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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » Videos showing current client/server sync issues (skill delay)

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106 posts found
  Zalmon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 323

10/06/13 3:42:04 AM#61
Just imagine the pile of mess when PVP releases. This MMO is being made two times now and still SE can't get things right. They should just get out of MMO business for good.
  Seelinnikoi

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/11/11
Posts: 501

10/06/13 3:46:36 AM#62
I give this game a year until they shutdown or make an announcement that 3.0 is for real realz this time!
  Alamareth

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 591

10/06/13 7:23:43 AM#63
Originally posted by Asm0deus
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Asm0deus?

It is  a bug due to bad coding. Link

Those of you saying it is not a bug and you all just suck and need to learn "battle awareness or you need to learn how run out of the red or you need to adapt to the timing" please note the forums it is under:

Thanks again for finding this - at least they are acknowledging that its a bug - now what will they do about it?

 

Notice how a pretty large chunk of them are in the EU servers?

If you had actually read some threads about the subject instead of skimming through it you would know even people in the province of Quebec living only 1 hr away have issues with this but it is less of a problem because they have very low net lagg.

The issues and reason it needs to go is because they are not willing to have servers in every state so we all have very low net lagg. This is something that will not change period, they can however reduce this coding lagg so the formula would be:

real lagg = net lagg + server lagg (due to primetime and high server traffic) which we all, by now, are use to and can adapt to.

I have guildies from Australia and they can adapt to stupid crazy lagg times of 300 400ms plus (this lagg btw is only the net lagg and doesn't include the coding lagg).

 

The problem however is right now you have this formula:

real lagg = net lagg + server lagg+ coding lagg (300ms).  There are limits to how much you can compensate before things become  "not fun". 

Also keep in mind that this coding lagg (300ms) doesn't show up really when you are testing your lagg. So if you have 150ms lagg due to you being far away from the servers you need to add 300 to that because of these positioning checks plus if you play primetime add in the lagg spikes.

Yes, because I always draw conclusions by using the one example that fits my argument the best.

I made a generalization.  Most of those players in that thread do not live in North America.  Yeah, there's a dude in Quebec.  God knows, he might be playing on an Easy Bake Oven for all I know.

  Asm0deus

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 784

10/06/13 2:51:45 PM#64
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by Asm0deus
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Asm0deus?

It is  a bug due to bad coding. Link

Those of you saying it is not a bug and you all just suck and need to learn "battle awareness or you need to learn how run out of the red or you need to adapt to the timing" please note the forums it is under:

Thanks again for finding this - at least they are acknowledging that its a bug - now what will they do about it?

 

Notice how a pretty large chunk of them are in the EU servers?

If you had actually read some threads about the subject instead of skimming through it you would know even people in the province of Quebec living only 1 hr away have issues with this but it is less of a problem because they have very low net lagg.

The issues and reason it needs to go is because they are not willing to have servers in every state so we all have very low net lagg. This is something that will not change period, they can however reduce this coding lagg so the formula would be:

real lagg = net lagg + server lagg (due to primetime and high server traffic) which we all, by now, are use to and can adapt to.

I have guildies from Australia and they can adapt to stupid crazy lagg times of 300 400ms plus (this lagg btw is only the net lagg and doesn't include the coding lagg).

 

The problem however is right now you have this formula:

real lagg = net lagg + server lagg+ coding lagg (300ms).  There are limits to how much you can compensate before things become  "not fun". 

Also keep in mind that this coding lagg (300ms) doesn't show up really when you are testing your lagg. So if you have 150ms lagg due to you being far away from the servers you need to add 300 to that because of these positioning checks plus if you play primetime add in the lagg spikes.

Yes, because I always draw conclusions by using the one example that fits my argument the best.

I made a generalization.  Most of those players in that thread do not live in North America.  Yeah, there's a dude in Quebec.  God knows, he might be playing on an Easy Bake Oven for all I know.

Actually there are quite a few people from Canada in the thread but you seem to be so infatuated with being right you won't look and see what is staring you right in the face.

Hell I live in eastern Canada and I can see the effect of the 300ms coding lagg so keep putting  your head in the sand and keep making excuses for SE but please stop trying to blow smoke up our arses.

 

I really like the game and want it to succeed but lets be honest and tell it like it is shall we instead of plain out lying to people that haven't played it yet.

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  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

10/06/13 3:14:43 PM#65
Originally posted by karmath

Considering they chose to locate their servers in Eastern Canada only compounds this issue. West Coast US players have 100-180ms ping while its completely unplayable for Australia and New Zealand coming in at around 300-400ms. Add in the longest GCD of any modern game at two seconds and a client sync issue you have a massive unresponsive lagfest.

