Trending Games | The Crew | Landmark | Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor | WildStar

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,850,800 Users Online:0
Games:732  Posts:6,224,139
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » why older games seem better...

21 Pages First « 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 » Last Search
404 posts found
  Grixxitt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/12
Posts: 556

10/10/13 8:57:09 AM#141
Would just like to point out that most of the people that disagree with the OP are actually younger than him. 

The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)

-The MMO Forum Community

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10567

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

10/10/13 11:28:24 AM#142

The idea that people become less capable of adapting and get stuck in their ways as they get older is a misconception. Psychologies and researchers have known it's a misconception since the mid twentieth century.


From just one study (there are many others that come to the same conclusions):
http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=198874




“...shows that improving cognitive functioning in seniors actually changes an aspect of their personality, namely openness to experience...

“'The common assumption about personality is that it is hard-wired and won’t change, but this study contradicts that quite strongly,' said Brent Roberts, professor in the department of psychology at the University of Illnois at Urbana-Champaign and co-author of study.”




Whatever the reasons for "rose tinted glasses", an inability to adapt to new things because of age isn't one.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

10/10/13 12:09:49 PM#143
Originally posted by Scot
 

MMOs got caught in the trap of trying to look as good as solo games. Originally no one cared they were a step behind, but in order to lure in the solo crowd graphics became king. This resulted in a stripped down approach, taking away starter areas or making them quite small and so on. Then they changed open worlds into rat runs.

The audience size was certainly a factor, but it was also who they were aiming at. When they wanted to expand into the solo market, they had to make their games more solo. Now they are pandering to the values of the social media crowd. EQNext had a question on should characters be account based, that sort of question comes from wanting to make Facebook and Twitter uses feel at home. The impact on MMO gaming of going for social media types will be quite different from when they chased the solos. That was a clash of gaming ethos, now they are chasing those who have no gaming ethos. But this new market already has a cash shop mentality bedded in, so you can expect even more commercialisation.

Buying top level characters and gear (like in EQ2) is where MMOs are now headed.

yeah .. that is probably where MMOs are going to go. It is not a "trap" though. That is how markets work.

It is really too bad (for me). I like solo-centric MMOs much more than "social media" MMOs. The good news is that i have tons of alternatives in entertainment so if all MMOs go facebook, i will just move on (not that i am not used to moving on from specific games anyway).

 

  Hothlove

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 52

10/10/13 12:14:37 PM#144
Oh no not old everquest, 5 minutes to zone, stuttering sound and everything camped.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

10/10/13 12:24:17 PM#145
Originally posted by Hothlove
Oh no not old everquest, 5 minutes to zone, stuttering sound and everything camped.

Yeah .. very horrible game (to me).

I wouldn't take a game designed like that with a ten foot pole in the future.

 

  vandal5627

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/04/12
Posts: 318

10/10/13 12:28:51 PM#146
Originally posted by thecapitaine

MMOs seem better because they were novel experiences for many of us and were born at a time when the bounds of the internet were measurably closer, when the number of offerings was far smaller, when social media was virtually non-existent, and before gaming (particularly console gaming) exploded into what it is now.  For me it's like asking why haven't we had another proper Woodstock (despite later attempts) to recapture that experience.  Sure, we still have great musicians, plenty of motivated young people, and ample venues but having all the parts just isn't enough to reproduce that event. 

 

I can't emphasize enough how often this or very similar questions are posed in every artistic genre we humans are capable of.  You cannot talk movies, television, music, literature, theater, art, dance, or journalism without running into it.  There will always be a group of "veterans" who likely got their first or early exposure at a time they now consider to be the apex of the form, the high point that all subsequent efforts fail to reach.  It's such a common occurrence and transcends so many bounds that we have to start questioning its validity and whether it's just a basic part of human existence.  Either across the board, in nearly every facet of human endeavor, we are simply becoming less talented, less inspired, less capable and discerning.  Or, there's a strong predilection towards mythologizing what came before despite our best efforts at seeing things clearly. 

 

I'm greatly inclined to believe it's the latter.

 

This....I fall into the same thing all the time but when i think clearly, I'm just living in the past, rose tinted glass is what people call it.

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3266

Poacher killer.

