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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » A modern Star Wars sandbox is there for the taking

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83 posts found
  tom_gore

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

10/09/13 6:14:56 AM#61
Originally posted by karbonista
Licensing.

This should have been the end of this thread.

There just isn't a big enough crowd for such a game, believe it or not, to cover the insane licensing fees.

Repopulation seems your next best bet.

 

  Hatefull

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/04
Posts: 745

Your tears make my gun work better.

10/09/13 6:18:36 AM#62


Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by actionreaction

Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by actionreaction

Originally posted by RogueTroopa None of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated.     I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star .  Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe.  Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
  It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games. The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience. Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands. So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters. And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait. People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right? And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal. The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
None of the games you stated are even in the league of Asheron's Call or pre patch SWG/EQ1.   and Portal is single player, and is only intellectual on a minimum level, it's like a rubix cube, once you know how it works it's very easy to understand.   The only thing that makes Witcher series is good is that the player base has been able to expand on them with Mods, like Fallouts and Oblivions, these games are absolute crap without 10000 hours of unofficial modders work.
Keep thinking like that if it stokes your ego that much.

And saying Portal is like a Rubix cube lol? Rubix code have an algorithm, there is none for the game. You have to think to go through it, study your environments to get through it.

Witcher was an absolute beast without any mods, witcher mods aren't even that popular when compared to Skyrim and Fallout.


Not sure where you get your 'facts' from but what he is describing has been done, and can be done. You are going on about single players games, this is an MMO site and an MMO discussion.

With new TB hard drives, and graphics cards the game he wants is possible, hell it was possible 10 or more years ago. I know this, because SWG had all the things he mentioned. Where you are coming from I have no idea. Right now PS2 can support 1K vs 1k vs 1K fights, yeah three factions of 1K people each going at it, with vehicles, infantry and aircraft. So tell me again, how it isn't possible to make what he is describing?

As far as hard mode, you are dead wrong there. This is why the hard games died or became niche games, the vast majority can't handle or don't want to handle finding their own way in a giant virtual world.

TL:DR - You are wrong, on all accounts.

If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  Steelhelm

Novice Member

Joined: 7/17/13
Posts: 41

10/09/13 6:22:08 AM#63
It's coming, it's coming. May the force be with you.

  Hatefull

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/04
Posts: 745

Your tears make my gun work better.

10/09/13 6:24:03 AM#64


Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by Hatefull  

Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by actionreaction

Originally posted by RogueTroopa None of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated.     I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star .  Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe.  Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
  It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games. The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience. Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands. So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.   And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait. People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right? And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal. The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
  Actually SWG was destroyed exactly because of haw hard it was to learn and play. DOTA 2 is PvP arena, not sure why you brought that up, but the 'challenge' there is made by other players. You are wrong, on all accounts. People want to know exactly where to go for the next quest, they want to be told which button to push and when. This is why EQ 1, and others games that do not hold your hand are 'niche' games. If they re-did EQ 1 today, right now just updated graphics, and engine etc it would STILL be niche because that game will kick your ass...off. Only a relatively few people really like a good hard challenge in video games. ERGO WoW is so massively popular still. It is freaking easy mode.
I brought Dota 2 up because of the level of difficulty, who cares whether it is brought up by AI or by other players.

If you played Dota 2 or any of the MOBA/ARTS, you would know the incredible amount of time it takes to learn those games. It's not like you pick and start. A minimum of 6 months is required to just get to a noob level. Same goes for EVE, learning it takes months and there is no AI "hand-held" path in it yet there are millions who play these games. Bottom line is if the game is that interesting and fun, people will go through hell to learn to play it.


I play DOTA 2 and eve. Eve tells you where to go for quests and how to get there. The game(s) we are talking about do not. Again, you don't really know what you are talking about. You make a lot of assumptions and act as if you are the only person to ever play multiple games. Well I can tell you I have played a good chunk of the market, and very few single player games, so my experience comes from MMO's yours obviously does not.

6 months to get good at DOTA 2? LMAO ok, I am done discussing with you now, that is a ridiculous statement and one I KNOW to be false. lol.

If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  Hatefull

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/04
Posts: 745

Your tears make my gun work better.

10/09/13 6:25:13 AM#65


Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by karbonista Licensing.
This should have been the end of this thread.

There just isn't a big enough crowd for such a game, believe it or not, to cover the insane licensing fees.

