Trending Games | World of Warcraft | EVE Online | ArcheAge | Guild Wars 2

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,815,003 Users Online:0
Games:731  Posts:6,213,913
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: What's Next For Subscriptions?

3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search
52 posts found
  SBFord

Associate Editor - News Manager

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 13195

 
OP  10/07/13 5:12:11 PM#1

In our latest Free Zone column, we take a look at what may potentially lie ahead for subscriptions. Can we go back to "the way we were" as in the heady early days of MMOs? See what we think and then leave your own ideas in the comments.

Furthermore, I don't see any other projects on the horizon that have the potential to flip the world or even just North America back to the way things were. Titan used to carry such hope for some, but I always thought they were being overly optimistic, as if stating what they want in the form of a prediction would make it more likely to happen. Now though, we've been told it won't be a subscription MMORPG. Granted Blizzard's Mike Morhaime didn't explicitly exclude the possibility it will be a monthly fee-based non-MMORPG. I welcome anyone who'd like to make a case for this scenario to do so in the comments. 

Read more of Richard Aihoshi's The Free Zone: What's Next for Subscriptions?

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

  FlyinDutchman87

Novice Member

Joined: 10/25/10
Posts: 164

10/08/13 3:00:59 PM#2

I agree.  The masses will want there games FTP and Micro transactioned. Those who want more "Niche"  games with specific features will pay for them.

It's like retail, Most people shop at walmart because they can get a decent for cheap. Players who want something more specialized will get a more customized experience and pay a premium for it....

 

It's almost like capitalism or something......

 

  User Deleted
10/08/13 3:01:51 PM#3
As long as there continues to be a quality difference, subscription model needs no change. Outside of the amazing Gw2 buy to play and Swtor's model, f2p quality is way behind what sub games offer and even at that Swtor is way off the mark too. Current subs need fear not, and future subs need only deliver quality. If your game lacks quality you better just go f2p.
  FlawSGI

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1404

All of history is a lie. The truth depends on who does the listening, and who does the telling...

10/08/13 3:12:26 PM#4
Originally posted by Rockniss
As long as there continues to be a quality difference, subscription model needs no change. Outside of the amazing Gw2 buy to play and Swtor's model, f2p quality is way behind what sub games offer and even at that Swtor is way off the mark too. Current subs need fear not, and future subs need only deliver quality. If your game lacks quality you better just go f2p.

I agree with this except for the SWTOR portion. I think what they did with the F2P conversion was a blatant gutting and I refuse to play it. I have never played a MMO that I payed for only to have it go F2P later and take away stuff that I had when I purchased the game. They should have left a lot of the unlocks available for the people that had played the game before the conversion since we were paying customers at once. 

I agree that quality can keep the subscription types viable but sadly in a flooded market it has become tough to differentiate yourself enough to hold onto players when they can easily go elsewhere. Also I think it is sad how developers have adapted the mindset that if you aren't retaining a million + then the ship is sinking and drastic changes need to be made.  I personally do not agree with sub + box + expansions  let alone throwing in cash shops, but I detest F2P and all of the bottlenecks that come with playing those games. I am sure I will find middle ground somewhere eventually but right now GW2 has offered the best bang for my buck even though I hardly play like I used to.

RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  Sephastus

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/15/09
Posts: 408

10/08/13 3:17:40 PM#5

People need to stop diluting themselves thinking this is one pay method vs another. In the end it is all about how you make revenue.

 

Subscription games were/are all about delivering a full product and having built in time sinks to get you to continue paying the monthly fee far into the future.

 

Free to Play game were/are all about instant gratification. If you have the money, you can get what you want practically instantly, as long as you pay the money

 

Pay to Play games, like LoTR and GW2 were/are about getting all the money they can get at the beginning through a lifetime subscription (GW2's initial cost), and then continually get money from those that buy from their cash shops and expansions.

 

All of these pay methods are just ways for the companies to get to your wallets. Some in more obvious ways than others. Free to Play are getting a reputation for being cash grabs because of how obvious their "give me money, and get this benefit" deals, but GW2 is also in this boat by charging a huge initial cost, while putting a cash shop, as well as a concealed RMT. Nothing wrong with any of this, but there is a saying: "A fool and his gold are quickly parted."

 

If subscription models do bite the dust, so will the original MMORPG players, since most of us are no fools. Dollar per dollar, you can get much more out of a subscription model, than a pieced together free to play model. And yes, GW2 is a subscription model of sorts... you just pay for the lifetime subscription up front instead of monthly installments.

