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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Target based combat ? Really?

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72 posts found
  cura

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 862

10/09/13 2:16:05 PM#21
Originally posted by Mardukk
Originally posted by keithian

To help educate the original poster or anyone else that panics from what was written, here is how the targeting works which I think is a very healthy compromise between the single player game and the reality of placing balanced combat in an MMO for all skill types..especially since targeting in PVP or situations in PVE will be more complex due to the # of characters on the screen at once which was rarely if ever an issue with the single player games. Source is Tamriel Foundry.

There are two targeting systems in ESO. The first is the default system of "soft-lock" targeting which essentially assists the player in aiming attacks and projectiles provided they have their reticle aimed reasonably closely to an enemy player or monster. Allow your reticle to stray too far away from your target, and your attacks will miss altogether. The second targeting system is similar to "tab-targeting", this allows you to focus a specific enemy within a group to manually specify the target of your attacks. An important note with this system is that you are still required to aim your attacks towards your target. The tab locking simply exists to help you specify which enemy out of a crowd of multiple targets is the focus of your attacks.

It all depends on what their definition of reasonably close is.  If they mean in the general direction it will still suck.  If they mean really close that would be ok...imo.  

What does aiming have to do with balance?  Are we too concerned that some people won't be able to aim?

It means in generall direction. I saw some guy playing archer and it looked idiotic as arrows didnt fly where he aimed. They should either make it manual or tab. What they implemented should be called half-ass targetting as it will piss people who prefer tab and wont satisfy players who prefer manual aiming.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17017

10/09/13 2:20:43 PM#22
Originally posted by cura
 

It means in generall direction. I saw some guy playing archer and it looked idiotic as arrows didnt fly where he aimed. They should either make it manual or tab. What they implemented should be called half-ass targetting as it will piss people who prefer tab and wont satisfy players who prefer manual aiming.

You could be right.

When I tried the demo at PAX I was very frustrated because I kept trying to dodge magic attacks that just kept swerving and connecting. I couldn't stand it.

  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 976

10/09/13 3:57:19 PM#23
Personally I don't mind target based combat if it requires use of brains. Whether it's good or bad remains yet to be seen but I certainly know that a meaningful target based combat like it was in EQ beats GW2 style dps zerg shite any time.
  rodingo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1658

10/10/13 7:48:04 AM#24
Yeh tab targeting is kind of lame, but there seems to be a lot of players that love it, so what can you do (other than come here to these forums and bltch)?  I would like to see more MMOs use skill targeting like in SMITE, which Wildstar seems to be doing.  However, there are things about Wildstar that are steering me away from that title. 

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 4700

10/10/13 7:51:30 AM#25
Originally posted by tom_gore
Because it looks like only SOE can make FPS mechanics work in an MMO (and Aventurine, sort of).

You are forgetting about Firefall and Defiance.

 

  aspekx

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2153

10/10/13 7:54:26 AM#26
my biggest issue is the npc hard lock targeting. unlike ESO games in the past you cannot dodge out of the way or duck behind an object in order to avoid an incoming attack, like a missile attack for instance. that attack will follow you around a corner if necessary in order to hit you.

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  BMBender

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 550

10/10/13 7:59:36 AM#27
Originally posted by Vayman
Originally posted by Tuchaka
sad thing about this game is they are basically jamming a great sandbox into  a theme park skin with only lip service being played to actual sandbox ideas and then saying its the best of both worlds which is why i am not gonna play it.

I think I'm with you on that. I love the single player games of the genre. But this MMO just isn't getting me excited. There really is no "best of both worlds" when mixing sandbox and themepark. Any ingredient from one pretty much ruins the flavor of the other.

funny thing about mixing and matching contrary play styles;  you'd probably get more market share to JUST PICK ONE ALREADY, instead of offering something that doesn't really please any of em.  But no some peoples kids keep banging their heads trying to cram it all together then wonder why the player base bleeds away shortly after.  This movie just gets painful to watch over and over.

