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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » I desire a beautiful, intricate world that naturally encourages in me a desire to socialize.

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163 posts found
  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5327

10/15/13 9:30:48 PM#61

On the subject of socialization I would like to point out that Second Life is likely the most social game out there and it doesn't have any 'game' content at all.

 

I think people who want to be social and who are socially adjusted will be social pretty much regardless of the platform. (although I am not sure people in second life are socially adjusted but that is a different subject)

Correlation does not imply causation

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20657

10/16/13 12:27:38 PM#62
Originally posted by Viper482
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Kyarra

Star Wars Galaxies was the best game for socializing. You had to rely on others for buffs, getting your weapons sliced etc. You also had 10 minute shuttle waits which led to a lot of talking and complaining about the shuttle waits lol. DAoC was awesome also because  you had to group up and I met so many people in that game. 

I never liked to role play, but as others have said LOTRO was great for that, also old school EQ2 was great for role playing and grouping up to level.

Today's games are just solo quest to level and I don't think I have really met anyone like I did in the old school games :(

10 min shuttle waits ... really? No wonder the game is closed down. If i want to wait for a shuttle, i will go to the airport.

And yes i totally agree that "today's game are just solo quest to level". Just the way i like it. I don't have to depend on others for my fun.

 

Let's see if I can say this in a way where I will not be deleted for a violation for flaming...

Here goes....hello kitty style.

Sir, while I respect your opinion I must respectfully point out my displeasure with it. It is my opinion that the attitude you display in this post, while it is your right and think you are a great person no matter our differences, hurts what MMO gaming is all about. 

Soft enough?

Yeh .. very much so.

"hurts what MMO gaming is all about" .. you mean "hurt what I THINK MMO gaming is all about"?

You see, to me, MMOs are just entertainment products, and i use them as i see fit. Nothing more and nothing less. I don't really care about things like "good of MMO gaming according to some random dude on the internet", nor "sustainability of this or that".

 

  Vunak23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 660

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

10/16/13 1:11:57 PM#63
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Arclan

 


Originally posted by Wizardry
Well OP this is not life so yes a game does need to force social gaming,otherwise it has been PROVEN that players will not socialize if they can solo...

 

This.

For a conversation to take place, two people must feel the desire to stop what they are doing and converse. If there is technically no need to converse, the odds of finding two strangers willing to do so are quite low. And every time you get burned by initiating an unreciprocated dialogue, you lower those odds even more

That's why forced grouping as it was in some "old school" MMOs was never encouraging socialization. People use to think they are some kind of "brothers" because they killed some dragon and stole his virtual trinkets together, but at the end, it means nothing.

Real socialization, forging friendships, is done outside of the forced grouping part of MMOs.

And "it has been PROVEN that players will not socialize of they can solo" is a huge pile of smelly crap. Nothing has been proven except that some people are unable to make contact with other players if they aren't forced to by game mechanics. If others can do that just fine, then the problem lies in those players unable to do it, and not in the game design.

Real Socialization.... That is such a strange term to use. There is no such thing as fake socialization that's just asinine. Either your are talking with someone or not. 

Whether you are forced to do it or not, you are still socializing. Forced grouping is obviously going to create more instances where socialization happens because its being pushed onto you and you literally have to do it.

Saying friendships aren't forged inside of a forced group or that comradery doesn't happen is also a huge pile of smelly crap. If you want to use the, "it means nothing argument" then anything you do means nothing. Based on personal experiences most of my friendships I made in MMO's were based around a pug group I needed (forced grouping) and ended up enjoying the time I spent with that particular group of individuals. 

So saying you don't enjoy the random or forced grouping mechanics seems to be a problem with the players unable to accept that mechanic as something that should be a staple of the MMO genre. It has always bewildered me why someone would want to play a multiplayer game solo. That's like going into a Co-Op game with a friend and doing separate things the entire game. Or firing up CoD multiplayer only to join an empty server and filling it with Bots.  

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

10/16/13 1:15:04 PM#64
Originally posted by Vunak23

So saying you don't enjoy the random or forced grouping mechanics seems to be a problem with the players unable to accept that mechanic as something that should be a staple of the MMO genre.

Or perhaps different people have different personalities and are motivated and demotivated by different things?

  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2098

10/16/13 1:18:17 PM#65


Real Socialization.... That is such a strange term to use. There is no such thing as fake socialization that's just asinine. Either your are talking with someone or not

I would disagree with this part of your post though I agree with the rest. GW2 really promotes fake socialization. You are just sort of working together and you are grouped yet not really having any sort of meaningful discourse with each other. They have gone out of their way to make that game so you never need to socialize with anyone outside of WvWvW and even then you can just follow the zerg. They have done all the wrong things to promote a social game and they did it all under the idea of increasing socialization and cooperation.

