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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Star Wars: The Old Republic: Not Quite Jump to Lightspeed, But I’ll Take It

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82 posts found
  lugal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/13/08
Posts: 576

10/10/13 2:13:43 PM#61
EA had nothing to do with the poor game design. Just look at the timeline of when bioware started the developement and when EA moved in. This is all bioware's choice. Their arrogance in assuming they know better and ignoring the testers, was all them.

Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  CrazKanuk

Elite Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 1243

10/10/13 2:24:54 PM#62
Originally posted by lugal
EA had nothing to do with the poor game design. Just look at the timeline of when bioware started the developement and when EA moved in. This is all bioware's choice. Their arrogance in assuming they know better and ignoring the testers, was all them.

 

I think that you're making the assumption that by the time that testers were poking at the game that anything could be done to rectify whatever design errors were made. It was waaaaaay too late. I also don't think that it was arrogance at all. If anything I would say that it was a lack of arrogance that drove their design decisions. They decided that WoW is the most popular MMO and it's maintaining millions of subscribers where no others have. Soooooooo....... WoW must be doing something right. Right? 

 

If they were being arrogant, I think that they would have tried to re-invent the entire industry. That didn't happen at all. It's obvious that they were creating a game to appeal to the masses. Mission accomplished, it's got a decent number of subscribers and it's been running for a while now. 

 

IMO they actually did exactly what they intended to do. I'm really sorry, but I'm fairly certain they weren't looking to deliver SWG 2. Fact of the matter is that SWG failed, so they may have thought that there wasn't a market for it. I still think that the market segment that wants an SWG game is smaller than that which wants a SWTOR game. When you have a price tag like SWTOR, that smaller niche segment of the market simply isn't going to cut it. 

Crazkanuk

----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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  Drakephire

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 381

10/10/13 2:25:57 PM#63

Makes sense. PvP is cheap content to make, and especially in outer space.  I'm guessing a quarter of the staff needed to make PvE.  

Glad I know this before hand. Won't be playing it.

 
  Drakephire

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 381

10/10/13 2:31:27 PM#64
and let me add for the record that I predicted SWTOR evolution into a fancy MOBA a while back.  Essentially all that is released these days for content are arenas.  What a sad state of affairs.
  iJustWant

Novice Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 82

10/10/13 2:42:16 PM#65
Originally posted by Bluefear77

  If the game wasn't for you, which is ok and I can understand, move on already. 

 

Totally agree. But sadly, this is an increasingly popular trend.

 

Players don't stop playing games anymore when they're done playing. It's all about complaining to the entire world, listing all the reasons why the game failed, why the game would have been the best game ever (if only the Devs had listened to the Complaints), and to continue the complaining like it's some twisted form of a game in itself.

  DocBrody

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1527

10/10/13 2:58:28 PM#66

Hooray it's another Moonbreaker/Star Conflict, whoop-deedoo

No big universe to explore

No cockpits

No PvE campaigns like in X-Wing

meh, I'll pass and wait for X Rebirth, Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous

 

quote from the article

" The SSSP turned out to be far more narrow in scope than I’d have liked to see"

-> should be the tagline for the whole game

"SWTOR - far more narrow in scope than expected"

  hikaru77

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 983

10/10/13 3:34:29 PM#67
Originally posted by Bluefear77

The responses in this thread are ridiculous. People complaining about a game that they don't even play (or haven't played in two years). People attacking  a game with arguments that don't even make sense. People desperately looking to complain about something (yes, many of the complaints and attacks are desperate). 

The game is adding content. They are calling it an expansion because it is adding an entirely new feature to the game. But it is not a true expansion in the historical sense. Which is fine with me because they are not charging for the expansion. There will be content updates to this new feature in the future. What those updates will include and the quality of those updates we don't know. Hopefully, the game will add space PVE with this new feature in the future (and I expect they will).