  Muke

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1534

10/10/13 8:10:43 AM#28
Originally posted by SNAFUdamus

What is going to make this game different  than every other MMO out there. I mean, we now have classes in a game they promised would be skill based.

Now I hear that the combat will be target based and not based on AIMING? Really, so this is just another in a VERY long line of MMOs where all you do in combat is spam the TAB KEY, find a target then SPAM skill keys until the target is dead? in 2013 copying other MMOs is STILL all game companies know how to do?

What happened to aiming?

What happened to ACTIVE BLOCKING?

 

 

What is different about ESO now? It looks to me like it is just another WoW, SWToR, or pick what ever garden variety game that requires zero skill to play.

The more I read about the game the more disheartened with it I become.

The fact that you compare every game to WOW shows enough about your MMO experience, which obviously is very limited and only consists to the world..............of Warcraft,

There are successful games out there with Tab targeting, if they made it like in other Elder Scrolls games you would be ocmplaining about aimbots like in certain other mmo-type games like PS2.

 

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  SNAFUdamus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/10
Posts: 60

 
OP  10/10/13 9:33:45 AM#29
Originally posted by iJustWant

I heard on Fox News that someone said that they overheard someone else say that they think some people say the sky is falling.

 

Therefore, ESO must have tab targeting, and is doomed to fail.

 

Who said anything about it failing, OR the skyrim falling? You guys on these forums just have no clue how to have a conversation do you? Its just troll or be trolled eh?

  DavisFlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2427

10/10/13 9:38:15 AM#30
Originally posted by Ender4

Well all of the aiming combat MMOs have been pretty bad and the combat systems haven't really worked all that well once you really dig into them.

Darkfall would beg to differ.

 

The real reason though, is this game has been through development hell and so many different revisions and direction changes. This one looks like a train wreck.

  iJustWant

Novice Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 82

10/10/13 2:18:46 PM#31
Originally posted by SNAFUdamus
Originally posted by iJustWant

I heard on Fox News that someone said that they overheard someone else say that they think some people say the sky is falling.

 

Therefore, ESO must have tab targeting, and is doomed to fail.

 

Who said anything about it failing, OR the skyrim falling? You guys on these forums just have no clue how to have a conversation do you? Its just troll or be trolled eh?

 

Thanks for lumping me into the "you guys on these forums" and "troll or be trolled" groups. Though my comment was heavy on Sarcasm, it was no personal attack on you.

 

By the way, this is a conversation; you said something, and folks are responding. You just seem to dislike the course of the conversation.

  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2044

10/10/13 3:05:35 PM#32


Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Ender4 Well all of the aiming combat MMOs have been pretty bad and the combat systems haven't really worked all that well once you really dig into them.
Darkfall would beg to differ.

 

The real reason though, is this game has been through development hell and so many different revisions and direction changes. This one looks like a train wreck.


Wait, DF changed to tag targeting? This was one of the ones I was talking about where the game itself is pretty bad. Tera has an ok game behind it but the combat mechanics simply don't work very well. AOC might as well be tab targeting outside of playing dance dance revolution when you want to do a special move. GW2 has been about the most successful and they still have tab targeting, they just layered it with aiming and dodging.

  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 2945

10/11/13 2:39:51 AM#33
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Ender4

Well all of the aiming combat MMOs have been pretty bad and the combat systems haven't really worked all that well once you really dig into them.

Darkfall would beg to differ.

 

The real reason though, is this game has been through development hell and so many different revisions and direction changes. This one looks like a train wreck.

When you make comments like "this one looks like a train wreck"  and 'development hell" which pretty much is the opposite of what I've read from leaked beta's and those that played the game at the conventions....both gaming outlets and everyday people......and that they seem to be listening to the feedback from the people in beta...does it not make some of these comments look kinda hollow? I mean its not swaying my opinion at all.  Maybe I misunderstood what you wrote and you meant Darkfall, because that game completely failed due to its development hell and targeting a niche crowd and thank god this game isn't following in any shape or form to that pile of crap.