 
  OSF8759

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/07
Posts: 288

10/08/13 3:24:34 PM#6

Allods Online recently launched a subscription server, so we can watch that with interest to see how the world's first f2p-to-p2p conversion performs. My prediction on that one is it will not be very successful and Allods will continue to be the irrelevant-to-the-industry game that it is. So irrelevant that it wasn't even mentioned in this article.

  Drakephire

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 357

10/08/13 3:28:09 PM#7

Faulty premise Richard.  All Western MMOs begin as subscription models.  The trend has been subscriptions transitioning to f2p models.  Wildstar, ESO and others aren't breaking any new ground, nor are they reclaiming lost ground. They're simply continuing the tradition.

 

The only western title breaking this model is Everquest Next/landmark with is launching f2p.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5630

10/08/13 3:31:20 PM#8

Interesting article. Here's my take:

Niche games may be able to pull off a subscription and are the most likely candidate. They would also feel the impact of attrition much more dramatically than larger games. This makes the subscription model even more risky for them than it does for larger budget, broader appeal titles. If they can recoup the development debt before numbers dwindle then they could theoretically live off a much smaller core base than most games. This is why I think DAoC and other first gen MMOs can still retain their sub. They'll never get massive development like productive titles will, but the playerbase will likely accept that if they've stayed around long enough.

Massive budget (aka AAA) titles will likely try and launch with a triple dip cash grab like TESO and Wildstar. These two titles have nothing to offer any other previous title has. What I think they're hoping for is the very common gamer behavior of jumping on the latest release. Even if, or more realistically when, those gamers move on the publisher will still have garnered a box fee, some amount of sub revenue, and possibly even some cash shop purchases. I believe they are gambling on enough initial surge to recoup dev costs before they need to shift revenue models. When profits drop below a threshold they will shift revenues on the fly so to speak, and continue with a more open revenue system. Doing this they have the potential to maximize their total revenue generation at some expense to the playerbase. I think games that have less confidence in what they offer will go this way because they can collect a lot more revenue before they're taken to task by the general mmo gamer community.

There will still be major titles that will launch sub-free and possibly not even offer a sub-option. I'm not sure why these won't go for the cash grab in the same way the sub-locked games will, but I think it's because they feel overall numbers will provide a better revenue stream. These games I feel have confidence in what they offer because they're only going to make money if they're good enough to retain players. I can see EQ:N going this or a similar route. A happy compromise for these games might be a box fee with no sub and a free trial period (B2P). B2P would be a middle ground I could easily support.

Hopefully what is next for subs is games that offer packages like Tera where you can play the game entirely through the cash shop or sub for buffs and bonuses that suit a more dedicated hardcore player. I like this hybrid model.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5630

10/08/13 3:34:20 PM#9
Originally posted by Drakephire

Faulty premise Richard.  All Western MMOs begin as subscription models.  The trend has been subscriptions transitioning to f2p models.  Wildstar, ESO and others aren't breaking any new ground, nor are they reclaiming lost ground. They're simply continuing the tradition.

 

The only western title breaking this model is Everquest Next/landmark with is launching f2p.

Neverwinter is a western game, published by a western division of an eastern company, that launched F2P. Your premise that all western games launch sub-locked is wrong.

Lineage is a Korean sub-only game published by a Korean publisher and has never been F2P.

Dragon's Prophet is an eastern F2P game published by a western division of a Japanese company.

There don't seem to be any absolute rules at this time.

 

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Zapzap

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/13
Posts: 207

10/08/13 3:50:52 PM#10
I am not sure what F2P trend he is talking about.  I can only count one AAA game ever not being P2P at release and that was GW2 and it is debateable if you can call GW2 a MMO.
  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11393

10/08/13 4:00:08 PM#11
Originally posted by Drakephire

The only western title breaking this model is Everquest Next/landmark with is launching f2p.

FreeRealms and Planetside 2 both launched as ftp but they are not tradtional mmos

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4573

10/08/13 4:25:41 PM#12
This has absolutely nothing to do with niche games and revenues from the masses or whatever you want to call it. This is not about what MMO gamers have come to expect and thus the business model has to be adjusted accordingly. It's the other way around. There is only one reason the industry has turned in the direction it has. No developer has published a game that has been worthy of a subscription. Developers need to start putting out some long term quality here. That's all it is. FF14 is trying to break the trend and it appears to have a real shot at it. All you need is a game that gives its players a reason to keep coming back and you can charge a sub. All these games are short term experiences with little to carry them after a couple months. How will that pull subs?

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  acidblood

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 240

10/08/13 4:35:20 PM#13

Maybe I just don't like F2P as a concept (it ruins the design) but looking back each and every MMO that I have ever put significant time into is sub based. I say is because while some of them have since moved to F2P I am yet to, and probably never will, go back.

