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Darkfall: Unholy Wars

Darkfall: Unholy Wars 

General Discussion  » Claus is the savior of Darkfall; it only takes you to believe that first

14 posts found
  -Zeno-

Novice Member

Joined: 12/22/05
Posts: 1301

 
OP  10/14/13 5:16:49 PM#1

Claus is back.  He was one of the original developers of Darkfall 1.0.  If he wasn't there DF1.0 wouldn't exist.  Having him work on DFUW is a huge asset.  However, without the player there is no game.  If he is the savior of DFUW but you don't believe in him then the most unique game on the market will die and all we will be left with are EQ clones like World of Warcraft.  If there is any time to re-sub to the game or buy it for the first time that time is now.

 

Here are some old old thoughts from Claus for your entertainment:

World of Warcraft is Boring
Monday, February 21, 2005
 
I have been planning to write about World of Warcraft for weeks, but I have somehow found all kinds of excuses to do something else, like watering the plants, taking out the garbage, or sorting through my DVD collection.
 
The game totally bores me, and I even get bored thinking about why.
 
It may not even be World of Warcrafts fault - I think it is just the very concept I am tired of. It's Everquest again. Better, but still Everquest. Except for their mailbox system, there is little we haven't already seen in previous MMOGs.
 
The PvP is pointless, since there is no PvP content. You can kill a guy, but nothing happens. To illustrate: I was grinding monsters one day, and got attacked by another player. I killed him. He is back 40 seconds later. I kill him. He is back 40 seconds later. I killed this guy 13 times (!) in a row, before I realized how utterly pointless it was, and logged off. I got nothing for killing him, and he lost nothing for dying. It's like reversed griefing.
 
Hint: Penalty and reward, Blizzard.
 
The biggest problem with World of Warcraft however, is that it sold so many copies, encouraging other companies to make more games like it.
 
John Smedley, President of Sony Online Entertainment thinks it is a spectacular game...
 
Claus
 
_and
 
I am a PvPer
Tuesday, May 25, 2004

I don't know why, but somehow competing - fighting other people and beating them - is the only way I can get the adrenaline pump going, and feel truly happy.

So I have decided to get really good at p0ker.

Claus
 
_and
 
Topic: Are Online Worlds Too Complex?
Within the online world community, there are both developers and players who feel believe that, as a generalization, the games tend to be too complex, over-intellectualized and over-designed. For this segment in our Online Worlds Roundtable series, we invited representatives of various studios and project teams to offer their respective points of view on this interesting issue.

Claus Grovdal
Lead Designer and Producer, Darkfall
Aventurine

For the sake of this roundtable, I am going to assume that the complexity refers to MMOs being too hard to get into, and to keep playing because of high skill and knowledge requirements.

I don't think online worlds are too complex. Far from it. As a matter of fact, I find most current games too shallow and repetitive to hold player interest for very long. You don't need much skill to play most of them - mainly, you need time - and you too can own the Golden Platemail of Awesome. A good example of online worlds being oversimplified is the current trend of getting a quest from an NPC, and having the game literally draw a red line from point A to point B, so you can follow it and 'solve' the quest. That's not very challenging, and when it comes to demanding players, it can't hold much entertainment value either.

Players actually having to think doesn't make online worlds too complex. In my opinion a good game needs several layers of complexity that a player may or may not choose to get into. I like to think of it as a learning curve, with the prospect of more involving content down the line. As far as game design goes, I don't believe in simplifying the content, but rather the interaction with this content. You want players interfacing with the game as easily and smoothly as possible, but without sacrificing depth of gameplay.

I believe online worlds should be more complex than they are today. When players have killed every monster, solved every quest and tried out every emote, they'll need new levels of depth and new areas of gameplay to explore. Unfortunately, this is where most of the current online worlds have run their course.

Claus
 
_and to show Claus is sill with us (reply to someone mentioning the posts are deleted and that Claus may not be with the company anymore)
 

Yesterday, 08:54 PM

Tasos

Darkfall Developer

it's just us trying to protect our friend who apparently had an unfortunate human moment.

 

 

Support Darkfall Development!  Subscribe in the name of Claus!