All the haters for this game really need to move on. The game has been out for two years and hasn't failed like you so desperately wanted. The game's servers are busy and the game has seen regular quality updates (more quality updates than almost any other MMO in the last two years). So trying to claim the game is dead is wrong.  If the game wasn't for you, which is ok and I can understand, move on already. 

hater need something to hate, is easy like that, and sad from a point of view.  the SSSP is coming and pretty much all the real players of swtor cant wait to play it, even when if just PvP once the system is in game it will have PvE updates and more. Almost 2 years of swtor and the is good and growing with everysingle new update, Thats a Fact.  

  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

10/10/13 3:49:34 PM#68
Originally posted by iJustWant
Originally posted by Bluefear77

  If the game wasn't for you, which is ok and I can understand, move on already. 

Totally agree. But sadly, this is an increasingly popular trend.

Players don't stop playing games anymore when they're done playing. It's all about complaining to the entire world, listing all the reasons why the game failed, why the game would have been the best game ever (if only the Devs had listened to the Complaints), and to continue the complaining like it's some twisted form of a game in itself.

 The sad part is you youngsters that weren't a part of the days when good MMOs were coming out left and right...during the time when beta testers actually worked closely with the game makers and help shape the design of the game. You know, what Richard Garriott is doing RIGHT NOW with Shroud of the Avatar...bringing back the GOOD MMOs with things PLAYERS actually think is good and not just non-game playing designers working for a corporation focused only on money.

Remember reading about corpse runs in EQ1? Camping? Actual GOOD crafting? Heavy focus on grouping? All came from beta 1 testers. EQ was not focused heavily on grouping and had bad crafting during early beta 1, I remember the damn conversations with the developers and the questions they were asking us.

Ever read about portal system in Asherons Call? If not, the very reason why MMOs have a recall/bind ability now is due to that game which got its idea from BETA TESTERS who came up with the idea, a spell/ability that allows you to bind to a point and return to it. Just one of MANY ideas implemented from companies that listened to players. Hell, its because of that game that games like SWG had such a varied UI and why WoW and other games allowed custom addons, it was the first game to have a massive modding community that made the game so much better to the point Turbine started working directly with them.

But, no doubt you at some point complain about how the genre is stagnant and there are too many clones...well, there are your designers going with what THEY THINK YOU LIKE...

  jpnz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

10/10/13 4:02:19 PM#69
Did you just agree with a poster that was comparing a VIDEO GAME with real life TOTURE?
Really?!!!
I know people have this irrational hatred for SWTOR but... jeez...

/facepalm

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Masonic1

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/12
Posts: 47

10/10/13 4:34:40 PM#70
Originally posted by hikaru77
Originally posted by Bluefear77

The responses in this thread are ridiculous. People complaining about a game that they don't even play (or haven't played in two years). People attacking  a game with arguments that don't even make sense. People desperately looking to complain about something (yes, many of the complaints and attacks are desperate). 

The game is adding content. They are calling it an expansion because it is adding an entirely new feature to the game. But it is not a true expansion in the historical sense. Which is fine with me because they are not charging for the expansion. There will be content updates to this new feature in the future. What those updates will include and the quality of those updates we don't know. Hopefully, the game will add space PVE with this new feature in the future (and I expect they will).

All the haters for this game really need to move on. The game has been out for two years and hasn't failed like you so desperately wanted. The game's servers are busy and the game has seen regular quality updates (more quality updates than almost any other MMO in the last two years). So trying to claim the game is dead is wrong.  If the game wasn't for you, which is ok and I can understand, move on already. 

hater need something to hate, is easy like that, and sad from a point of view.  the SSSP is coming and pretty much all the real players of swtor cant wait to play it, even when if just PvP once the system is in game it will have PvE updates and more. Almost 2 years of swtor and the is good and growing with everysingle new update, Thats a Fact.  

really?

so far I've logged into Jung Ma and Ebon Hawk both Pub and Imp and know what the fleet chat is saying? to sum it up no one likes it and it's not anything people wanted.

