dog then the parents of that sick dog go go carbine!!!

  flguy147

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/09
Posts: 374

10/24/13 1:17:09 PM#24
I will play this game but its gonna be hard filling up 40 man raids nowadays.  Finding 40 people with the same work schedule or schedule at all will be difficult because things happen in real life.   Its hard enough to find 5 people for dungeons a lot of times and extremely hard to fill up 20 man raids consistently.  
  Zapzap

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/13
Posts: 197

10/24/13 1:44:30 PM#25
Originally posted by Siris23
Originally posted by Zapzap
Originally posted by Siris23

Well, I guess I'm happy the hardcore crowd gets their content, but it doesn't sound like there's going to be any casual raiding and I just can't schedule my time around an MMO any more.

Hopefully the "lots of other content" will include casual large group PvE content that will be just as entertaining as raiding. 

 
 

20 man raids are for the casuals and will be tuned more for casuals.  They also have put a strong emphasis on creating endgame content for solo/casual players with monthly solo instances, small dungeons and new storylines.

Solo/small group end game content is fine but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about logging in on a random day of the week and be able to hop into a big event (I.E. a PUG or semi-organized group)

Maybe 20-mans will fill this gap, I don't know. I haven't seen much on them other than they exist and aren't just scaled down versions of the 40-mans.

I understand what you are saying.  But this may take some time with Carbines philosophy of challenge and difficulty.  It might be some time before a PuG will be capable of downing many raid bosses.  But as people gear up and make progress I am sure this will happen.  Top raid guilds run alt runs and pug runs pretty quickly after a dungeon goes on farm. Although those will be a lot harder to get into.  But all PuG raid runs I bet will take quite some time after they released  before they are doable by true PuGs.  I would hope at least 6+ months.

 

Carbine has expressed some novel ideas for ways of getting people involved that normally could not take down a raid boss.  Gaffney proposed what he called the "Million idiot march" where occasionally they will open some very difficult raid bosses for a weekend to an unlimited amount of players and see how do as a zerg.  Taking off the 40 man restriction and allowing players to zerg the boss.   Speculation is rampant as to whether the addition  of unorganized  players  would be beneficial. I have no clue how they would handle loot for such a thing but my guess is would be nerfed for the lower challenge.  But it sounds like a fun idea and hopefully something they will allow us to watch in spectator mode similar to the spectator mode they have planned for PvP.

 
  nerovipus32

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2643

10/24/13 1:53:42 PM#26
Raids just kill open world immersion. why don't they just make lobby based games with 40 man raids because that's all that most mmo's are these days. Some of us more intelligent folk want a deeper experience. I think a split in the genre is badly needed.
  nerovipus32

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2643

10/24/13 1:58:19 PM#27
Wildstar will look so stupid when they don't have enough players to fill those 40 man raids. This game will probably reach the same numbers rift did and then tail off and become f2p.
  emperorwings

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/06
Posts: 1247

10/24/13 1:59:48 PM#28
Not interested in raiding since I got Frostifre Ring from Kelthazar in WoW

This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1382

10/24/13 2:09:35 PM#29
40 man raids = lol

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  TiamatRoar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/05/10
Posts: 79

10/24/13 2:12:10 PM#30

A recommendation to MMO developers:  Don't waste time and resources developing 40 man raids unless you're absolutely sure you'll have a large enough player base to support it.

 

Maybe Wildstar will.  But the verdict's still out on that one so that development time and money could have gone elsewhere, IMHO.  WoW had the playerbase to support 40 man raids, but Wild Star is never going to have the same size playerbase as WoW (NO MMORPG ever will again, EVER, really), so developing 40 man raids is literally risky business.

 
  qombi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 1187

10/24/13 2:51:36 PM#31
Originally posted by TiamatRoar

A recommendation to MMO developers:  Don't waste time and resources developing 40 man raids unless you're absolutely sure you'll have a large enough player base to support it.

 

Maybe Wildstar will.  But the verdict's still out on that one so that development time and money could have gone elsewhere, IMHO.  WoW had the playerbase to support 40 man raids, but Wild Star is never going to have the same size playerbase as WoW (NO MMORPG ever will again, EVER, really), so developing 40 man raids is literally risky business.

 

I always find it funny when people state absolutes about the future. My friend told me once when I was watching him play MUDDs that a graphical online game where everyone could play together was impossible and would never happen. He made this comment after I stated imagine one day all of this happening in a world with graphics. I really get a good laugh thinking back to that comment.

World of Warcraft didn't know how many subscriptions they would have at first either but they had large scale content in the works. As a designer I imagine you make a game based on a vision of what will make a great game. I myself am looking forward to playing Wildstar. I can't wait.

  Blackaddera

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/28/13
Posts: 65

10/24/13 3:27:23 PM#32

I played WoW from the very beginning till Ulduar. The time i remember most fondly was when there were 40 man raids. Our guild didn't always get an entire group together but when we did we all had a laugh, in TBC we started to raid the 25-man with 15-18 ppl and had no probs with it. And in WotLK I soloed most if not all 5-man quest.  And yeah I was a tank (Tauren Feral Druid).

