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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Ah. I get the whole F2P antipathy that's going around now.

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91 posts found
  Mattatron

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/13
Posts: 237

10/11/13 3:20:37 PM#41
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Nephaerius

The average F2P player actually plays for free.  Hence the whole concept of whales.  It's an extremely low % of the populations on avg that spend cash at all in F2P games.  I'm not 100% sure on the number but it's extremely low and the average player is definitely paying nothing to play.

I'm not sure there really is an avg player in a f2p. A large number of players don't spend money on these games but that includes all the people who make an account try it for a day..hour..whatever and quit.

The paying population numbers I often see always seem to hover around the 10% mark but that isn't as low as it sounds. Including every account ever made keeps that number low.

From the group of ppl I play with we spend between $5 and $30 a month which seems normal among players who spend any real amount of time in a game. I don't know that the whales are as common as ppl like to think in normal mmos. You seem to hear about them more often in these crazy mobile games or facebook.

f2p mmos seem more about getting lots of people to spend a bit rather than a few spending a lot.

Great point. Do statistics (if they exist) of "average players" include people who downloaded the game, looked at it for 3 hours and uninstalled?

I "played" neverwinter mmo for maybe 3 hours total and deleted it. Somewhere I'm on some proud list, I'm sure, of F2P "players who spend nothing to play", but if anyone said to my face, "you are a player of neverwinter", I'd punch them.

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 3632

10/11/13 3:29:43 PM#42
Originally posted by Mattatron

Great point. Do statistics (if they exist) of "average players" include people who downloaded the game, looked at it for 3 hours and uninstalled?

I "played" neverwinter mmo for maybe 3 hours total and deleted it. Somewhere I'm on some proud list, I'm sure, of F2P "players who spend nothing to play", but if anyone said to my face, "you are a player of neverwinter", I'd punch them.

I laughed at the last part...and agree :)

I'm sure on some list you're also one of the 50 million ppl who have signed up for neverwinter!!!!! why don't you join them too!

PEople put way too much faith is stats when it comes to these things. Like how many subs a f2p game has...doesn't tell you how much money it's making. It doesn't include all the cash shop buys.

I'd like to see a "of the people that logged in in the last 30 days and played for more than .... 10 hours ( arbitrary number ) xx% of them spent money on the game. It will never happen though.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  TenebraeAeterna

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/10/13
Posts: 34

What wondrously wicked webs we weave...

10/11/13 3:35:15 PM#43
People confuse Free to Play with Pay to Win.

Most of your Facebook flash based games are Pay to Win, not Free to Play. While you can partake in these games for free, you'll be at an extreme disadvantage unless you shell out the cash to purchase in game items that free based players either can not obtain or can only obtain if they devote their entire lives to actually playing the game. These are disposable games that are made to rope in paying addicts that will shell out thousands of dollars on in game items for a game that lasts a few years, then they'll shut the game down and start a new one to pull those addicts into something fresh. I was recently playing one called Wartune, where I was in a guide with a guy who spent over $10k-20k on the game before quitting.

Now, a true free to play game won't cripple free based players because they count on these players to maintain the high population...giving their paying players individuals to play alongside. If there aren't enough people playing a game, then no one enjoys the game and your paying customers will leave. A good example of a free to play game is Planetside 2, which doesn't sell anything that will give you an edge over non-paying players. The only thing you can do by paying for anything in Planetside 2 is get what free based players can obtain faster, that's it. You can purchase weapons instantly...or you can actually take the time to work up to in game currency to obtain these weapons.

In my opinion, this is an excellent system. Now, with SOE's Player Studio, they have ensured that they will be pulling in even more revenue through subcontracting artists to create content for them atop of what they, themselves, create. This takes the strain off the development team and lets them take on the task of continent development, optimization, weapon design, etc.