So what's the future of subscriptions? Quality. Plain and simple, make a quality game and I will pay for it, make a poor game and I don't care how 'free' you claim it is.

Edit: PS, currently playing (and happily paying a sub for) FFXIV.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5630

10/08/13 4:43:38 PM#14

For me, no game is worth committing to a $200 per year payment or you lose access to it. Even if my vision of a "perfect" game isn't worth that to me. I don't mind spending $200 a year on a game, but I don't want that as a doormat I must cross to enter. No game has that value and I can't see the potential for one having that value no matter what it delivers.

Ten to fifteen years ago it was different. MMOs offered something in an environment that was new. We were gaming in a way we never had before. The approach was new and fairly costly all around. We were exploring gaming on an entirely new frontier. I didn't mind the cost of entry or maintenance at that time. Now times are different. The value has diminished for me.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 1986

10/08/13 5:04:22 PM#15
Originally posted by Torvaldr

Ten to fifteen years ago it was different. MMOs offered something in an environment that was new. We were gaming in a way we never had before. The approach was new and fairly costly all around. We were exploring gaming on an entirely new frontier. I didn't mind the cost of entry or maintenance at that time. Now times are different. The value has diminished for me.

Exactly. I wrote this in most f2p threads as well... and not only the market changed, the playerbase changed too with the time, while "The value has diminished" for many veteran players, for the new ones there wasn't any mentioned value in the first place.

For a kid who arrived into the genre 3-4 years ago (and is/will be the target audience for the following couple of years) the whole concept is dumb... there are dozens of games with more or less similar offering, for example two of them won't allow him to play without flashing the card and pay a subscription ahead - that two games are disappearing from the radar the very same moment to him.

That's why I kept saying since years that f2p is not simply an eastern thing and it's inevitable here as well... if you want to predict the close future, check the lower end of your target group :)

 

Edit: and I don't mean the kids of the veteran gamers of course, who are playing with their parents in W101 / P101 or LotRO, those have a nice headstart in the subject. But in our generation gaming was only a narrow, geeky thing, so the vast majority of the kids today don't have a gamer parent. For those, easy access is worth much more than some "quality issues" they don't even know about... With Richard's column starter phrase, if only I had a dollar for each time I heard "I know you still play, can you suggest a neat game for the kid? Something free."

  MMOredfalcon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/13
Posts: 114

10/08/13 6:13:23 PM#16
Originally posted by OSF8759

Allods Online recently launched a subscription server, so we can watch that with interest to see how the world's first f2p-to-p2p conversion performs. My prediction on that one is it will not be very successful and Allods will continue to be the irrelevant-to-the-industry game that it is. So irrelevant that it wasn't even mentioned in this article.

 Allods Online is not the first to do that. Tera and Rift also have F2P as well as a monthly subscription option. But Allods is having one specific server just for those who choose a sub model. So those who only want free will continue as usual. I think that idea is great. Let all the freebee players on their own, and give the subscribers their own server. 

 
  Anireth

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 393

10/08/13 7:10:21 PM#17

I agree with Tovaldr.

The problem with P2P is, that no matter how much money you poured into it, the moment you stop, you lose it. Pay $15 per month for five years, box, expansions, cash shop (most if not all P2P games feature a cash shop, thats never was anything F2P exclusive)..so easily $1000. You stop paying, it's all gone. Well, not completely, they don't delete it, but as long as you don't pay, it doesn't really matter.

Also, while $15 for a month is not much when compared to a visit to the cinema, where you shell out $15 for two hours, it is much when compared to to other games that cost at  $60, so four months. Many P2P MMOs still require you to buy it and only give you one or two months for free, if at all. And i don't know anyone who paid anything close to $200 in a F2P (there sure are, i just don't know anyone..).

I also don't think you can notice whether someone prefers F2P, B2P or P2P when playing with him, meaning, servers with differenent payement model would only seperate the community. What if my friends prefers subscription based because he gets everything straight away, while i prefer to take it slowly, buying content packs, bank tabs or char slots etc. when i need them? We can't play together then or what?

Another thing is, i don't see any actual quaility difference between F2P and P2P games. When i see someone playing WoW, it's exactly the same as every other game. Go there, accept quest, don't even read the description, go to next NPC, slay some arbitrary number of monsters that - what surprise - are found nearby, rinse and repeat. I played Tera, which was P2P for quite some time (two years in Korea, one and a half in Japan, a half each in US and EU). Did they remove all the cool stuff P2P games have when they turned it F2P? If they had so cool stuff, how come it didn't live up to it's expectations?

SWTOR reportedly did cost around $200 million and was intended as P2P game. They had to turn F2P, and when i look at i know why. Unless they also hid the good stuff, but why did it fail when they had it then?