There Is Always Hope!

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 4852

10/15/13 7:53:18 PM#34
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Ender4

Well all of the aiming combat MMOs have been pretty bad and the combat systems haven't really worked all that well once you really dig into them.

Darkfall would beg to differ.

 

The real reason though, is this game has been through development hell and so many different revisions and direction changes. This one looks like a train wreck.

When you make comments like "this one looks like a train wreck"  and 'development hell" which pretty much is the opposite of what I've read from leaked beta's and those that played the game at the conventions....both gaming outlets and everyday people......and that they seem to be listening to the feedback from the people in beta...does it not make some of these comments look kinda hollow? I mean its not swaying my opinion at all.  Maybe I misunderstood what you wrote and you meant Darkfall, because that game completely failed due to its development hell and targeting a niche crowd and thank god this game isn't following in any shape or form to that pile of crap.

 I think we would all be better served if we were more honest about this discussion.

[mod edit]

Does you MMO have rainbow sprinkles?

  jdlamson75

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/27/08
Posts: 888

There's some lovely filth down here.

10/15/13 8:02:07 PM#35

"I haven't played this, and this is what I've heard about, and it makes me upset." - OP

 

Worry not, cheekums.  There's still aiming.  And I'm pretty sure all games are target based.  What, exactly, are you aiming at, if not your target?

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 4852

10/15/13 8:10:11 PM#36
Originally posted by jdlamson75

"I haven't played this, and this is what I've heard about, and it makes me upset." - OP

 

Worry not, cheekums.  There's still aiming.  And I'm pretty sure all games are target based.  What, exactly, are you aiming at, if not your target?

'there's still aiming'

      There wasn't when during at least the first few month after they annocued it. in fact, they were explicitly asked and they explicitly said no. Now they might have changed.

 

'pretty sure all games are target based'

    Not MMOs. most are tab target

Does you MMO have rainbow sprinkles?

  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 2945

10/16/13 12:15:00 AM#37
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by keithian
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Ender4

Well all of the aiming combat MMOs have been pretty bad and the combat systems haven't really worked all that well once you really dig into them.

Darkfall would beg to differ.

 

The real reason though, is this game has been through development hell and so many different revisions and direction changes. This one looks like a train wreck.

When you make comments like "this one looks like a train wreck"  and 'development hell" which pretty much is the opposite of what I've read from leaked beta's and those that played the game at the conventions....both gaming outlets and everyday people......and that they seem to be listening to the feedback from the people in beta...does it not make some of these comments look kinda hollow? I mean its not swaying my opinion at all.  Maybe I misunderstood what you wrote and you meant Darkfall, because that game completely failed due to its development hell and targeting a niche crowd and thank god this game isn't following in any shape or form to that pile of crap.

 I think we would all be better served if we were more honest about this discussion.

I don't think anyone with an IQ over 2 thinks that the reason Darkfall isn't doing that well is got anything at all whatsoever to do with its aiming combat and what I don't understand is why someone would try to suggest that it was.

First of all, you don't need to insult people personally discussing IQ if you don't agree with something. Second, the reference was more the irony of Davisflight using Darkfall as a shining aiming example followed by the words Development Hell and Revisions and Changes when that same game was plagued by just that despite the combat reference. I am completely aware the aiming wasn't why Darkfall failed. It was just the irony of the two sentences side by side...get it now?

There Is Always Hope!

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8564

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

10/18/13 5:28:45 AM#38
Welcome to trade offs and 200 to 300 characters and even more NPC on the same screen...

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

  User Deleted
10/18/13 11:34:54 AM#39
  goldtoof

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

10/18/13 1:46:33 PM#40
it doesn't matter what style of combat is used. It could be real time like chivalry, semi tab like gw2 or full tab like wow.

What matters is that the combat is fun and polished.
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