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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » LoL is way more popular than WoW

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214 posts found
  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

10/21/13 10:08:43 PM#121
Originally posted by iridescence

The lesson I wish MMOs would learn from LoL is "It's better to do one thing and do it better than anyone else than try to be all things to all people. Know your core audience and give them what they want."

Too many games try to please everyone and as a result end up pleasing no one.

If by "pleasing no one" you mean "multiple millions more than the narrow-focus titles", you might be accurate.

Let's remember, damned few of Ye Olden Games of Yore Most Revered and Holy have ever pushed a half-mill. Ever.

The esteem we hold them in has little or nothing to do with commercial success.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  iridescence

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 943

10/21/13 10:42:18 PM#122
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by iridescence

The lesson I wish MMOs would learn from LoL is "It's better to do one thing and do it better than anyone else than try to be all things to all people. Know your core audience and give them what they want."

Too many games try to please everyone and as a result end up pleasing no one.

If by "pleasing no one" you mean "multiple millions more than the narrow-focus titles", you might be accurate.

Let's remember, damned few of Ye Olden Games of Yore Most Revered and Holy have ever pushed a half-mill. Ever.

The esteem we hold them in has little or nothing to do with commercial success.

WoW is the only MMO to count itself its subs in "multiple millions" and I think it's an anomaly.  Better to have a smaller but loyal audience than start with a slightly larger one but then lose most of them after a month or two and soon have to go F2P. I would be willing to bet that an MMO will never see 10 million subs again. That's just not the natural size of the market and new MMOs just hurt themselves a lot by trying to be the "WoW killer"

 

 

LoL is really good at the kind of team arena combat it does and has attracted tons of users by focusing on that. The current generation of MMOs could definitely learn something from that.

 

  aspekx

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2150

10/21/13 10:43:10 PM#123
so is world of tanks.

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19117

 
OP  10/22/13 10:21:25 AM#124
Originally posted by Xthos
 

I am not so sure that they are losing faith, I think they are unsure of what needs to be next.  They originally took the EQ model imo, and looked at ways to make it more casual/quick.  Then, if anything new was coming out, that people were excited about, they adapted it to WoW.  

 

That is losing faith. They are no longer "sure" that MMORPG is needed to be next.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19117

 
OP  10/22/13 10:22:18 AM#125
Originally posted by aspekx
so is world of tanks.

Yeh .. another interesting comparison.

 

... again showing that instanced, convenient pvp games are bigger than the biggest MMORPGs.

 

  goldtoof

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

10/22/13 12:18:15 PM#126
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Originally posted by Beatnik59

Yes...League of Legends IS more popular than World of Warcraft.

Why is this surprising?  The entire point of online entertainment development over the last ten years was focused on three things:

1)  Eliminating downtime and getting people to the combat faster.

2)  Focusing all development on delivering the combat, streamlining it away from things extraneous to the combat.

3)  Making the combat faster, harder and more reactive than cerebral.

League of Legends is simply World of Warcraft outsimplifying World of Warcraft.  I mean, when you get to World of Warcraft, you already have an MMO that has discarded everything extraneous (deep character creation, housing, roleplay, worldliness, etc.), while still remaining an MMO.  What League of Legends did was just remove all the remaining MMO stuff that kept WoW from delivering the combat faster: the character creator, the common zones, the chains, the guilds.

Is it an MMO anymore? Well, it is about as MMO as the Morlocks from The Time Machine are human beings.  Genetically, League of Legends might share World of Warcraft "DNA," but it is a far cry from what MMOs used to be, back in the belle époque of the early 21st century.

I used to say, back in the days of WoW dominance, that the MMO that would supplant WoW wouldn't even be an MMO in the traditional sense.  Because you can only simplify so much, before you have to get rid of the residual MMO stuff like asking for invites into groups, the guild tags, the chat boxes, and the character creator.  So it isn't surprising to me that League of Legends out-WoWed World of Warcraft.  One could say we should have predicted it.

 

Your wrong.  MOBA are literally RTS dumbed down to heroes.  These games are point and click RTS games stripped of resource gather, unit command and building with a slapped on temporary leveling system.   That's their roots not WoW.  They have not "DNA" with WoW.   They're not point in comparing the games one is persistent personal character RPG and this is a hero RTS pregenerated temporary heroes.