The free to play system, the TRUE free to play system, is a new concept that developers are still trying to figure out. Ultimately, many fail and it turns into a Pay to Win concept until finally crashing and burning because of the switch. Free based players don't like being screwed over, and without actually having put money into a game...they're not hesitant to bail if a development team suddenly decides to implement something into the game that's pay to win.

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  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17940

10/11/13 4:12:13 PM#44
Originally posted by Mattatron
Originally posted by Nephaerius

The average F2P player actually plays for free.  Hence the whole concept of whales.  It's an extremely low % of the populations on avg that spend cash at all in F2P games.  I'm not 100% sure on the number but it's extremely low and the average player is definitely paying nothing to play.

Cite data source, please.

 

 

http://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/global-mmo-games-spending-exceeds-12bn/

"Of all 50 million MMO gamers in the US, 23 million spend money on free-to-play or subscription MMOs."

Hence, a majority, 27M do not pay.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9943

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

 
OP  10/11/13 4:54:50 PM#45


Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Voqar I kind of doubt your average player will drop $100/mo on any game.  Fools and their money are easily parted for sure, but the average player doesn't have the luxury to be that foolish with money.
agree

to use another ftp game comparison -- Puzzle Pirates

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4046/what_are_the_rewards_of_.php

 the average revenue per user (ARPU) is between one and two dollars a month, but only about 10% of his player base has ever paid him anything. As a result, he says, approximately 5,000 gamers are generating the $230,000 in revenue he sees each month.

 




So the people who are paying are paying $10 to $20 a month, probably something like $15 a month.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4328

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

10/11/13 5:07:43 PM#46
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Mattatron

Great point. Do statistics (if they exist) of "average players" include people who downloaded the game, looked at it for 3 hours and uninstalled?

I "played" neverwinter mmo for maybe 3 hours total and deleted it. Somewhere I'm on some proud list, I'm sure, of F2P "players who spend nothing to play", but if anyone said to my face, "you are a player of neverwinter", I'd punch them.

I laughed at the last part...and agree :)

I'm sure on some list you're also one of the 50 million ppl who have signed up for neverwinter!!!!! why don't you join them too!

PEople put way too much faith is stats when it comes to these things. Like how many subs a f2p game has...doesn't tell you how much money it's making. It doesn't include all the cash shop buys.

I'd like to see a "of the people that logged in in the last 30 days and played for more than .... 10 hours ( arbitrary number ) xx% of them spent money on the game. It will never happen though.

Actually as I understand it, stats similar to that are pretty regularly collected.  ARPPU and ARPU of the players that log in over a 15 or 30 day period. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17940

10/11/13 5:18:42 PM#47
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Voqar I kind of doubt your average player will drop $100/mo on any game.  Fools and their money are easily parted for sure, but the average player doesn't have the luxury to be that foolish with money.
agree

 

to use another ftp game comparison -- Puzzle Pirates

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4046/what_are_the_rewards_of_.php

 the average revenue per user (ARPU) is between one and two dollars a month, but only about 10% of his player base has ever paid him anything. As a result, he says, approximately 5,000 gamers are generating the $230,000 in revenue he sees each month.

 




So the people who are paying are paying $10 to $20 a month, probably something like $15 a month.

 

And there are always a very very small percentage of whales, who would pay a lot more.

 

  Beatnik59

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2060

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

10/11/13 5:50:54 PM#48
Originally posted by TiamatRoar

An employee of R2Games actually held a conference or presentation on this to explain things to investors (you can find the link to it if you search).

 

Basically, he listed the pros of "fishing for whales" (and yes, he called them "Whales", too) using a cash shop that gives power (IE, pay to win) as high profit margins, etc, and then he listed one of the cons as "shorter game life span".

 

In short, they KNOW they're compromising their game when they design a pay-2-win system that fishes for whales.  They also know that it's a drawback that shortens the life of the game. They just see it as an acceptable from a business standpoint.

 

(and yes, those whales exist. I know of people that spent OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND on a lame browser game).

 

Kinda makes one wonder why even bother spending time, money, and hopefully love creating a good subscription game when a stupid browser game (maybe) makes more money as long as it manages to hook a few whales.