This quality difference is a myth. Quality difference doesn't come from the payment model, it comes from the amount of money poured into development, and what the team was able to make with it. I guess that most people agree that it wasn't much in case of SWTOR. WoW did cost way less, something around a sixth, and yet it is believed to be the better game.

Minecraft was developed without any budget whatsoever so to say, given the amount of time Notch worked on it it was probably something in the thenthousands or so, doesn't really matter, it was orders of magnitude lower then any AAA title. Still it became one of the most influential games of recent. The amount of money you put into is irrelevant, it depends what you make out of it. Unless you imply that developers actively developer a worse game (speaking about core features like visuals, gameplay etc., not how much backpack space you have..) because it's supposed to be F2P, there is no way there can even be a difference.

And with games like Vindictus that look stunning even when based on the dated Source engine, and has (unmatched?) physics-based action combat, even that is proven wrong right away. Of course, Nexon doesn't exactly handle the game the way it deserved, but i have yet to see a P2P game that strays that far from the regular formula of having a holy trinity, hotkey pushing etc. Not even GW2, which at least reduced the trinity aspect, comes anywhere close.

--

Speaking of it, why is Guild Wars 2 not an MMO? I heard that about the first Guild Wars a lot too, and it was already stupid. All "you" care about is your precious endgame, with consists of raids, so instances. Guild Wars was all instanced, but that should have made "you" happy, as they skipped the pretense of open world and stuff.

Guild Wars 2 now actually features raid bosses in an open world, and also instanced dungeons etc. The only thing different is that "there is no endgame" (which is only partially true, of course there is a difference between when you are levelling and once you got all skills, the best amor you can afford etc., the difference is just way smaller).

So the first wasn't an MMO because it was all instanced (despite players doing instanced content in "real" MMOs all day), and the second one is not an MMO despite the fact that it got rid of all t hat? Huh? Make up your mind, will you?

 

 

I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore

  mugoblue

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/11/12
Posts: 2

10/08/13 7:45:16 PM#18
Why does sub based have to mean $15 per month? If you could get more than twice the sub base at $8/mo, aren't you better off? I just can't figure out why $15 is the magic number. Perhaps another lazy way of simply copying what WoW's been doing and not looking at other sub options?
  Fearum

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1089

10/08/13 8:15:36 PM#19
Originally posted by mugoblue
Why does sub based have to mean $15 per month? If you could get more than twice the sub base at $8/mo, aren't you better off? I just can't figure out why $15 is the magic number. Perhaps another lazy way of simply copying what WoW's been doing and not looking at other sub options?

If the price of the sub is too much for you to afford like $15/month, the players should really rethink their priorities in life before spending money they can't afford on a game they shouldn't be playing when they should be working/going to school to get a better job to be able to have an extra $15 a month to waste on entertainment.

Its not about the price tag, its about the quality of the product when it comes to companies being able to pull off a sub model. I would pay $30 a month for a high quality game as long as I felt like the entertainment the game was providing was entertaining.

  jbombard

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/06/08
Posts: 459

10/08/13 11:33:07 PM#20
Originally posted by Fearum
Originally posted by mugoblue
Why does sub based have to mean $15 per month? If you could get more than twice the sub base at $8/mo, aren't you better off? I just can't figure out why $15 is the magic number. Perhaps another lazy way of simply copying what WoW's been doing and not looking at other sub options?

If the price of the sub is too much for you to afford like $15/month, the players should really rethink their priorities in life before spending money they can't afford on a game they shouldn't be playing when they should be working/going to school to get a better job to be able to have an extra $15 a month to waste on entertainment.

Its not about the price tag, its about the quality of the product when it comes to companies being able to pull off a sub model. I would pay $30 a month for a high quality game as long as I felt like the entertainment the game was providing was entertaining.

I think you hit on this but I would like to reiterate It isn't about the price.  It is about the value proposition.  The subscription price simply needs to provide enough value every month to subscribers every month to warrant the price of the sub.  That said most games struggle to provide $15 worth of value to their customers.  

 

Now how people define value is subjective.  That said, DLC and F2P games have changed how people define value.  $15 worth of DLC is usually a good sized piece of DLC.  In the days of old people would pay just for the right to connect and play, F2P has changed how we perceive that.  The right to connect and play is a given, we expect more now for our money.

 

If a company can provide $30 worth of content every month, I too would pay that for quality new content.  The things is $5-$10 is probably closer to the amount of value(IMHO) that most sub games provide every month. 

 

It isn't about what you can afford, it is about how people perceive value and fairness.  Nobody likes to feel like they are being treated like a sucker.

3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search