I've never got mobas, i've tried both LOL and DOTA2 - hell Valve have bombarded me with at least 20 keys for DOTA2.  But I never saw the point to them.

I would rather play a competative match of DOW2 or something, which plays pretty similar, but at least the maps change.

Perhaps its a generational thing, are MOBAs the domain of cool young people or something?

But yeah they are more like a mash up of hero orientated RTS's like warcraft 3 and DOW 2 with elements of tower defence games and diablo.  I dont see the wow similarity at all either

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19117

 
OP  10/22/13 6:39:29 PM#127
Originally posted by goldtoof
 

I've never got mobas, i've tried both LOL and DOTA2 - hell Valve have bombarded me with at least 20 keys for DOTA2.  But I never saw the point to them.

It is ok. You don't have to tens of millions of gamers that like something else, nor the pro e-sport athletes who devotes their life on the games.

Not everyone reads Jane Austin either.

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 998

10/22/13 6:53:03 PM#128
Originally posted by iridescence
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by iridescence

The lesson I wish MMOs would learn from LoL is "It's better to do one thing and do it better than anyone else than try to be all things to all people. Know your core audience and give them what they want."

Too many games try to please everyone and as a result end up pleasing no one.

If by "pleasing no one" you mean "multiple millions more than the narrow-focus titles", you might be accurate.

Let's remember, damned few of Ye Olden Games of Yore Most Revered and Holy have ever pushed a half-mill. Ever.

The esteem we hold them in has little or nothing to do with commercial success.

WoW is the only MMO to count itself its subs in "multiple millions" and I think it's an anomaly.  Better to have a smaller but loyal audience than start with a slightly larger one but then lose most of them after a month or two and soon have to go F2P. I would be willing to bet that an MMO will never see 10 million subs again. That's just not the natural size of the market and new MMOs just hurt themselves a lot by trying to be the "WoW killer"

 

 

LoL is really good at the kind of team arena combat it does and has attracted tons of users by focusing on that. The current generation of MMOs could definitely learn something from that.

 

 

Exactly this.  Not to mention in a time when the market is flooded with generic quest hub grinders and failing to hold subs that games would diversify to fill other niches.  Because at this point outside WoW most of these games have niche number anyways.  

  Silax

Novice Member

Joined: 10/22/04
Posts: 256

10/22/13 7:09:49 PM#129
This just in!  Soccer more popular than Football!  ESPN now dropping NFL contracts for FIFA.  Americans thrilled.
  Ginaz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 1678

10/22/13 7:18:19 PM#130
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Dontneed
so eventually make kids think as if  'esports' is same as real sports.

Not only kids. The US govt agrees that e-sport is same as real sports and e-athletes can be classified as athletes for visa purposes.

And if olympics recognize e-sport .. what more do you need?

A fat, bald middle aged professional bowler is more of an athlete than an e-sport "athlete" ever will be.

BTW, World of Tanks claims to have around 70 million registered users, too, and had over 800k users playing at one time on the Russian servers.  I have a feeling they probably make more money than LoL.

http://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/46/world-tanks-sets-new-guinness-world-record/

 

Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  Zorgo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2187

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

10/22/13 7:25:59 PM#131
Originally posted by Ginaz
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Dontneed
so eventually make kids think as if  'esports' is same as real sports.

Not only kids. The US govt agrees that e-sport is same as real sports and e-athletes can be classified as athletes for visa purposes.

And if olympics recognize e-sport .. what more do you need?

A fat, bald middle aged professional bowler is more of an athlete than an e-sport "athlete" ever will be.

I'm sure it's just a vocabulary issue - if it were called a 'competitors' visa, it would be more accurate. They deserve a visa for being involved in a competition, not because they are 'athletic'. Because they named the visa an 'athlete's' visa, likely before the computer was invented, it does not mean that the visa controls the definition of an 'athlete' for the future.

But that being said, would a e-sport "athlete" be more of an athlete than the bowler if he/she could also run marathons? Maybe they game on an exercise bike with ankle weights......