 

The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

  Lustmord

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 1072

10/15/13 12:20:19 AM#2

If you haven't tried it, you're missing out.

There's a learning curve, but it's the best MMO on the market today.

It's the best persistent world, with meaningful pvp available.

 

If you're thinking about returning, the last balance patch greatly improved the combat.

 

  -Zeno-

Novice Member

Joined: 12/22/05
Posts: 1301

 
OP  10/15/13 3:34:36 AM#3

The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

  DarthRaiden

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/05
Posts: 4547

i make art,
till someone dies.

Forum Terrorist

10/15/13 6:50:45 AM#4

The new Darkfall myth is that Claus was absent and now he is back.

 

To correct this missconception Claus has never left. He just decided to show up and talk guess cause situation becomes desparate over at AV HQ.

Probably now  he  regrets the DF:UW move but he was there as a producer and could have stoped it if he would have been "the man".

 

and why a new topic about same subject ?

 

As a darkfall online loyal subscriber for 3,5 years i warn everyone to subscribe to Darkfall in its current shape and with the current management (AV + Tasos)  because of shaddy tactics and wrong promises.

-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  ivanj99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/13
Posts: 21

10/15/13 6:58:27 AM#5

After reading some "Claus stuff", I'm thinking this is the only guy that actually played Asheron's Call 1.

 

he understands that a quest that you pick up from an exclamation mark, and leads you with a overlay red line, is BORING. I'd rather get a piece of paper  I read and figure out various clues to finish a quest,

 

I'd rather do 2 hour long puzzle/thinking quest, then 40 repetitive wow style quests anyday!

  flizzer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1156

10/15/13 7:09:21 AM#6
Is it f2p yet?   If not, I'll pass.
  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1160

10/15/13 7:16:03 AM#7
Originally posted by ivanj99

After reading some "Claus stuff", I'm thinking this is the only guy that actually played Asheron's Call 1.

 

he understands that a quest that you pick up from an exclamation mark, and leads you with a overlay red line, is BORING. I'd rather get a piece of paper  I read and figure out various clues to finish a quest,

 

I'd rather do 2 hour long puzzle/thinking quest, then 40 repetitive wow style quests anyday!

Yeah, that whole part of his remarks really struck home for me. I've been saying the same thing for years: Bring the players back into the equation, stop witih this ridiculous "connect the dots" crap.

A major reason so many people grow bored with a MMO as quickly as they do is because they're not being engaged mentally/intellectually. Being able to easily check off a list of tasks because all you're really interested in is the reward at the end sounds awfully nice, but it's also not entertaining nor mentally engaging. It's mundane and mindless. Notice how so many people complain that the trip from level 1 to cap is nothing but a boring grind? That's because it's been designed that way by developers/designers who are afraid if they challenge players too much, it might scare them off.

It's also part of why developers can't keep up with the pace at which players consume their content. The content is too easy.

Personally, I'm sick of it, and have been sick of it. It's like an insult to my intelligence every time I play a MMO like that. I stopped playing FFXIV ARR, in part, for that reason (there are many others, but that's definitely one of the major ones). I'm tired of MMOs pointing every little detail out to me, so all that's left to do is chase quest markers and collect rewards.

If someone offers me a challenge to complete a maze, I expect to see this:

An empty maze that I must solve in order to progress and receive my reward.

What do most MMORPGs these days give you instead? This:

They leave absolutely nothing for me to do but follow the clearly marked lines/markers. That's it. That's all it involves.

That is freaking boring.

Unfortunately, because so many gamers are gear/loot obsessed, couldn't care less about story  and want things to be as un-challenging as possible, the activity required to obtain those rewards is little more than an obstacle. So, they - in the short term anyway - prefer things to be easier. They're not trying to be challenged by a game. They're just trying to collect loot. The current game of "chase the quest markers" fits that just fine.

But at the end of the day, I still contend that the long-term effect of that design is boredom and antipathy toward the model. Once the rewards run dry, there's also nothing to keep them engaged in the game. Nothing to challenge them and keep them interested.

The way to change this is two-fold:

1. Players need to start demanding more challenging and interesting content. No more mindless fetch-and-kill busy-work tasks.