I agree with your assessment.

These two things, the "fishing for whales" and the "shorter life span" is what is going to run this genre into the ground.  Because when these whales who are "fished" have their games closed down, after paying hundreds--if not thousands--of dollars on them, they might be reluctant to dive back full bore next time.

It has been one year since the CoH shutdown notice.  A lot of long time players didn't just get angry at NCSoft...they gave up on the whole damn genre.  And you know?  I don't blame 'em.  Why throw a ton of money and time into these things, only to have it all taken away at the stroke of an accountant's pen?

You've got to think that people aren't going to be fooled twice into throwing big time cash into these things, when they do, and they don't have anything to show for it when the things meet the publisher's target objectives and they are closed down.  Not when there are so many other good things that are available, that are cheaper and more enduring to throw money at.

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  Holophonist

Elite Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 1858

10/11/13 5:56:50 PM#49

I don't know how far this discussion has strayed from the OP but I feel like OP is right in saying that what he experienced is a condensed version of what we know about F2P.

 

I know the kind of games you're talking about and I agree. But it does feel like the F2P MMORPGs are looking for people to play more long term and *probably* spend less on average per month? As in, those little mobile games (or similar browser based games) are probably super addictive at first to the point where you'll drop a lot of money, but I bet you get sick of them much more quickly, learn your lesson and don't ever play another one again. Whereas with MMORPGs you may spend less and feel like it was less of a "mistake" when you're done.

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 3632

10/11/13 5:57:09 PM#50
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Mattatron

Great point. Do statistics (if they exist) of "average players" include people who downloaded the game, looked at it for 3 hours and uninstalled?

I "played" neverwinter mmo for maybe 3 hours total and deleted it. Somewhere I'm on some proud list, I'm sure, of F2P "players who spend nothing to play", but if anyone said to my face, "you are a player of neverwinter", I'd punch them.

I laughed at the last part...and agree :)

I'm sure on some list you're also one of the 50 million ppl who have signed up for neverwinter!!!!! why don't you join them too!

PEople put way too much faith is stats when it comes to these things. Like how many subs a f2p game has...doesn't tell you how much money it's making. It doesn't include all the cash shop buys.

I'd like to see a "of the people that logged in in the last 30 days and played for more than .... 10 hours ( arbitrary number ) xx% of them spent money on the game. It will never happen though.

Actually as I understand it, stats similar to that are pretty regularly collected.  ARPPU and ARPU of the players that log in over a 15 or 30 day period. 

Are they ever made public anywhere ? I'd like to see some. I think it'd be interesting to actually know rather than always just be guessing.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

10/11/13 6:21:02 PM#51
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Mattatron

Great point. Do statistics (if they exist) of "average players" include people who downloaded the game, looked at it for 3 hours and uninstalled?

I "played" neverwinter mmo for maybe 3 hours total and deleted it. Somewhere I'm on some proud list, I'm sure, of F2P "players who spend nothing to play", but if anyone said to my face, "you are a player of neverwinter", I'd punch them.

I laughed at the last part...and agree :)

I'm sure on some list you're also one of the 50 million ppl who have signed up for neverwinter!!!!! why don't you join them too!

PEople put way too much faith is stats when it comes to these things. Like how many subs a f2p game has...doesn't tell you how much money it's making. It doesn't include all the cash shop buys.

I'd like to see a "of the people that logged in in the last 30 days and played for more than .... 10 hours ( arbitrary number ) xx% of them spent money on the game. It will never happen though.

Actually as I understand it, stats similar to that are pretty regularly collected.  ARPPU and ARPU of the players that log in over a 15 or 30 day period. 

Pretty much the industry standard.

  Raph

MMO Designer

Joined: 9/11/06
Posts: 116

10/11/13 6:40:14 PM#52
Originally posted by lizardbones


The people I work with are spending a lot of money on this game. At least it looks like a lot of money to me. If the average person who's spending money on this game is spending upwards of a $100 a month

what incentive does the developer have to create game play for people like me, who are never going to spend that kind of money?

