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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Everquest Next: Immersion Server Proposed Ruleset Poll

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80 posts found
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5568

10/21/13 1:50:11 AM#21

My first mmo had a ruleset like that, more hardcore really. It got closed down by NCSoft in the west because it wasn't popular enough with the western crowd.

You'll get a lot of lip service for something like this, but not a lot of wallet service, or even login service. There are several hardcore games out now and while they have their dedicated niche players, they're not popular. Go figure, people really don't liked getting kicked in the junk for playing a video game.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Kremchek

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/13
Posts: 50

10/21/13 1:51:22 AM#22
All but #7. Yep..
  Scalpless

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1270

10/21/13 1:57:35 AM#23
Weird, #7 makes it sound like the normal version of EQN won't have an inventory limit.
  Mawnee

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 182

10/21/13 1:59:05 AM#24
I would play on this server.
  Swedish_Chef

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/13
Posts: 225

Bort bort bort!

10/21/13 2:42:33 AM#25
Originally posted by Bivin

For a proposed separate Immersion server in Everquest Next, a proposed ( still rough draft ) ruleset is posted in the blurb below a poll at:

http://www.wepolls.com/p/20521024/Would-you-create-a-character-on-an-Immersion-Server-in-Everquest-Next-%2C-EQ-Next-%28See-Blurb-below-for-proposed-server-rules.

Please read the rough draft of the proposed ruleset, vote in the poll, and discuss your vote here.

This thread is not for whether or not you think such a ruleset could or should be adopted.

This thread is not about casual gameplay versus Immersion (some call it hardcore ) gameplay, or the pros/cons of each.

This thread is simply about whether or not such a ruleset would attract you to that server, yes or no, and why or why not.

Not everyone will agree here, so we can agree to disagree, respect each other's choices, and grow in clarity and accurate perception.

Debate is welcome, so long as it is respectful.

 

For your convenience ( cough, sorry ) here's a copy of the proposed ruleset (note, #6 is under reconsideration by some)

"We propose an Immersion server. The differences would be as follows:"

In an Immersion server:
1. Travel is firmly curtailed; no flight paths, no flying mounts (unless there are flying monsters as well--or limited to flying-required areas only), long refresh timer on 'gate', low occurrence of portals to promote exploration over convenience.

 
Okay, but as anyone who's played Dragon's Dogma can tell you, constantly tracking back & forth between the same areas gets old very quickly.

2. There is corpse recovery or other harsh death penalty, so that the world feels dangerous again. Not perma-death, not perma-lose your items. Just harsh in terms of time and difficulty to curtail things like using death to skip content and to restore a fear of death.
 
No thank you. I've suffered far too many deaths over the years from technical issues & ISP failures to ever play a game with a harsh death penalty, to say nothing of one requiring corpse runs.

3. There is increased over-all difficulty level so that grouping is encouraged even during short play periods.

 
So even if I only have an hour to play, I have to waste time spamming chat looking for a group? No thanks.

4. Group planning is encouraged because there is no 'summon group' type abilities/ stones/ etc.
 
I see where you're going with this. I kind of agree, except that people will go back to spamming chat channels looking for groups.

5. Players may transfer off the server, but characters may not transfer onto the server from standard servers. The only way onto the server is to create a new character. No power leveling a standard character and then dropping into the dangerous world. Progression will be tougher and it would be unbalancing to allow super-advanced characters from other servers.
 
Agreed.

6. Mounts would have a hitpoint threshold and be vulnerable to attack, thus bringing increased danger levels and a more difficult economy.
 
I would go for a system where, if the mount takes too much damage, you are dismounted & the mount can't be summoned for a reasonable amount of time.

7. Items will have weight, and you'll have a limit! This would promote a more conscious decision of what you carry on you and when you return to your home-- especially with low frequency of hearthing type abilities.
 
No. These games are constantly throwing loot at you, and dealing with weight on top of inventory space would be too much of a hassle.

8. No rest exp.
 
I don't really care about this, lol.

9. No auctioneers or auction houses. the economy is player driven and interaction is required for buying, selling, and bartering with other players.

 
You DO realize that a player driven economy is easier to establish when there's a central trade hub, right? AH is a logical convenience feature, and I wouldn't play a game without one. 