  Vunak23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 660

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

10/16/13 1:20:23 PM#66


Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by Vunak23 So saying you don't enjoy the random or forced grouping mechanics seems to be a problem with the players unable to accept that mechanic as something that should be a staple of the MMO genre.
Or perhaps different people have different personalities and are motivated and demotivated by different things?
I understand that perfectly. But apparently my taking a stab at the person I was quoting flew way over your head. I will try to make that more apparent next time. 


Originally posted by Ender4  

Real Socialization.... That is such a strange term to use. There is no such thing as fake socialization that's just asinine. Either your are talking with someone or not
  I would disagree with this part of your post though I agree with the rest. GW2 really promotes fake socialization. You are just sort of working together and you are grouped yet not really having any sort of meaningful discourse with each other. They have gone out of their way to make that game so you never need to socialize with anyone outside of WvWvW and even then you can just follow the zerg. They have done all the wrong things to promote a social game and they did it all under the idea of increasing socialization and cooperation.
 

Ahh. I suppose I could see that. My take on his fake socialization - real socialization was actually taking communication into consideration. Not just running around in a mass or being around other players with the same goal.

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2098

10/16/13 1:28:25 PM#67


Ahh. I suppose I could see that. My take on his fake socialization - real socialization was actually taking communication into consideration. Not just running around in a mass or being around other players with the same goal.

I'll give you an example. The other day I ran into a dead guy in GW2, I revived him, he said thanks. He had been killed by a champion spider and he attacked it again. I joined in and we managed to kill it. He said that was cool and thanks and I ran off and did my own thing.

This was a great chance at socializing in some way. However the game is built such that I didn't have to group with him, I didn't have to talk to him during the fight since our buffs automatically hit each other etc, we didn't have to talk about who could use the loot since we both just got stuff. There wasn't really any reason for us to stick together because grouping isn't rewarded in any way and we were likely working on different parts of the game since GW2 is at heart a quest hub based game even though they hide it better.

The game itself got us to talk to each other a little bit but it was all a pretty fake experience. The game doesn't promote us having any real socialization, in fact it actively dissuades it by making us just never need each other and splitting us up by what quest hubs we are working on.

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

10/16/13 1:30:53 PM#68
Originally posted by Vunak23

 


Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by Vunak23 So saying you don't enjoy the random or forced grouping mechanics seems to be a problem with the players unable to accept that mechanic as something that should be a staple of the MMO genre.
Or perhaps different people have different personalities and are motivated and demotivated by different things?
I understand that perfectly. But apparently my taking a stab at the person I was quoting flew way over your head. I will try to make that more apparent next time.

I'm pretty sure you don't understand because your very next sentence was bewilderment over why people would play an MMO solo.  I don't believe you would say that if you really understood what it meant for people to have different personalities and different interactions with their environments.

  Vunak23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 660

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

10/16/13 1:37:37 PM#69
Originally posted by Ender4

 


Ahh. I suppose I could see that. My take on his fake socialization - real socialization was actually taking communication into consideration. Not just running around in a mass or being around other players with the same goal.

 

I'll give you an example. The other day I ran into a dead guy in GW2, I revived him, he said thanks. He had been killed by a champion spider and he attacked it again. I joined in and we managed to kill it. He said that was cool and thanks and I ran off and did my own thing.

This was a great chance at socializing in some way. However the game is built such that I didn't have to group with him, I didn't have to talk to him during the fight since our buffs automatically hit each other etc, we didn't have to talk about who could use the loot since we both just got stuff. There wasn't really any reason for us to stick together because grouping isn't rewarded in any way and we were likely working on different parts of the game since GW2 is at heart a quest hub based game even though they hide it better.

The game itself got us to talk to each other a little bit but it was all a pretty fake experience. The game doesn't promote us having any real socialization, in fact it actively dissuades it by making us just never need each other and splitting us up by what quest hubs we are working on.

 

Yea, I can see that. That is one of the main reasons I never bought or played GW2 outside of the beta. It gives the illusion that socialization is there with the playerbase, but it is never truly there because of exactly what you said. It isn't needed. There is no need to actively cooperate with other players since it is all done in the background. I saw that pretty early on and abandoned ship, which was quite disappointing because I was a huge fan of GW1 and had been waiting for GW2 from way back in the day when it was first announced to us that they were working on it.

It was just the way he used the term in conjunction with Forced Grouping and calling that fake socialization.  