What if this is not only an instance of something, but a trend?

The average dollar amount spent per game is going to be fairly high,

 

I quotes a set of stuff here just to answer those points from the perspective of someone in the industry.

1) $100 a month is not that high. Many many MMO subscribers racked up that much. (Remember, the average accountholder actually held two and a half accounts during the 90s-2000's. I don't know the figure today). An MMO is a hobby. People with the income for it will gladly spend thousands a MONTH on a hobby.

This doesn't erase your core point, of course. I just wanted to point out that the scale goes much much higher than players tend to think.

2) The developer's incentive to create gameplay for you is actually large. They want as many people as possible to get into the game and get hooked enough to want to pay. So they want you to enjoy it enough (or be compelled/coerced enough) to stick with it long enough to make it a hobby. Another way to think of F2P is "we have to re-persuade the customer to buy every time they play." That means a compelling offering.

That said, the most reliable ways of doing that have had more to do with coercion than compelling gameplay, alas. There has also been little sense of the value of building long-lasting happy audiences. A great positive example is Angry Birds -- the basic gameplay is solid though not complex, and it's fun for a huge amount of people. They have become a powerful brand because all the parts are working together there. Coercive play doesn't tend to build loyal brands and customers.

3) Yes, of course it is a trend. More, it is a trend that has already won. The first thing to realize is that for better or worse, mobile gaming is now the template for all gaming business initiatives. Coming generations of devices take more cues from mobile than from PC or traditional consoles, in many ways. Next gen consoles are TV set top boxes. Next gen PC gaming (Steambox) is more a console. And next gen gaming on mobile devices will offer controllers (see Apple's MFi program controllers).

In the mobile market, for-pay games today ONLY work for niche titles or ones with massive marketing budgets. All other titles, and BY FAR the bulk of the revenue, comes from F2P. So all the business incentives are aligned towards that.

The F2P model was born out of MMOs for better or worse (in fact, I trace it to the UO rares market). So this is a case of sowing the wind and reaping the whirlwind.

4) As already mentioned, the average dollar amount was always higher. But there are some silver linings. A LOT more people are able to sample games, and enjoy them, in an F2P market. The price sensitivity threshold falls dramatically. As long as business practices can be held to an ethical standard, the news is not at all bad. After all, one way to look at it is that in the pay-up-front model, you ponied up $60 and didn't know whether the game would suck.

In the F2P model, the high rollers end up subsidizing the play of all the free players. This means that the average revenue per head can actually be dramatically lower than it was in the subscription or boxed game days. This is likely the more likely issue to arise from these circumstances, because it incentivizes that new content only be catered to payers. This, however, is not all that different from new content being catered to the max level players.

I just wanted you to have a better picture of the dynamics here. :)

  Raph

MMO Designer

Joined: 9/11/06
Posts: 116

10/11/13 6:54:27 PM#53

Oh, and there's a TON of sources out there for ARPU, ARPPU, % paying, etc. Typical figures cited are 1-5% of players active in trailing 30 days pay. The ARPPU (avg revenue per paying user) generally has a floor based on what price the publisher sets (e.g., if the cheapest thing you can buy is a pack of coins for $5, well, then the minimum is $5). The ARPU (which is the revenue divided by ALL the active users) varies by type of game and breadth of market, going from $1 up to well into the double digits.

A highly simplified set of examples:

Hypothetical sub game:

  • Actual size of audience who WANTED to play: 1m users.
  • Size of audience who then did (met price sensitivity threshold): 50k.
  • Paying audience: 50k users.
  • ARPPU: $15-$45 (multiple account holders push this up)
  • ARPU: $17? Somewhere in there.

Hypothetical f2p game:

  • Size of audience who wanted to play: 1m users.
  • Size who did: 1m.
  • Paying audience: 50k.
  • ARPPU: $5 to $5000
  • ARPU: very much depends on how many $5000 players vs $5 players you have.