10. Gear is rare but tradeable. No more "no-trade" drops.
 
Agree with this, but what measures would be in place to stop farming by, shall we say, less-than-scrupulous individuals?

11. No instancing.

 
I love the concept of open dungeons, but I'd want instancing for 'boss rooms'. Waiting for a particular boss to spawn only to have it 'tagged' by another group is frustrating beyond belief.

12. All, or most, NPCs are able to be attacked.
 
As long as there are guards and / or other things to contend with, and the NPCs respawn, I have no problem with this.

"Does such a server have interest for you?" - See more at: http://www.wepolls.com/p/20521024/Would-you-create-a-character-on-an-Immersion-Server-in-Everquest-Next-%2C-EQ-Next-%28See-Blurb-below-for-proposed-server-rules.#sthash.Bz4SvEQ9.dpuf
 
Nope. Wouldn't pay a cent to play on a server like this. MMO's have evolved, and have thankfully moved away from most of the archaic designs presented here. However, I would have no problem supporting a server like this for people who are most likely fairly masochistic.

 

 

  solarbear88

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/10
Posts: 73

10/21/13 3:08:23 AM#26
None of these things ever eventuate. No matter the interest.
  quixadhal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/11/05
Posts: 194

10/21/13 3:32:24 AM#27
Originally posted by Bivin

 

In an Immersion server:

1. Travel is firmly curtailed; no flight paths, no flying mounts (unless there are flying monsters as well--or limited to flying-required areas only), long refresh timer on 'gate', low occurrence of portals to promote exploration over convenience.
Good.  I agree, but I'll propose taking it a step further.  No in-game radar-blip minimap.  Maps are fine, but only general maps of the area.  Players should have to learn the layout and recognize landmarks to navigate, thus allowing them to actually become LOST.
 
2. There is corpse recovery or other harsh death penalty, so that the world feels dangerous again. Not perma-death, not perma-lose your items. Just harsh in terms of time and difficulty to curtail things like using death to skip content and to restore a fear of death.
A harsh penalty is fine.  No time sinks, which is what corpse recovery is.  Most people don't have the luxury of sitting on the game for 8 hours at a stretch, and having to waste half an hour getting their corpse back is just not a fun way to play the game.
 
Instead, I'd rather see equipment take damage from wear-and-tear, and take considerably MORE damage on death.  Further, I'd like that equipment to be permanently destroyed (falling to the ground as scraps) if the durability reached 0%.  Old text MUD's used to do this, and it meant you could keep playing after a death, but it got more and more risky if you didn't repair.
 
 
3. There is increased over-all difficulty level so that grouping is encouraged even during short play periods.
Group play is not something that's determined by difficulty.  Group play is determined by each class having known strengths and weaknesses, and having a group lets each member shore up their weaknesses with the strengths of the other group members.
 
If you're playing a fighter, you should be very afraid trying to solo against archers, or againt magic users.  If you're a mage, melee fighters are deadly to you.  Thus, a fighter and mage in a group would make a team that offsets each others weaknesses.  Continue that idea for however many classes you want to have.
 
 
4. Group planning is encouraged because there is no 'summon group' type abilities/ stones/ etc.
Meh, again, this makes the game too annoying for people who can only play for an hour or two at a time.  Nobody wants to spend half their gaming session travelling to meet the rest of the group.
 
Instead, make group formation something that can only be done in town.  Once you join a group, if you die, wander off, get disconnected, whatever... you can be summoned back... but if you can only form a group in town, it will make it more likely you'll stick with your group.
 
5. Players may transfer off the server, but characters may not transfer onto the server from standard servers. The only way onto the server is to create a new character. No power leveling a standard character and then dropping into the dangerous world. Progression will be tougher and it would be unbalancing to allow super-advanced characters from other servers.
Agreed.
 
 

6. Mounts would have a hitpoint threshold and be vulnerable to attack, thus bringing increased danger levels and a more difficult economy.
Agreed.  I'd even suggest that mounts not be a permanent item at all.  As with a party, if you want a mount you have to rent one in town, or if you have a stable and own one, you have to retrieve it from your home.
 
 

7. Items will have weight, and you'll have a limit! This would promote a more conscious decision of what you carry on you and when you return to your home-- especially with low frequency of hearthing type abilities.
Agreed,  but if you have a mount, allow it to carry an inventory as well.
 