10/10/13 12:42:48 PM#147
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Hothlove
Oh no not old everquest, 5 minutes to zone, stuttering sound and everything camped.

Yeah .. very horrible game (to me).

I wouldn't take a game designed like that with a ten foot pole in the future.

 

You played that game for a year, bud. People DO NOT stick around that long if they are not enjoying themselves. So you don't get to say you thought that EQ was a "horrible" game.

Life is much more rewarding when you're honest with the people you interact with and more importantly, honest with yourself.

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  Lynxeyed

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/03
Posts: 76

10/10/13 12:45:57 PM#148
I feel like there is no sense of accomplishment I remember it took me 400 hours to hit level 50 on my scout in DAOC I was proud i finished him. or SWG I was proud that i was the first master doctor on the server. If its easy for everyone there is no pride in what your doing.
  MuffinStump

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/03
Posts: 475

10/10/13 12:53:10 PM#149

In essence much of this argument at its core is not about the capacity for the older gamer to adapt to 'advancement' in the industry or whether the genre itself has advanced at all. What it really comes down to is whether you support the ongoing argument that engaged criticism of any kind toward art/architecture/music is simply subjective.

An art critic who has an established eye for detail, an understanding of art history and an academic study of art criticism either does or does not have the ability to place a particular art piece in the context of the art world in this argument.

How do we judge MMORPGS in terms of their existence as a gaming world, place in gaming history, and their relationship to the business of gaming? There are small and large questions here but I don't think they are above a critical view. Just labeling something as a subjective experience seems to cut off all discussion though. If you do engage in some critical analysis it stands to reason that the older gamer who has played and experienced these games might have some keen insight into their comparison. Simply saying that they have rose colored glasses shuts off all discussion from anyone who was actually around to play those games.

Nostalgia is sometimes a factor, surely, but in a structured discussion there can also be some critical comparison.

(Just rambling about the way this discussion is running really, carry on)

  Morrok

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/08
Posts: 132

10/10/13 1:10:09 PM#150


Originally posted by aspekx
why older games seem better...


'Cause they ARE!

*proudly (re-)playing FFE currently* :P

  Holophonist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2014

10/10/13 5:25:56 PM#151
Originally posted by Holophonist
May I ask why we should take this "it's all nostalgia" argument seriously when in every other facet of my life my opinion has grown and changed? I don't miss power rangers. My favorite show of all time, Breaking Bad, just ended. I don't listen to alt rock anymore. My favorite band, Between the Buried and Me, is still around. Why is it only videogames, and in particular MMORPGs that make me miss the old times?

Anybody? I find it hard to believe that my opinions are constantly changing about almost everything else in my life aside from video games, particularly MMORPGs, and it 's because of nostalgia. What about nostalgia for everything else? 

  Holophonist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2014

10/10/13 5:30:47 PM#152
Originally posted by MuffinStump

In essence much of this argument at its core is not about the capacity for the older gamer to adapt to 'advancement' in the industry or whether the genre itself has advanced at all. What it really comes down to is whether you support the ongoing argument that engaged criticism of any kind toward art/architecture/music is simply subjective.

An art critic who has an established eye for detail, an understanding of art history and an academic study of art criticism either does or does not have the ability to place a particular art piece in the context of the art world in this argument.

How do we judge MMORPGS in terms of their existence as a gaming world, place in gaming history, and their relationship to the business of gaming? There are small and large questions here but I don't think they are above a critical view. Just labeling something as a subjective experience seems to cut off all discussion though. If you do engage in some critical analysis it stands to reason that the older gamer who has played and experienced these games might have some keen insight into their comparison. Simply saying that they have rose colored glasses shuts off all discussion from anyone who was actually around to play those games.

Nostalgia is sometimes a factor, surely, but in a structured discussion there can also be some critical comparison.

(Just rambling about the way this discussion is running really, carry on)

I totally agree. There's a strong tendency 'round these parts to just shut down completely once you deem something as being "subjective." As you say, that shouldn't stop you from having a discussion. And that discussion can absolutely be based in objectivity. It's not hard to agree on some objective standards of what makes a game "good" or "better." At that point you absolutely can debate the merits of two differing games or game types.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

10/10/13 8:17:03 PM#153
Originally posted by Morrok

 


Originally posted by aspekx
why older games seem better...