Repopulation seems your next best bet.

 


Agreed, and yes I am looking forward to that game.

If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  skyline385

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/13
Posts: 601

10/09/13 6:27:18 AM#66
Originally posted by Hatefull

 


Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by Hatefull  

Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by actionreaction

Originally posted by RogueTroopa None of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated.     I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star .  Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe.  Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
  It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games. The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience. Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands. So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.   And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait. People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right? And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal. The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
  Actually SWG was destroyed exactly because of haw hard it was to learn and play. DOTA 2 is PvP arena, not sure why you brought that up, but the 'challenge' there is made by other players. You are wrong, on all accounts. People want to know exactly where to go for the next quest, they want to be told which button to push and when. This is why EQ 1, and others games that do not hold your hand are 'niche' games. If they re-did EQ 1 today, right now just updated graphics, and engine etc it would STILL be niche because that game will kick your ass...off. Only a relatively few people really like a good hard challenge in video games. ERGO WoW is so massively popular still. It is freaking easy mode.
I brought Dota 2 up because of the level of difficulty, who cares whether it is brought up by AI or by other players.

 

If you played Dota 2 or any of the MOBA/ARTS, you would know the incredible amount of time it takes to learn those games. It's not like you pick and start. A minimum of 6 months is required to just get to a noob level. Same goes for EVE, learning it takes months and there is no AI "hand-held" path in it yet there are millions who play these games. Bottom line is if the game is that interesting and fun, people will go through hell to learn to play it.


 

I play DOTA 2 and eve. Eve tells you where to go for quests and how to get there. The game(s) we are talking about do not. Again, you don't really know what you are talking about. You make a lot of assumptions and act as if you are the only person to ever play multiple games. Well I can tell you I have played a good chunk of the market, and very few single player games, so my experience comes from MMO's yours obviously does not.

6 months to get good at DOTA 2? LMAO ok, I am done discussing with you now, that is a ridiculous statement and one I KNOW to be false. lol.

You play EVE for the guided quests lol? Ok, buddy that shows your level in EVE.

And no 6 months in Dota? Who do you play with? Bots or the lowest-level learners/beginners from normal bracket matchmaking? This shows your level in Dota 2 as well.

  BizkitNL

Old School

Joined: 12/29/02
Posts: 2274

"Free to play, pay to win""

10/09/13 6:28:01 AM#67
Originally posted by Hatefull

 


Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by Hatefull  

Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by actionreaction

Originally posted by RogueTroopa None of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated.     I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star .  Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe.  Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
  It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games. The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience. Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands. So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.   And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait. People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right? And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal. The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
  Actually SWG was destroyed exactly because of haw hard it was to learn and play. DOTA 2 is PvP arena, not sure why you brought that up, but the 'challenge' there is made by other players. You are wrong, on all accounts. People want to know exactly where to go for the next quest, they want to be told which button to push and when. This is why EQ 1, and others games that do not hold your hand are 'niche' games. If they re-did EQ 1 today, right now just updated graphics, and engine etc it would STILL be niche because that game will kick your ass...off. Only a relatively few people really like a good hard challenge in video games. ERGO WoW is so massively popular still. It is freaking easy mode.
I brought Dota 2 up because of the level of difficulty, who cares whether it is brought up by AI or by other players.

 

If you played Dota 2 or any of the MOBA/ARTS, you would know the incredible amount of time it takes to learn those games. It's not like you pick and start. A minimum of 6 months is required to just get to a noob level. Same goes for EVE, learning it takes months and there is no AI "hand-held" path in it yet there are millions who play these games. Bottom line is if the game is that interesting and fun, people will go through hell to learn to play it.


 

I play DOTA 2 and eve. Eve tells you where to go for quests and how to get there. The game(s) we are talking about do not. Again, you don't really know what you are talking about. You make a lot of assumptions and act as if you are the only person to ever play multiple games. Well I can tell you I have played a good chunk of the market, and very few single player games, so my experience comes from MMO's yours obviously does not.

6 months to get good at DOTA 2? LMAO ok, I am done discussing with you now, that is a ridiculous statement and one I KNOW to be false. lol.

Hang on. Are you saying EvE is holding your hand?

