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News & Features Discussion  » [Interview] ArcheAge: Russia Chooses Arcs Over Cash Shops

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46 posts found
  IstrebiteI

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/28/11
Posts: 269

10/09/13 1:45:23 PM#21
QQers will QQ, but aside from that, glad that russian journalists have the balls to argue and demand answers, not taking PR crap and buzzwords, but pursuing an answer, a true answer that actually answers the question. Good job!
  InporylemQQ

Tipster

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 165

10/09/13 1:51:02 PM#22
Originally posted by IstrebiteI
QQers will QQ, but aside from that, glad that russian journalists have the balls to argue and demand answers, not taking PR crap and buzzwords, but pursuing an answer, a true answer that actually answers the question. Good job!

Too bad all the info he got of the game comes from a 20 dias of power point presentation that some pr guy gave him from xlgames. 

ArcheAge, Black Desert and Bless videos InporylemQQ Youtube

  Sinella

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/03/09
Posts: 336

10/09/13 2:29:23 PM#23
Originally posted by sacredfool
OK, now that I've read it. They basically made a system identical to RuneScape's recently introduced bonds.

No. RuneScape's bond system is similar to Eve's PLEX, this Russian AA one is very different from it.

  eric_w66

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 1008

10/09/13 2:30:10 PM#24
In Soviet Russia, questions ask you!
  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2741

10/09/13 2:36:53 PM#25

The title is somewhat misleading. It should be:

"ArcheAge: Mail.ru Chooses Arcs Over Cash Shops, but Russia rejects it"

  sacredfool

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/07
Posts: 703

10/09/13 4:10:11 PM#26
Originally posted by Sinella
Originally posted by sacredfool
OK, now that I've read it. They basically made a system identical to RuneScape's recently introduced bonds.

No. RuneScape's bond system is similar to Eve's PLEX, this Russian AA one is very different from it.

Looked at it the third time - you have a point. They are creating an alternative currency. It's a weird system, not sure how it'll work out. 


Originally posted by nethaniah

Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.


  gatheris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/09/06
Posts: 971

10/09/13 4:20:59 PM#27

sounds like Neverwinter - either pay or play 24/7

hopefully - if Trion is actually doing anything at all with AA other sitting on their hands - they are not adopting such a system

  User Deleted
10/09/13 8:48:12 PM#28
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Nilenya
More interviewers like this this guy please. Its the first in depth critical interview of this nature I have ever read on here. Most of the time the mmorpg staff come across more as fans than writers out to serve the gamers interests. - I gather this guy doesnt work for mmorpg.com, thats too bad. We could benefit from regular industry interviews done by this guy imo :)

Really? It sounded like a bunch of self-important crap to me. They sounded really critical and probing, but in the end we didn't learn anything new. They didn't expose anything. This wasn't really journalism.

Mail.ru is adding a third rmt currency like Cryptics dilly/AD, GW gems, or somewhat analogous to Krono, Plex, Rex.

The interviewers tried to make the subject sound more complex or serious that it is. It's convoluted in AA for sure, but that's not a secret.

So I guess journalism now is asking questions like a belligerent asshat? Tell me, what benefit did we see from their "hard hitting" questions? They ended up with the same sort of conclusions that mmorpg does, only they came off sounding like jerks. Maybe it was a translational thing, but I wasn't impressed with them at all.

 

Yeah the interviewer sounded like he was on a anti-F2P crusade. The same questions could be asked about many other F2P titles like EQ2, LOTRO, TERA, Rift etc.

 

The bottom line is that if you have the money, you can buy anything you want in game. Someone will earn it for you.  Its unavoidable.  Whether its auctions, looting rights or even purchasing accounts who have already earned the items. You cant stop it.

 

The only way to minimise RMT in game is to have Bind on Pickup that instantly gets locked to the player / group / raid that defeats the encounter (so you cant sell looting rights).  Even then, people will probably still buy raid slots and loot (like people did to unlock Mythical weapons on EQ2).  This also gets rid of any opportunity for people to obtain items through In-game wealth rather than achievements, so its a double edged sword that many players don't like.

 

 

I think the interviewer was just rude and trying to push its own agenda.

 
 
  rounner

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/06
Posts: 532

10/09/13 9:23:59 PM#29

They're valid questions and the punches were pulled. The spokesperson in no way disproved the point that the system is more pay to win than other ftp or ease the concerns of inflation:

- Other free to play games are not as pay to win when the spirit of their systems is to pay for vanity items only.

- When players can inject currency into a game you need more than just some quirky add on to control pricing.

I just hope they've hired a decent economist to model all of this, they should have interviewed them.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5575

10/09/13 11:07:12 PM#30

Originally posted by mmozg_Andre

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Mail.ru is adding a third rmt currency like Cryptics dilly/AD, GW gems, or somewhat analogous to Krono, Plex, Rex.