Why they did this is pretty baffling, I cannot think of a single reason why someone thought it was a good idea to locate servers so far away from their target market when their game has performance issues in the first place. It's like investing in a bacon stand in the middle of baghdad stupid.

I live in Europe and I got minimal issues. By minimal I mean, that I maybe get an issue if there is tons of people in a fate. 99% of the time in battle, 0 issues from lag.

 

I do know that I had significant issues when playing an older computer. So I certainly would like to know the FPS of those that do have issues, just to rule out that it isn't graphical issues.

 

Nonetheless, it is an issue, but it is certainly not a problem for all Europeans.

  Alamareth

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 591

10/06/13 5:12:29 PM#66
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by karmath

Considering they chose to locate their servers in Eastern Canada only compounds this issue. West Coast US players have 100-180ms ping while its completely unplayable for Australia and New Zealand coming in at around 300-400ms. Add in the longest GCD of any modern game at two seconds and a client sync issue you have a massive unresponsive lagfest.

Why they did this is pretty baffling, I cannot think of a single reason why someone thought it was a good idea to locate servers so far away from their target market when their game has performance issues in the first place. It's like investing in a bacon stand in the middle of baghdad stupid.

I live in Europe and I got minimal issues. By minimal I mean, that I maybe get an issue if there is tons of people in a fate. 99% of the time in battle, 0 issues from lag.

 

I do know that I had significant issues when playing an older computer. So I certainly would like to know the FPS of those that do have issues, just to rule out that it isn't graphical issues.

 

Nonetheless, it is an issue, but it is certainly not a problem for all Europeans.

I referenced an Easy Bake Oven earlier....

Well, funny story - I basically play on one.  Good ole decade aged dual core processor, 2 gigs of RAM, a GTX 550 Ti, and a 40 GB (woot!) server pull hard drive.  Trust me, it isn't your hardware causing problems.

I do notice lag, perhaps ranging at 200-300ms because I'm able to slide cast on just about everything.  I also run the hardest content in the game, the least of my problems being 200-300ms.

This discussion is tired.  Championed by inferior players that are unable to clear inferior content.

  hcoelho

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 510

10/06/13 5:45:04 PM#67

People outside US and EUR always plays with high latency due several factors...  we all do as well as you guys. Stop bitching for fuck sake. 

If the game has a problem and you care about it, give feedback to the company. Crying like motherless child here won't do a magic trick. And if you don't care, why bother ?!

I'm playing the game, there is a delay thats true. But its a delay that i'm used to handle.  I usually get 150 ~ 300 ms from East coast US servers, west coast is even worse. EUR servers can go beyond that.  And i still can do good, the game is still fun and i can still tank. Maybe in higher lvls i'll have to adapt more quickly, but still. Adapt or go play something else. GW2 has responsive combat and don't even has a sub, go enjoy something and stop bitching. 

Enough crying already.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 4716

 
OP  10/06/13 5:53:43 PM#68
Originally posted by Alamareth

This discussion is tired.  Championed by inferior players that are unable to clear inferior content.

Wow, seriously?

This 300ms of additional delay is *acknowledged* by the devs as a problem.

It is a major issue that ALL players have to deal with whether they know it or not.

It has nothing to do with clearing any content - you are trying sidestep the issue, again acknowledged by Square Enix.

Any info sent from client to server has 300ms of additional delay - like summoning your mount, *any* action is delayed.

Again - this should not be acceptable for any game, let alone a subscription game.

I can't wait to see how SE is going to fix the issue, players need to know that it is not their ISP or their hardware, or their eyes playing tricks on them - yes on their PC they did dodge that AOE but the 300ms of additional delay killed them.

Huge problem as it is forced on all players by server/net code.

Players need to know about this dirty little secret that is just coming to surface.

 

 

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7045

10/06/13 6:05:26 PM#69
pvp should be interesting. Is this something that happens all the time? Every time?
  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 4716

 
OP  10/06/13 6:13:26 PM#70
Originally posted by bcbully
pvp should be interesting. Is this something that happens all the time? Every time?

Yes - all actions, all the time, all servers, all players - everything even non-combat stuff has additional 300ms added before its processed server side. Its in the netcode.

2.5 second global cool down hides this "bug" very well, if the game had a 1.5sec GCD it would be beyond obvious.

PvP will be a complete mess unless this is fixed.

  Asm0deus

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 784

10/06/13 6:35:31 PM#71
Originally posted by Alamareth
*snip*
*snip*

This discussion is tired.  Championed by inferior players that are unable to clear inferior content.