the fact is tor has been the biggest failure in gaming history rather then do what the mmo community has been wanting from the very start all we have gotten is lied too, bad systems, bad gameplay. and a bunch of you kids who don't know how great mmo's used to be.

do you know in swg pre-cu we had weekend long battles both on ground and in space? do you know in ultima online the world was once filled with danger and made your heartbeat fast anytime you went out of town? do you know what it was like working on getting your crafting up and seeing someone tell you they come to you for their armor weapons and whatever cuz you are the best? or how awesome it was to 'unlock' something like jedi?

what do we have now? oh we have raids and dungeon content. swg and uo had dungeons and they where open with no bosses or any of that you went down in them and just had fun with your friends not grind out loot. we had open world pvp that had people building their own templates and fighting for control over towns and areas. where's that in tor?

tor is everything thats wrong with mmo's it's a pay to win game that doesn't offer any freedom. and news flash games like tor are going away. players are waking up and hearing stories about how great swg and uo had been and that's what the community wants.

  DocBrody

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1527

10/10/13 4:45:15 PM#71
Originally posted by hikaru77
Originally posted by Bluefear77

The responses in this thread are ridiculous. People complaining about a game that they don't even play (or haven't played in two years). People attacking  a game with arguments that don't even make sense. People desperately looking to complain about something (yes, many of the complaints and attacks are desperate). 

The game is adding content. They are calling it an expansion because it is adding an entirely new feature to the game. But it is not a true expansion in the historical sense. Which is fine with me because they are not charging for the expansion. There will be content updates to this new feature in the future. What those updates will include and the quality of those updates we don't know. Hopefully, the game will add space PVE with this new feature in the future (and I expect they will).

All the haters for this game really need to move on. The game has been out for two years and hasn't failed like you so desperately wanted. The game's servers are busy and the game has seen regular quality updates (more quality updates than almost any other MMO in the last two years). So trying to claim the game is dead is wrong.  If the game wasn't for you, which is ok and I can understand, move on already. 

hater need something to hate, is easy like that, and sad from a point of view.  the SSSP is coming and pretty much all the real players of swtor cant wait to play it

they could play Star Conflict or Moonbreakers since 2012, cause that's exactly the type of MOBA which BW ripped off. 

 

  Tierless

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2114

joie de vivre

10/10/13 4:50:01 PM#72

Much like everything in this game it just doesn't live up to the potential does it? I came in thinking, ok, maybe this will be done right. Maybe it will be even a little like JTLS...no. Once again I'm disappointed.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Tierless

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2114

joie de vivre

10/10/13 4:52:54 PM#73
Originally posted by Jerek_
the sad thing is that asking for these guys to match the quality of an expansion that released nine years ago for a game that eventually failed is asking for to much.

This

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  cura

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 869

10/10/13 4:55:32 PM#74

JTL was anemic crap designed with 90 years old players in mind. Everything was slow beyound believe. Not to mention arcade controlls which made it even more lame. The only good thing about it was multiplayer ships and interstellar travel but the latter had no real purpose.

Its not hard to be better then that but its BW so i doubt they will deliver.

 

 

  orionblack

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/25/09
Posts: 396

10/10/13 5:01:34 PM#75
Originally posted by ScorpionOne

     I consider myself a Star Wars fan.  I loved all Star Wars games.  I think my favorites were Tie Fighter, X-Wing Alliance, KoToR, X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter.  Those games were...just amazing.  And I can see the back and forth about Star Wars Galaxies here.  But for me, personally, I loved Star Wars Galaxies.  I loved Jump to Lightspeed.  Why?  Because to me, it felt so immersive.  It felt like someone really cared about the game and made it to be the Star Wars I always remembered.  Story.  Action.  Romance.  And I'm probably the only one that feels that way, and that's fine.  Many of you might call what I saw as "Rose Tinted Glasses".  But that is what it felt to me, agree or disagree is your peragotive.  But the games felt....like real effort was put into them despite their bugs.  Mind you that doesn't excuse them.