 
 

8. No rest exp.
Fine.  I'd prefer to have the equivalent of EQ2's "AA" slider, so I can control the speed of leveling to avoid running off the end of content.
 
 

9. No auctioneers or auction houses. the economy is player driven and interaction is required for buying, selling, and bartering with other players.
Nope.  Totally disagree.  Again, this cuts into playing time.  I want to play the game, not sit in one spot spamming the chat channels to sell stuff.  I certainly don't want to have to read chat spam to find someone selling stuff I want to buy.
 
EVE did this right.  A full market with both buy and sell orders.  However, like EVE, make the markets regional.  If I'm in Antonica and buy something cheap, maybe I can spend the time to ferry it to Kunark and sell it there for profit.
 
10. Gear is rare but tradeable. No more "no-trade" drops.
Agreed.  Again, lke EVE.
 
 

11. No instancing.
I can't agree with this either.  Again, it's a time issue.  Nobody enjoys spending 2 hours working their way down through a dungeon, only to find the boss who spawns every 3 days dead, and two other groups already standing in line, camping.
 
 

12. All, or most, NPCs are able to be attacked.
HAHAHA, yes.  I remember my first days of EQ1, and hitting 'a' instead of 'h'... oops, not again!
 
  mcrippins

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/07
Posts: 964

10/21/13 3:46:25 AM#28
Originally posted by arieste

I have no interest in such a server, or the poll, but offer one piece of feedback:

 

The name "immersion" is completely misleading for what you're talking about.  Most of the points have absolutely nothing to do with what's commonly termed "immersion" in an MMO setting.  "Hardcore" or possible "Old School" would be better names.  Although, "old school" only fits if one is coming from a certain type of server in a certain type of game.  

 

Additionally, given what is known (or not known) about EQN, i think this type of post is better put into "general discussion" forum.  As it stands it doesn't seem to take into consideration ANY EQN-specific mechanics or issues.  It seems to be a list drawn that can be applied to any random game in development and has nothing to do with EQN other than being posted on its board.

 

I went into this read thinking I would end up with the same verdict, but I don't really agree with you at all in your first paragraph. There a few a couple of items on the list that really have nothing to do with immersion and are more hardcore, but for the most part he hits the nail on the head. 

 

For example #3. Making the game 'harder' doesn't really have anything to do with immersion unless the original game itself is overly easy.  Yet, I like the idea. #2 is another one. I don't think having a harsh death penalty is a bad thing at all. I started this genre with UO, and that was one of my favorite aspects. It made fights feel very important in regards to survival.  That being said I would love to see this entire ruleset on a server. Not sure if I would enjoy it (not even sure if i'll like the game), but it seems like my kinda thing. So I chose option B on the poll.

 

Good idea OP.

  sgtalon

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/04
Posts: 109

10/21/13 7:31:26 AM#29

I think too many people don't understand the whole issue with harsh death penalties. 

It makes you really, really, really not want to die. It adds a whole layer to the game that makes it mean a lot more. Pretty much every game out now not only makes death no big deal, they make the game so easy that you never really play the character to the best of your ability because who cares if you die.

I would love if they made a server with Old School EQ rules. I know me and my friends would definitely play there.

 

I think that most people who played EQ pre-Luclin would agree too. There is just something immersive missing from MMO's in the last 5 years or so. I think it comes down to how easy they have made everything. Leveling goes by so fast that you miss most of the content, end up maxing out and then get bored with the game. 

My original character on Vallon Zek was started when Kunark came out. I played for almost 2 years and never made it to max level. The only reason I left was because other cool games came out that i really wanted to spend my money on.

 

I think that a lot of the people that won't want to play this type of server have never had the level of immersion that the OP is talking about in a game, so they just don't understand why you would want to deal with these issues. I can understand that.

Why would you want to have to deal with chasing after a corpse? Why would you want to care about inventory management, why would you want to actually travel all the way to your desired fighting location? It is all a waste of time right?

 

When you know that it is going to take you 15 minutes to go from where you are to the awesome dungeon  with dangers on the path you are really playing the game. The chance that you are going to not only have to fight, but very probably die if you are not paying attention adds immersion to the game. You can't be looking at the TV, or FB while you are playing the game. You have to be there!

