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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Help me understand. Why do you buy gold?

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293 posts found
  qombi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 1187

10/13/13 12:57:15 PM#141

I wouldn't play a video game if I found parts of it so broken I had to bypass them by going outside of the game to skip them. That is my argument. I wouldn't play the game at all if it was designed so poorly I felt I needed to do this.

I played an MMO once (not naming names) that I found the task of collecting materials so boring and unnecessarily long that I decided not to play that one. I put my money towards games that have features I find fun. Games that are not my cup of tea I don't play. Simple as that.

I find what you are doing illogical. I think I will purposely try to entertain myself by raking leaves yet I don't really like raking leaves so I will pay someone else to do it.

Would someone that buys gold explain to me why you would continue participating in something clearly you do not have time for, find too tedious/hard, and/or boring? It sounds like a disorder, you may need to go get help. I would go find a game designed for my life style instead of cheating in a game that was meant to be played for fun. If you aren't playing it, you are in the wrong game.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3177

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

10/13/13 1:49:23 PM#142


Originally posted by Sacria

Originally posted by tmann50
Really simple answer there...Not every one can spend 50 hous a day gaming so they spend money to get items needed to compete. There are a lot of other ones but that is the most important one imho

I'd wager that nobody can spend 50 hours a day doing anything, no matter how hard the try......

People buying gold are people who have too much money irl, and therefore can choose to spend it on whatever they feel like on a whim. It doesn't really affect me a lot and as such I dont really care too much about it. Though in my opinion it's wrong and nothing I would ever consider.



Good point about the 50 hours a day :)

Gold buyers CAN affect your gameplay if they inflate the prices, say in an Auction House environment.

Basically, it is another form of pay to win in my opinion.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  dragonsi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/06/09
Posts: 63

10/14/13 2:59:59 AM#143
I have bought gold in the past, for 2 or 3 various reasons. I am a HUGE crafter, and sometimes end game items cost a huge amount of money. I also bought it because it was extremely cheap, say 100 gold, or even 100,000 coins for $3-6, you can't beat that. I also bought it twice because the game was not doing anything about gold spammers, 100s of times in a starting area for an hour and I was pissed lol.
dragonsi Xfire Miniprofile
  LoverNoFighter

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 334

SWG pre cu > all

10/14/13 6:27:25 AM#144
Originally posted by bcbully
It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't have a profound paragraph to write, I just want to know why. Thanks in advance. 

 Because I can.

I don't wnna spend hours upon hours geargrinding in a game. I wanna play and have fun. If I can buy the gold/credits that allow me to buy the top gear then that's what I'll do.

Unlike the many kids who play MMOs, I'm an adult who make mone and I got no financial issues from spending my money on virtual ones.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

10/14/13 6:31:54 AM#145
Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
Originally posted by bcbully
It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't have a profound paragraph to write, I just want to know why. Thanks in advance. 

 Because I can.

I don't wnna spend hours upon hours geargrinding in a game. I wanna play and have fun. If I can buy the gold/credits that allow me to buy the top gear then that's what I'll do.

Unlike the many kids who play MMOs, I'm an adult who make mone and I got no financial issues from spending my money on virtual ones.

I guess that as a mature adult, you also have no problems with being part of the cause why MMORPGs are filled with bots, gold farmers, gold spammers and account thieves. Who cares if you ruin the game for everyone else, as long as you have your cheap fun, right?

My computer is better than yours.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

10/14/13 6:37:43 AM#146

I used to buy gold a few times in the old days, and in every case to buy a mount. Mounts were/are insidiously expensive, and I didn't want to wait until endgame until I could afford a mount as normal player, who didn't want to do gold grinding myself. So I believed in capitalism: don't want to do something yourself? Hire another person to do the job.

The very existence of gold buying is IMVPO proof that something in MMOs is just wrong. If the path to get something is fun, people don't buy gold. Especially for casual gamers some stuff is just way too much out of reach.

