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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » mmo RPG have we misunderstod it ??

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104 posts found
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17959

10/19/13 2:33:18 PM#81
Originally posted by Steelhelm

I feel playing a role is specializing in something others won't do. Most players probably are combat oriented and people can have different characters, but i think it would be meaningful to allow extra deep specialization that brings rewards no one else can acquire. this of course takes a lot of development. such a game should definitely need a casual side. Also I would want the game studios to meditate on the word MASSIVE heh...

I would much rather have fun than massive. Many MMOs are not massive anyway.

 

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6352

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

10/19/13 2:49:32 PM#82

End game should have no part in a RPG because it is not part of the definition of role play unless you were truly playing the role of some famous person in the past such as Julius Caesar or Aristotle in which yes they did have an end.However games still not adhere to what role playing is,they still create simple tasks and reward you for them,.that is NOT what role playing is.

If you were roleplaying in a true sense,every action and adventure would be new,not some prescribed code that has you move and follow in one direction of which none is your own role play.

I think the main problem is one,these are predominantly assembly line games to make profit with no true feeling put into the game and two,developers simply don't have the skills to create a true RPG.

The very first start to a RPG should be an eco system both for npc's and creatures/wildlife and harvesting.This should be well designed for long term before anything else happens in the design.Then after that there are certain areas of design that are a given and EVERY developer knows what these are.

Reason why all these devs that know what to do are not doing it is "assembly line for profit gaming" lack of money/time restraints,or they are in a hurry because they have one gimmick they feel will be good enough to carry the game.

IMO if a developer does not have the true passion,money and resources to make a TRIPLE A MMORPG,they should not be diluting the market,it only hurts the genre.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  monochrome19

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/13
Posts: 309

10/19/13 3:14:07 PM#83

Yes... Yes... Let the butthurt flow through you!

 

Look, I don't have a problem with quest crafting this "wonderful," "intricate," story that takes you from zone to zone. But the reality is... they rarely do that. The ONLY time I've enjoyed questing is in FFXIV. Well, I wont say I enjoyed it 100% of the time, but it kept me intrigued at least when I wasn't enjoying it. If each quest had some awesome story instead of kill x amount of monsters I wouldn't care.

 

And the other reason quest are important? You need a way to level. Assuming a game removes all quest from the game how will I progress? You NEED a way to progress, and quest are the easiest solution to that.

 

If you can tell me how to remove quest and still make progression enjoyable I'll be all ears.

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 835

10/19/13 3:28:41 PM#84
Originally posted by monochrome19

Yes... Yes... Let the butthurt flow through you!

 

Look, I don't have a problem with quest crafting this "wonderful," "intricate," story that takes you from zone to zone. But the reality is... they rarely do that. The ONLY time I've enjoyed questing is in FFXIV. Well, I wont say I enjoyed it 100% of the time, but it kept me intrigued at least when I wasn't enjoying it. If each quest had some awesome story instead of kill x amount of monsters I wouldn't care.

 

And the other reason quest are important? You need a way to level. Assuming a game removes all quest from the game how will I progress? You NEED a way to progress, and quest are the easiest solution to that.

 

If you can tell me how to remove quest and still make progression enjoyable I'll be all ears.

Its been explained and obvious ways but I doubt it would be enjoyable if the only way you can enjoy a game is to be run around by task masters.  

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

10/19/13 5:32:49 PM#85
Originally posted by monochrome19

 

And the other reason quest are important? You need a way to level. Assuming a game removes all quest from the game how will I progress? You NEED a way to progress, and quest are the easiest solution to that.

 

If you can tell me how to remove quest and still make progression enjoyable I'll be all ears.

You've been told twice. At this point the problem is that you simply don't want to acknowledge it. 

  alterfenix

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 299

10/19/13 5:53:22 PM#86
Originally posted by Ender4

The key is letting us do our own thing, not coming up with some goofy story based quests. Create a world for us to experience, not a bunch of quests that we do in the same way as everyone else.

Also I find it really funny that you called Diablo an example of a RPG. The diablo series is just awful when it comes to story.

This really. Even WoW is better as RPG despite storyline there is the only part that can be connected with RPG commonly understood by devs (best RPG is still about the story created by it's participants).

