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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » Where are all the tanks ?

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123 posts found
  Alamareth

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 591

10/11/13 11:25:46 AM#41
Originally posted by EvolvedMonky
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by Kaijin2k3

Not sure why some people are saying there's only one tank choice, as there's two.

But beyond that, I play a tank (leveling both), though mid 30s now. But I avoid DF like the plague, and stick to friends / LS mates / FC groups.

The times I did DF groups, I had Lancers changing all my marks and pulling, healers that sprint out to pull with sleep, archers going all out before I can even shield lob / tomahawk, summoners with pets amok, people who focus down as hard as they can on 3 while 1 and 2 are still alive, etc.

I don't mind when they're nice, but these people were not nice. "Asshole" was an understatement. My favorite are the people I met that throw tantrums when not everyone in the group skipped the cutscene.

So I avoid DF when I can, I truly do. And from what the 50s in my LS / FC talk about, this all gets worse at 50.

 

EDIT: I wanted to add, not all of that is unique to DPS. I've DF'd some on my MNK, and I've come to have seen some of the worst tanking I have ever witnessed in an MMO. And even saying something like, "I bet our WHM would love themselves some more Flash ^^;" (and yes, they were Paladins) brought out some serious diva action.

DF community, just x_x

Reason why people only reference one tank job is because there is only one tank job by end game.  Trying to do BCoB with two warriors is unreasonably difficult. 

Paladins are just flat out better.  I do like Warriors as offtanks though, they are easier for me to heal over a temporary period (Lustrate scales with HP).  However, their damage mitigation is nothing when compared to a paladin.  Caduceus will eventually rip apart a Warrior regardless of gear just due to RNG risk.

Thats weird most I hear in game and on fansite forums is the Warrior is the better tank.  Healers like em better and they also hold aggro vs multi mobs better. Pallys/Glads are better at single target aggro. But a War, hell even a MAR at low lvl has hate generating abilities plus they hit harder than Glads. And alot of the aggro abilities Glads have you can use em with MAR.

I was going to add a Tank job to my character but everyones a MAR and I couldnt get Glad past lvl 12 it was so boring. Checked out the internet to see if it gets better and from what I read Glads stay boring and at high lvl there just there for stun duty, WARs are the perfered Tanks.  And they play like DPS so there more popular, and more fun imo.

You should probably stop going to those fansites.  There is no question that the Warrior is by far the harder job to heal in any BCoB turn.  We aren't talking about sheer throughput, Warriors obviously buff that.  Even with fully decked Darklight, a Warrior will take upwards of 6k damage from the hardest Caduceus combo (not including Tail Swipe).  A paladin rarely take over 3k at the same gear level.

I will not bring a warrior to main tank anything BCoB.  It's too risky and their mitigation is just not there.  You want stability from your tank, not a massive HP that rockets from 80% to 20% in a couple of seconds.  Warriors are anything but stable.

For speed runs, yeah - maybe they have a slight edge.  Not that it's particularly noticeable.  I'd prefer the class that allows me, as a Scholar, to continuously DPS.  I'll drop more damage down than any Warrior.

They don't hold aggro better at all.  It's not worse and if there is any upside - it's unnecessary upside.  All you need from a tank is to hold aggro, not bomb aggro.

At no point in this game, under current patch settings, should a Warrior be preferred over a Paladin for a primary tanking role.  I do think there is a compelling argument to use them as offtanks.

  Edli

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/03/10
Posts: 842

10/11/13 11:40:40 AM#42
Originally posted by Phry

FFXIV only has one tank choice at low level, and thats the Gladiator.

I have both Marauder and Gladiator at lv 31 and I've run all the dungeons up to Hauke mannor countless times with both. No idea what you mean by that. Actually I much more prefer tanking with marauder. There is no chance in hell any DPS or healer can take agro away from me on multiple ads. It almost never happens. Much easier time with it than the gladiator which is better at 1vs1. 

Now I've heard that at the endgame gladiator (paladin) becomes the only choice to tank but on lower lv marauder (warrior) is better IMO. 

  ste2000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4723

10/11/13 11:48:53 AM#43
Originally posted by Grailer

Why does no one play tanks in these types of games ? I've been waiting for over an hour for a group on my dps.