Feel like trying Planetside 2? Get a headstart with the starter kit!

  skyline385

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/13
Posts: 601

10/09/13 6:30:43 AM#68
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by Hatefull

 


Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by Hatefull  

Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by actionreaction

Originally posted by RogueTroopa None of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated.     I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star .  Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe.  Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
  It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games. The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience. Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands. So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.   And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait. People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right? And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal. The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
  Actually SWG was destroyed exactly because of haw hard it was to learn and play. DOTA 2 is PvP arena, not sure why you brought that up, but the 'challenge' there is made by other players. You are wrong, on all accounts. People want to know exactly where to go for the next quest, they want to be told which button to push and when. This is why EQ 1, and others games that do not hold your hand are 'niche' games. If they re-did EQ 1 today, right now just updated graphics, and engine etc it would STILL be niche because that game will kick your ass...off. Only a relatively few people really like a good hard challenge in video games. ERGO WoW is so massively popular still. It is freaking easy mode.
I brought Dota 2 up because of the level of difficulty, who cares whether it is brought up by AI or by other players.

 

If you played Dota 2 or any of the MOBA/ARTS, you would know the incredible amount of time it takes to learn those games. It's not like you pick and start. A minimum of 6 months is required to just get to a noob level. Same goes for EVE, learning it takes months and there is no AI "hand-held" path in it yet there are millions who play these games. Bottom line is if the game is that interesting and fun, people will go through hell to learn to play it.


 

I play DOTA 2 and eve. Eve tells you where to go for quests and how to get there. The game(s) we are talking about do not. Again, you don't really know what you are talking about. You make a lot of assumptions and act as if you are the only person to ever play multiple games. Well I can tell you I have played a good chunk of the market, and very few single player games, so my experience comes from MMO's yours obviously does not.

6 months to get good at DOTA 2? LMAO ok, I am done discussing with you now, that is a ridiculous statement and one I KNOW to be false. lol.

Hang on. Are you saying EvE is holding your hand?

That's what i said lol. Apparently, he is playing EVE for the guided PvE quests and then he comes to talk about wanting extreme difficulty games.

I am almost sure by his reply that he has no idea about both of those games and is trying to base his opinions on random stuff he has heard.

  legendsolo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/11
Posts: 77

10/09/13 6:36:14 AM#69
Originally posted by tom_gore
Originally posted by karbonista
Licensing.

This should have been the end of this thread.

There just isn't a big enough crowd for such a game, believe it or not, to cover the insane licensing fees.

Repopulation seems your next best bet.

 

wasnt swg profitable till the end?

  Hatefull

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/04
Posts: 745

Your tears make my gun work better.

10/09/13 6:40:53 AM#70

 


Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by Hatefull  

Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by Hatefull  

Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by actionreaction

Originally posted by RogueTroopa None of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated.     I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star .  Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe.  Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
  It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games. The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience. Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands. So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.   And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait. People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right? And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal. The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
  Actually SWG was destroyed exactly because of haw hard it was to learn and play. DOTA 2 is PvP arena, not sure why you brought that up, but the 'challenge' there is made by other players. You are wrong, on all accounts. People want to know exactly where to go for the next quest, they want to be told which button to push and when. This is why EQ 1, and others games that do not hold your hand are 'niche' games. If they re-did EQ 1 today, right now just updated graphics, and engine etc it would STILL be niche because that game will kick your ass...off. Only a relatively few people really like a good hard challenge in video games. ERGO WoW is so massively popular still. It is freaking easy mode.
I brought Dota 2 up because of the level of difficulty, who cares whether it is brought up by AI or by other players.   If you played Dota 2 or any of the MOBA/ARTS, you would know the incredible amount of time it takes to learn those games. It's not like you pick and start. A minimum of 6 months is required to just get to a noob level. Same goes for EVE, learning it takes months and there is no AI "hand-held" path in it yet there are millions who play these games. Bottom line is if the game is that interesting and fun, people will go through hell to learn to play it.
  I play DOTA 2 and eve. Eve tells you where to go for quests and how to get there. The game(s) we are talking about do not. Again, you don't really know what you are talking about. You make a lot of assumptions and act as if you are the only person to ever play multiple games. Well I can tell you I have played a good chunk of the market, and very few single player games, so my experience comes from MMO's yours obviously does not. 6 months to get good at DOTA 2? LMAO ok, I am done discussing with you now, that is a ridiculous statement and one I KNOW to be false. lol.
Hang on. Are you saying EvE is holding your hand?

