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ArcheAge

ArcheAge 

General Discussion  » Russian Payment Model and Euro/NA Game Release

15 posts found
  Arenim

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/13
Posts: 3

 
OP  10/02/13 5:03:21 PM#1

Hello there!

I want to make a short summary of situation with ArcheAge in Russia. As far as I know it, the similar situation may evolve with the European version of ArcheAge.

1. As far as many of you already know, I guess, Sep, 28 Russian developing company Mail.ru, which is responsible for localization of ArcheAge in Russia, announced "the future economy model" for Russian version of the game.

The main point of this "economy model" by Mail.ru is partial replacement of ingame currency (gold) for a new currency, named “Arch”. It’s expected to be two main currencies for different purposes in Archeage:

Common gold (as it’s well known in many MMORPGs, and ArcheAge itself – in Korea or Japan). As usually in other games player gets it through questing, mobs-hunting, selling items to NPC-sellers. New thing is that currency can’t be traded between characters and is needed ONLY to purchase things from NPC characters (for examples, craft-supplies, seeds etc.).

Arch. Arches are meant to become a new and main ingame trading currency. It’s the only currency for broker-trading, it’s the currency for taxes (for the houses, farms and other realty in the game), it’s even needed to enlarge your backpack. It’s the only currency, which can be traded between characters. There are just few ways to get arches:

  • It can be dropped from raid-bosses (only open world bosses, not dungeon bosses; they would be non-stop killed by large communities with no doubt);
  • It can be purchased with Premium Account (30-days PA includes arches sufficient for month taxes for 1 small house and 1 farm – not more);
  • It can be bought for real money (rubles in Russia).

That’s all. There are no other ways for arches to get into the game. At all.

Of course, in theory, you can get them through broker if your goods would be good enough for someone to buy it for real money.

As far as you see, the main way for arches to get into the game and the only way to buy smth from broker in this economic model is to buy arches directly from seller – Mail.ru company in Russia.

For now it’s already announced, that you also would be able to buy some things “non-affecting the game process” with arches: for example character remodeling, server transfer, or, for example, items for fast Labor Points regeneration (ofc., it doesn’t affect the game process at all). And it’s just the small part of what we  already know.

The second point of the new f2p model, which will be implemented in Russia, is granting free accounts right to have realty – houses, farms etc. Free accounts can recover Labor Points (they have 500 LP max and recover 2 poins every 5 min; Premium Accounts have 3000 points and recover 5 point every 5 minutes). As far as you see, everyone can have unlimited accounts for accumulating Labor Points – even bots. Bots with farms.  

That model was already partly discussed ArcheageSource and here.

2. Russian community had met this “new economic system” very poorly: noone wants to play another "Pay to win" game, when the only way to get the ingame currency is a donation. 

Here is, for example, a vote poll -- "Will You play mail.ru game after this annoncement?". "Red" means "Yes",  "Blue" means "No". And remember, that part of “yeses” are those who are ready to play obt or a first month  just to see the game – no more (according to the comments). 

 

3. Mail.ru stated that this policy is designed by XLGames and it's target audience is not only Russia, but all the world.

As MriN said from this source

1. The distribution model of AA created by XL Games, but not by mail.ru

2. This model considered as world model, not for Russia only

3. Not excluded possibility of two models same time p2p and f2p with prem, but in future.

 

Today Oct 3, the producers of Mail.ru made one more statement: there will not be any other payment system (other f2p or p2p system) in Russia, cause the position of XLGames is very strict:

           one version for one region.

The only f2p model, which can be supported by XLGames in the future is an “arch-based” model as in  Russia. Though XLGames offer every localization company a choice of p2p or f2p model. As far as producers of Mail.ru know, and as far as we may rely on their opinion, Trion didn’t choose the payment system yet.

Now, here are some thoughts about all the situation.

1. Mail.ru is an organization well-known among Russian gamers, which fail any project they get.

It is their business-model - to buy a successfull project, drain enogh money as quickly as it possible and close it. They've done same things with many projects, including MMOs (the most known in Europe, I guess, is "Allods Online"; for example a _part_ of best character gear, specifically items for gear improvement, in cash-shop of Allods Online which can’t be get  ingame has a price of 1.300.000 Russian rubles = a little less than 30.000 EUR). That’s just for you to understand what means “donation” in games of Mail.ru 

 

2. A huge number of Russians are going to play everywhere but not at Russia servers.

Really. We're tired of Russian publishers (especially of mail.ru), they produce crap products and turn into crap anything they can get. We don't trust them. We don't want to have any business with them. We will better learn Japan. Even if mail.ru will turn "anything back" (they already said there’s no way to do it) we're pretty sure they will wait us to gain some in a game and THEN will change game mechanics to enforce us to pay for every our move. Situation was the same with Allods Online, for example.