 

I just don't understand why more people don't play tank class , is it hard or something ?

Do you play a tank?

If the answer is not, then you answered your question (which is that everyone else expect someone else to play it).

Park your DPS and start a tank, you'll find an instant group and other player will thank you because they will get a group faster..........

 

 

On another note the reason why noone play a tank (in every MMO) is because nobody likes to be bollocked every 10 seconds and being told how to play the role (generally by people that don't want to play a tank)

  Voqar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/04
Posts: 477

10/11/13 12:11:17 PM#44

I love tanking but I quit FFXIV because IT is boring.  Too generic and simplistic.  When I was playing I never fully pugged as a tank even once.  I ran with 2 friends (healer and quality dps) and we almost always grabbed a 4th from our FC.

 

This question always comes up and the answer is always the same.

 

Most people are lazy and don't want any kind of responsibility, so they play dps.  Path of least resistance.  Ie, fewer people play tanks.  Healing involves a bit less responsibility and is easier than tanking so healers, while less common than dps, end up being more common than tanks.

 

Those that DO play tanks can be selective about who they run with and are less likely to PUG.  They belong to guilds, or have friends, and otherwise PUG a lot less, which amplifies the "tank shortage."  This makes sense because why would you want to group with the worst of the worst - the people who can only get groups thru duty finder - when you could instead hand pick your team or run with regulars?

 

Tools like dungeon finders/duty finder don't guarantee you'll get groups or do anything at all to change the tank to everything else ratio, they just enable you to EVENTUALLY get a group without having to spam for one endlessly.

 

I really don't see how anyone can say tanking is boring compared to the other roles.  How is dpsing not boring?  It's more relaxing, it's easier, but more interesting?  Um, no.  Tanks have to do so much more, know so much more, and the entire group experience hinges on or is affected by the quality of tank.  Tanking is by far the most involved role in grouping.  That's why less people do it - most people either can't handle it or don't want that much to do.

 

 

 

Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  bronzephishy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/10/10
Posts: 57

10/11/13 12:12:09 PM#45
Originally posted by ste2000
Originally posted by Grailer

Why does no one play tanks in these types of games ? I've been waiting for over an hour for a group on my dps.

 

I just don't understand why more people don't play tank class , is it hard or something ?

Do you play a tank?

If the answer is not, then you answered your question (which is that everyone else expect someone else to play it).

Park your DPS and start a tank, you'll find an instant group and other player will thank you because they will get a group faster..........

 

 

On another note the reason why noone play a tank (in every MMO) is because nobody likes to be bollocked every 10 seconds and being told how to play the role (generally by people that don't want to play a tank)

^this +1

 

  Arthasm

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/09
Posts: 660

10/11/13 12:17:35 PM#46
Originally posted by ste2000

On another note the reason why noone play a tank (in every MMO) is because nobody likes to be bollocked every 10 seconds and being told how to play the role (generally by people that don't want to play a tank)

+100

And that comes from peop... idiots who play game by watching yt/twitch videos, reading guides, not even own single brain cell used to learn their class.

 

  Edli

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/03/10
Posts: 842

10/11/13 12:36:45 PM#47
Originally posted by Voqar

I really don't see how anyone can say tanking is boring compared to the other roles.  How is dpsing not boring? 

 

Oh I agree. I consider the archer to be the most boring class on a dungeon. I basically just stay there behind with the healer and just spam the same skill rotation over and over again, maybe some red area triggers in my foots once in a while and I move to the side a bit. That's the most exiting part.

I usually lv those classes with FATEs and I'm levelling my tanks mostly with dungeon runs. 

  Dr_Shivinski

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 193

10/11/13 12:40:40 PM#48
Originally posted by Grailer

Why does no one play tanks in these types of games ? I've been waiting for over an hour for a group on my dps.

 

I just don't understand why more people don't play tank class , is it hard or something ?

I haven't read the whole thread so excuse me if I am repeating some but ; Plays DPS, bitches about no tanks, doesn't just become a fucking tank and quit bitching. 10/10

Here Siggy Siggy!