[mod edit]

Compared to SWG and EQ 1, yes Eve does a bit of hand holding with it's small PvE side. Now I completely understand (because I played eve for a couple years) that it ramps up and things get far more difficult when you start in on all the other aspects of the game but you still know where to go, and your nav will tell you how to get there for all your PvE missions.

If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  LoverNoFighter

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 334

SWG pre cu > all

10/09/13 6:51:46 AM#71
Originally posted by RogueTroopa
They said it was impossible to put a man on the moon. They said it was impossible to do the 4 min mile. 

 It's never been proven that man actually landed on the moon.

  skyline385

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/13
Posts: 601

10/09/13 6:52:36 AM#72
Originally posted by Hatefull

 


Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by Hatefull  

Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by Hatefull  

Originally posted by skyline385

Originally posted by actionreaction

Originally posted by RogueTroopa None of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated.     I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star .  Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe.  Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
  It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games. The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience. Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands. So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.   And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait. People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right? And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal. The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
  Actually SWG was destroyed exactly because of haw hard it was to learn and play. DOTA 2 is PvP arena, not sure why you brought that up, but the 'challenge' there is made by other players. You are wrong, on all accounts. People want to know exactly where to go for the next quest, they want to be told which button to push and when. This is why EQ 1, and others games that do not hold your hand are 'niche' games. If they re-did EQ 1 today, right now just updated graphics, and engine etc it would STILL be niche because that game will kick your ass...off. Only a relatively few people really like a good hard challenge in video games. ERGO WoW is so massively popular still. It is freaking easy mode.
I brought Dota 2 up because of the level of difficulty, who cares whether it is brought up by AI or by other players.   If you played Dota 2 or any of the MOBA/ARTS, you would know the incredible amount of time it takes to learn those games. It's not like you pick and start. A minimum of 6 months is required to just get to a noob level. Same goes for EVE, learning it takes months and there is no AI "hand-held" path in it yet there are millions who play these games. Bottom line is if the game is that interesting and fun, people will go through hell to learn to play it.
  I play DOTA 2 and eve. Eve tells you where to go for quests and how to get there. The game(s) we are talking about do not. Again, you don't really know what you are talking about. You make a lot of assumptions and act as if you are the only person to ever play multiple games. Well I can tell you I have played a good chunk of the market, and very few single player games, so my experience comes from MMO's yours obviously does not. 6 months to get good at DOTA 2? LMAO ok, I am done discussing with you now, that is a ridiculous statement and one I KNOW to be false. lol.
Hang on. Are you saying EvE is holding your hand?

 

[mod edit]

Compared to SWG and EQ 1, yes Eve does a bit of hand holding with it's small PvE side. Now I completely understand (because I played eve for a couple years) that it ramps up and things get far more difficult when you start in on all the other aspects of the game but you still know where to go, and your nav will tell you how to get there for all your PvE missions.

lol who even does PvE missions in EVE anyways? You have no idea about EVE, you hearing me there? Did you even play the game for more than an hour? And the only thing the Nav does is show you the optimum route to a system. If you think the absence of that makes you an elitist hardcore player, then buddy i got news for you. That's not what difficulty means ok?

[mod edit]

  Naral

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/10
Posts: 750

10/09/13 7:14:33 AM#73
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by karbonista
Licensing.

^ this

You can't sell the license to something for however many years then turn around and sell it again before the terms are up. EA has the rights to starwars mmos and Disney doesn't have any interest in making them. They'll make more on one movie than they'll ever make on an mmo.

I would agree with this a thousand times. And you didn't even mention costs of liscensing. Even if you *could* sell the liscense, it is so massively expensive to buy into the SW IP. I have a good friend who is an executive in a high end publishing house. They had to sell about a million dollars in SW merchandise before they even saw their first dollar come back to them. Granted, this was under Lucas, and the environment has changed a bit, but still, not a cheap IP to buy into.

And with MMORPGs sort of on the ropes right now, who the hell is going to invest that much into a genre that is percieved by many to be sinking. 

SWG 2, as much as I would love to see it, is not going to happen anytime soon, and probably not ever.

  MuffinStump

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/03
Posts: 475

10/09/13 7:37:53 AM#74

I know that it seems to many that a sandbox must allow for nearly unlimited exploration but I think a sandbox should simply allow someone to create their own 'content' within a given framework of internal rules. Create your own factions, economy, architecture and establish your own lore. Creating your own 'Named'/famous people through character interactions. The universe does not need to be created in total in order to give a legitimate base for player exploration and input.

