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Darkfall: Unholy Wars

Darkfall: Unholy Wars 

General Discussion  » Clause live streaming honest discussion about future of Darkfall.

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88 posts found
  DarthRaiden

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/20/05
Posts: 4538

i make art,
till someone dies.

Forum Terrorist

10/16/13 10:31:43 AM#61
Originally posted by Lustmord
Originally posted by Deerhunter71
Originally posted by MindTrigger

Had they added more sandbox type features instead of being pure PvP/Conquest, I would have stuck around and paid a sub.  The game has promise as something more than it currently is.  The model failed before, and it's failing now.  It simply does not have broad enough appeal in its design to hold many subscribers.  

This if there was more MMO "fluff" and other things to do this would be huge I think.  But they still only have basically an open MMO world for arena-pvp.  They must put in a lot of other fluff or there is no hope of broader appeal.

People often ask for more "fluff"..

They have city building, crafting, ship building, pirating, treasure hunting, dungeons, and the markets...

What more "fluff" can you suggest? Be specific please.

 

I can identify Tasos mindset right here and the zero understanding of MMORPG concepts.

Tasos once gave an update "here is the sandbox for you :  funhulks ! "

Along these lines such a reply from above poster.

Yes crafting is in ....but crafted items have no attributes thous make them not intrestingfor crafter types of players.

Yes city building is in ..but pre placed spots and random rare drop mechanic from chests  make them not intresting for house owner type of players.

Yes ship building is in..but blunt crafting mechanics makes em unintresting for shipbuilders type of players.

Yes some sort of pirating is in i guess .. but not being able to loot merchant ships makes em unintresting for pirate type of players along with the inability to establish a remote hideout  somewhere on a small island. 

Yes markets are in..but them being global make em unintresting for people trying to establish business somewhere.

 

DF has lots of fail features the only thing you supposed to do is meaningless PvP.

 


 

 

-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  Snoepie

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/18/07
Posts: 490

10/16/13 4:37:29 PM#62

to make a long list short..

 

Darkfall unholy wars failed hard.. harder then 1.0 did that's for sure.

 

Not only they drove away most of the 1.0 darkfallers.. but they presented a game which dont appeal to the carebear player aswell..with poorly implented thought features and no content @ all

 

It wont be long till the company goes bankruppt.. Claus cant do anything prolly because of only 4 months workschedule besides that after he made 1.0 he will prolly hate uw.

 

Hopefully 1.0 will be picked up by either a company or some volenteers that want to work a steady core game

  goboygo

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/13
Posts: 307

10/16/13 8:24:26 PM#63

I always said AV built this game with the wrong crowd in mind.  The original DF would of been a smashing success (for an indie) as a non loot game.  With PvP focused around sieges and some lawless areas.  With the majority of the game dedicated to PVE, Exploring and character development.   Character development was almost endless in the original game.

 

They built Elder Scrolls online then opened it up to sociopaths.  The fact that they cant see this is their biggest mistake.  And UW proves it.  Same out come as DF.

A game that could of had a 100k subs with optional PvP turned out to be a game with a couple of thousand Hard Core Pvpers.

 

  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2044

10/16/13 9:07:50 PM#64


Originally posted by goboygo
I always said AV built this game with the wrong crowd in mind.  The original DF would of been a smashing success (for an indie) as a non loot game.  With PvP focused around sieges and some lawless areas.  With the majority of the game dedicated to PVE, Exploring and character development.   Character development was almost endless in the original game.

 

They built Elder Scrolls online then opened it up to sociopaths.  The fact that they cant see this is their biggest mistake.  And UW proves it.  Same out come as DF.

A game that could of had a 100k subs with optional PvP turned out to be a game with a couple of thousand Hard Core Pvpers.