  Havekk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/14/08
Posts: 1360

10/11/13 12:41:50 PM#49
Yeah, I don't get it. I see a shit TON of Paladins everywhere I go.. So much so that it actually turned me off from making one. Yet it still takes forever to find one for a group on the duty finder. I try not to use that thing in the first place. I can usually get a group going with folks from my FC.
  sudo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/23/05
Posts: 698

10/11/13 12:41:50 PM#50

< Tank.

Playing Skyrim. Less time consuming, more fun, MUCH better community (AI), better combat (heavily modded).

"Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted.
Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world."
Hans Margolius

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

10/11/13 12:43:01 PM#51
Originally posted by apocoluster

My IS-7 is in the shop 

right now getting detailed had a bad dust up at

Malinovka. =)

 

lol awesome. I thought the same thing when I saw the thread title.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  Homitu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2036

10/11/13 12:45:11 PM#52
It's pretty obvious that a 1:1:2 tank:heal:dps ratio is nowhere close to representative of the actual breakdown of player roles, yet that's what FFXIV requires of its players.  They expect 25% of players to be tanks.  Good luck with that.
  Alamareth

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 591

10/11/13 12:54:12 PM#53
Originally posted by Homitu
It's pretty obvious that a 1:1:2 tank:heal:dps ratio is nowhere close to representative of the actual breakdown of player roles, yet that's what FFXIV requires of its players.  They expect 25% of players to be tanks.  Good luck with that.

No luck required.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/000506.html

Don't let your ignorance show too much.

  Ecoces

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 795

10/11/13 12:56:48 PM#54

people don't play tanks because 1) they don't want the responsbility and 2) they don't want to be yelled at by every other character in the group ... especially the whiney DPSers.

 

I use to play tanks in EVERY mmorpg i got into then i played EQ2 and at the start it was ok however later when "speed runs" started to become more prominent is when it got frustrating. THEN i played WoW and after that experience i refused to play a tank ever again.

 

as i told my guildies I will just play a faceroll DPS like everyone else.

  kreken

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/06/05
Posts: 138

Today people are much cheaper than their clothes.

10/11/13 1:05:51 PM#55

I am leveling GLA tank, level 28 at the moment (rerolled from WHM). Before level 24, my queue time was around 15 minutes. After 24, it is instant. Why?

A lot of people start tanks but quit in the early twenties for the following reasons:

1. Lack of thick skin to deal with douchebags. Some people bother too much about what some random dude on the internet thinks.

2. Don't want the responsibility. Nothing wrong with that. I knew a fighter pilot who played Eve; all he did was mining.

3. Lack of tools to generate threat. Before you get Rage of Halone at level 26, threat generation is fucking tedious. Every time I saw a lancer or a pugalist in the group, I cringed. If they didn't watch their agro, and most of them didn't, forget about taking agro back from them. It was an exercise in frustration to some extent.

Off topic a bit but what's up with lancers? It's like this class is retard magnet. It's very rarely that you see a decent lancer who doesn't tunnel vision and is aware of the environment.

  skeaser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 3687

Don't die mad, just die.

10/11/13 1:19:17 PM#56
I've got a FFXIV gladiator and I am not fond of it. Tanking is very boring combat-wise and the random groups make it worse. Nothing worse than an archer who gets mad that he got killed after he nukes an entire group before I get a swing in and then doesn't understand why I didn't magically get aggro right away.


A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

  Kaijin2k3

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/28/08
Posts: 546

10/11/13 1:24:12 PM#57
Originally posted by Alamareth
snip snip (to avoid quote pyramid)

Coil is but one thing out of the entire game. There are two tanks in the game, both viable for everything except Coil even though I agree that PLDs are the better tanks in general.

I know they have issues in coil, but I doubt most people are capable of even starting it atm.

  free2play

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1793

10/11/13 2:06:52 PM#58
Originally posted by ZizouX

I have both Warrior and Paladin at 50.  I also have Whm at 50 along with dps classes at 50 as well.