 

 

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

10/11/13 7:00:37 PM#54
Great info, Raph. Thank you very much for posting this stuff!

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9943

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

 
OP  10/11/13 7:46:44 PM#55


Originally posted by Raph
Oh, and there's a TON of sources out there for ARPU, ARPPU, % paying, etc. Typical figures cited are 1-5% of players active in trailing 30 days pay. The ARPPU (avg revenue per paying user) generally has a floor based on what price the publisher sets (e.g., if the cheapest thing you can buy is a pack of coins for $5, well, then the minimum is $5). The ARPU (which is the revenue divided by ALL the active users) varies by type of game and breadth of market, going from $1 up to well into the double digits.

A highly simplified set of examples:

Hypothetical sub game:

  • Actual size of audience who WANTED to play: 1m users.
  • Size of audience who then did (met price sensitivity threshold): 50k.
  • Paying audience: 50k users.
  • ARPPU: $15-$45 (multiple account holders push this up)
  • ARPU: $17? Somewhere in there.Hypothetical f2p game: Size of audience who wanted to play: 1m users. Size who did: 1m. Paying audience: 50k. ARPPU: $5 to $5000 ARPU: very much depends on how many $5000 players vs $5 players you have.
 

 




Wow. If you are who you say you are (this is the internet after all), there are so many arguments you could settle around here. :-)

In any event, thanks for the info and the insight. It's always cool when someone from the industry posts stuff. It's also a nice reminder that behind the games are actual people, not hate filled trolls who want nothing more than to take money from our cold, dead fingers.

When you say a ton of sources, are you talking about a ton of sources for people like players or people like designers and developers. I feel certain that a few people here have searched for stuff like that, and other than Funcom, I haven't really seen a lot of information that was that specific.

Gah! So many questions!

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Raph

MMO Designer

Joined: 9/11/06
Posts: 116

10/11/13 7:51:27 PM#56

I think you may have a chance to ask me lots of questions soon. :) But I have been on here since 2006. So yeah, it is the real me. You can check my post history!

The sources are almost all for developers, but most of them are publicly posted. Just search around stuff like the GDC Vault free presentations, or Casual Connect (all the presentations are posted for free).

  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2156

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

10/11/13 7:54:59 PM#57
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Raph
Oh, and there's a TON of sources out there for ARPU, ARPPU, % paying, etc. Typical figures cited are 1-5% of players active in trailing 30 days pay. The ARPPU (avg revenue per paying user) generally has a floor based on what price the publisher sets (e.g., if the cheapest thing you can buy is a pack of coins for $5, well, then the minimum is $5). The ARPU (which is the revenue divided by ALL the active users) varies by type of game and breadth of market, going from $1 up to well into the double digits.

 

A highly simplified set of examples:

Hypothetical sub game:

  • Actual size of audience who WANTED to play: 1m users.
  • Size of audience who then did (met price sensitivity threshold): 50k.
  • Paying audience: 50k users.
  • ARPPU: $15-$45 (multiple account holders push this up)
  • ARPU: $17? Somewhere in there.Hypothetical f2p game: Size of audience who wanted to play: 1m users. Size who did: 1m. Paying audience: 50k. ARPPU: $5 to $5000 ARPU: very much depends on how many $5000 players vs $5 players you have.
 

 

 




Wow. If you are who you say you are (this is the internet after all), there are so many arguments you could settle around here. :-)

In any event, thanks for the info and the insight. It's always cool when someone from the industry posts stuff. It's also a nice reminder that behind the games are actual people, not hate filled trolls who want nothing more than to take money from our cold, dead fingers.

When you say a ton of sources, are you talking about a ton of sources for people like players or people like designers and developers. I feel certain that a few people here have searched for stuff like that, and other than Funcom, I haven't really seen a lot of information that was that specific.

Gah! So many questions!