Or it used to be like this before the ingame stores.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  ruonim

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/09
Posts: 255

10/14/13 6:41:54 AM#147
Remvoe grind. No gold buyers, no power leveling. Simple.
  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

10/14/13 6:42:28 AM#148
Originally posted by Elikal

The very existence of gold buying is IMVPO proof that something in MMOs is just wrong. If the path to get something is fun, people don't buy gold. Especially for casual gamers some stuff is just way too much out of reach.

Stuff will always be "too hard" for some people. The problem is more where does fun start and stop for different people?

Reaction 1: it's not fun, I just don't do it. Who cares, it's just a virtual item.

Reaction 2: it's not fun, I cheat (aka break game rules by buying gold) to do it, not minding that I participate in ruining parts of the game for everyone else by helping it being filled by with farmers, sellers, spammers and account thieves.

I use reaction 1. And being casual is not an excuse for cheating and participating in making the game worse for many others.

My computer is better than yours.

  Oberholzer

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/06
Posts: 497

10/14/13 6:58:47 AM#149
Originally posted by Aori
Originally posted by Krimzin

I can only speak from my own opinion.

People who buy gold are typically people who have disposable income. Someone who has disposable income typically has a good job so it limits the time they can play. They still want to keep up but don't have the time to farm gold and raid. So they buy gold to save time.

I get it and could care less if they do. They work for their money and should be able to spend it how they like.

I would rather someone work and buy gold then to be unemployed and have massive amounts of gold. Gold Buyer > Deadbeat any day of the week.

Again.. Just my opinion.

Yes it is your opinion and it isn't correct. I've had contact with many people who squandered their real cash for money. Some failed to pay rent, some had to use savings, others had to "pawn" their account. I've even known people who were suits that got landed in to trouble from dumping 10s of thousands of dollars in virtual goods.

Many people don't have the money to spend on it but like what it does for them.

What you're describing really isn't about buying gold, it's about people living above their means. Your story could describe people spending money they don't really have on anything. The virtual items to make them spend it.

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1170

10/14/13 7:10:37 AM#150

Impatience to have or attain "things", and/or a need to be competitive or superior to other players as soon as possible, is typically the motivation behind it in my experience.

I've seen and discussed a lot of different explanations, excuses and rationalizations for it, but many of them only work if you look at them superficially. The moment you start thinking about what's being said, and the implications behind it (sometimes those implications are spelled out as well, making it easier to connect the dots), the picture becomes clearer. Again, in every case, it's boiled down to impatience or that need to be competitive.

The "more money than time" argument comes up a lot. It surely works great as a personal rationalization of why it's "okay" to the individual doing it, but it is hardly a sound explanation in any other way. What it really boils down to is someone wanting something faster than they'd be able to get it otherwise. The only value they perceive is having a "thing", whatever that "thing" may be.

They don't perceive the gameplay required to get it as part of the experience - it's just something getting in the way of what they want. Saying "I don't have the time to spend getting it otherwise", is really saying "I don't have the free time to get it as quickly as I'd like to, and I don't have the patience to get it by playing the game as it's designed" -  only they never mention that italicized part. Of course they wouldn't. It puts the onus on them, which is precisely what they don't want. First rule of defending indefensible behavior: always shift the blame and responsibility of your actions to someone or something else.

People will say "well, it takes far too long to get anything done in this game! The designers are idiots!". Again, an argument that - on the surface - seems to make sense. However, it's easily dismantled with a simple question: Too long compared to what? There is no objective, all-encompassing "rule" of "how long any thing in a MMORPG should take". What's "too long" for one person might be just fine for someone else. So, too long compared to what? Well, too long compared to what the individual making the argument would prefer, of course. But they can't acknowledge that. They can't say "It takes longer than I'd like it to", because now they're acknowledging that it's a personal quip, and not a universal issue. And, when you're trying to justify behavior such as buying in-game money, you have to make sure the blame and responsibility lands on anyone but yourself. So, they argue it as a "universal truth" and blame it on the game/developers, hence justifying their engagement in RMT - at least to themselves.

