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General Discussion  » Why is WvWvW and SPVP such a fail?

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117 posts found
  RizelStar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

10/10/13 11:35:52 AM#61
Originally posted by Neo_Viper

I played DAoC long enough, and I enjoy GW2's WvW way more. Way better balanced and designed. The only reason why DAoC worked back then is because it was the only choice in that category of MMORPGs. By today's standards, that game is quite bad, something only for a few hardcore nostalgia struck (ex)players.

You do have a point, in fact that goes for a lot of MMORPGs, a lot of things succeeded due to time.

 

I still stick to the fact though that some features in DAOC should be at least copied and expanded on or something in WvW, like announcements with deaths and etc, and maybe make categories of which Guild has put in the most work and etc, who killed who, who killed who using traps or something crazy.

 

Then some other things, but I would like to say some of the things people say GW2 needs from DAOC would make the experience much worse, like I believe seperating races would of killed WVW quick. Example pit chars against humans in WVW and from the gate we already know who'd win. 

 

Also some things would go against A-Net's philosophies also being the sheer fact that they don't want progression being timed based, you shouldn't have to play catch up only to then keep catching up because once you catch up who ever has had 3k plus hours in the game before you started would advance into another teier making you have to keep catching up.

 

I did look at some forums and old posts as to why DAOC had some short comings, cause I knew not everything about it was great, which somepeople tend to come of as if it is which it wasn't. Now is it one of the best RVR type games I knwo based off of common sense, that it is, but otherwise it should never be 100% copied.

 

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Nephaerius

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1465

10/10/13 11:44:09 AM#62
WvWvW is meaningless.  By this I mean it has no impact on anything outside of the instance and basically is just keep trading.  It's fun but eventually it didn't strike me as any different than WoW Battlegrounds or WAR's Scenarios.  Spvp still only has a single game mode despite multiple maps.  Balance is a travesty when it should be easier to manage than GW1 thanks to the removal of dual classing.  Those are my issues.  Same ones I had at launch and nothing has changed in over a year.  Removal of culling and additional pvp progression were nice additions, but not enough to satisfy me (too little too late).

Twitter: @Nephaerius
Steam: Neph
Xbox 360 GT: Nephaerius

  loulaki

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/20/11
Posts: 810

10/10/13 12:04:21 PM#63

the WvWvW it would be better if it was a fight between the 3 orders, and not an instanced ...

the sPvP again it would be good if it had bigger player base, my solution to this would be a special "locked" client available only for Mists and with a low or zero price ...

 

thats the main flaws for the PvP aspect of GW2 .

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2733

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

10/10/13 12:13:46 PM#64
I don't think they are fail.  In fact I would bet tens of thousands of players play in the PvP modes every day.  Far from fail.  While it might not be to your liking I am sure it is to others.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Mothanos

Elite Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1849

10/10/13 12:14:31 PM#65

Same old same old with nothing realy new or exciting.
I dont mind massive battles duking it out, but a handfull of spells and no healers make WvW a real pain in the ass.
If you got your shit on cooldown your out.

Also like many have said its instanced and it doesnt realy give you a reward + i always have bad luck with tokens that i need for gear.


GW2 would have been perfect for me if:
1: I could roll a dedicated Healer or Tank
2: WvW would have been open World instead of instanced.
3: I had more buttan to press.

Combine all 3 and GW2 would have gotten close to a 10/10
Now it stands in a 7 but a boring not entertaining combat system realy brakes it for me.


  Butch808

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/16/09
Posts: 323

10/10/13 12:19:06 PM#66
Because GW2 is a PVE game with pvp tacked onto the side.
  Vorch

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 809

10/10/13 12:35:18 PM#67

GW2's sPvP isn't bad at all.

There's only one mode, though. I think that the biggest strike against it is that people want more sPvP. And the fact that people have been farming rank points in skyhammer.

 

"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

  drakaena

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 508

10/10/13 12:38:16 PM#68

SPvP is trash. 

The actual gameplay itself is good. My shouts Warrior is one of my favorite playstyles in MMO history. 

But the PvP design itself is a bad joke.

  nastyjman

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/12
Posts: 163

10/10/13 12:43:25 PM#69
Originally posted by drakaena

SPvP is trash. 

The actual gameplay itself is good. My shouts Warrior is one of my favorite playstyles in MMO history. 

But the PvP design itself is a bad joke.