 


Nah it would have been a complete failure given how the PvE actually was. The concept behind the game was fine, the execution was just poor and then they catered too much to the carebear crowd with UW. They needed to be decisive and understand that just because it is a PvP game doesn't mean it doesn't need good PvE too. This game more than any screamed should have free to play too. If you are targeting a small niche market you can't charge a monthly sub, especially with no trial offer.

  eHug

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/30/12
Posts: 201

10/18/13 8:07:43 AM#65
Originally posted by Ender4


Originally posted by goboygo
I always said AV built this game with the wrong crowd in mind.  The original DF would of been a smashing success (for an indie) as a non loot game.  With PvP focused around sieges and some lawless areas.  With the majority of the game dedicated to PVE, Exploring and character development.   Character development was almost endless in the original game.

They built Elder Scrolls online then opened it up to sociopaths.  The fact that they cant see this is their biggest mistake.  And UW proves it.  Same out come as DF.

A game that could of had a 100k subs with optional PvP turned out to be a game with a couple of thousand Hard Core Pvpers.


Nah it would have been a complete failure given how the PvE actually was. The concept behind the game was fine, the execution was just poor and then they catered too much to the carebear crowd with UW. They needed to be decisive and understand that just because it is a PvP game doesn't mean it doesn't need good PvE too. This game more than any screamed should have free to play too. If you are targeting a small niche market you can't charge a monthly sub, especially with no trial offer.

Actually I think if the game offered different types of server it would attract a lot more people. I am playing DF:UW for some months now and it doesn't bore me so far. But every single guy that I played games like Lineage 2 with denies to even try the game because of full loot and the far too time intensive travelling. And they like the pvp system, sieges etc. It's just that they know that these 2 things make the game kind of unplayable for players that can't afford to play multiple hours each day.

So if they added servers with a decent network of ports and no looting (or 1-3 items randomly dropping?), it most likely would be full with players that got more of a life then us and don't have the time for DF:UW's constant slow downs. Of course there would need to be other death penalities like loosing Prowess or whatever. PVP, politics, drama - there would be plenty of people enjoying these if the game was made accessible for pvp fans with less time then us.

 

  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3297

10/19/13 4:56:03 AM#66
Tell your friends that full loot isn't that big of a deal because you do t grind for epics.


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  Hiderplo

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/09
Posts: 7

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!

10/19/13 7:01:46 PM#67
...

Legend Gaming TeamSpeak Administrator || Talion Inner Sanctum Representative || Blackthorne Captain

  Popple

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/11
Posts: 156

10/19/13 7:09:46 PM#68
Seem like to me a lot of you folks are not playing anymore...Someone needs to tell Tasos to close the Jaws of Oblivion before his game becomes Vaporware forever... (pun intended)

I retired retroactively..Haha

  Theocritus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3605

10/19/13 7:15:50 PM#69
Originally posted by MrBoots
Originally posted by xpiher
The number of hacks are being blown out of proportion in this thread. I played with dolphin rider in dfo as well as most of the coe/rgf crew and most of the other top pvpers. There were only a few people who cheated in this circle and most where ostracized. White chapel for instance. Mr bucket. Johna hacked on alt account to make money to fuel grinding.

The two biggest names that get accused of hacking are aim bot and dolphin aim bot gets accused of hacking because most people do not understand how the game works and he does. What he does is use the strafe mechanic to force the direction of his arrows at distance and ignores wobble when at mid-short range because of the way hit boxes work. The only video THAT May show him hacking in dfo was one in a village where the only way to run was in a single direction.

I can't comment on dolphin rider as I've only ran into him 3x in uw. But in dfo he was accused of it in dfo during water combat. In water combat constantly strafing and going up and down can throw off a lesser skilled persons aim especially at range and in group fights I don't think I've seen a better person on knowing how and when to pull back, using friendlies to meat shield and sustain pressure.

What would you have done if Dolphin Rider had told you about his cheat program? Would you do the right thing? Your posts make it seem like you would. Do you think it's possible that they wouldn't trust you with that knowledge? I learned this lesson the hard way in another game.

I joined a clan that was doing really well on my server. They were popular because they were the top pvpers on the server. I had fun playing with those guys, and enjoyed winning. Whenever someone cried hacks I would get on the forums and call them a liar. I thought they were just jealous of our accomplishments and I blindly supported my clan mates.