 

     I wanted to really like TOR.  I played, leveled through the story and liked the story quite a bit.  But after I got to end game, and seeing what I saw, a game that in the end had no heart to it.   It wasn't the quality I had come to know.  And yes, I know.  Bioware is dead and gone only being a name slapped on a label, in essence paying for the name only.  But I guess it's a question I pose in response to the article.  Why should we take it?  Why should we as customers take a half-a**ed product and be happy with that alone?  Why should we reward poor effort?  If I only did a half-a**ed job, I certainly wouldn't be rewarded for it, I would be fired as my client would not pay for poor effort. 

 

     In my eyes, Galactic Starfighter is very much very poor effort.  It's only one side of the game.  PvP,  which I don't do.  Now I know what many of you will say: "Vote with your wallet then and move on." And believe me, I've done that already.  I'm not spewing hate for the game.  But I am expressing my disappointment and direction that EA has taken with SWTOR.  And I don't speak for everyone, I never pretend to.  But in no way, shape or form should we ever accept a half done job and just expect to "Take it".  And it should never be rewarded.

 

     If a developer/publisher is not going to put effort into their products, then don't sell them or the service for them.  Basic economics.

 

 

Have to agree with this guy..I myself am a HUGE Star Wars fan....How many peeps you know willing to shell out 60$ for 2 SW figures (Revan and Malek in case your wondering) , what I don't understand so far from the white knights is , According to this site and many others..PVP content is NOT wanted by the vast majority ?? So I myself can only see this as succeeding for a bit. 

Only way I would come back to the game is if the actually worked on what the have already i:e, crafting (let's face it when all you are crafting that is any worth are mods and certain stims...it has to be reworked) , actual new content..not dailies or freaking raids which are quickly becoming a gear check...yeah go ahead and prove me wrong on it. What's that ? They added a new planet? Let me guess...gots dailies on it doesn't it?And an op or two.... Did it advance your class story? Did it advance your story in any way?

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

10/10/13 5:02:26 PM#76
Originally posted by Jerek_
the sad thing is that asking for these guys to match the quality of an expansion that released nine years ago for a game that eventually failed is asking for to much.

Indeed. How sad. :(

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  hikaru77

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 983

10/10/13 5:04:31 PM#77
Originally posted by Masonic1
Originally posted by hikaru77
Originally posted by Bluefear77

The responses in this thread are ridiculous. People complaining about a game that they don't even play (or haven't played in two years). People attacking  a game with arguments that don't even make sense. People desperately looking to complain about something (yes, many of the complaints and attacks are desperate). 

The game is adding content. They are calling it an expansion because it is adding an entirely new feature to the game. But it is not a true expansion in the historical sense. Which is fine with me because they are not charging for the expansion. There will be content updates to this new feature in the future. What those updates will include and the quality of those updates we don't know. Hopefully, the game will add space PVE with this new feature in the future (and I expect they will).

All the haters for this game really need to move on. The game has been out for two years and hasn't failed like you so desperately wanted. The game's servers are busy and the game has seen regular quality updates (more quality updates than almost any other MMO in the last two years). So trying to claim the game is dead is wrong.  If the game wasn't for you, which is ok and I can understand, move on already. 

hater need something to hate, is easy like that, and sad from a point of view.  the SSSP is coming and pretty much all the real players of swtor cant wait to play it, even when if just PvP once the system is in game it will have PvE updates and more. Almost 2 years of swtor and the is good and growing with everysingle new update, Thats a Fact.  

really?

so far I've logged into Jung Ma and Ebon Hawk both Pub and Imp and know what the fleet chat is saying? to sum it up no one likes it and it's not anything people wanted.

the fact is tor has been the biggest failure in gaming history rather then do what the mmo community has been wanting from the very start all we have gotten is lied too, bad systems, bad gameplay. and a bunch of you kids who don't know how great mmo's used to be.