 

  RabidMouth

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 187

10/22/13 7:31:30 PM#132
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Dontneed
so eventually make kids think as if  'esports' is same as real sports.

Not only kids. The US govt agrees that e-sport is same as real sports and e-athletes can be classified as athletes for visa purposes.

And if olympics recognize e-sport .. what more do you need?

I will need a bullet to the head. Just the idea that they might even consider adding esports to the Olympics makes me cringe. There is not even a comparison in the difference in talent between a real athlete and one of these "eathletes." It already makes me sick that the US passed that law.

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

  agentsi1511

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 10

10/22/13 7:33:33 PM#133

It's kind of crazy the extent of which fan boys will go to get the point across that their favorite game at the moment is more popular than WoW.

 

I've played my fair share of MOBA's, and its very clear to anyone who plays them often. LoL is for the lesser skilled crowd(overall). It's easier to get into, easier to learn, a lot more forgiving when you're a new/bad player. DotA2/HoN are way more fast paced(HoN gameplay is actually 25% faster than DotA2's) with a much steeper learning curve. Faster pace, requires quicker reactions, requires strategizing differently to adapt. Now the top LoL players are different, they would be top players in HoN, or DotA2 simply because they're good. But on average, if you're new, you play LoL. Once you've learned it you move onto the adult games ie: DotA2 and HoN.

 

But back on topic... WoW has to be the most successful in terms of revenue generated of any game period. I would be surprised if a game has generated more than them. So many years at the top of the heap, and they still are.. It's crazy. No one has 1/10 of wow's current subs. FFXIV would be the closest game but I doubt even that is close.

 

So no, LoL is not more popular than WoW in terms of finance. In terms of being free and appealing to the young adults in this world? Probably. But it will NEVER make anywhere close to the amount of money WoW has produced for Blizzard.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19117

 
OP  10/22/13 7:35:10 PM#134
Originally posted by CowboyHat
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Dontneed
so eventually make kids think as if  'esports' is same as real sports.

Not only kids. The US govt agrees that e-sport is same as real sports and e-athletes can be classified as athletes for visa purposes.

And if olympics recognize e-sport .. what more do you need?

I will need a bullet to the head. Just the idea that they might even consider adding esports to the Olympics makes me cringe. There is not even a comparison in the difference in talent between a real athlete and one of these "eathletes." It already makes me sick that the US passed that law.

 

"comparison in difference in talent" .. .i don't suppose you think you hold a candle to those e-athletes? Have you seen the koreans playing SC2 (another e-sport games). They can do hundreds of actions every min. How many can you do?

I doubt many current olympians can beat those e-athletes in their respective games too.

But guess what, you can cringe all you want but you are not the one who is making the decision, are you?

 

  RabidMouth

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 187

10/22/13 7:36:47 PM#135
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by CowboyHat
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Dontneed
so eventually make kids think as if  'esports' is same as real sports.

Not only kids. The US govt agrees that e-sport is same as real sports and e-athletes can be classified as athletes for visa purposes.

And if olympics recognize e-sport .. what more do you need?

I will need a bullet to the head. Just the idea that they might even consider adding esports to the Olympics makes me cringe. There is not even a comparison in the difference in talent between a real athlete and one of these "eathletes." It already makes me sick that the US passed that law.

 

"comparison in difference in talent" .. .i don't suppose you think you hold a candle to those e-athletes? Have you seen the koreans playing SC2 (another e-sport games). They can do hundreds of actions every min. How many can you do?

I doubt many current olympians can beat those e-athletes in their respective games too.

But guess what, you can cringe all you want but you are not the one who is making the decision, are you?

 

Are we going to make playing the piano a sport too?

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

  Xthos

Elite Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2623

10/22/13 7:38:58 PM#136
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Xthos
 

I am not so sure that they are losing faith, I think they are unsure of what needs to be next.  They originally took the EQ model imo, and looked at ways to make it more casual/quick.  Then, if anything new was coming out, that people were excited about, they adapted it to WoW.  

 

That is losing faith. They are no longer "sure" that MMORPG is needed to be next.

