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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Crafting, should it be improved or stay as simple?

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44 posts found
  darkedone02

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/06
Posts: 547

 
OP  10/10/13 10:02:57 AM#1

I am wondering what the community of mmorpg thinks about the crafting system in various of mmo's that we played. I love crafting in certain games where it feels rewarding, where it becomes a boost to my treasury or a boon on my gear (world of warcraft), I also like the semi-realistic system to where I don't stand and click the craft all button, and have to avoid work problems and press the right button to get it removed (Everquest 2), or the right tool to get it out (Vanguard: Saga of Heroes). I love the massive amount of things you be able to make in certain games like furniture, weapons of all kinds, special ammunition, literacy, and many other things you can make (mortal online, ultima online, darkfall online).

 

Sometimes I wish there was a non-permadeath rpg game to where crafting is similar to the scale of Mortal Online or Ultima Online or something similar to a roguelike game where I can craft a shitload of things from a very wide range, but has a system similar to Everquest 2/Vanguard Saga of Heroes where I have to get the right tools to avoid work problems and make a well-made version of the item with better stats, and possibly something very unique that could aid me in some way or form like WoW when I am skilled at that type of craft.

 

 

  monochrome19

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/09/13
Posts: 329

10/10/13 10:12:23 AM#2
I just discovered EQ Next literally 5 seconds ago and even though they havent released much on the subject of crafting I can guarantee you it'll be revolutionary in EQ Next. I cant friggin wait!!!
  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

10/10/13 10:15:41 AM#3
Simple crafting isn't worth the programming time or effort. Either make crafting an entirely viable, deep part of the game, or don't bother. It's simply a chore in WoW, with little reward. In Vanguard and SWG, it was a lifestyle.
  Demalis

Novice Member

Joined: 5/12/13
Posts: 134

10/10/13 10:16:02 AM#4

In most games crafting is a side game, I think because it detracts from the gear tread mill. I think instead of handing out some weird made up currency the reward should be crafting mats, where if you farm enough dungeons/ raids you can craft the best gear in the game. The whole idea of being a hero as a crafter is lost if you can not craft the best gear. I also believe that a system similar to this would promote community, lets face not everyone enjoys crafting, that would bring the two sides together to tackle common goals.

 

  zasten

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/13
Posts: 287

10/10/13 10:17:37 AM#5
I don't mind how complicated it is so long as it is worth doing. If you can't make money from it or even just get better gear from it then it is not worth doing. If all you get is better gear then don't make the mats that rare or hard to find that you will rarely craft anything!!!
  Mr.Kujo

Novice Member

Joined: 5/23/12
Posts: 392

“Discussion is impossible with someone who claims not to seek the truth, but already to possess it.”

10/10/13 10:24:34 AM#6

I think there is no room for advanced crafting in plain mmorpg. More advanced stuff would require the entire game to revolve around crafting. It would need to be the main focus. So a niche game.

I always wanted crafting to be a game in itself, where player skill is required to make something, rather than just numbers. But then again I wouldn't want crafting to be as efficient as dungeon running, since it would render all the action part of the game useless.

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

10/10/13 10:25:20 AM#7

I'm not sure you can really even call what most mmos have is "crafting" any more. You gather a bunch of mats along the yellow brick road, and at some point you click a button and "make" something. Then you sell it to an npc vendor for less than the cost of making it.

You do this till you get to skill cap so you can make one or two items that are on par with basic entry lvl raid gear....and that's the last time crafting is ever viable.

 

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7541

10/10/13 10:33:56 AM#8

I think more important than how things are crafted is the type of economy you are crafting in. If everything from gear to weapons, to fluff is crafted by players, and  the materials needed to craft draw from a broad rage of resources, you will have a great crafting system.

 

Dead are the days of Dev driven economies where you craft only level your crafting. 

 

edit - yeah like the guy above me said.

  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11727

10/10/13 10:36:19 AM#9
Originally posted by DamonVile

You do this till you get to skill cap so you can make one or two items that are on par with basic entry lvl raid gear....and that's the last time crafting is ever viable.

crafting can be tied to nonraid features - like player housing

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7541

10/10/13 10:40:39 AM#10
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by DamonVile

You do this till you get to skill cap so you can make one or two items that are on par with basic entry lvl raid gear....and that's the last time crafting is ever viable.

crafting can be tied to nonraid features - like player housing

doesn't matter. if there're drops for housing items, or points/badges for dev made items, it will be more or less what is described above. Everything needs to be player crafted. Drop the recipe, not the complete uber item...