Here is a problem. Arcs is not like GW2 Gems or EVE PLEX. Plex and Gems can be exchanged for ingame currency by players' auction, they are not bring additional 'gold' in game, only reallocate it, and they are not actual ingame currency. Arcs actually intended to be emitted by Mail.Ru itself in unlimited amounts and to be actual ingame currency. Feel the difference. It is the main point why Russian community is so upset now.

Yes, GW gems aren't exactly the same, but the Cryptic AD/Dilly is which you conveniently didn't acknowledge. That's what is entirely wrong and weak about your interview. The entire interview was riddled with selection bias. You presented and questioned from a position where you had already made up your mind. That's not good journalism. That's agenda driven bias. It read like you were pandering to attentive and indignant readerbase to boost your popularity and rating.

Of course the game is pay to win. You can buy advantage with money. You conveniently didn't mention that EVE is essentially subject to the same weaknesses as are most games in one way or another. Why didn't you mention Cryptic's exchange currency system? It's entirely relevant. You can buy advantage in those games with AD/dilly. How about WoW xpacs? No purchase no progression.

@evilastro - well said.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  mmozg_Andre

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/09/13
Posts: 5

10/09/13 11:27:48 PM#31
Originally posted by Torvaldr

 Why didn't you mention Cryptic's exchange currency system? It's entirely relevant.

Because we're not familiar with Cryptic's system. Thank you for your point, we'll investigate it for ourselves and will be prepared better next time.

  mmozg_Andre

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/09/13
Posts: 5

10/09/13 11:36:02 PM#32
Originally posted by gatheris

sounds like Neverwinter - either pay or play 24/7

It is the valid point only if there are ways to obtain ingame currency in the game. Oddly enough, in current (yet unreleased) arcs system for AA from Mail.Ru, there literally no ways to get arcs in game. Exceptions are the open-world raid-bosses (imagine competition) and a few one-time quests. Arcs injected in game only by real money payments - via 'premium accounts' in limited amounts; or you just can buy unlimited amount of arcs with real money from Mail.Ru. Gold is bind on pickup and auction works on arcs instead of gold.

Imagine: generally the 'only' (with minor exeptions) way to inject actual ingame currency in game is real money.

  sacredfool

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/07
Posts: 703

10/09/13 11:41:26 PM#33
Originally posted by mmozg_Andre
Originally posted by gatheris

sounds like Neverwinter - either pay or play 24/7

It is the valid point only if there are ways to obtain ingame currency in the game. Oddly enough, in current (yet unreleased) arcs system for AA from Mail.Ru, there literally no ways to get arcs in game. Exceptions are the raid-bosses (imagine competition) and a few one-time quests. Arcs injected in game only by real money payments - via 'premium accounts' in limited amounts; or you just can buy unlimited amount of arcs with real money from Mail.Ru. Gold is bind on pickup and auction works on arcs instead of gold.

Imagine: generally the 'only' (with minor exeptions) way to inject actual ingame currency in game is real money.

Not to mention it sounds like there is no way to purchase subscription/vanity item shop overrides with anything earned ingame.


Originally posted by nethaniah

Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.


  TiamatRoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/05/10
Posts: 96

10/09/13 11:41:40 PM#34

It's a bit of a catch 22.  You either have cash shop items (cash shop currency in this case) be tradable, and thus give cashers an advantage because they can sell their cash shop items to others for in-game currency, or you have them be untradeable, and thus give cashers an advantage because cash shop items are EXCLUSIVELY their's.

 

The only way to have it NOT give cashers an advantage is to make cash shop items untradeable AND be entirely 100% cosmetic.  And honestly I don't think it's possible for an F2P game to generate enough cash shop sales from that. Even GW, with its B2P model, at least makes its' cash shop items tradeable.

 

Of course, depending on your point of view, there's a big difference between "Pay to win" and "Pay to have a slight advantage".

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5575

10/09/13 11:45:45 PM#35
Originally posted by TiamatRoar

It's a bit of a catch 22.  You either have cash shop items (cash shop currency in this case) be tradable, and thus give cashers an advantage because they can sell their cash shop items to others for in-game currency, or you have them be untradeable, and thus give cashers an advantage because cash shop items are EXCLUSIVELY their's.

 

The only way to have it NOT give cashers an advantage is to make cash shop items untradeable AND be entirely 100% cosmetic.  And honestly I don't think it's possible for an F2P game to generate enough cash shop sales from that. Even GW, with its B2P model, at least makes its' cash shop items tradeable.

 

Of course, depending on your point of view, there's a big difference between "Pay to win" and "Pay to have a slight advantage".

Having an exchange can benefit both those with cash and those with time. Those with time can profit from those with cash and vice versa. It depends on how the system is setup and balanced. I think it's important to realize though that those with either time, money, or both will have advantages, especially compared to those with neither. That's true in everything though isn't it.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7007

10/09/13 11:48:40 PM#36

This model more or less will see more and more attention. It seems that it is fairly common in Asian mmos. Wushu has a similar model with bound silver (regular mmo gold), and unbound silver (player traded currency), gold and arcs.