I hope Wildstar will bring back some of that vanilla WoW feeling.

the steel shines red with enemy blood. It sings of victory, granted by the gods. And as they return bleeding but proud, the horizon burns and the song is ringing LOUD!

  EvolvedMonky

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/08
Posts: 562

10/24/13 3:41:00 PM#33
Originally posted by qombi
Originally posted by TiamatRoar

A recommendation to MMO developers:  Don't waste time and resources developing 40 man raids unless you're absolutely sure you'll have a large enough player base to support it.

 

Maybe Wildstar will.  But the verdict's still out on that one so that development time and money could have gone elsewhere, IMHO.  WoW had the playerbase to support 40 man raids, but Wild Star is never going to have the same size playerbase as WoW (NO MMORPG ever will again, EVER, really), so developing 40 man raids is literally risky business.

 

I always find it funny when people state absolutes about the future. My friend told me once when I was watching him play MUDDs that a graphical online game where everyone could play together was impossible and would never happen. He made this comment after I stated imagine one day all of this happening in a world with graphics. I really get a good laugh thinking back to that comment.

World of Warcraft didn't know how many subscriptions they would have at first either but they had large scale content in the works. As a designer I imagine you make a game based on a vision of what will make a great game. I myself am looking forward to playing Wildstar. I can't wait.

Your comparing technical limitations vs Consumer Trend.

 

And yes Blizzard knew WoW would be huge.   Warcraft 3, Starcraft and diablo 2 both had big sales.... They had huge amounts of buyers who would buy anything they put out. Sorta like making Grand Theft Auto online 2 (and charging for this one).

So yes they knew that it would be big, it just turned out bigger. The success of WoW is more complicated than just they had vision or they made there game like this... blah blah blah..

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5164

Opportunist

10/24/13 4:04:07 PM#34
Originally posted by qombi
Originally posted by TiamatRoar

A recommendation to MMO developers:  Don't waste time and resources developing 40 man raids unless you're absolutely sure you'll have a large enough player base to support it.

 

Maybe Wildstar will.  But the verdict's still out on that one so that development time and money could have gone elsewhere, IMHO.  WoW had the playerbase to support 40 man raids, but Wild Star is never going to have the same size playerbase as WoW (NO MMORPG ever will again, EVER, really), so developing 40 man raids is literally risky business.

 

I always find it funny when people state absolutes about the future. My friend told me once when I was watching him play MUDDs that a graphical online game where everyone could play together was impossible and would never happen. He made this comment after I stated imagine one day all of this happening in a world with graphics. I really get a good laugh thinking back to that comment.

World of Warcraft didn't know how many subscriptions they would have at first either but they had large scale content in the works. As a designer I imagine you make a game based on a vision of what will make a great game. I myself am looking forward to playing Wildstar. I can't wait.

Right, but does it make sense to compare Wildstart, a completely unknown IP, to the Warcraft franchise that was already huge before WoW? I'm pretty confident that Blizzard had a fairly good idea that their IP would be popular as an online multiplayer game. I can accept they didn't foresee the scope of their popularity, but I can't accept the correlation between the success of WoW and of Wildstar.

You being a designer and projecting your vision for game design motivating you to play the game, don't really apply to your retort. They are irrelevant.

What makes you think Wildstar even stands a chance at success on a scale of Warcraft? I don't even have confidence that Blizzard could reproduce that measure of success with their next MMO. I can agree that absolutely dismissing the possibility of that scale of success is overstated, but I have seen nothing at all to think that Wildstar or any other game on the radar, will be the next exception to the rule.

  qombi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 1187

10/24/13 4:05:23 PM#35
Originally posted by EvolvedMonky
Originally posted by qombi
Originally posted by TiamatRoar

A recommendation to MMO developers:  Don't waste time and resources developing 40 man raids unless you're absolutely sure you'll have a large enough player base to support it.

 

Maybe Wildstar will.  But the verdict's still out on that one so that development time and money could have gone elsewhere, IMHO.  WoW had the playerbase to support 40 man raids, but Wild Star is never going to have the same size playerbase as WoW (NO MMORPG ever will again, EVER, really), so developing 40 man raids is literally risky business.

 

I always find it funny when people state absolutes about the future. My friend told me once when I was watching him play MUDDs that a graphical online game where everyone could play together was impossible and would never happen. He made this comment after I stated imagine one day all of this happening in a world with graphics. I really get a good laugh thinking back to that comment.

World of Warcraft didn't know how many subscriptions they would have at first either but they had large scale content in the works. As a designer I imagine you make a game based on a vision of what will make a great game. I myself am looking forward to playing Wildstar. I can't wait.

Your comparing technical limitations vs Consumer Trend.