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  Beatnik59

Elite Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2262

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

10/16/13 1:38:52 PM#70

What I find strange is how critical the combat/achiever element can be against things that really don't impact their game at all.  This isn't like FFA PvP, or raiding.  This is one thing games can do to make them more accommodating to more people, without pissing off anyone else in the process.

Consuetudo's desire for a "social environment" doesn't take away anything from quests, PvP, ladder rankings, loot drops, or any of that.  All he's asking for--all any RPer is asking for--are basic things like an optional /walk feature, some nice environments to RP in, places to sit and a /sit command, dancing animations, chat bubbles and player designed instances (like houses).

Seeing as how he's not alone in desiring such things, and the games have (until recently) gave him such things, why can't he have such things?  What sort of "special interest" demographic is negatively impacted, when we create the "social" things?  In other words, how does giving people a "social environment" take away anything from anyone?

It doesn't.  So why the big outcry against it?

__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  LizardEgypt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/09
Posts: 359

Hmm ?

10/16/13 1:39:50 PM#71
Originally posted by Consuetudo

Sociality is what is missing to me in MMORPGs. It is not that I want a game to force me to be social, but I want a game that provides an environment that gives me the intrinsic desire to want to be social within them. I should be so taken away by the feeling being in a certain town or village provides me with that, in this state of awe, I would want to wander the streets as one of its citizens, and see groups of players doing things in that city that are completely within the role-playing the city encourages. And yet this role-playing should not be a mindset forcefully adopted by the players, but it should be suggested, once again, by the game environment itself, and the player would naturally desire to role-play, in such a way that they perhaps won't even be aware of what they are doing. 

And I have encountered this in games. The Blood Elf city in WoW evoked this, as did that first entrance into Stormwind, or Ironforge. 

Though all of this boils down to the constant argument I hear from here: we are wanting worlds, not just games. 

So it's true then: add my vote to the pot. I want a social world that is full of beauty and intricasy. Combat isn't even necessary to me.

Directly replying to your Title. Can I recommend the mall, park, library, or public forum of a university?

'Earth' is a beautiful place and, if your desire is to socialize, I recommend trying to satisfy that desire by starting there. The internet is a cold and lonely place and as great as online social interaction can be, there is nothing we can suggest to you outside of a 3D Porn Chatroom that would give you what you require.

Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.

  Beatnik59

Elite Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2262

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

10/16/13 1:52:07 PM#72
Originally posted by LizardEgypt
Originally posted by Consuetudo

Sociality is what is missing to me in MMORPGs. It is not that I want a game to force me to be social, but I want a game that provides an environment that gives me the intrinsic desire to want to be social within them. I should be so taken away by the feeling being in a certain town or village provides me with that, in this state of awe, I would want to wander the streets as one of its citizens, and see groups of players doing things in that city that are completely within the role-playing the city encourages. And yet this role-playing should not be a mindset forcefully adopted by the players, but it should be suggested, once again, by the game environment itself, and the player would naturally desire to role-play, in such a way that they perhaps won't even be aware of what they are doing. 

And I have encountered this in games. The Blood Elf city in WoW evoked this, as did that first entrance into Stormwind, or Ironforge. 

Though all of this boils down to the constant argument I hear from here: we are wanting worlds, not just games. 

So it's true then: add my vote to the pot. I want a social world that is full of beauty and intricasy. Combat isn't even necessary to me.

Directly replying to your Title. Can I recommend the mall, park, library, or public forum of a university?

'Earth' is a beautiful place and, if your desire is to socialize, I recommend trying to satisfy that desire by starting there. The internet is a cold and lonely place and as great as online social interaction can be, there is nothing we can suggest to you outside of a 3D Porn Chatroom that would give you what you require.

I could equally recommend to the loot hunters that they should become archeologists or financiers.  The PvP junkies can join the police or the army.  All those institutions are noble pursuits; they should channel all the energy they put in these things and apply it to reality.

The people who have studied these internet games, like Edward Castronova, show that people gravitate towards these worlds because the world is not necessarily a 'beautiful place.'  Because while you may have access to these goods you mention, not everyone does.  There are people playing these things, because they don't have access to the things you mention.  Shouldn't they have access to meaningful opportunities to get the things they want here?  They aren't asking for much.

__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken

"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  Vunak23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 660

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

10/16/13 1:55:27 PM#73
Originally posted by maplestone
Originally posted by Vunak23

 


Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by Vunak23 So saying you don't enjoy the random or forced grouping mechanics seems to be a problem with the players unable to accept that mechanic as something that should be a staple of the MMO genre.
Or perhaps different people have different personalities and are motivated and demotivated by different things?
I understand that perfectly. But apparently my taking a stab at the person I was quoting flew way over your head. I will try to make that more apparent next time.