One day I logged in to find my character in a virtual jail. There were 4 walls and no exit. After paging a GM he pops in and starts questioning me. He asked me questions about any 3rd party applications, and if I knew of any being used by my clan members. I had no idea what he was talking about. After about 30 minutes of questions he told me that my account was being suspended until it could be reviewed.

Almost two weeks later I got a response from support saying that my account was clean and that I was being unsuspended. It also said that my clan had been disbanded because most of the members including the leader were permanently banned. They refunded my lost time at least. Before the bust my clan had just under 100 members. Only about 12 of us remained. Most of the guys that got unbanned were newer members. I never saw it coming.

 Everyone knew there was massive cheating in DF1.......You cant expect anything less in this one.....Most players would rather risk being banned and win than playing safe and losing.....Its just the PVP mindset that they will win at all costs.

  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3297

10/19/13 11:40:35 PM#70
Originally posted by Theocritus
Originally posted by MrBoots
Originally posted by xpiher
The number of hacks are being blown out of proportion in this thread. I played with dolphin rider in dfo as well as most of the coe/rgf crew and most of the other top pvpers. There were only a few people who cheated in this circle and most where ostracized. White chapel for instance. Mr bucket. Johna hacked on alt account to make money to fuel grinding.

The two biggest names that get accused of hacking are aim bot and dolphin aim bot gets accused of hacking because most people do not understand how the game works and he does. What he does is use the strafe mechanic to force the direction of his arrows at distance and ignores wobble when at mid-short range because of the way hit boxes work. The only video THAT May show him hacking in dfo was one in a village where the only way to run was in a single direction.

I can't comment on dolphin rider as I've only ran into him 3x in uw. But in dfo he was accused of it in dfo during water combat. In water combat constantly strafing and going up and down can throw off a lesser skilled persons aim especially at range and in group fights I don't think I've seen a better person on knowing how and when to pull back, using friendlies to meat shield and sustain pressure.

What would you have done if Dolphin Rider had told you about his cheat program? Would you do the right thing? Your posts make it seem like you would. Do you think it's possible that they wouldn't trust you with that knowledge? I learned this lesson the hard way in another game.

I joined a clan that was doing really well on my server. They were popular because they were the top pvpers on the server. I had fun playing with those guys, and enjoyed winning. Whenever someone cried hacks I would get on the forums and call them a liar. I thought they were just jealous of our accomplishments and I blindly supported my clan mates.

One day I logged in to find my character in a virtual jail. There were 4 walls and no exit. After paging a GM he pops in and starts questioning me. He asked me questions about any 3rd party applications, and if I knew of any being used by my clan members. I had no idea what he was talking about. After about 30 minutes of questions he told me that my account was being suspended until it could be reviewed.

Almost two weeks later I got a response from support saying that my account was clean and that I was being unsuspended. It also said that my clan had been disbanded because most of the members including the leader were permanently banned. They refunded my lost time at least. Before the bust my clan had just under 100 members. Only about 12 of us remained. Most of the guys that got unbanned were newer members. I never saw it coming.

 Everyone knew there was massive cheating in DF1.......You cant expect anything less in this one.....Most players would rather risk being banned and win than playing safe and losing.....Its just the PVP mindset that they will win at all costs.

 

Massive cheating existed in the fire couple month of DFO EU1 launch and BARELY at all after since AV created anti-cheat software for the permire hacking tool. UW barely has any cheating as well and AV can detect it. THe problem with the current cheat softwear is that it hooks into people's graphic cards and exploits DX technology, completely bypassing the client thus making it harder to stop. Another issue is that most people scream "HAX!" when they are simp[ly just bad at the game. Everyone knows I suck at PvP, but when I do get the occisional kill people say I hacked because their ego is just to fragile to handle losing to me. I've been accused of radar hacking because I heard a transfer over a mountain and snuk up on the guy.


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  Realbigdeal

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/08
Posts: 1646

10/20/13 12:27:38 AM#71

You guys think claus is gonna fix anything? It's over. Now that DF UW is a class based game, they have to waste their time to balance everything and with the recent duelist school, it's worse then ever. 