  User Deleted
10/10/13 10:54:49 AM#11


Originally posted by bcbully
I think more important than how things are crafted is the type of economy you are crafting in. If everything from gear to weapons, to fluff is crafted by players, and  the materials needed to craft draw from a broad rage of resources, you will have a great crafting system.

 

Dead are the days of Dev driven economies where you craft only level your crafting. 

edit - yeah like the guy above me said.



Great crafting is not just about what you craft and where the resources come from. The act of crafting has to be interesting. I crafted in Fallen Earth and Darkfall 1.0 and you could make everything in the game. But it was boring as hell. Drag, drop, click create, come back in a day.

People think crafting systems are great simply based on if they can make the best of everything. If the act of crafting is dull, then you really don't have a great crafting system. You have a great economy. Which are two very different things.

  Ender4

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2097

10/10/13 10:59:22 AM#12

I much prefer simplistic crafting, I don't want to play some dumb mini game to craft my items where the game itself might turn me off from something I enjoy.

It is very important that crafting not be as accessible as it is in most games. If every single character has a crafting skill or two maximized it is pretty much impossible for crafting to be valuable. Take a game like GW2 and cut the gathering nodes down by at least a factor of 10 and make rare recipe drops etc. Make leveling up a lot slower so if you want to max crafting you have to go out of your way to max it, not just something you do on the side while adventuring. Make the items you craft really valuable and very diverse and allow you to modify items to make them better.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7541

10/10/13 11:13:19 AM#13
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by bcbully
I think more important than how things are crafted is the type of economy you are crafting in. If everything from gear to weapons, to fluff is crafted by players, and  the materials needed to craft draw from a broad rage of resources, you will have a great crafting system.

 

 

Dead are the days of Dev driven economies where you craft only level your crafting. 

edit - yeah like the guy above me said.


 


Great crafting is not just about what you craft and where the resources come from. The act of crafting has to be interesting. I crafted in Fallen Earth and Darkfall 1.0 and you could make everything in the game. But it was boring as hell. Drag, drop, click create, come back in a day.

People think crafting systems are great simply based on if they can make the best of everything. If the act of crafting is dull, then you really don't have a great crafting system. You have a great economy. Which are two very different things.

I would gladly take both, and do not completely disagree with you. I do think how it's crafted plays less of a role. Kinda like the icing on the cake. If a mmo had a beautiful designed detailed crafting system, but it was all vendor trash, it would not be fulfilling. It would probably be very frustrating. I will argue that having value for what you created is the cake.

  Newfr

Novice Member

Joined: 10/11/06
Posts: 126

10/10/13 11:14:50 AM#14
I think the very question is wrong. It's should be "Crafting, should it be improved or stay as meaningless as in most MMOs?". I think the problem is that you don't need crafting at all in most modern MMOs. It will give you some kind of buff at end game at best (like sockets/better gems/etc in WoW). Make it complicated and most players will just skip it. And at the same time that will not make it more useful. On the other hand we have EvE. Is crafting there complicated? I don't think so. Is it meaningful? Hell, yes. But that have it's own problems ofc. First of all that doesn't work (well or at all) with gear treadmill type of gameplay. Also while it's work great with EvE "one world one server" system it can be a bane for "multiple servers" system that most MMORPGS use now because low population servers will probably have a huge problems with not enough supplies.

So i don't really see any bright future for crafting in gear treadmill type of games. Only some side game simple activity, because otherwise it'll be absolutely no point in it for most of players.
  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

10/10/13 11:19:29 AM#15
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Foomerang

 

 


Great crafting is not just about what you craft and where the resources come from. The act of crafting has to be interesting. I crafted in Fallen Earth and Darkfall 1.0 and you could make everything in the game. But it was boring as hell. Drag, drop, click create, come back in a day.

People think crafting systems are great simply based on if they can make the best of everything. If the act of crafting is dull, then you really don't have a great crafting system. You have a great economy. Which are two very different things.

I would gladly take both, and do not completely disagree with you. I do think how it's crafted plays less of a role. Kinda like the icing on the cake. If a mmo had a beautiful designed detailed crafting system, but it was all vendor trash, it would not be fulfilling. It would probably be very frustrating. I will argue that having value for what you created is the cake.

I agree. SWG had a somewhat interesting system making the blueprint but it was nothing special once you'd done it a million times. But everything you made was useful to someone even if it was just a crap throw away weapon.

It's still one of the best crafting games ever made.