I'm pretty sure you don't understand because your very next sentence was bewilderment over why people would play an MMO solo.  I don't believe you would say that if you really understood what it meant for people to have different personalities and different interactions with their environments.

That is why there are different genres that appeal to different people. I don't personally enjoy a MOBA, but I do enjoy MMORPGs. People enjoy playing solo because they don't like socializing. Well MMO's are built upon socializing which would indicate they really don't enjoy MMO's in the context they were created for and would do better in a single player RPG that has similar mechanics. MMO's aren't meant to be personal, they aren't designed specifically with you in mind. 

The selfish behaviour people have in MMO's now a days is one of the main reasons they don't do so well imo. If people weren't so self centered or self focused and actually took time to backtrack and perhaps help the newer players and help with things they might not gain any benefit from it would extend the playability of those games for not only themselves but the ones they are helping as well. Peoples arguments against grouping are always funny to me. 

"I don't like grouping because it takes forever to get a group/help with things."

But when a player like that is asked to help someone else they wouldn't gain anything out of personally, most would answer with a resounding no. They want help, but have no desire to help those in return. 

 

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  ste2000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4736

10/16/13 1:56:28 PM#74
I am waiting since 2008................. still hopeful
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20657

10/16/13 2:18:57 PM#75
Originally posted by Vunak23
 

That is why there are different genres that appeal to different people. I don't personally enjoy a MOBA, but I do enjoy MMORPGs. People enjoy playing solo because they don't like socializing. Well MMO's are built upon socializing which would indicate they really don't enjoy MMO's in the context they were created for and would do better in a single player RPG that has similar mechanics. MMO's aren't meant to be personal, they aren't designed specifically with you in mind. 


 

And yet many MMORPGs support solo gameplay. And yet many MMORPG players play solo. There is something you clearly don't understand if you assume "MMO's are built upon socializing" applies to everyone.

 

  JimmyYO

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 541

10/16/13 2:25:56 PM#76

LOTRO? GW2? SWTOR? You guys must be joking.

There hasn't been a game that encourages you to socialize since EQ Classic/UO/DAoC/FFXI.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20657

10/16/13 2:29:35 PM#77
Originally posted by JimmyYO

LOTRO? GW2? SWTOR? You guys must be joking.

There hasn't been a game that encourages you to socialize since EQ Classic/UO/DAoC/FFXI.

Every MMO has a chat room, and guild functions. If players don't want to socialize, and only want to play the games, it is not the problem of the game.

 

  Vunak23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 660

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

10/16/13 2:29:53 PM#78
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Vunak23
 

That is why there are different genres that appeal to different people. I don't personally enjoy a MOBA, but I do enjoy MMORPGs. People enjoy playing solo because they don't like socializing. Well MMO's are built upon socializing which would indicate they really don't enjoy MMO's in the context they were created for and would do better in a single player RPG that has similar mechanics. MMO's aren't meant to be personal, they aren't designed specifically with you in mind. 


 

And yet many MMORPGs support solo gameplay. And yet many MMORPG players play solo. There is something you clearly don't understand if you assume "MMO's are built upon socializing" applies to everyone.

 

The only Solo MMO (Thats funny since it is so counter to the actual MMO term) that has self sustained and hasn't had to continuously downsize/server merge has been WoW; and even they are falling to that plague now. While the games that have more group based content and are years older are still chugging on. So yes, MMORPG's have devolved from their previous incarnations into a more solo friendly environment, but that hasn't produced a successful product. 

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  Vunak23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 660

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

10/16/13 2:30:44 PM#79
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by JimmyYO

LOTRO? GW2? SWTOR? You guys must be joking.

There hasn't been a game that encourages you to socialize since EQ Classic/UO/DAoC/FFXI.

Every MMO has a chat room, and guild functions. If players don't want to socialize, and only want to play the games, it is not the problem of the game.

 

It is when socialization is counter-productive to progress in the game. 

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20657

10/16/13 2:50:50 PM#80
Originally posted by Vunak23
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by JimmyYO

LOTRO? GW2? SWTOR? You guys must be joking.

There hasn't been a game that encourages you to socialize since EQ Classic/UO/DAoC/FFXI.

Every MMO has a chat room, and guild functions. If players don't want to socialize, and only want to play the games, it is not the problem of the game.

 

It is when socialization is counter-productive to progress in the game. 

That only shows that players value progress over socialization. Not only it is not a problem, it is something devs should design for.

Think of it .. if players like to progress, more than socialization in a game, how should i design a game? It does not take a genius to figure out that put more progress into the game, and make socialization optional.

 

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