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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » New Poll! Death Penalty Poll

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89 posts found
  apocoluster

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/15/07
Posts: 1299

\m/,

10/08/13 8:16:20 AM#21
Originally posted by Ender4

Games with no death penalty are just awful. Even GW2 gives you a repair build and that game is about as casual friendly as you can get. I chose the middle of the road one just because I think if you make the penalty too harsh you get people away from exploration and that seems to be a key part of this games development.

I was gonna say how stupid a idea that was and how nobody would want to play such a passive role any more. Then I remembered we are going to be able to switch out classes.  I changed my mind.  ( a rare occurance on these forums) and I think it would be a

great idea =)

No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  sanshi44

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1057

10/08/13 8:19:31 AM#22
I voted for corpse runs, However XP loss and all that is fine aswell. The one important thing for me is that Death is acualy somthing u realy want to advoid not like nowaday games where they are just fast travel. Death penalty helps with immersion and bring the world alive atleast to me it does.
  MMOredfalcon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/13
Posts: 130

10/08/13 8:24:48 AM#23
Originally posted by FinalFikus

Ya  I'd love to see a battle fatigue type DP again.

An entertainer in swg was a completely unique experience that no one has even attempted to duplicate except maybe LOTRO. But there was no gameplay elements to it.

Ill gladly take that DP if healing battle fatigue required a bard. That was a fantastic Death penalty and system to remove it.

 

 I agree with this. It was a good system. It made death in the game effective. But it also made people more sociable. SWG was great when you'd run into the cantina and there was always a large group of people there chatting and the entertainers who were generally quite friendly. So while death was a pain in the arse,  it also meant people had to actually interact! A bit of downtime and social interaction. Imagine that, people having to interact in an MMO...maybe that would be taking it too far....

  Anthur

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 626

10/08/13 8:37:04 AM#24
Originally posted by Elikal
I am not sure Democracy is a good way to ensure quality. :/

Don't worry. SOE doesn't care much for the poll results anyway. But that doesn't guarantee quality either. ;)

I am quite sure SOE will choose one of the two options at the bottom.

  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 341

10/08/13 11:23:09 AM#25

This round table poll completely puzzles me. Considering all the other decisions SOE as taken I'm 99,9% certain that they don't want any type of death penalty in the game that goes beyond the ghost-runs in WoW. Anything else would be a complete turnaround.

 

It seems like they are digging themselves a grave with this poll. I'm sure that if someone other then SOE had made this poll, there would be s lot of people saying that it was totally biased towards a harsh death penalty. It isn't, but at least it lets us express very clearly what we want. It even includes permadeath which is a quite extreme feature.

By contrast the poll about fast-travel was kind of rigged, because it didn't included a single option that was clearly against fast-travel.

 

So why did they make the poll like this. They must have guessed beforehand that the community would vote this way. At least I would have guessed that. One possibility would be that ther is some kind of internal struggle. Maybe there is someone in the dev-team that wants to demonstrate that the community doesn't like the whole casual route the game has taken.

 

It is also interesting that the poll on this forum shows a similar picture as the one on the round table. So the opinion on this forum is actually quite representative.

  apocoluster

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/15/07
Posts: 1299

\m/,

10/08/13 11:28:07 AM#26
Originally posted by MMOredfalcon
Originally posted by FinalFikus

Ya  I'd love to see a battle fatigue type DP again.

An entertainer in swg was a completely unique experience that no one has even attempted to duplicate except maybe LOTRO. But there was no gameplay elements to it.

Ill gladly take that DP if healing battle fatigue required a bard. That was a fantastic Death penalty and system to remove it.

 

 I agree with this. It was a good system. It made death in the game effective. But it also made people more sociable. SWG was great when you'd run into the cantina and there was always a large group of people there chatting and the entertainers who were generally quite friendly. So while death was a pain in the arse,  it also meant people had to actually interact! A bit of downtime and social interaction. Imagine that, people having to interact in an MMO...maybe that would be taking it too far....

Really friendly Ents?  No sayin your lying. No real point in doing so.  Just all the Ents I ever saw were non talking bots.  Still I wold like to see a similar class Ingame 

No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  Ender4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2096

10/08/13 12:06:30 PM#27

They assume the community will vote a certain way and if the results completely catch them by surprise they can discuss whether they want to modifier their opinions at all. The poll isn't going to really change the game but it does give them some feedback as to whether or not they are understanding the community.

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1744

10/08/13 12:30:35 PM#28

My vote goes to small penalty (corpse-runs). And I have a very good reason.

Harsh death penalties tend to reduce risk taking and experimentation. My favorite thing to do in MMO's is see if odd character builds can work (not always efficient, but usually very fun) and how hard I can push my character. "Last time I was able to take on 3 mobs, but now I tweaked this maybe I can take 5! . . . nope, died. Better rethink my skills/gear/ability usage."

 

People do play very differently when presented with harsh death penalties and I feel (and have personally witnessed) that people prefer to take the safer easier route. There's always going to be a select few that will still play risky, but they are really really few and far between.

Look at PoE, the builds used, the style of play, look different between normal and perma-death modes. It's much more common to see people re-grind areas that they know they can do so that they can get stronger without taking on additional risk. That's boring to me.

 

Now, if you could create a game in which content scales based on your level and how many people are in your party so that there is never any content without risk, then I'd sign up for perma-death. Because it becomes about skill instead of fraidy-cat grinding easy content.

 

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2771

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

10/08/13 12:34:50 PM#29
I want a fairly high death penalty but no de-leveling.  I can handle any penalty short of perma-death except for deleveling.  Loss of XP is fine but not ruining progression.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  FlyinDutchman87

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/10
Posts: 169

10/08/13 12:38:33 PM#30

I vote for Perma-death with only 1 char per account.