Although I agree with op in general - too much about endgame, too much about playing "pro", fun is in fact the least important thing. Shame as I have heard that so many times in past few years and there seems to be quite of a group of ppl that would like to see game that is not as hardcore as Darkfall or EVE (i.e. player looting) yet is not as streamlined and easy as average theme park nowadays. But still no studio wants to pick up this topic for real.

  iridescence

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 943

10/20/13 2:13:43 PM#87
Originally posted by monochrome19
so... what can be done to "improve" quest?

 

I think MMOs should save the term "quest" for things that are really part of the story line. A quest should be something epic. A quest is not killing some boars in a field. If you need to have that, at least call it a "job" or something similar. GW2's hearts are better than most games' quests because of this. Sure, it's just boring grinding but at least the game doesn't bore me with a long thing I don't want to read about why I have to kill the boars or make me run back to the quest giver after. This makes the actual quests that are in the game feel more special.

 

 

  monochrome19

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/13
Posts: 309

10/20/13 2:18:10 PM#88
The key word in that sentence was enjoyable and nothing said so far fits that bill.
  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2490

10/20/13 2:26:02 PM#89


Originally posted by rafalex007
hello.

today i came here wondering, RPG : role playing game.

RPG used to be about story adventure and going through this adventure, RPG like ELDER SROLLS , or diablo or witcher or any RPG out there, they are all out living the world doing anything you can find side quests, main quests, or just wondering around.

But no in today's mmoRPG all we see is end game, everyone wants to know what about endgame, how main raid do i have or how many things is there to do, now while this is important and essential and i don't blame anyone for asking about it because it is important and you can couninue playing without it, but what about arriving to endgame!!!, how can i arrive to the point where i do have raiding or any endgame content?.

quests are the key iits the adenture we go through to arrive to endgame, its living this world we are in helping people randome one but helping the world, but whille questing is some kind of boring i think with improving it, mmos could do something great could rise again.

thanx for reading


MMO should have no end, it should be about adventure and long journey through a fantasy world with difficult choise and fights or exploring solving difficult puzzle to get that treasures.

MMO should never have shops or easy way to end it should be struggle but that should give satisfaction when you have worked so hard to get finally that robe or axe you wanted so much.

This you still can get in solo games, but with mmo's forget it its all about GEEB NOW INSTANT OR ILL QUIT.
Have fun with your today's mmo community i don't envy you:P

AC1-AC2 both Darktide server. Lineage2-Darkfall 1. Many ive tried in between. Stopped playing mmorpgs for now fed up with... Played many solo games mainly rpg's.
Fav series Elder scrolls.

  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2490

10/20/13 2:36:30 PM#90

Some like killing boars untill they DIE of old age some same with fishing at a pond untill they DIE of old age.

Its up to companys to find out which group is largest and they make games accordenly.

So we get WoW and all there boring clones and they evolve in to spoonfed monsters but thats what millions want.

You can discuss whatever you want here on the forums untill you DIE of old age but the truth is millions want it ALL NOW.

So im back to my old school solo gameplay with skyrim modded so its truly hardcore and make progress in month most of you guys prolly do in hour:P

Hardcore:
http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/chap10.htm

AC1-AC2 both Darktide server. Lineage2-Darkfall 1. Many ive tried in between. Stopped playing mmorpgs for now fed up with... Played many solo games mainly rpg's.
Fav series Elder scrolls.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17959

10/21/13 12:13:05 AM#91
Originally posted by Classicstar

MMO should have no end,

Says you.

I finished their content and moved on all the time.

 

  ThomasN7

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6602

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

10/21/13 12:16:07 AM#92
We haven't but in my opinion developers are the ones who have misunderstood what MMOs are supposed to be.
  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

10/21/13 12:50:00 AM#93
Originally posted by Classicstar

MMO should have no end, it should be about adventure and long journey through a fantasy world with difficult choise and fights or exploring solving difficult puzzle to get that treasures.

MMO should never have shops or easy way to end it should be struggle but that should give satisfaction when you have worked so hard to get finally that robe or axe you wanted so much.

That cosmetic robe or axe, correct?