 

Here is why the system works in Wushu. The conversion for $$ to unbound silver is absurd. I call it a sucker system, or a whale system. I will go as far to say 85%-90% of players only pay 9$ per month sub. We produce and get, then sell to the whales. No need to ever buy silver.

 

It's a hard concept to understand. It's literally foreign. The jest of it is make the cash to arc conversion rate stupidly bad, IF the game is good. Here's the thing though at anytime, say AA is not performing as anticipated, XL could "improve" the conversion and open the flood gates. At this point IF you do not purchase arcs, you will not be able to afford anything.

 

The most concerning thing about the AA system unlike Wushu, is there does not seem to be a sub option. Without that steady stream of revenue, the AA system may rely too heavily on the purchasing of arcs. This would mean instead of fishing for whales they maybe fishing for regular fish like me.

 
 
  IstrebiteI

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/28/11
Posts: 269

10/10/13 1:07:23 AM#37
Originally posted by mmozg_Andre
Originally posted by gatheris

sounds like Neverwinter - either pay or play 24/7

It is the valid point only if there are ways to obtain ingame currency in the game. Oddly enough, in current (yet unreleased) arcs system for AA from Mail.Ru, there literally no ways to get arcs in game. Exceptions are the raid-bosses (imagine competition) and a few one-time quests. Arcs injected in game only by real money payments - via 'premium accounts' in limited amounts; or you just can buy unlimited amount of arcs with real money from Mail.Ru. Gold is bind on pickup and auction works on arcs instead of gold.

Imagine: generally the 'only' (with minor exeptions) way to inject actual ingame currency in game is real money.

But there is way to get Arcs in game: sell your loot/craft on AH. No?

I mean, real life works the same way! There is no simple repetitive way to "find" money - you cannot, like, go out of your habitat and gather some "herbs" or "ores" that respawn for you and sell them for serious amount of money, there are no mobs to kill, no daily quests to do etc. The only way to get money is from real people who offer real jobs! And those people give you money they in turn got from other people, who all in turn get their money from the government institution that prints it!

So, this system is actually a very interesting one and closer to real world than any of the others.

Now, in real world, you do not need a "moneysink" because there is no constant influx of money (at least, not at the volumes at which gold is influxed in WoW, for example). Since in AA they will have a constant influx of money in the purchases of players, they will need a moneysink. This is the most crucial element in the whole system and wether this is done right or wrong will make or break the system.

  sacredfool

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/07
Posts: 703

10/10/13 1:18:47 AM#38
Originally posted by bcbully

The most concerning thing about the AA system unlike Wushu, is there does not seem to be a sub option. Without that steady stream of revenue, the AA system may rely too heavily on the purchasing of arcs. This would mean instead of fishing for whales they maybe fishing for regular fish like me.

 
 

There is a sub option, check the previous article on AA.


Originally posted by nethaniah

Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.


  mmozg_Andre

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/09/13
Posts: 5

10/10/13 1:44:39 AM#39
Originally posted by IstrebiteI
Since in AA they will have a constant influx of money in the purchases of players, they will need a moneysink. This is the most crucial element in the whole system and wether this is done right or wrong will make or break the system.
 

True.

Problem is, Mail.Ru has a bad (if not very bad) reputation amongst Russian gaming community due their approach to f2p gamedesign. That's why so many concerns are raised these days.

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 1960

10/10/13 3:09:03 AM#40
Originally posted by mmozg_Andre
Originally posted by Torvaldr

 Why didn't you mention Cryptic's exchange currency system? It's entirely relevant.

Because we're not familiar with Cryptic's system. Thank you for your point, we'll investigate it for ourselves and will be prepared better next time.

That's exactly why I wrote earller that "In fact, by a few questions I did the /rolleyes emote, there are russian fleets in STO, they should know from experience how easily the devs can control dilly flow and dilly prices, same with NW's AD Exchange." I thought you knew about those and deliberately skipped that matter in the interview... my bad, sorry about that, didn't know you're not familiar with it.

 

As Torvaldr wrote, "Of course the game is pay to win. You can buy advantage with money." So you could've point on many things about the system, like the devaluation of the ingame currency (EC in STO, gold in NW, both are pretty much worthless), the Exchange-players (with enough money you can pull/push the exchange rate, like if you'd play a dumbed down Forex), same with the AH prices. Those would be valid concerns.

Inflation or lack of dev control are not. Quite the opposite, Cryptic proved many times already, that they can easily make adjustments on the exchange rate... damn them :) Don't get me wrong, I like them, but when two (maybe three?) updates ago the Dilly/Zen rate fell from the 250ish region down to 80... /shakefist.  No worries though, later I earned it all back :)

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