That is what the OP means by immersion.

  cura

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 860

10/21/13 7:50:45 AM#30
I would add gear degradation beyound repair if its not in a game.
  flizzer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1055

10/21/13 8:01:19 AM#31
No interest personally, but I have always thought this should be included in every game.  Give  players a chance to play this way   Maybe this would stop the "I want games to be hard"  versus "Just let me play without all these tedious mechanics" threads.  Seems a simple solution to me. Not sure why it hasn't been done before.
  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 1891

10/21/13 8:08:18 AM#32

It all sounds fine and dandy, until the population drops... Then it is not as much fun any more and since it has a special rule-set you can not merge it with other servers.

 

But i´l support you, if nothing else just to be able to ask a few years down the road "How are you liking your extra hard group-focused ghost town."

 

Actually i retract that... It is a waste of development time.

This have been a good conversation

  Mendel

Novice Member

Joined: 7/22/11
Posts: 610

10/21/13 8:58:55 AM#33

This is just another thinly disguised request for a developer to customize a game for a specific niche market.  Just like an RP-only or PvP focused game, the hard-core market is just as much a niche, and ultimately is a very minor segment of the market.  Any company that wants its product to reach a larger market will not be trying to focus on a segment of that market.

And, while I like the term 'Immersion', using a different term to repackage 'old-school' and request another 'EQ1 with better graphics' just proves that someone knows what a thesaurus is.  Any niche markets could use 'Immersion' to describe their own particular subset of MMORPG features.

Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  Metrobius

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/05
Posts: 93

10/21/13 2:24:12 PM#34
This is more of a list of hardcore features than immersion. I know immersion has different meanings to different people but there is only one definition of hardcore and this is it.
  Jimmac

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/10
Posts: 1668

10/21/13 10:43:17 PM#35

Yeah, I want a server like this. I doubt I'll play EQN if it isn't like this.

But is this poll being offered by Sony or a third party? If it isn't Sony then unfortunately I can't imagine Sony will care about a poll like this.

  aspekx

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2151

10/21/13 10:54:51 PM#36
Originally posted by itchmon

that's not a server ruleset, that's a whole different game.

 

you cant expect the devs to up difficulty and completely turn off instancing  if their game is designed around certain parts being instanced.  "up difficulty" might be easy to write but there's a lot more to it than just giving mobs more HP and damage- in fact if this difficulty increase were actually carried out, the big complaint would be "all they did was up the HP and damage  on the enemies".

 

also Don't mistake "immersion" with "difficulty".  they DO sometimes overlap!  but not always.  and immersion is subjective.  For example I'll use myself.  to me unlimited teleports are immersion breakers, BUT flight paths aren't.  to whoever made the original list, flight paths are indeed immersion breakers.  Personally I imagine my character takes a stagecoach or a caravan to get where she or he wants, then resumes his or her adventures.

 

I LIKE things such as tough death penalties in an MMO but is that an immersion thing?  or is it a "good play is rewarded" thing?

 

what immersion means to me is the removal of things that remind me "its a game" and the emphasis on the things that make me invested in my character.

^this.

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1865

10/21/13 11:10:08 PM#37
I voted in the poll and said I would try it .It would start as my primary. I like the work for what you get mentality.Forced grouping was the only item to give me SIGNIFICANT pause.
  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

10/21/13 11:20:16 PM#38

I know that "Immersion" is usually considered an undefined term, since roleplayers have been using it to start message board fights for three decades now...

But that ruleset is really, really confused about its goals.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Morovanator

Novice Member

Joined: 12/08/09
Posts: 25

10/21/13 11:23:10 PM#39
"A" all the way. never look back. It sounds like AC rules with next gen graphics. That would be major sexy.

  donpopuki

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/12
Posts: 594

10/22/13 5:43:00 AM#40
I would play but my friend who tends to like easy mode won't. He never played EQ1 so he wouldn't understand the value of the rule set.

I think some of these will make it into EQN like restricted travel. They already said you need tokens to use the spires. So it's not just a matter of paying a small price like GW2. Plus there will be only one spire per biome.

Also a non-centralized economy seems to be where they are going. There wa talk of setting up merchants near the spires in EQNL
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