  User Deleted
10/10/13 11:31:52 AM#16


Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Foomerang  

Originally posted by bcbully I think more important than how things are crafted is the type of economy you are crafting in. If everything from gear to weapons, to fluff is crafted by players, and  the materials needed to craft draw from a broad rage of resources, you will have a great crafting system.     Dead are the days of Dev driven economies where you craft only level your crafting.  edit - yeah like the guy above me said.
  Great crafting is not just about what you craft and where the resources come from. The act of crafting has to be interesting. I crafted in Fallen Earth and Darkfall 1.0 and you could make everything in the game. But it was boring as hell. Drag, drop, click create, come back in a day. People think crafting systems are great simply based on if they can make the best of everything. If the act of crafting is dull, then you really don't have a great crafting system. You have a great economy. Which are two very different things.
I would gladly take both, and do not completely disagree with you. I do think how it's crafted plays less of a role. Kinda like the icing on the cake. If a mmo had a beautiful designed detailed crafting system, but it was all vendor trash, it would not be fulfilling. It would probably be very frustrating. I will argue that having value for what you created is the cake.


How its crafted is just as important imho. Look at it this way: Would you say a game has great combat simply because you can kill the hardest mobs in the game? No. A game has great combat because of how well done the process is. Its the same with crafting.

Saying that crafting is great because you can make the best loot is like saying combat is great because you can get the best loot. Thats why its annoying to me when people dismiss a crafting system (like FFXIV) simply because they cant make best in slot. There is so much more to a great crafting system. You can hit them over the head with all the features and they still dont get it. Yet those same people go on diatribes about the subtle nuances of global cooldowns and active dodging.

Whether its crafting or combat, the process must be engaging or its a fail.

  Mr.Kujo

Novice Member

Joined: 5/23/12
Posts: 392

“Discussion is impossible with someone who claims not to seek the truth, but already to possess it.”

10/10/13 11:32:19 AM#17
Originally posted by Foomerang


Great crafting is not just about what you craft and where the resources come from. The act of crafting has to be interesting.

People think crafting systems are great simply based on if they can make the best of everything. If the act of crafting is dull, then you really don't have a great crafting system. You have a great economy. Which are two very different things.

Don't think it is true. The act of crafting doesn't have to be interesting, if the process of gathering materials is interesting. If I'll need to put some effort into getting required materials, and it will be entertaining at the same time, crafting can be just one button click, because I already did my share of activities and fun when collecting materials. I would like crafting to be some challenging process, if it would give different outcome depending on players skill (more skilled player, better item). Other than that it is just pointless activity.

Originally posted by Demalis

I think instead of handing out some weird made up currency the reward should be crafting mats, where if you farm enough dungeons/ raids you can craft the best gear in the game. The whole idea of being a hero as a crafter is lost if you can not craft the best gear. I also believe that a system similar to this would promote community, lets face not everyone enjoys crafting, that would bring the two sides together to tackle common goals.

I don't understand where you place non-crafting players in it, if you want to force material rewards. So players who prefer action over crafting are now dependant on crafters, since they can't get items by doing activities they like. You are just turning it around for the favor of crafters instead of making a solution that would make both gameplays viable.

  syriinx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/24/13
Posts: 991

10/10/13 11:33:24 AM#18

FFXIV crafting is pretty awesome, in terms of making the item.  Its based off vanguard, but without the tedium of managing all the reagents and tools.  FFXIV took what made VG's crafting interesting it, and removed the excess.

 

FFXIV's gathering isnt great, but its better than most sadly.

 

A good combo would be resources like SWG or Ryzom (quality matters) with a craft system like FFXIV.

  Ender4

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2097

10/10/13 11:39:32 AM#19

Nice point above. I'd rather they made the gathering harder and more interesting than the actual crafting.

  User Deleted
10/10/13 11:41:55 AM#20


Originally posted by Mr.Kujo
Don't think it is true. The act of crafting doesn't have to be interesting, if the process of gathering materials is interesting. If I'll need to put some effort into getting required materials, and it will be entertaining at the same time, crafting can be just one button click, because I already did my share of activities and fun when collecting materials. I would like crafting to be some challenging process, if it would give different outcome depending on players skill (more skilled player, better item). Other than that it is just pointless activity.

See, this is what dedicated, old school crafters have been dealing with for the past ten years. Thanks to mmos like WoW, people think crafting is supposed to be a one click side activity. Crafting has been made to cater to people who dont like crafting.

Its so ingrained, that its accepted as the norm now. Which is unfortunate.

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