As another example, often times, people will defend buying in-game money by saying "well, the game is so horribly designed and dragged out, that it forces you to buy money just to be able to play it". This is, again, someone freeing themselves of any personal responsibility in the act, by putting the blame on something else (the game/developers). And, for good measure, they'll often say the game "forces" them to buy money. Yep, they play the victim card. So, not only are they justfied (in their own minds) for what they're doing... they are the victim. The game is forcing them to buy that in-game money. It's the game that's the problem. Not them. Of course, this, too is nonsense. It's just another example of how people will spin rationalizations to excuse their own behavior in a situation and avoid any personal responsibility in the matter.

Buying in-game money in a MMO - specifically where such activity is prohibited (a detail so many love to conveniently ignore as though it doesn't apply to them) - is a choice made by people who aren't so much interested in playing the game, as they are in obtaining "things" as quickly as possible. No matter the excuse, explanation, rationalization, justification or spin-doctoring... it boils down to impatience. Nothing more.

 

"Devs need to stop trying to make MMOs for people who don't like MMOs" - thevampirelematt/Reddit

  LoverNoFighter

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 334

SWG pre cu > all

10/14/13 7:12:49 AM#151
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by LoverNoFighter
Originally posted by bcbully
It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't have a profound paragraph to write, I just want to know why. Thanks in advance. 

 Because I can.

I don't wnna spend hours upon hours geargrinding in a game. I wanna play and have fun. If I can buy the gold/credits that allow me to buy the top gear then that's what I'll do.

Unlike the many kids who play MMOs, I'm an adult who make mone and I got no financial issues from spending my money on virtual ones.

I guess that as a mature adult, you also have no problems with being part of the cause why MMORPGs are filled with bots, gold farmers, gold spammers and account thieves. Who cares if you ruin the game for everyone else, as long as you have your cheap fun, right?

 Spot on Einstein.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

10/14/13 7:17:14 AM#152
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Elikal

The very existence of gold buying is IMVPO proof that something in MMOs is just wrong. If the path to get something is fun, people don't buy gold. Especially for casual gamers some stuff is just way too much out of reach.

Stuff will always be "too hard" for some people. The problem is more where does fun start and stop for different people?

Reaction 1: it's not fun, I just don't do it. Who cares, it's just a virtual item.

Reaction 2: it's not fun, I cheat (aka break game rules by buying gold) to do it, not minding that I participate in ruining parts of the game for everyone else by helping it being filled by with farmers, sellers, spammers and account thieves.

I use reaction 1. And being casual is not an excuse for cheating and participating in making the game worse for many others.

Matey... I always cheat when rules are in my disfavour. They aren't actual rules... more like... guidlines. It's what a man can do, and what a man can't do, matey! ;)

But seriously: I am, maybe unlike you, a mortal. Meaning: I have one limited lifetime. And I refuse to waste that with un-fun game parts. And walking to the fun because I can not afford a mount, most certainly IS unfun. So I hax myself a horse. I would never actively rob a gamer. But a China Farmer just plays very competitive. So he technically doesn't do anything I could not do myself. But as is the case in free market: I pay a poor dude and give him some chance to earn his food. All sides happy, no?

Well, if that ruins games, I can only say: companies, make the games better, aka: without un-fun parts. Vanguard for instance had offered cheap beginner horses. Or WOW had given cool armour pieces even for beginners and for small tasks. Voila problem solved. But as long as companies torture me with grind, I will try to evade non-fun parts and let others do that for me.

It is called capitalism, ya know.

 

It is the case with all hobbies. If you collect toy trains, a rich guy will have more and better toy/model trains than you have. Such is life. *shrug*

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Anthur

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 621

10/14/13 7:26:24 AM#153

I won't go to much into detail as that would probably get me banned. ;)

What are we talking about here ?