They claim that DF is a niche game made for niche players? Bullshit. DF is nothing like a niche game and the fact that it has full loot is nothing compared to everything else.

List of things that don't come from mmo's who claim to be niche: class, restricted schools, restricted armor sets over customization - caps - penalty based on armor weight/encumbrance.  Prowess -silimar to leveling up, 6 safe zones in 6 different part of the world for everyone and red players. Slow game - not as fast as quake anymore and slower than call of duty. meaningless war and incomplete game(a lot less completed than darkfall 1)

C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3297

10/20/13 7:18:43 AM#72
Real, the fact that the game has restriction at all means that 1v1 balance would never be achieved because restrictions mean strengths and weaknesses. Safe zones are also a necessary evil and has been proven by eu1 launch, eve, and mo (eve and mo have defacto safe zones)


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  Realbigdeal

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/08
Posts: 1646

10/20/13 11:00:27 AM#73
Originally posted by xpiher
Real, the fact that the game has restriction at all means that 1v1 balance would never be achieved because restrictions mean strengths and weaknesses. Safe zones are also a necessary evil and has been proven by eu1 launch, eve, and mo (eve and mo have defacto safe zones)

Yeah, but with 10 skills almost like in a moba game per class and school you chose, the balance is way too off and there was no common sense or enough community feedback applied to fix some of these things.For example, skirmishers can dash, mages can't. in a 1v1 scenario: If mage is about to win, skirmisher retreat succesfully. IF the opposite happen, the mage has to spawn a mount and the skirmisher will shut it down with leap and dash and then he will proceed to finish him off.

For a sandbox game where you can lose everything when you die, this imbalanced part is just not good. In DFO, mages were always better then destroyers, but as a destroyer, it was always possible to go as fast as a mage while bunny hopping. Not that i liked bunny hops even if i was very good at it, but now, only skirmishers can bunny hop so the balance is even worse then it should be after 8 months. Plus they only added bluetails runner to counter how easy to was to reach a mount on foot. It did not only worked, it also was a perfect gold sink. 

 

In a moba, they say that if you play public, you must chose a role who can escape to win often, but atleast, there's constantly goals to achieve in a moba like destroying towers, killing the boss, and finishing the game. If DF was a real moba, it would have been as balanced as smite, but it's not smite, it's a sandbox so in term of balance, it's not a matter of how fast someone can push, buying items, how quick he can kill with his nukes... it's mostly about executing someone in a sandbox and so far, the best executer is a skirmisher so he gets to do everything like soloing when the player wants to play early in the morning when none of his friends are online. That's why this ROCK/Paper/scissors is bad for darkfall coz only paper can run away from scissors to move back in the safe zone or to reset the fight.

 

And defacto safezone is the way to go. The only reason i don't play darkfall today coz everyone and those not supposed to be there are in it. I just hope the system is not complete and since DF is still a beta, i keep on checking to see if it's getting better, but i rather not support it. I can't support a game that took away what i was supporting along the way and that was darkfall 1.

 

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  Realbigdeal

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/08
Posts: 1646

10/20/13 11:04:42 AM#74

Double post, when you balance a game, the best thing to do is the remove as much frustration as possible.

this: It's from a hon(heroes of newerth) developer. 

Insight from Pandaroohoo on the balance changes of Patch 3.2.5

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?517654-Insight-from-Pandaroohoo-on-the-balance-changes-of-Patch-3-2-5

Hail friends, I’m Pandaroohoo, a gameplay designer here at S2 Games.

I’m going to shed some light on the focus of this patch to give you an idea of our design principles and the direction our game is headed in. The focus of this patch is the never-ending goal of hero diversity from all aspects that encompass a hero, including its strengths, weaknesses, roles, play styles, niches and even item choices.

There are a large number of changes aimed at this direction. The first is against unskilled burst damage and also a reconsideration of the counter-play and frustration that some of our popular heroes may be causing. We also have some substantial buffs targeted at emphasizing the unique concept and mechanics of some heroes. We want to be sure that when you’re picking a hero, there is a defining reason for that pick, not just instant kill power.