 

3. Euro release is the main place we're looking for.

Well, English is much easier to learn and speak than Japan or Korean and Europe/America communities are really more like us

 

So. Forget about mail.ru. Our main goal now -- to explain the situation to Trion. Because if they will make "arches" like mail.ru -- all the west archeage localization will be totally ruined.

What can You do?

1. Sign the petition. This is not for mail.ru. This is for Trion really. I do believe that European publisher may and will listen to his community (unlike it's usually in Russia).

2. Spread this information (not exactly this message) around Europe/NA player communities. Write to Trion forums/support/...

We -- all the western players -- need this game localized just from any publisher, and Trion's move is the last chance.

 

I will be glad to answer all your questions about f2p model of Archeage "for the world localization" - as far as we get information here.


 

  Karteli

Elite Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

10/02/13 5:38:15 PM#2

1. As far as many of you already know, I guess, Sep, 28 Russian developing company Mail.ru, which is responsible for localization of ArcheAge in Russia, announced "the future economy model" for Russian version of the game.

The main point of this "economy model" by Mail.ru is partial replacement of ingame currency (gold) for a new currency, named “Arch”. It’s expected to be two main currencies for different purposes in Archeage:

Common gold (as it’s well known in many MMORPGs, and ArcheAge itself – in Korea or Japan). As usually in other games player gets it through questing, mobs-hunting, selling items to NPC-sellers. New thing is that currency can’t be traded between characters and is needed ONLY to purchase things from NPC characters (for examples, craft-supplies, seeds etc.).

 
Arc isn't gold (ie currency).  It's a cash-shop currency in other games (think gems).  There is no replacement per-say.
 
You have many ideas presented, but the one I agree with is that Trion should not adapt mail.ru's model.
 
There is (to my knowledge) no direct sales or "gold", as you assert.  I do agree that there is a sale of power via labor points, which is probably equally as bad as currency sales.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  Arenim

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/13
Posts: 3

 
OP  10/02/13 5:47:40 PM#3
> Arc isn't gold (ie currency).  It's a cash-shop currency in other games (think gems).  There is no replacement per-say.

 

It is de jure cash-shop currency and de facto -- gold replacement, because it's main currency players can exchange. They can't exchange gold, can't exchange ancient coins, only cash-shop currency is exchangeable and it's main currency for broker.

Name it any word, but it IS main currency. And yes, it CAN be bought for real money. And yes, this is terrible.

 

  Karteli

Elite Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

10/02/13 6:03:15 PM#4
Originally posted by Arenim
> Arc isn't gold (ie currency).  It's a cash-shop currency in other games (think gems).  There is no replacement per-say.

 

It is de jure cash-shop currency and de facto -- gold replacement, because it's main currency players can exchange. They can't exchange gold, can't exchange ancient coins, only cash-shop currency is exchangeable and it's main currency for broker.

Name it any word, but it IS main currency. And yes, it CAN be bought for real money. And yes, this is terrible.

 

You are either wrong, or you need to provide a source to back the claims.

 

Arc is cash-shop currency.  Gold is in-game currency.  In the Russian model, cash-shop currency cannot be exchanged for in-game currency, gold.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  Grahor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/08/11
Posts: 854

10/02/13 6:18:00 PM#5

OP is correct in his description of Arches as main currency fo trade between players in game. I ve read it right now in mail.ru archage faq. Gold will not be used for trade between players ingame; ingame auction will use arches only.

 

whole situation is described by OP exactly as it is described in mail.ru archage faq page.

  Arenim

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/13
Posts: 3

 
OP  10/02/13 6:23:00 PM#6

> Arc is cash-shop currency.  Gold is in-game currency. 

>In the Russian model, cash-shop currency cannot be exchanged for in-game currency, gold.

We have misunderstanding.

Yes, gold is -- de jure -- in-game currency. But is can be traded with other players (!), cannot be used as broker currency (!!) and can be used ONLY to trade with NPC.

Cash-currency (arcs)  is -- de jure -- cash-shop currency but it's "usage pattern" is like it's really in-game currency. So, I definetely call arcs as main player currency because gold become totally useless.