2. Developers have got to take off the training wheels, stop coddling the players, and start providing more challenging and interesting content, which will engage the players more and make those rewards at the end feel better earned.

My two cents.

"Devs need to stop trying to make MMOs for people who don't like MMOs" - thevampirelematt/Reddit

  ivanj99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/13
Posts: 21

10/15/13 7:16:51 AM#8
Originally posted by flizzer
Is it f2p yet?   If not, I'll pass.

 

You do realize that F2P is only a bait and hook tactic with every single AA-MMOG currently out? there are some Pure F2P games like Haven and Hearth, and Tribes, EQ P99, SWG Emulators, and other indie companies that might do F2P without deception tactics. And wow, awesome comparative example Tangent.
  GrayImpact

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 861

10/15/13 7:17:00 AM#9

I really don't think darkfall has ever been worth playing, the production quality has just always seemed really low.

I love the idea of it though, so if the game gets some major polish and overhauling i might try to play a third time.

  ivanj99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/15/13
Posts: 21

10/15/13 7:29:43 AM#10
Originally posted by Agoden

I really don't think darkfall has ever been worth playing, the production quality has just always seemed really low.

I love the idea of it though, so if the game gets some major polish and overhauling i might try to play a third time.

 

Currently I'd rather play a game that doesn't have tedious tasks, aka Chivalry : Medieval Warfare, over a game where I have to grind for 1 to 2 months DF/AC1, honestly. I mean it used to be fine to start low level and work your way up, but when everybody is sitting on the top, waiting for you, I'd rather just be insta-max level, geared, and then do cool fun puzzles and quests, and player & enviroment vs player and enviroments, and exploring at cap, because there is nobody but yourself on the bottom working up.
  MrBoots

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/07/03
Posts: 280

10/15/13 7:47:59 AM#11
Originally posted by DarthRaiden

The new Darkfall myth is that Claus was absent and now he is back.

 

To correct this missconception Claus has never left. He just decided to show up and talk guess cause situation becomes desparate over at AV HQ.

I've been wondering why people think he left. I thought everyone had gone insane other than myself. I think you are right about the desperate situation. Claus mentioned that he has 4 months left on his contract at AV. Maybe the end is near and he just doesn't care about the gag they put on all non-Tasos employees anymore.

  User Deleted
10/15/13 11:53:01 AM#12
Originally posted by MrBoots
Originally posted by DarthRaiden

The new Darkfall myth is that Claus was absent and now he is back.

 

To correct this missconception Claus has never left. He just decided to show up and talk guess cause situation becomes desparate over at AV HQ.

I've been wondering why people think he left. I thought everyone had gone insane other than myself. I think you are right about the desperate situation. Claus mentioned that he has 4 months left on his contract at AV. Maybe the end is near and he just doesn't care about the gag they put on all non-Tasos employees anymore.

Perhaps it has something to do with the Aventurine/InternetQ deal.

"Assuming the conversion takes place within seven months from the launch of Darkfall's sequel (code-named Darkfall 2.0), InternetQ will own c.40% of the Company's share capital. Following such conversion, InternetQ will also have the option to buy additional Company shares in order to control the majority of its share capital. "

 

I think Aventurine is in for some big changes soon.

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

10/15/13 12:00:51 PM#13

You mean a game with forced open world PvP with serious penalties is not doing well and never has?

 

You mean most players really don't want to spend their gaming time getting ganked by others and losing items/progress?

 

 

 

Darkfall will never have a large player base as the game is far to niche to attract more then 10k people at a time. The few extras that do show up get beaten down to the point of having regretted ever even trying it.

 

Having a member of the team go the cliché cool guy part by ragging on all other mainstream products to show how much better he is doesn't inspire people to go play a game.

  User Deleted
10/15/13 12:08:15 PM#14
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

You mean a game with forced open world PvP with serious penalties is not doing well and never has?

 

You mean most players really don't want to spend their gaming time getting ganked by others and losing items/progress?

 

 

The genre isn't the problem, it's the inept developers in it.  A "good" FFA sandbox would do just fine.

 

Also, DFUW has ZERO penalties.