Parasite is an example of lowering burst. Parasite has some unique mechanics: jumping inside creeps, reducing enemy damage and stealing buffs. All of these mechanics become second rate once Parasite obtains a Codex. Why worry about utility when you can always kill whoever you want by just clicking on them. By toning down Parasite’s damage specifically with Codex, we can begin looking into putting more emphasis on his other mechanics, keeping him still as a burst hero, but reinforcing the reasons you pick him up over others.

Night Hound is our example of alleviating frustration. We made a substantial change to his pounce skill, no longer always appearing behind the target. This puts a large emphasis on the decision for the enemy to play against Night Hound, allowing them to effectively turn and fight avoiding backstab entirely. By adding a counter play aspect, it gives us avenues to even increase the effectiveness of backstab or pounce later on but still reserving the concept and counter play.

An old icon and a good footprint in the game, Maliken has some interesting mechanics about him that have fallen behind in strength. With our reinforced focus towards his passive Hellbourne Zeal, Maliken is much stronger when he is low on hit points, putting more emphasis on the punishment for enemies not finishing him off while allowing the Maliken to experience more power unique to his concept.

I could go on for days about the values and reasonings for our changes – in the end, this patch is given to you guys with the hopes of the never-ending improvement and longevity of our game. We will be monitoring these changes very closely and look forward to any feedback you may have.


Thanks friends!

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  Popple

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/11
Posts: 156

10/20/13 11:05:47 AM#75
Do i smell DF falling to the free to play market? Or are they going to shut it down for good in the near future?

I retired retroactively..Haha

  Deerhunter71

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/25/05
Posts: 546

10/20/13 11:10:24 AM#76
Originally posted by Realbigdeal

You guys think claus is gonna fix anything? It's over. Now that DF UW is a class based game, they have to waste their time to balance everything and with the recent duelist school, it's worse then ever. 

 

This - he is back on a 4 month contract and sorry there is way too much broken that can be fixed in 4 months.  They should either sell the game license or shut it down since Claus already stated they cannot pay the bills.

  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3297

10/21/13 12:17:07 AM#77
Real, you obviously haven't played uw because safezones haven't been a problem since av removed essences from them


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  Galadourn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 1050

10/21/13 2:43:53 PM#78

classes was probably not the best design decision, they should have gone with armor restrictions and specializations. Now they will never manage to balance everything.

They had a nice system in DF1 for character development, all it needed was some tweaks (and a skill cap) and it would have been perfect. 

http://kck.st/Xo38HT

  Realbigdeal

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/08
Posts: 1646

10/21/13 4:49:54 PM#79
Originally posted by xpiher
Real, you obviously haven't played uw because safezones haven't been a problem since av removed essences from them

I left after 1 or 2 month. 

And i know that, but my question is why would you still want to own more than one city? You just need a city to craft with a discount. The safe zones are the reason you don't need to own more than one holding since you can still go anywhere and be safe the whole time. I know that you can only capture a Village Control Point if you own a city/hamlet in the area, but they're not worth that much. It was so much easy to get multiple treasure maps while fishing that gold ended up not being a problem anymore plus the fact that you can buy arrows and other sort of ammos cheap from npc's. I bet the zone system fixed that, but it does not prevent anyone from crafting the cheapest boat to go fishing.

The conquest of DF1 mattered even more than that. You really did need more than one city/hamlet ; for one, giving a home to murderers who were tired of living with other murderers(we had chaos cities). While i did not agree with the portal chambers only accessible to the owner of multiple holdings, the spawns were the reason why you wanted atleast one city per region. Resources were split between each different type of mobs and the hot spots were always relevant. In DF UW, hot spots become irrelevant when you're done with your feats. After that, you only go there to grief new players. In UW, if you want leather, you just have to grind in the new dungeon as an example. 

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  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3297

10/21/13 5:22:29 PM#80
Territory control wasl always lacking I am dfo. The only reason to own a more than a one city in dfo was mines and fast travel which was dumb in the first place. I have hopes the mvp forums will produce results.


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

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