What is tired is people feeling to need to boost their self worth/skill level by claiming that people, that are trying to get a known bug fixed and trying to keep it from been sweeped under the rug, are "inferior players that are unable to clear inferior content".

Seriously some people seem to be afraid this bug will be fixed for some obscure reason.

 

Plain fact is this issue was accepted by SE themselves as an "accepted bug" so argue all you want but you are 100% wrong and at this point just trolling with anecdotal evidence/arguements.

If some of you are tired of hearing about it move on plain and simple and stop insulting and griefing players that do want this to be fixed asap.

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  Dagon13

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/16/07
Posts: 168

10/06/13 6:56:42 PM#72
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Alamareth

This discussion is tired.  Championed by inferior players that are unable to clear inferior content.

Wow, seriously?

This 300ms of additional delay is *acknowledged* by the devs as a problem.

It is a major issue that ALL players have to deal with whether they know it or not.

It has nothing to do with clearing any content - you are trying sidestep the issue, again acknowledged by Square Enix.

Any info sent from client to server has 300ms of additional delay - like summoning your mount, *any* action is delayed.

Again - this should not be acceptable for any game, let alone a subscription game.

I can't wait to see how SE is going to fix the issue, players need to know that it is not their ISP or their hardware, or their eyes playing tricks on them - yes on their PC they did dodge that AOE but the 300ms of additional delay killed them.

Huge problem as it is forced on all players by server/net code.

Players need to know about this dirty little secret that is just coming to surface.

 

 

So SE acknowledged the problem, how is it a dirty little secret?  Logic?

Anyway, it seems this issue only has  a significant impact in end game combat content.  It probably isn't affecting the majority of the player base, myself included, which may be why they appear ignorant.  If it's as significant as many of you make it sound, I will hope a solution is found before I reach that point in the content.

  Aldous.Huxley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/04/13
Posts: 443

10/06/13 7:07:38 PM#73

Great expose, Geraldo.

 

Serioisly though, I was annoyed by it in the beginning but I found that my brain can compensate for it. I don't really notice it at all anymore. I do, however, see many people use it as an excuse for their poor play, ash-can pc's, shotty ISP's, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...

 

I can't think of any unflawed game that was ever created. Everyone's a critic. The good in this game, IMHO, outweighs the bad. I'm surprised that people aren't complaining more about the universal tick that goes along with any HOT or DOT applied & labeling it "gamebreaking".

 

You know what really used to chap my hide? Kung Fu for the NES. There was a slight delay in the button response on the controller during combat. I was like wtf... Of course that was an action/fighting (completely different) game.

 

In summary, I guess everyone has a gamebreaking hang up, this one just isn't mine. Good luck with whatever you're trying to accomplish with this thread.

  Homitu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2030

10/06/13 10:13:33 PM#74
Originally posted by Alamareth
Originally posted by Homitu

 On an encounter like Demon Wall, I stand on the outside in preparation for when the middle gets covered in ooze; but I've grown accustomed to running back into the middle well before the ooze actually disappears on my screen in order to get a head start on avoiding the incoming side ooze.

While the rest of your post is true, I sort of wonder why you use an example of a fight where you are starting in a safe area is evidence of lag.

I mean....it's just good sense to start on the sides vs. Demon Wall regardless of lag.

Overall, unless you really have a lot of lag - whatever delay there is on positioning is easily adjusted to.  We can argue all day as to whether or not we should have to adjust, but the fact is simple.  This 300ms position check is real and it's going no where.

Get used to it.  I don't know what I can say to you if you really have that much trouble staying on top of your battle awareness.

Maybe I didn't articulate myself clearly enough, because I don't think you understood the point of that part of my post.  I obviously had no problem whatsoever with Demon Wall, and everyone should and does obviously start the encounter standing on the sides.  That was just to provide a reference point for having to eventually move from the side to the middle during the second ooze line.  

All I intended to say there was that I - and others, I've observed - actually start running to the middle just before the side aoe line indicators pop up and while the middle is getting covered in ooze because I've been conditioned by this 300ms delay, consciously or subconsciously.  The result is the rather ridiculous visual of my character standing in the middle as ooze pours over me, but doesn't actually hit me because the server didn't register my new position in the middle yet.  

The point of the example wasn't to show how detrimental the 300ms delay was to the fight, but to explain how I and others have almost unconsciously adapted to the delay and begun to preempt mechanics we're familiar enough with to anticipate and time properly.  And to explain how ridiculous it looks and feels.  