Yeah... I don't bother with sPvP. For some reason, I can't play it more than 3 rounds. I blame the single game mode we have in sPvP.

WvW, however, is the bees-knees for me. I love the fact that open world PvP gets its own instance instead of it being open world. Call me carebear, but if I want to PvE, I want to PvE without the fear of getting ganked.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

10/10/13 1:38:20 PM#70
Originally posted by Butch808
Because GW2 is a PVE game with pvp tacked onto the side.

This is bullshit of course. PvP was announced as a main component of GW2 since the very day the game was first revealed to be in development.

My computer is better than yours.

  FlyinDutchman87

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/10
Posts: 167

10/10/13 1:56:49 PM#71
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Butch808
Because GW2 is a PVE game with pvp tacked onto the side.

This is bullshit of course. PvP was announced as a main component of GW2 since the very day the game was first revealed to be in development.

There you have it. It's because PvP is "a" main component instead of "thee" main component. If your going to make a good PvP game it needs to be done from Day 1, and be connected to the rest of the game, the economy, and be a fundamental part of the world. Not stuck in a box and put in the corner.

  Mud_Monster

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/31/04
Posts: 225

10/10/13 2:12:24 PM#72

The main negative my friends had about it (WvW) is that enemy names are hidden.  Part of the fun in other games' PvP was building a name for yourself, creating rivalries, etc.  Fighting a nameless zerg takes alot of that out of the game.

For SPvP, I only ever pugged that, but when I did try it, everyone just ran around in a circle from point to point pretty much avoiding the other team.  I think that it could have been fun with an organized team, but my friends never really gave it much of a chance before moving on to other games.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

10/10/13 5:31:31 PM#73
Originally posted by Mud_Monster

The main negative my friends had about it (WvW) is that enemy names are hidden.  Part of the fun in other games' PvP was building a name for yourself, creating rivalries, etc.  Fighting a nameless zerg takes alot of that out of the game.

I like that. No kiddie logging an alt on your server after you killed him to call you names. To me, no matter if you see the names or not, I don't fight names, I fight enemies. I don't feel the need to brag or hold grief against specific people when playing a video game.

My computer is better than yours.

  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1755

10/10/13 7:05:33 PM#74
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Mud_Monster

The main negative my friends had about it (WvW) is that enemy names are hidden.  Part of the fun in other games' PvP was building a name for yourself, creating rivalries, etc.  Fighting a nameless zerg takes alot of that out of the game.

I like that. No kiddie logging an alt on your server after you killed him to call you names. To me, no matter if you see the names or not, I don't fight names, I fight enemies. I don't feel the need to brag or hold grief against specific people when playing a video game.

I'm the same way.  I get a kick out of people who think they are making a name for themselves in PVP.   I have seen people who thought they were good drop to the other team's scrubs.  I have yet to remember anyone's name in all of the PVP games I played, which is A LOT.   If I see a "red" player then either I kill them or they kill me.   Doesn't get any more cut and dry than that.  I could care less the name of the person of whom I'm scraping off my boot or the name of the person who scrapes me off because the results the next time we meet could possibly end up different.

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  vmoped

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 1722

10/10/13 7:14:53 PM#75

I could agree with the argument that they should show names if the entire game was pvp, but since pvp is just a third or less of the endgame then it makes no difference to me.  In Shadowbane, Eve, UO (pre-trammel), etc... you knew the names of the good pvp'ers, in GW2 it doesn't matter which one of the mass killed you. 

My problem with WvW is the rewards and the lack of any semblance of permanency.  Everything gets wiped so often, flipping can happen too quickly.  Outside of score there is too little incentive to care, and even then it resets anyways.  It honestly reminds me a lot of the RvR in WAR, and not in a good way...

Cheers!

MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  stevebombsquad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 608

10/11/13 8:34:23 AM#76
Originally posted by Vorch

GW2's sPvP isn't bad at all.

There's only one mode, though. I think that the biggest strike against it is that people want more sPvP. And the fact that people have been farming rank points in skyhammer.

 

I think it is more than that. It just hasn't caught on. It also isn't very fun to watch. There is a reason that is has almost no viewers on Twitch. If it was popular people would watch it to learn strategies and such. Almost no one streams it. 