Games have rules. Be it card games, sport games, computer games whatever. Doesn't matter. If you break the game rules (in this case buying gold illegally and against the rules) you cheat. Definition can be found e.g. here http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/cheat

Cheating in games is as old as games are. There are many reasons and even more excuses (see this thread for examples on both) from the cheaters to justify it. In the end it all comes down to the fact that cheaters have no respect for others or even themselves.

Does anyone like playing with a cheater ? Anyway, that's all I have to say on this topic.

 

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

10/14/13 7:32:24 AM#154
Originally posted by Elikal
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Elikal

The very existence of gold buying is IMVPO proof that something in MMOs is just wrong. If the path to get something is fun, people don't buy gold. Especially for casual gamers some stuff is just way too much out of reach.

Stuff will always be "too hard" for some people. The problem is more where does fun start and stop for different people?

Reaction 1: it's not fun, I just don't do it. Who cares, it's just a virtual item.

Reaction 2: it's not fun, I cheat (aka break game rules by buying gold) to do it, not minding that I participate in ruining parts of the game for everyone else by helping it being filled by with farmers, sellers, spammers and account thieves.

I use reaction 1. And being casual is not an excuse for cheating and participating in making the game worse for many others.

Matey... I always cheat when rules are in my disfavour. They aren't actual rules... more like... guidlines. It's what a man can do, and what a man can't do, matey! ;)

I'm definitely not your "matey", and well, yeah, some people respect rules and others don't. Nothing new under the sun. I personally don't care if people cheat in single player games, hell, I used cheat codes too myself, but when it affects other people in a multiplayer environment, then yes, it bothers me, and I personally don't do it.

But seriously: I am, maybe unlike you, a mortal. Meaning: I have one limited lifetime. And I refuse to waste that with un-fun game parts. And walking to the fun because I can not afford a mount, most certainly IS unfun. So I hax myself a horse. I would never actively rob a gamer. But a China Farmer just plays very competitive. So he technically doesn't do anything I could not do myself. But as is the case in free market: I pay a poor dude and give him some chance to earn his food. All sides happy, no?

Do you really think it's the poor farmer who earns the most in that gold farming industry? How naive... you may want to read a bit about how that industry really works.

And if something is not fun... what about just not doing it? You would never actively rob a gamer, but those farming companies who provided that gold you bought do it, they hack accounts daily. So indirectly, you indeed robbed other gamers.

Well, if that ruins games, I can only say: companies, make the games better, aka: without un-fun parts. Vanguard for instance had offered cheap beginner horses. Or WOW had given cool armour pieces even for beginners and for small tasks. Voila problem solved. But as long as companies torture me with grind, I will try to evade non-fun parts and let others do that for me.

There's also the other, honest approach. If you can't get something immediately without going through stuff that isn't fun for you, just do not get it and wait. Eventually, one day, you will have it. But I guess that wouldn't fit the instant gratification crowd. Nowadays, it's all about "me! me! me" and "now! now! now!".

It is called capitalism, ya know.

It's called cheating for instant gratification, without caring about the impact it can have.

It is the case with all hobbies. If you collect toy trains, a rich guy will have more and better toy/model trains than you have. Such is life. *shrug*

The rich guy who has better trains doesn't ruin anything for anyone else. He doesn't make it so that your own train installation is spammed by gold sellers, that you can't use your trains because the place is occupied by gold farmers, and that some even attempt to steal your train installation.

My computer is better than yours.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

10/14/13 7:32:54 AM#155
Originally posted by Anthur

I won't go to much into detail as that would probably get me banned. ;)

What are we talking about here ?

Games have rules. Be it card games, sport games, computer games whatever. Doesn't matter. If you break the game rules (in this case buying gold illegally and against the rules) you cheat. Definition can be found e.g. here http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/cheat

Cheating in games is as old as games are. There are many reasons and even more excuses (see this thread for examples on both) from the cheaters to justify it. In the end it all comes down to the fact that cheaters have no respect for others or even themselves.

Does anyone like playing with a cheater ? Anyway, that's all I have to say on this topic.