do you know in swg pre-cu we had weekend long battles both on ground and in space? do you know in ultima online the world was once filled with danger and made your heartbeat fast anytime you went out of town? do you know what it was like working on getting your crafting up and seeing someone tell you they come to you for their armor weapons and whatever cuz you are the best? or how awesome it was to 'unlock' something like jedi?

what do we have now? oh we have raids and dungeon content. swg and uo had dungeons and they where open with no bosses or any of that you went down in them and just had fun with your friends not grind out loot. we had open world pvp that had people building their own templates and fighting for control over towns and areas. where's that in tor?

tor is everything thats wrong with mmo's it's a pay to win game that doesn't offer any freedom. and news flash games like tor are going away. players are waking up and hearing stories about how great swg and uo had been and that's what the community wants.

So how the biggest failure in the gaming history is still alive after 2 years?.  all we have is some sandbox lovers crying because SWTOR is not SWG2, live with it EA and BW have a 10 years contract with disney. 

  jbombard

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/06/08
Posts: 473

10/10/13 8:02:03 PM#78
[mod edit]
  Masonic1

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/12
Posts: 47

10/11/13 3:08:30 AM#79
Originally posted by jbombard
Originally posted by hikaru77
Originally posted by Masonic1
Originally posted by maxima29
The desperation in the haters is amazing. Its actually getting entertaining watching them squirm as the are starting to realize swtor is not going away anytime soon. They have put so much time and effort trying to pass as many lies and misinformation as possible and their efforts have failed. These desperate haters just need to move on.

what desperation? last i saw tor is losing players at a fast rate and people are screaming for a return of swg.

¨tor is losing players at a fast rate¨  http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/stats  . Yes you are right, Wait no!!, the population is growing in all the servers, but we should believe you. Haters need to move on!!!.

 

Well I don't think either of you have enough information to make a definitive statement either way.  TOR Status doesn't show a long enough period to indicate any kind of trend, and the amount of change shown is so small that it is likely smaller than the margin of error.  

 

Also the number of people playing is not necessarily indicative of the health of the game.  The number of subscribers would be one factor, another would be the number of players who made a purchase in the past month.  Unless somebody has those numbers one persons guess is as good as another.

 

I do just go look at the tor forums. Or better yet look around here.

do you see anyone other then the fanbois saying this looks cool? Or this is something the players wanted? No what I'm seeing are tons of people who are at their wits end supporting a game that doesn't give back anything to them. and that's the fault with the modern mmo, the dev's no longer care about what the players want rather they go about making whatever marketing tells them. no I take that back it's the fault with modern gaming as a whole.

this is why sandbox games like EQ:Next and Wildstar are already starting to look huge and tor is slowly being sunset. this is why microsoft is barely seeing xbox ones and sony is putting the xbox one into the ground with the ps4. people want complex games, people want games that if you put the time into them you get rewarded. not click on a few things and get a you win.

want the proof that tor is dying? go look at the role play community. rp communities tend to be the most loyal communities any mmo will have and so far the rp community has said they are leaving tor thanks to this.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5342

10/11/13 3:36:43 AM#80
Originally posted by Elikal
Originally posted by Jerek_
the sad thing is that asking for these guys to match the quality of an expansion that released nine years ago for a game that eventually failed is asking for to much.

Indeed. How sad. :(

It is, when SWG went down the proverbial with the NGE, it was the JTL part of the game that kept a good many still playing - it was relatively untouched by the changes made to the game by the NGE, for a very good reason, JTL was actually very good, that each ship was modular in design was totally awesome, how you modded your ship to suit your style, juggling armour, shields, weapons, speed, was also a huge factor, and it had some pretty good PVE gameplay too. Much as i would wish this new 'space game' to be on a par with JTL i just don't see it, it really does not hold a candle to the original, and for such an old game, it really is sad that they don't seem to be able, even now, to be able to do as well, let alone better, given that EA has the licencing to pretty much do as they please with Star Wars, is the reason why they can't due to a lack of will or a lack of capability from the game engine itself? 

either way, 'these arent the droids we were looking for'

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