 

And yes Blizzard knew WoW would be huge.   Warcraft 3, Starcraft and diablo 2 both had big sales.... They had huge amounts of buyers who would buy anything they put out. Sorta like making Grand Theft Auto online 2 (and charging for this one).

So yes they knew that it would be big, it just turned out bigger. The success of WoW is more complicated than just they had vision or they made there game like this... blah blah blah..

Exactly, they didn't know how big nor can anyone predict how big or not so much this game will be. People can assume. If market trends are a sign then we would have a lot of rich developers instead of the game flops we have seen. Who predicted how big Minecraft would be? No one.  If you can give future absolutes then you should be one rich man. Not saying you are going to be wrong, I am only saying stating absolutes about the future is wrong because it hasn't happened yet. There is no way of knowing.

  

  qombi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 1187

10/24/13 4:11:32 PM#36
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by qombi
Originally posted by TiamatRoar

A recommendation to MMO developers:  Don't waste time and resources developing 40 man raids unless you're absolutely sure you'll have a large enough player base to support it.

 

Maybe Wildstar will.  But the verdict's still out on that one so that development time and money could have gone elsewhere, IMHO.  WoW had the playerbase to support 40 man raids, but Wild Star is never going to have the same size playerbase as WoW (NO MMORPG ever will again, EVER, really), so developing 40 man raids is literally risky business.

 

I always find it funny when people state absolutes about the future. My friend told me once when I was watching him play MUDDs that a graphical online game where everyone could play together was impossible and would never happen. He made this comment after I stated imagine one day all of this happening in a world with graphics. I really get a good laugh thinking back to that comment.

World of Warcraft didn't know how many subscriptions they would have at first either but they had large scale content in the works. As a designer I imagine you make a game based on a vision of what will make a great game. I myself am looking forward to playing Wildstar. I can't wait.

Right, but does it make sense to compare Wildstart, a completely unknown IP, to the Warcraft franchise that was already huge before WoW? I'm pretty confident that Blizzard had a fairly good idea that their IP would be popular as an online multiplayer game. I can accept they didn't foresee the scope of their popularity, but I can't accept the correlation between the success of WoW and of Wildstar.

You being a designer and projecting your vision for game design motivating you to play the game, don't really apply to your retort. They are irrelevant.

What makes you think Wildstar even stands a chance at success on a scale of Warcraft? I don't even have confidence that Blizzard could reproduce that measure of success with their next MMO. I can agree that absolutely dismissing the possibility of that scale of success is overstated, but I have seen nothing at all to think that Wildstar or any other game on the radar, will be the next exception to the rule.

Minecraft, that came from no where. :P I am sure Blizzard hoped for great success, no one knew who popular that game would be. I think Wildstar has a chance to be as big as WoW if it is a good game and the stars align, just as much as another other great game in the right place at the right time.

I am not going to say Wildstar will be a huge success because that is the future and I do not know. Do I think it will likely have as many subs as WoW? Probably not, but not absolutely certain!

  Alders

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1548

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10/24/13 4:12:53 PM#37

My main concern currently is the classes or lack there of.

I'm a fan of many varied play styles and 6 classes doesn't seem nearly enough to me.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5164

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10/24/13 4:18:08 PM#38

You could make that argument about any game released. "You never, know this could be as big as WoW!" That's not a very realistic perspective is it?

What are the differences between Minecraft and Wildstar (or any other standard fare MMO slated for release). Minecraft reinvented a gameplay mechanic, on a fairly unique technology platform, in a manner that hadn't been previously accomplished on that scale. It allowed players to do things they really couldn't before in a way that had it's own unique twist. Wildstar is doing none of that. In fact there is nothing distinguishing, in that manner, about Wildstar at all.

I will agree that the next "big" game that offers those, or similar, original qualities will definitely have a likely potential for that scale of success.

How do you see Wildstar accomplishing that?

  sirchive

Novice Member

Joined: 12/18/03
Posts: 50

10/24/13 4:58:53 PM#39

I consider it a very bad sign that the Wildstar developers are making a point about attracting the "top raiding guilds in the world" . The 99% of us MMO players who play for fun, adventure and a little friendly social interaction could not possibly care less about the top raiding guilds. 

Put a big focus on large scale raiding and for every raider you attract you are likely to lose a dozen casual players. The primary reason that raiding still persists as a focus in WoW is because Blizzard has made raiding accessible to the average player.

If you focus on "hard-core" raiders you may well find that there are not as many of them as you think. A lot of the people who loved hard-core raiding back in the days of vanilla WoW are now 30 years old with jobs and kids and 8 years spent grinding away in MMOs. These players are much less open to miserable grinds and painful challenges than they were a decade ago. 

  monarc333

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/16/07
Posts: 590

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10/24/13 5:02:02 PM#40
I like raiding. Raiding is and was fun. But, I dont miss the 40 man raids. As far as I'm concerned those can go the way of the dinosaur. 20 man and 10 man raiding is where the real fun and challenge is. Not sure why they are sticking with 40 man, but I dont think they will like the turnout for those.
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