 

He is. You don't get the "MMO Designer" tag by your name without a credential check.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9943

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

 
OP  10/11/13 8:03:03 PM#58


Originally posted by Holophonist
I don't know how far this discussion has strayed from the OP but I feel like OP is right in saying that what he experienced is a condensed version of what we know about F2P.

 

I know the kind of games you're talking about and I agree. But it does feel like the F2P MMORPGs are looking for people to play more long term and *probably* spend less on average per month? As in, those little mobile games (or similar browser based games) are probably super addictive at first to the point where you'll drop a lot of money, but I bet you get sick of them much more quickly, learn your lesson and don't ever play another one again. Whereas with MMORPGs you may spend less and feel like it was less of a "mistake" when you're done.




My post was pretty non-specific, and basically described a thought resulting from playing one game. It wouldn't be surprising if the topic has wandered. I'm always a little surprised and a pleased when a thread stays civil and as on topic as some of the ones I start get to do. It's usually right around the time that I comment on it that things go south though. Hmmm.

It really wasn't about F2P nearly as much as it was about how people feel about F2P. I think people play a few F2P MMORPGs and it's ok, cool even, but then they play one F2P game like the mobile games I've played, and it's such a departure from what they find acceptable, that the only response available is to grab a pitchfork. I think that's just how people respond to things like that. We have to. We can't keep checking out the red berries that made us puke our guts out for days because it would eventually kill us, so we have cautious reactions to the good F2P games in case they turn on us, and extreme reactions to the ones that make us "sick".

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9943

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

 
OP  10/11/13 8:07:27 PM#59


Originally posted by Raph
I think you may have a chance to ask me lots of questions soon. :) But I have been on here since 2006. So yeah, it is the real me. You can check my post history!

The sources are almost all for developers, but most of them are publicly posted. Just search around stuff like the GDC Vault free presentations, or Casual Connect (all the presentations are posted for free).




Cool. Thank you very much, sir.

Even cooler that we might get to pester an industry vet. :-)

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Aethaeryn

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/10
Posts: 1846

10/11/13 8:13:38 PM#60
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Voqar
I kind of doubt your average player will drop $100/mo on any game.  Fools and their money are easily parted for sure, but the average player doesn't have the luxury to be that foolish with money.

 

 

Obviously there ARE plenty of fools in the MMORPG world to keep crappy F2P MMORPGs afloat.  So you have to hope that designers would prefer to make good, quality games, instead of steaming piles of F2P crap.  ALL, and I mean ALL, F2P MMORPGs are crap.  F2P isn't an entirely horrible business model for SOME gaming genres, but it IS crap for MMORPGs, because the only way F2P can sustain an MMORPG is thru pay to win.  If you can buy even one piece of content that should be earned or anything like that, you've corrupted your game and the thing about MMORPGs is that moreso than in any other genre, the entire game is about earning stuff and making progress.  Even selling vanity clothing is lame in MMORPGs because it's something that SHOULD be obtained thru playing, not paying.

 




One person who spends $100 a month in a game is worth 6.6 regular subscribers. So if a game can get $100 a month, and has four times fewer people paying money, they would still be ahead of the curve.

Now, I don't know if this is a real thing or not. I think things are more complicated than my experience with one F2P mobile game, otherwise we wouldn't have two new major league games coming out that are going to charge a subscription. I'm just talking about how people feel about the F2P financial model in general and why that fear or dislike might exist. There has to be an "end game" to the F2P movement, and if that "end game" is something bad, then what is it? The cost rising to the point that most MMORPG players aren't wanted or needed is something bad for all those people.

 

But would they be? That figure only looks at one month. What about next month? Or every month thereafter? How many months in a row does someone spend $100.00? How many months before they walk away forever? I once calculated how much money I had spent on WoW over the years. It was up there.

Yeah but they simply rehash the same game with a different skin a few months later.  It works well enough.  Go to google play and look at the top grossing games.  Some of them have been up there for well over a year.  Some are reskins.

Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

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