All of this can be done within the confines of one big city. Take Seattle in the Shadowrun universe for example. With this established lore and core rules as a base you could create a living, breathing, detailed city and let the players shape the 'world'. A huge city can be more than enough playground if the ruleset allows for internal changes such as player created Arcologies, etc.

Over time you can expand the city or allow for other cities to spring up as needed without creating a lifeless procedurally generated universe.

  Mr.Kujo

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/12
Posts: 364

“Discussion is impossible with someone who claims not to seek the truth, but already to possess it.”

10/09/13 1:50:20 PM#75

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

The Star Wars IP is not a good basis for an MMORPG. Both MMORPGs that have been based on this IP have had serious flaws with regard to the Jedi. They are super heroes. They should be OP. So, everyone has to be a Jedi or nobody can be a Jedi. If you play mix and match where non-Jedi can compete with Jedi, then you really don't have Jedi.

That is true. Star Wars fits perfectly for a single player experience since it is always about hero saving the universe. The minute a second "chosen one" appears on the screen, and then the next, and then the next one it starts to break immersion. If anything, they should never allow players to be a jedi, but then game is going even more niche, since not many people want to be anything else but hero.

Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

Your point is still invalid because if you read David Braben's paper and notes he DID NOT modelled that whole universe back in Frontier:Elite. A lot of it was calculated.

You miss the point. It doesn't matter if some David wrote something in his papers, because the point is OP WANTS everything to be rendered. He wants to sit in a cantina, he said it himself, he wants a game on a space exploration scale, but with everything rendered to the point player can enter buildings.

Originally posted by TheRealBanango
this nonsense we don't know about...because that's the thing, we don't know.

Designing an mmo is complex, requires a big team, and many hours, yes, but should that stop people from making it?

We do know how long it takes to create current mmorpgs, since that is no secret, so you don't have to be developer, or even good at math to figure how long it would take to make a game that requires triple the resources or more...

No one will make a game for 20 years with a risk it will fail, it is not reasonable, if you can make few smaller games in the same amount of time. More chances that one of those small games will be successful, than to waste billions on one game, and get owned by players that are never satisfied and always find a reason to complain.

Originally posted by Dauzqul

Originally posted by skyline385

Because game limitations. You can not simply put everything in a game. Have you thought about this at all?

You would be the first employee I would fire. It's possible. Employees such as you would hinder innovation.

So you would fire the only competent guy in your company that actually knows how the industry works and gives you reasonable arguments against your irrational ideas, and would keep the big dreamers that obviously have no idea how to pull it off, but "you can do anything you want if you believe in it". Good for the competent guy.. at least he can find a company now that wont go down next year...
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10417

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

10/09/13 1:57:51 PM#76


Originally posted by LoverNoFighter

Originally posted by RogueTroopa They said it was impossible to put a man on the moon. They said it was impossible to do the 4 min mile. 
 It's never been proven that man actually landed on the moon.



I suppose the reflectors on the moon that are uniform enough to bounce a laser off of and get a coherent beam of light back on Earth were placed on the moon by aliens?

There are limitations, and trying to bypass them with happy thoughts is dumb. It's one thing for people who are completely ignorant of something to have doubts about it. Those people will have doubts about everything. It's something else entirely when people who are both knowledgeable and experienced in an industry acknowledge that there are limitations in trying to get something done.

The floor of the games industry is littered with companies that thought they could push past obvious limitations with nothing but happy thoughts and optimism.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Adamai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/06/10
Posts: 464

10/09/13 1:59:12 PM#77
Its possible swg was exactly that.. The space was awesome too.
  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3475

10/09/13 2:02:59 PM#78
I too wish the star trek holodeck could be built by a 'just do it' slogan and a piece of string.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  aspekx

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2151

10/09/13 2:28:13 PM#79

you guys need to let that shit go.

i was a huge fan and disappointed tremendously. i didn't do business with SOE for years after that fiasco.

feel free to miss it all you want, but for gahd's sake quit inflicting it on the rest of us, please.

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  MumboJumbo

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3117

Veni, Vidi, Converti

10/09/13 2:47:08 PM#80
Between The Repopulation and Star Citizen (and even Elite: Dangerous) the sci-fi niche is filling up. All stuff SW could have done and still been under the SWTOR budget.
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