 

Hell yes!

I used to be in a tabletop game group. One of them was a cheater, but he was a super cool dude with whom I had tons of fun, whereas the over serious "oh stick to them rulz" guys just get on my nerves. I hate that when people take game so damn serious, to the point that it kills the fun.

The sabbath is made for man, not man is made for the sabbath, to quote the Saviour. Meaning: rules should SERVE people, not people serve rules. They are made for us, by us. A rule is not a self-existing thing. WE MADE IT UP, and if rules are not good, they must be changed, but if for whatever reason they are not changed, we must help ourselves. There came a point in life where I decided not to live in misery because of rules imposed on me by other people.

It is called enlightened self-interest. Last time I heard that is what drives progress. I am always willing to stick to rules when everyone benefits from them, but I will not blindly follow rules which violate my personal interets in areas which are supposed to be fun, like hobbies and games.

I always follow a rule which is good. But alas, not all rules are good rules.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

10/14/13 7:37:25 AM#156
Originally posted by Anthur

I won't go to much into detail as that would probably get me banned. ;)

What are we talking about here ?

Games have rules. Be it card games, sport games, computer games whatever. Doesn't matter. If you break the game rules (in this case buying gold illegally and against the rules) you cheat. Definition can be found e.g. here http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/cheat

Cheating in games is as old as games are. There are many reasons and even more excuses (see this thread for examples on both) from the cheaters to justify it. In the end it all comes down to the fact that cheaters have no respect for others or even themselves.

Does anyone like playing with a cheater ? Anyway, that's all I have to say on this topic.

Absolutely.

And cheaters always make up the most exotic excuses when caught, too.

"Yeah, I know Mr Policeman, that I was way above the legal speed limit, but there was no one on the road, it wasn't dangerous!"

"Those anti gold buying rules are silly, I don't harm anyone if I buy some gold to purchase that shiny trinket I want right now."

Not thinking further than the tip of their own noses, a complete refusal to acknowledge what harm their actions can do.

My computer is better than yours.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7237

 
OP  10/14/13 8:00:57 AM#157
Originally posted by TangentPoint

Impatience to have or attain "things", and/or a need to be competitive or superior to other players as soon as possible, is typically the motivation behind it in my experience.

I've seen and discussed a lot of different explanations, excuses and rationalizations for it, but many of them only work if you look at them superficially. The moment you start thinking about what's being said, and the implications behind it (sometimes those implications are spelled out as well, making it easier to connect the dots), the picture becomes clearer. Again, in every case, it's boiled down to impatience or that need to be competitive.

The "more money than time" argument comes up a lot. It surely works great as a personal rationalization of why it's "okay" to the individual doing it, but it is hardly a sound explanation in any other way. What it really boils down to is someone wanting something faster than they'd be able to get it otherwise. The only value they perceive is having a "thing", whatever that "thing" may be.

They don't perceive the gameplay required to get it as part of the experience - it's just something getting in the way of what they want. Saying "I don't have the time to spend getting it otherwise", is really saying "I don't have the free time to get it as quickly as I'd like to, and I don't have the patience to get it by playing the game as it's designed" -  only they never mention that italicized part. Of course they wouldn't. It puts the onus on them, which is precisely what they don't want. First rule of defending indefensible behavior: always shift the blame and responsibility of your actions to someone or something else.

People will say "well, it takes far too long to get anything done in this game! The designers are idiots!". Again, an argument that - on the surface - seems to make sense. However, it's easily dismantled with a simple question: Too long compared to what? There is no objective, all-encompassing "rule" of "how long any thing in a MMORPG should take". What's "too long" for one person might be just fine for someone else. So, too long compared to what? Well, too long compared to what the individual making the argument would prefer, of course. But they can't acknowledge that. They can't say "It takes longer than I'd like it to", because now they're acknowledging that it's a personal quip, and not a universal issue. And, when you're trying to justify behavior such as buying in-game money, you have to make sure the blame and responsibility lands on anyone but yourself. So, they argue it as a "universal truth" and blame it on the game/developers, hence justifying their engagement in RMT - at least to themselves.