 

 I don't really consider that losing faith...A unemployed person may know they need a job, but be unaware of what it will be.  They made too much off of WoW to turn their backs on mmos.  They haven't had a ton of reason to risk their cash cow until recently, and their subs dropping...I would think internally they have a number at which they only see upside to releasing another mmo, would of made no sense while WoW was at its peak imo.

  Ginaz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 1678

10/22/13 7:40:06 PM#137
Originally posted by CowboyHat
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by CowboyHat
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Dontneed
so eventually make kids think as if  'esports' is same as real sports.

Not only kids. The US govt agrees that e-sport is same as real sports and e-athletes can be classified as athletes for visa purposes.

And if olympics recognize e-sport .. what more do you need?

I will need a bullet to the head. Just the idea that they might even consider adding esports to the Olympics makes me cringe. There is not even a comparison in the difference in talent between a real athlete and one of these "eathletes." It already makes me sick that the US passed that law.

 

"comparison in difference in talent" .. .i don't suppose you think you hold a candle to those e-athletes? Have you seen the koreans playing SC2 (another e-sport games). They can do hundreds of actions every min. How many can you do?

I doubt many current olympians can beat those e-athletes in their respective games too.

But guess what, you can cringe all you want but you are not the one who is making the decision, are you?

 

Are we going to make playing the piano a sport too?

How about cup stacking?  Those guys are crazy fast but I would never call them athletes, either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_stacking

Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19117

 
OP  10/22/13 7:40:31 PM#138
Originally posted by CowboyHat
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by CowboyHat
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Dontneed
so eventually make kids think as if  'esports' is same as real sports.

Not only kids. The US govt agrees that e-sport is same as real sports and e-athletes can be classified as athletes for visa purposes.

And if olympics recognize e-sport .. what more do you need?

I will need a bullet to the head. Just the idea that they might even consider adding esports to the Olympics makes me cringe. There is not even a comparison in the difference in talent between a real athlete and one of these "eathletes." It already makes me sick that the US passed that law.

 

"comparison in difference in talent" .. .i don't suppose you think you hold a candle to those e-athletes? Have you seen the koreans playing SC2 (another e-sport games). They can do hundreds of actions every min. How many can you do?

I doubt many current olympians can beat those e-athletes in their respective games too.

But guess what, you can cringe all you want but you are not the one who is making the decision, are you?

 

Are we going to make playing the piano a sport too?

Isn't playing chess one already?

  Ginaz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 1678

10/22/13 7:41:39 PM#139
Originally posted by Xthos
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Xthos
 

I am not so sure that they are losing faith, I think they are unsure of what needs to be next.  They originally took the EQ model imo, and looked at ways to make it more casual/quick.  Then, if anything new was coming out, that people were excited about, they adapted it to WoW.  

 

That is losing faith. They are no longer "sure" that MMORPG is needed to be next.

 

 I don't really consider that losing faith...A unemployed person may know they need a job, but be unaware of what it will be.  They made too much off of WoW to turn their backs on mmos.  They haven't had a ton of reason to risk their cash cow until recently, and their subs dropping...I would think internally they have a number at which they only see upside to releasing another mmo, would of made no sense while WoW was at its peak imo.

I always wondered how many people  would be playing WoW if it was f2p...and how many would be playing LoL if it was p2p.

Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19117

 
OP  10/22/13 7:42:55 PM#140
Originally posted by Xthos
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Xthos
 

I am not so sure that they are losing faith, I think they are unsure of what needs to be next.  They originally took the EQ model imo, and looked at ways to make it more casual/quick.  Then, if anything new was coming out, that people were excited about, they adapted it to WoW.  

 

That is losing faith. They are no longer "sure" that MMORPG is needed to be next.

 

 I don't really consider that losing faith...A unemployed person may know they need a job, but be unaware of what it will be.  They made too much off of WoW to turn their backs on mmos.  They haven't had a ton of reason to risk their cash cow until recently, and their subs dropping...I would think internally they have a number at which they only see upside to releasing another mmo, would of made no sense while WoW was at its peak imo.

You have a very funny notion of what losing faith means.

I don't consider a company who is not pushing MMORPG as their #1 priority as having "faith" in it, particularly when they have already done a ton of work on a new one.

 

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