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2860

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

10/11/13 8:40:41 AM#77

I feel the reason its weak is just since the combat system in GW2 is frankly quiet weak. If the combat system was stronger, I feel pvp would be a better experience, even if its not completely 'there' with how the modes are set up. It just isn't a very competative system, its pretty much a "if you know how to use dodge, your gold" system. Sure, WvWvW isn't very well executed, leaving a lacking of that 'grand epic battle' scale which relies a lot on zerging being king (further diminishing the real aspect of 'skill') but its still not that horrible, just not fully realized with its set up.

 

Again, I feel its issues come that its combat system is just lack luster that kind of harms the PvP from feeling really great. Other games just did a far better job on that end.

  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1755

10/11/13 8:55:55 AM#78
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by Vorch

GW2's sPvP isn't bad at all.

There's only one mode, though. I think that the biggest strike against it is that people want more sPvP. And the fact that people have been farming rank points in skyhammer.

 

I think it is more than that. It just hasn't caught on. It also isn't very fun to watch. There is a reason that is has almost no viewers on Twitch. If it was popular people would watch it to learn strategies and such. Almost no one streams it. 

I went to twitch out of curiosity to see what it's about.  The only other MMO that has a similar sPvP set up that GW2 has (capture point BGs, arenas) that I noticed on there is WoW.  Of course WoW is going to have more viewers.  If you compare GW2 to mobas like LoL in terms of viewers/streamers then of course LoL will have more as well.  So other than mobas and WoW, what exactly are you using as a benchmark to determine what is considered a good number of viewers/streamers?  Just curious becuase you said almost no one streams it but when I did search I found a lot of channels and videos to watch.  So what is the cut off number to be considered "no one"?

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  woeye

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/01/07
Posts: 119

10/11/13 9:29:39 AM#79

It really depends on what you expect from PvP.

If you just want to melt some faces and pew-pew than GW2 is fine. If you, however, are looking for more tactical play and team-work oriented PvP then GW2 isn't the right game imho. 

Personally, my biggest issues with GW2's PvP are these:

  • WvW is for the most part (with some exceptions) all about numbers and coverage. If your server lacks the numbers you can either transfer to a high-pop server and join the lemmings or get used to being stomped over and over. And after getting stomped by huge blobs several weeks it becomes rather annoying. Transfering, however, isn't an option for me. I don't want to leave my guild behind. 
  • If ANet had put a population cap on the servers things might have been not so out-of-control. It's ok to get beaten by a server where the enemy players are just better. But getting outplayed due to the lack of "numbers" is frustrating. And this issue will only accelerate over time. Meaning more and more players might transfer to high-pop servers resulting in deserted remaining servers.
  • Team-play and synergy. GW2 is titled as a fast paced action MMO. Yes, it is fast paced. But at the same time I feel it is also very, very simple. Just mash buttons and hope that someone dies. There's rarely synergy between classes. Most things are done for you automatically (AoE damage, AoE buffs) and you rarely have to make choices. Take a look at some fast paced HoN games, heck even Dota 2, and compare it to GW2. GW2 is all about selfish pew-pew play.
  • Balance could be better. In WvW it's all about having "heavies" (guardians and warriors) in the frontline. Other classes can do ok but most guilds or groups will prefer certain classes because they perform better in WvW.
  • In SPvP the current balance is a bit off imho. What is really annoying is that the most easiest to plays classes/builds are also the most powerful. Normally you would expect high skill -> high reward but not in GW2. 
  • What is even more annoying is how long it takes ANet to do something. In other PvP games balancing tweaks happen much faster. But in GW2 everything besides PvE content takes ages. It seems ANet's focus is on PvE.
Oh well, at least GW2 encouraged me to give HoN and Dota 2 a try. And after playing those I cannot bring myself to play PvP in GW2 anymore. But as I said at the beginning, I prefer tactical team-play. But that's just me. I guess GW2 is just not the right game for me.
 
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7239

10/11/13 9:35:06 AM#80
Originally posted by nastyjman
Originally posted by drakaena

SPvP is trash. 

The actual gameplay itself is good. My shouts Warrior is one of my favorite playstyles in MMO history. 

But the PvP design itself is a bad joke.

Yeah... I don't bother with sPvP. For some reason, I can't play it more than 3 rounds. I blame the single game mode we have in sPvP.

WvW, however, is the bees-knees for me. I love the fact that open world PvP gets its own instance instead of it being open world. Call me carebear, but if I want to PvE, I want to PvE without the fear of getting ganked.

Wpvp will not be redefined as instances. WvW is what it is, an eternal battle ground, minus the few minutes for rest ;)

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

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