'Cause they ARE!

 

*proudly (re-)playing FFE currently* :P

For you. They are much worse games for me.

 

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3080

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

10/11/13 2:34:02 AM#154


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Morrok

Originally posted by aspekx
why older games seem better...

'Cause they ARE!

*proudly (re-)playing FFE currently* :P



For you. They are much worse games for me.

No way! really? I would never have thought it!

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5232

10/11/13 4:12:55 AM#155
Originally posted by Holophonist
Originally posted by MuffinStump

In essence much of this argument at its core is not about the capacity for the older gamer to adapt to 'advancement' in the industry or whether the genre itself has advanced at all. What it really comes down to is whether you support the ongoing argument that engaged criticism of any kind toward art/architecture/music is simply subjective.

An art critic who has an established eye for detail, an understanding of art history and an academic study of art criticism either does or does not have the ability to place a particular art piece in the context of the art world in this argument.

How do we judge MMORPGS in terms of their existence as a gaming world, place in gaming history, and their relationship to the business of gaming? There are small and large questions here but I don't think they are above a critical view. Just labeling something as a subjective experience seems to cut off all discussion though. If you do engage in some critical analysis it stands to reason that the older gamer who has played and experienced these games might have some keen insight into their comparison. Simply saying that they have rose colored glasses shuts off all discussion from anyone who was actually around to play those games.

Nostalgia is sometimes a factor, surely, but in a structured discussion there can also be some critical comparison.

(Just rambling about the way this discussion is running really, carry on)

I totally agree. There's a strong tendency 'round these parts to just shut down completely once you deem something as being "subjective." As you say, that shouldn't stop you from having a discussion. And that discussion can absolutely be based in objectivity. It's not hard to agree on some objective standards of what makes a game "good" or "better." At that point you absolutely can debate the merits of two differing games or game types.

Lots of people, not just posters on here use the term subjective to label something as 'impossible to determine what is better or what is right or wrong'. Well life can be rather subjective, so lets not make a decision about anything in it! It ties in with the trendy idea of being too "judgy", another label which I think is being used be people to just to dismiss the ideas of those who do not think as they do.

It is the natural function of a rational mind to weigh data and reach a conclusion, one at least most can agree on. It is just as well we are not as subjective as some people think otherwise civilization would not have made it out of the stone age. However I do think reaching objective standards is difficult, gaming is not a science. For me it is the dismissing of the attempt to reach common ground that makes it look like posters are simply trying to dismiss the arguments.

Even two curates eggs can be objectively classified as eggs.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

10/11/13 4:18:36 PM#156
Originally posted by Scot
 

Lots of people, not just posters on here use the term subjective to label something as 'impossible to determine what is better or what is right or wrong'. Well life can be rather subjective, so lets not make a decision about anything in it! It ties in with the trendy idea of being too "judgy", another label which I think is being used be people to just to dismiss the ideas of those who do not think as they do.

It is the natural function of a rational mind to weigh data and reach a conclusion, one at least most can agree on. It is just as well we are not as subjective as some people think otherwise civilization would not have made it out of the stone age. However I do think reaching objective standards is difficult, gaming is not a science. For me it is the dismissing of the attempt to reach common ground that makes it look like posters are simply trying to dismiss the arguments.

Even two curates eggs can be objectively classified as eggs.

You are confused.

Subjective does not mean that it is "impossible to determine what is better". It means what is better for me is not the same for you. I can tell very clearly that UO is a very bad game for me. Don't tell me you think that is an objective statement, and everyone in this world should think that it is a very bad game.

I see the opposite.  Some are trying to impose their preferences on others, and try to argue away that people have different preferences.

Yes, you can classified eggs, but it is pointless to try to force people who don't like eggs to say they are better food.

Don't tell me you don't know the difference between a statement about how to classify thing, and one about preferences for entertainment.

  Nevulus

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 1216

10/11/13 4:37:26 PM#157
Originally posted by nariusseldon

You are confused.

Subjective does not mean that it is "impossible to determine what is better". It means what is better for me is not the same for you. I can tell very clearly that UO is a very bad game for me. Don't tell me you think that is an objective statement, and everyone in this world should think that it is a very bad game.