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2230

10/21/13 12:55:12 AM#94
Originally posted by monochrome19
so... what can be done to "improve" quest?

 Get rid of the ridiculous quest GPS system.

 Take away the glowing/sparkly items so that questing isn't so easy mode.

 Take a page from what questing really is rather than kill 10 rats. Runescapes quests while very generic are very lengthy taking anywhere from 10 minutes to several hours to complete doing many things and usually ending on killing a monster in which most time will often kill you.

 

 The question isn't what we can do to improve the genre it's what we can do to get it off of the derailed course it's already on. Because these games are most certainly not RPGs.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  jesad

Elite Member

Joined: 9/30/06
Posts: 652

Think of something witty and pretend that I typed it in this spot :)

10/21/13 1:38:31 AM#95
Originally posted by rafalex007

hello.

today i came here wondering, RPG : role playing game.

RPG used to be about story adventure and going through this adventure, RPG like ELDER SROLLS , or diablo or witcher or any RPG out there, they are all out living the world doing anything you can find side quests, main quests, or just wondering around.

But no in today's mmoRPG all we see is end game, everyone wants to know what about endgame, how main raid do i have or how many things is there to do, now while this is important and essential and i don't blame anyone for asking about it because it is important and you can couninue playing without it, but what about arriving to endgame!!!, how can i arrive to the point where i do have raiding or any endgame content?.

quests are the key iits the adenture we go through to arrive to endgame, its living this world we are in helping people randome one but helping the world, but whille questing is some kind of boring i think with improving it, mmos could do something great could rise again.

thanx for reading

Of course I am responding before reading the entire string so pardon me if I am just repeating what someone else might have said, but the endgame problem in MMORPG's is not really the fault of the MMORPG as much as it is the fault of the MMORPG player.  From the earliest titles I can remember the people who came into the game and decided that the endgame content was more important than the entire rest of the game.  From the moment that started, right up until now, the genre was a bust to just about anyone who wanted anything more out of it than just powerlevelling and raiding.

Developers have tried a lot of ways to make the games wider, but if you spend all of this money and develop all of this content, just to have some jerk college kid come in and convince everyone they meet that it is all worthless, you can't really blame the money man for saying "Screw all that, lets just give them what they want."

So really, there is no real way to fix this problem in a genre that is based on level progression.  Because it is the wet dream of every kid to be able to streamline or jump over completely the most important steps towards actually becoming something great, and to just be able to become that something great.  And that is even if the great thing that they are going to become is really just another orc with the same armor, weapons, and skills as all the other orcs.

What are ya gonna do ya know?

  rafalex007

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 174

 
OP  10/21/13 1:59:47 AM#96

some people here have misunderstood what i wrote, EndGame should be there that is for sure, but the way to get to EndGame that's what was misunderstood, that's the adventure that should be improve, questing crafting etc ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

  ThomasN7

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6602

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

10/21/13 9:03:16 AM#97
Originally posted by rafalex007

some people here have misunderstood what i wrote, EndGame should be there that is for sure, but the way to get to EndGame that's what was misunderstood, that's the adventure that should be improve, questing crafting etc ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

I don't think mmos need an endgame whatsoever. Look at FFXI, it was 100% about the journey to the end with very little endgame content. It was one of the most successful mmos. Endgame is overrated.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17959

10/21/13 9:43:13 AM#98
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

 The question isn't what we can do to improve the genre it's what we can do to get it off of the derailed course it's already on. Because these games are most certainly not RPGs.

Nah .. the question is not how to change course .. but how to find what is fun.

So what if these games are not RPGs. Borderland is not a pure RPG, but it is fun. I would much rather have a fun game, than something that fit some random dude's definition of RPGs.

 

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 835

10/21/13 11:56:51 AM#99
A barrage of generic easy menial task that are rehashed from game to game is not fun to me. I rather grind on difficult mobs and I hate doinf that.
  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

10/21/13 12:06:43 PM#100
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Classicstar

MMO should have no end,

Says you.

One way to achieve that "no end" involves embracing the second half "RPG" of the acronym.

But it's too expensive, and not for everyone, so we get throw-away video cartridges (more marketable) instead.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

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