Source to back claims: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_DiWURD2lU . Sorry for Russian language, but I can't make subtitles for this video :(
  Apraxis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1242

10/03/13 4:38:56 PM#7
I really hope Trion will pick up the P2P Model. And i do hope we will get some more infos from Trion soonish.. i am really sick of waiting.
  MMOredfalcon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/13
Posts: 68

10/08/13 7:14:14 PM#8
Originally posted by Apraxis
I really hope Trion will pick up the P2P Model. And i do hope we will get some more infos from Trion soonish.. i am really sick of waiting.

I'm personally thinking that Trion has a F2P and a P2P system put in place for Rift. So I think they'd pick it up for AA eventually. 

  Fubika24

Novice Member

Joined: 4/05/13
Posts: 7

10/13/13 6:06:18 AM#9
Im suprised that no one mentioned, that this model is well and alive in age of wushu or wulin. Yes the only real way to get trade currency into the game is via the cash shop and that is a 100% intended. In Aow, however with the conversion rates and prices in game you would have to spend an obscene amount of money, to get too far ahead of others. It is possible but requires a huge investment, and people who havent payed a single dime have the chance to get their hands on this currency by trading .
  JoeyMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1254

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

10/13/13 8:30:18 AM#10
Originally posted by Arenim

*snip*

1. Mail.ru is an organization well-known among Russian gamers, which fail any project they get.

It is their business-model - to buy a successfull project, drain enough money as quickly as it possible and close it. They've done same things with many projects, including MMOs (the most known in Europe, I guess, is "Allods Online"; for example a _part_ of best character gear, specifically items for gear improvement, in cash-shop of Allods Online which can’t be get  ingame has a price of 1.300.000 Russian rubles = a little less than 30.000 EUR). That’s just for you to understand what means “donation” in games of Mail.ru  

2. A huge number of Russians are going to play everywhere but not at Russia servers.

Really. We're tired of Russian publishers (especially of mail.ru), they produce crap products and turn into crap anything they can get. We don't trust them. We don't want to have any business with them. We will better learn Japan. Even if mail.ru will turn "anything back" (they already said there’s no way to do it) we're pretty sure they will wait us to gain some in a game and THEN will change game mechanics to enforce us to pay for every our move. Situation was the same with Allods Online, for example.

*snip*

If anyone has any confidence in mail.ru, then it would be wise to know the history of how GPotato (Gala.net) was forced by mail.ru to turn a decent game into a pure forced to pay (A LOT) or be screwed bigtime game. Allods Online has been mentioned, it's a painful experience best avoided altogether, even if it was fun in the beginning.

They don't care about the games they take over, they don't care about the community. They care about the numbers and will drain as much money as they possibly can from the people who just saw their favorite game turned over to the wolves.

If Archage is your biggest hope for a decent MMO then be warned.

  User Deleted
10/14/13 10:19:23 AM#11
WRONG  !!! not 2 main currency BUT one main currency ARKI ~ Real money   gold is almost useless
  SavageHorizon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1434

10/14/13 10:25:34 AM#12

They have cancelled the payment system the op is going on about, this was done due to lash backs from the russian gaming community.

They are now letting the community decide between three options.

http://www.mmoculture.com/2013/10/archeage-russian-publisher-agrees-to-revamp-business-model/

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  jmlane223

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/24/11
Posts: 81

10/19/13 10:02:50 AM#13
Know what is funny, this is pretty much the exact payment model Age of Wushu uses
  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 3766

10/19/13 10:13:06 AM#14

Trion will most likely have a model that is very similar to Rift F2P.

The second possibility (less than 1% chance) is P2P.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6482

10/19/13 10:15:09 AM#15
Originally posted by jmlane223
Know what is funny, this is pretty much the exact payment model Age of Wushu uses

I saw that too in the mmorpg main article on this topic. There where some subtle differences that caused some concern, but certainly the same core idea.

 

This system is 100% based on the developers need/greed. In Wushu the gold(arki) to silver conversion rate is absurd. It makes no sense to buy gold then buy in game items. Inflation has been almost non existent. In fact the economy is coming out of a deep deflation. 

 

Now, if Snail decided they need money now, they could "improve" the conversion and open the flood gates. Item prices would sky rocket making it really hard for people who don't buy gold. The question is will XLgames launch AA with the flood gates open, or even worse open them later. 

 

edit - DMK and I have discussed this one before :) His position is that Trion will have more pull as a traditional western publisher than Mail.ru. My position is that XLgames is in full control of AA, like Sanil is with Wushu, and their western publishers are merly hosts. Time will tell :)