I see the opposite.  Some are trying to impose their preferences on others, and try to argue away that people have different preferences.

Yes, you can classified eggs, but it is pointless to try to force people who don't like eggs to say they are better food.

Don't tell me you don't know the difference between a statement about how to classify thing, and one about preferences for entertainment.

I don't understand why someone continues to hijack the topic of threads in order to bait people into arguments.

 

Back on topic:

Older games do not seem better to me, they simple were better. The older games were much harder in difficulty, giving the user a better sense of accomplishment when they were finished. There was even a whole case study about it: http://kotaku.com/5892690/science-proves-old-video-games-were-super-hard

 

There is a difference between hard by great design and hard by weak design.

Hard by great design: Legend of Zelda - Puzzles. The puzzles were thought-provoking.

Hard by weak design: Borderlands 1 - Island of Doctor Nedd. By giving the monsters a simple snare ability, it did make the game a bit harder, but only by what most consider a "cheesey" tactic. 

 

 

 

  Asteriveth

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/18/03
Posts: 102

10/11/13 4:47:10 PM#158
Originally posted by Nevulus
Originally posted by nariusseldon

You are confused.

Subjective does not mean that it is "impossible to determine what is better". It means what is better for me is not the same for you. I can tell very clearly that UO is a very bad game for me. Don't tell me you think that is an objective statement, and everyone in this world should think that it is a very bad game.

I see the opposite.  Some are trying to impose their preferences on others, and try to argue away that people have different preferences.

Yes, you can classified eggs, but it is pointless to try to force people who don't like eggs to say they are better food.

Don't tell me you don't know the difference between a statement about how to classify thing, and one about preferences for entertainment.

I don't understand why someone continues to hijack the topic of threads in order to bait people into arguments.

 

Back on topic:

Older games do not seem better to me, they simple were better. The older games were much harder in difficulty, giving the user a better sense of accomplishment when they were finished. There was even a whole case study about it: http://kotaku.com/5892690/science-proves-old-video-games-were-super-hard

 

There is a difference between hard by great design and hard by weak design.

Hard by great design: Legend of Zelda - Puzzles. The puzzles were thought-provoking.

Hard by weak design: Borderlands 1 - Island of Doctor Nedd. By giving the monsters a simple snare ability, it did make the game a bit harder, but only by what most consider a "cheesey" tactic. 

 

 

 

So that they can have 14888 posts. Apparently they have no life away from these boards. 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

10/11/13 5:21:10 PM#159
Originally posted by Nevulus
Originally posted by nariusseldon

You are confused.

Subjective does not mean that it is "impossible to determine what is better". It means what is better for me is not the same for you. I can tell very clearly that UO is a very bad game for me. Don't tell me you think that is an objective statement, and everyone in this world should think that it is a very bad game.

I see the opposite.  Some are trying to impose their preferences on others, and try to argue away that people have different preferences.

Yes, you can classified eggs, but it is pointless to try to force people who don't like eggs to say they are better food.

Don't tell me you don't know the difference between a statement about how to classify thing, and one about preferences for entertainment.

I don't understand why someone continues to hijack the topic of threads in order to bait people into arguments.

 

Back on topic:

Older games do not seem better to me, they simple were better. The older games were much harder in difficulty, giving the user a better sense of accomplishment when they were finished. There was even a whole case study about it: http://kotaku.com/5892690/science-proves-old-video-games-were-super-hard

 

There is a difference between hard by great design and hard by weak design.

Hard by great design: Legend of Zelda - Puzzles. The puzzles were thought-provoking.

Hard by weak design: Borderlands 1 - Island of Doctor Nedd. By giving the monsters a simple snare ability, it did make the game a bit harder, but only by what most consider a "cheesey" tactic. 

 

 

 

And i don't understand why someone cannot tolerate people with different opinions.

Incidentally, do you agree or disagree that fun and "goodness" of a game is subjective?

  Shayyd80

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/08/13
Posts: 39

10/12/13 7:52:25 PM#160
Originally posted by drakaena
Because devs used to make games they wanted to play instead of corporation's deciding what will make them the most money. MMOs lost their soul. Sort of like D&D.

well said

21 Pages First « 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 » Last Search