As another example, often times, people will defend buying in-game money by saying "well, the game is so horribly designed and dragged out, that it forces you to buy money just to be able to play it". This is, again, someone freeing themselves of any personal responsibility in the act, by putting the blame on something else (the game/developers). And, for good measure, they'll often say the game "forces" them to buy money. Yep, they play the victim card. So, not only are they justfied (in their own minds) for what they're doing... they are the victim. The game is forcing them to buy that in-game money. It's the game that's the problem. Not them. Of course, this, too is nonsense. It's just another example of how people will spin rationalizations to excuse their own behavior in a situation and avoid any personal responsibility in the matter.

Buying in-game money in a MMO - specifically where such activity is prohibited (a detail so many love to conveniently ignore as though it doesn't apply to them) - is a choice made by people who aren't so much interested in playing the game, as they are in obtaining "things" as quickly as possible. No matter the excuse, explanation, rationalization, justification or spin-doctoring... it boils down to impatience. Nothing more.

 

This is exactly how I look at it. From this perspective is where my question came. Thank you for writing our position so well. 

 

 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7237

 
OP  10/14/13 8:15:59 AM#158
Originally posted by Elikal
Originally posted by Anthur

I won't go to much into detail as that would probably get me banned. ;)

What are we talking about here ?

Games have rules. Be it card games, sport games, computer games whatever. Doesn't matter. If you break the game rules (in this case buying gold illegally and against the rules) you cheat. Definition can be found e.g. here http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/cheat

Cheating in games is as old as games are. There are many reasons and even more excuses (see this thread for examples on both) from the cheaters to justify it. In the end it all comes down to the fact that cheaters have no respect for others or even themselves.

Does anyone like playing with a cheater ? Anyway, that's all I have to say on this topic.

 

Hell yes!

I used to be in a tabletop game group. One of them was a cheater, but he was a super cool dude with whom I had tons of fun, whereas the over serious "oh stick to them rulz" guys just get on my nerves. I hate that when people take game so damn serious, to the point that it kills the fun.

The sabbath is made for man, not man is made for the sabbath, to quote the Saviour. Meaning: rules should SERVE people, not people serve rules. They are made for us, by us. A rule is not a self-existing thing. WE MADE IT UP, and if rules are not good, they must be changed, but if for whatever reason they are not changed, we must help ourselves. There came a point in life where I decided not to live in misery because of rules imposed on me by other people.

It is called enlightened self-interest. Last time I heard that is what drives progress. I am always willing to stick to rules when everyone benefits from them, but I will not blindly follow rules which violate my personal interets in areas which are supposed to be fun, like hobbies and games.

I always follow a rule which is good. But alas, not all rules are good rules.

Thank you for your honesty. Are you a young man? 19-23ish? I'm asking because I once felt like you. In fact the fundamental principles of this position stay with me to this day. As I've gotten older (wiser) though, I realized my actions have consequences, not just me but for all around me, and there is most certainly right and wrong.

 

Again thank you for your honesty.

 

edit - I see it says you are 42. I could have an entire off-topic conversation with you.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3177

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

10/14/13 9:40:56 AM#159


Originally posted by Elikal
Matey... I always cheat when rules are in my disfavour. They aren't actual rules... more like... guidlines. It's what a man can do, and what a man can't do, matey! ;)

I could not help but smile here.

My Mother (no longer driving due to age) was a bit similar, in real life. She could not stand to sit in her car in the left turn lane waiting for the light to allow her to go when there were no cars within viewing distance of the intersection. This was usually late at night. So, she would stop, checks the traffic (and looks for policemen) and if it is clear, just goes ahead and use the intersection :D

I think most people have some "inconvenience rules" they may "overlook" every once in awhile :)

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19065

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

10/14/13 9:43:16 AM#160
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by TangentPoint

Impatience to have or attain "things", and/or a need to be competitive or superior to other players as soon as possible, is typically the motivation behind it in my experience.