This is only exacerbated by the fact that area targeted attacks already behave differently than every other MMO that ever existed in that it doesn't matter where the player stands when the attack actually lands in the area, only where the player is when the attack was launched by the attacker.  That is, projectiles' speed and animation don't mean anything.  The result can be silly both ways.  You can get hit by the attack even if you're clearly standing outside the area when the animation actually lands; or you can stand right in the area when the animation goes off around you and not get hit by the attack.  Both cases cause the player to feel a huge disconnect.  

  Zalmon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 323

10/07/13 5:46:24 AM#75
Originally posted by Alamareth
 

This discussion is tired.  Championed by inferior players that are unable to clear inferior content.

  skyline385

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/13
Posts: 601

10/07/13 5:57:03 AM#76
Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley

Great expose, Geraldo.

 

Serioisly though, I was annoyed by it in the beginning but I found that my brain can compensate for it. I don't really notice it at all anymore. I do, however, see many people use it as an excuse for their poor play, ash-can pc's, shotty ISP's, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...

 

I can't think of any unflawed game that was ever created. Everyone's a critic. The good in this game, IMHO, outweighs the bad. I'm surprised that people aren't complaining more about the universal tick that goes along with any HOT or DOT applied & labeling it "gamebreaking".

 

You know what really used to chap my hide? Kung Fu for the NES. There was a slight delay in the button response on the controller during combat. I was like wtf... Of course that was an action/fighting (completely different) game.

 

In summary, I guess everyone has a gamebreaking hang up, this one just isn't mine. Good luck with whatever you're trying to accomplish with this thread.

It's not an expose but a coding issue which people have known since the beta phase and on which the dev himself commented as i wrote in my post. There is no doubt that it exists and that people playing from across Asia have to compensate for 500-700 ms positioning delay because of the combined effect.

And no, not all Asians are Japanese so we can't play on the JP server; it's used by the majority of JP people only except for one server which some Australians seem to be using but even that is populated by Japanese people.

  Kajidourden

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 296

10/07/13 6:25:28 AM#77

Problem?  Definitely

Easily compensated for? Definitely

Will they/do they plan to do anything about it? Who knows

Bottom line: Gotta deal with it until then, or play another game.

 Also, these forums are the last place anyone from SE is going to look....just saying.  So really, the thread is pointless bickering.  Why not put it on the official forums, or add to a thread already going?  This place?  Seriously?

  skyline385

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/13
Posts: 601

10/07/13 6:37:02 AM#78
Originally posted by Kajidourden

Problem?  Definitely

Easily compensated for? Definitely

Will they/do they plan to do anything about it? Who knows

Bottom line: Gotta deal with it until then, or play another game.

 Also, these forums are the last place anyone from SE is going to look....just saying.  So really, the thread is pointless bickering.  Why not put it on the official forums, or add to a thread already going?  This place?  Seriously?

Problem? Definitely

Easily compensated for? Definitely not.

I love how people are still swearing and bashing the devs and BW so much for the 0.1 sec animation delay in skills like Overload in SWTOR which has been removed but are more than ready to accept the 0.3-0.5 positioning delay that comes with this game even though it is not only much larger but more random as well. There is no way to tell what point you are getting synced so you may or may not get hit if you don't get move out before 0.3 secs that too only for 0ms ping (again impossible).

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6591

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

10/07/13 7:07:44 AM#79

I don't need a video because i played the game and with an inferior machine and what i consider a crap internet.I had little trouble at all with the game and that was at often times less than 30 fps.

There is no such thing as moving early,you either move on time or you don't,early would be guessing.I would say players need to turn their settings down,it is most likely graphical lag causing them problems.

As to the term SYNC,internet is quite simple,you hop from hub to hub until you hit the destination server and then all of that has to return to you from hop to hop.There is always going to be an issue with internet,we are not playing on a LAN and even a LAN has been proven to lag for a split second most likely again due to graphical lag.

I was a very intense fps player in my days and what i saw would debunk what any so called expert would say about internet.I could see a ping around 80 and a game says everything is fine,yet i could clearly see and feel lag that felt like 2-3 seconds.My point is that even a ping reader,trace route whatever check you do is not going to give you a 100% accurate answer to your connection and game lag.

Geesh i have played with 80 ping versus players with 200 ping and they clearly see me first,the internet is often times unreadable,might be your hardware who knows,i just know what i have seen playing thousands of hours of fps's where you really notice lag more than any rpg.Point being,i would not attach a BUG tag to it because imo if it was a bug we woudl ALL see it and i never saw anything of the sort.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Alders

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1654

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

10/07/13 7:22:05 AM#80

You missed the best 2 vids.  This issue was prevalent in 1.0 and still continues.        

 

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