 

That way you have to buy a new copy of the game every time you die to wolves.....

  apocoluster

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/15/07
Posts: 1299

\m/,

10/08/13 1:04:19 PM#31
Cough. Free to play. Cough

No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  quixadhal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/11/05
Posts: 195

10/08/13 1:11:31 PM#32

The big thing for me is NO TIME SINK.

I don't care if I lose experience, levels, gear, whatever... as long as I can get back up and continue playing without feeling like I'm wasting my time.  Corpse runs, even the "ghost" versions, are just time sinks where I'm unable to play the game until I finish them.

 

  iJustWant

Novice Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 82

10/08/13 1:12:45 PM#33

My earliest memory of dying in the original, no-expansion Everquest was in the Ocean of Tears. I'd fallen overboard, while the boat was sailing from Faydwer to Freeport. I got lost underwater, my swimming skill was really low, and I'd drowned. I spent hours in water elemental form, swimming around looking for my corpse. When I finally found it, I felt relief; the XP loss was nothing, it was the heavy emotion of worry...what if I couldn't find my corpse?! I didn't want to lose all my stuff!

 

While this taught me to pay more attention while playing in that zone - not to mention the importance of the Swimming skill - the greatest part of the gaming experience was finding out who my in-game friends really were. The Cleric who met me on the docks, and handed me some food & water so I wouldn't go hungry:  Friend. The Necro who came, swam with & then showed me the direction of my underwater corpse: Friend. Other guidies who were too busy, hmm...not much of a friend.

 

 

In comparison, when I played Rift, I remember thinking "That's it?" when I died. No penalty, other than the few seconds it takes to run back to my corpse. If that was too much effort, I can respawn instantly, and accept a...what, a 2 minute debuff to stats? That, and a few copper to repair my soul?

 

This taught me to just LOLWTFBBQLeeroyJenkins my way around Rift. Dying didn't matter.

 

The real comparison, I think, is the time and money I spent in each game. Rift had its moments, but ultimately not enough - I'd subscribed only 3 months. Everquest had me for 4-5 years.

 

 

 

  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 341

10/08/13 2:53:07 PM#34
Originally posted by tom_gore
Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Interesting that the dev team are even asking questions like this, but I can't imagine in my wildest dreams that they will actually implement any kind of DP in a game designed to have "mass appeal".

Perhaps they'll opt for some token DP like a 10 second delay on respawning, or something equally trivial.

The only massively accepted DP will be no DP...

You haven't played EverQuest, have you?

Also, even WoW has a death penalty, thus it's not massively accepted?

Seeing that all the dev quotes below the poll lean towards a definite DP (but not too harsh), and that a great majority of the poll respondees lean towards some kind of DP, I'd say there will for sure be a DP.

I never thought of the ghost-runs in WoW as a death penalty. Basically it just means to go back to a respawn point. If the character would immediately respawn in the point where he died, that would be no different then being knocked down.

Ok, you technically lose one minute to have another try on the same content, but calling this a death penalty is creative use of semantics if you ask me. It is only a penalty if it hurts.

 

SOE has made it very clear that they what to throw all the punishing aspects of EQ overboard. Everything in EQN has to be fun, and death penalty is clearly not fun.  

 

It is hard to say what the dev-quotes actually mean. The clearest is: “Death should cost time and in some cases reset progress in an event or quest.” Note that this doesn’t mean XP-loss or anything like that. I think it says a lot that they feel the need to spell out that in some cases a quest might fail if you die. I thought that was kind of self-explanatory.

  bubbabill

Novice Member

Joined: 5/23/13
Posts: 82

10/08/13 2:54:49 PM#35
i dare them to make the death penalty Permadeath.  the nerd raging would be so fun to read.
  stayBlind

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/06
Posts: 511

10/08/13 2:55:16 PM#36
They should just remove death completely from MMORPG; it is nothing but a useless timesink.

Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

10/08/13 3:10:06 PM#37
Originally posted by Anthur
Originally posted by Elikal
I am not sure Democracy is a good way to ensure quality. :/

Don't worry. SOE doesn't care much for the poll results anyway. But that doesn't guarantee quality either. ;)

I am quite sure SOE will choose one of the two options at the bottom.

 

The main problem is that hardcore players are the most vocal forum goers. So it is NO way representative to ask in a MMO forum or on a MMO website.

We here are exotic orchids and in no way representative of average MMO-Joe or MMO-Jill.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Magiknight

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/09
Posts: 744

10/08/13 3:15:47 PM#38
If it's equipment damage it better be HEAVY equipment damage. The equipment damage done in WoW and FFXIV is not a heavy death penalty at all.
  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

10/08/13 4:10:37 PM#39
Originally posted by Magiknight
If it's equipment damage it better be HEAVY equipment damage. The equipment damage done in WoW and FFXIV is not a heavy death penalty at all.

I totally don't buy this "heavy penalities make better people" bullcrap. In RL just as nil as in games.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5854

10/08/13 4:27:25 PM#40

I voted light penalty. Lineage had an insane death penatly. You could lose several weeks worth of xp from a death and also have unique items destroyed. It didn't make better players. It didn't encourage risk taking. It encouraged ezmode zerg facerolling and of course contributed to extending the subscription time. No thanks. There is a reason Korean grinders had a bad reputation and this game is what spawned the term.

Penalties should be minor setbacks that encourage players or groups to rethink their tactics and strategies. They should be strong enough to encourage new strategies so you don't waste time spinning your wheels.

It's a good thing SoE doesn't take these polls too seriously because players seem to vote with what sounds cool not what they actually want.

Curse you AquaScum!

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