I've seen and discussed a lot of different explanations, excuses and rationalizations for it, but many of them only work if you look at them superficially. The moment you start thinking about what's being said, and the implications behind it (sometimes those implications are spelled out as well, making it easier to connect the dots), the picture becomes clearer. Again, in every case, it's boiled down to impatience or that need to be competitive.

The "more money than time" argument comes up a lot. It surely works great as a personal rationalization of why it's "okay" to the individual doing it, but it is hardly a sound explanation in any other way. What it really boils down to is someone wanting something faster than they'd be able to get it otherwise. The only value they perceive is having a "thing", whatever that "thing" may be.

They don't perceive the gameplay required to get it as part of the experience - it's just something getting in the way of what they want. Saying "I don't have the time to spend getting it otherwise", is really saying "I don't have the free time to get it as quickly as I'd like to, and I don't have the patience to get it by playing the game as it's designed" -  only they never mention that italicized part. Of course they wouldn't. It puts the onus on them, which is precisely what they don't want. First rule of defending indefensible behavior: always shift the blame and responsibility of your actions to someone or something else.

People will say "well, it takes far too long to get anything done in this game! The designers are idiots!". Again, an argument that - on the surface - seems to make sense. However, it's easily dismantled with a simple question: Too long compared to what? There is no objective, all-encompassing "rule" of "how long any thing in a MMORPG should take". What's "too long" for one person might be just fine for someone else. So, too long compared to what? Well, too long compared to what the individual making the argument would prefer, of course. But they can't acknowledge that. They can't say "It takes longer than I'd like it to", because now they're acknowledging that it's a personal quip, and not a universal issue. And, when you're trying to justify behavior such as buying in-game money, you have to make sure the blame and responsibility lands on anyone but yourself. So, they argue it as a "universal truth" and blame it on the game/developers, hence justifying their engagement in RMT - at least to themselves.

As another example, often times, people will defend buying in-game money by saying "well, the game is so horribly designed and dragged out, that it forces you to buy money just to be able to play it". This is, again, someone freeing themselves of any personal responsibility in the act, by putting the blame on something else (the game/developers). And, for good measure, they'll often say the game "forces" them to buy money. Yep, they play the victim card. So, not only are they justfied (in their own minds) for what they're doing... they are the victim. The game is forcing them to buy that in-game money. It's the game that's the problem. Not them. Of course, this, too is nonsense. It's just another example of how people will spin rationalizations to excuse their own behavior in a situation and avoid any personal responsibility in the matter.

Buying in-game money in a MMO - specifically where such activity is prohibited (a detail so many love to conveniently ignore as though it doesn't apply to them) - is a choice made by people who aren't so much interested in playing the game, as they are in obtaining "things" as quickly as possible. No matter the excuse, explanation, rationalization, justification or spin-doctoring... it boils down to impatience. Nothing more.

This is exactly how I look at it. From this perspective is where my question came. Thank you for writing our position so well. 

Ah, but the thing not mentioned in all of this is, these people do not see any harm in their actions, they feel that at the end of the day, it's just a game, and what's the big deal if they decide to buy gold to improve their game experience.

And except for a true P2W situation, you'd be hard pressed to prove them wrong.  That's not to say things like gold selling spam isn't harmful, but they are relying on the developers to "police this", and not realize it is their buying behavior which causes it in the first place.

In some ways I see their point, it is up to the developers to take steps in both their designs and post release to control illicit activities, and usually if they end up using their gold to buy a new mount or weapon, there really isn't much harm except perhaps accelerating the inevitable economic inflation which does indeed hamper legitimate players.

As for it all being related to impatience, well sure, that's a fact of life, and in almost ever facet of it there are people willing to pay more in order to avoid experiencing it.

 

"Someone once told me, there is always someone more powerful than you." - Nicola [Bunraku]
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

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