 

From my experience, tanking is the most "draining" job.  There's no "cruising" mode even for farmed content because if you use the DF, you get a different group dynamic each time.   I have to mark targets only to see the DPS ignore them.  I have to take the FULL debuff from a boss/mob only to see a healer not Esuna or Leeches.

 

I have to look at each group member to see if they've agroed.  I try to skip mobs only to see people behind me agro the mobs we were about to skip. 

 

On the flip side, it's a very rewarding and satisfying job.  You have the biggest influence on the success of a run, more so than a healer.  It is my personal belief that a Very good tank can complete content with a mediocre healer.  You can have an excellent healer but will only get so far ifyour tank can't hold agro on more than one mob, or can't increase his threat/enmity level on a boss to allow the DPS to go full out.  I thnk a very good tank raises the threshold for potential excellence in a run than any other class.  A healer can compensate for a tanks shortcommings but a healer cannot elevate a group as much as an excellent tank can.  That's purely based on class design and the trinity system.

 

When I heal dungeons, especially ones i've done 40+ times (AK) it's much more relaxing and "cruise" mode than tanking.  Tanking always requires that you are paying attention to your threat, what other party members are doing, maintaining agro on multiple mobs, avoiding red things on the ground, popping cooldowns situationally.  DPS has a far narrower roll and healing becomes much easier the better gear you get.

 

On the flipside, some encounters in this game are FAR harder on healers and DPS than the tank (I'm looking at you TITAN HM!), so I guess it goes both ways.

 

TLDR:  Tanking is a thankless job with a lot of responsibility.  You can never really "rest" during a run.  Healing is not as stressful for most content other than Titan HM.  DPS has a narrow roll in a party and less responsibility to effectuate the outcome.

I have very limited experience in grouping in this game but one of the things I tried to do was make myself as useful as possible. I used the AoE heal as little as possible because I knew it was an aggro magnet. Keeping a tank up is a side show for most content. I tried the first few times to look for debuffs but they don't put it on the target bar , only in the group bar when someone has a stat effect. That's fine because I kind of need to look at both bars when I am healing anyway with all the AoE nukes they use in FF14. When stat effects do happen it's after a big hit and GCD force a healer to be healing. If you are dazed or stunned, by the time I cast Esuna, it's gone.

 

I've also tried do cast some DoT on to mobs and even 2 cycles of GCD and the poor tank can be at 40% health so they can't tank for shit. They are just aggro magnets. It isn't that they aren't playing the class. It's that they can't. Cookie cutter, duty finder groups are just another example of no imagination in how they designed the content.

 

Last Note: The last two dungeons I did, we were waiting on dps. The truth is, they made dungeons in this game an experiment in sucking, as any class. Unless forced, people are doing Fates. Not just to level but for seals that you need in the thousands for them to be useful when you get them a few hundred per event you participate in.

  Kaijin2k3

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/28/08
Posts: 546

10/11/13 2:22:05 PM#59
Originally posted by free2play

That's fine because I kind of need to look at both bars when I am healing anyway with all the AoE nukes they use in FF14. When stat effects do happen it's after a big hit and GCD force a healer to be healing. If you are dazed or stunned, by the time I cast Esuna, it's gone.

I don't know which instances you've done, but in some fights on the later ones, it's the stacking poison that does the real damage.

An example is Brayflox (L32). Removing the poison debuff that the first boss does can be more useful than trying to Cure through it.

  Grailer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 819

 
OP  10/11/13 3:56:31 PM#60
Originally posted by Beelzebobbie
Originally posted by Grailer

Why does no one play tanks in these types of games ? I've been waiting for over an hour for a group on my dps.

 

I just don't understand why more people don't play tank class , is it hard or something ?

Why don't you play tank?

I do play a tank ,  I have a l   L50 warrior and a L41 Paladin which I both have levelled up mainly doing Dungeons for XP.

 

I get instant que with those roles but when I switch to my DPS classes I wait forever which is annoying since I hate doing FATES and don't have any quests left .  I should've just made a new character for DPS to get the quest xp .

 

When I do actually get a dungeon , the tank omg , well lets just say this one tank stood before some mobs and asked group "what do I do  ? "     I think he was PS3 player because of the way he turned so slowly .

 

 

 

 

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