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General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » [Editorial] General: The Beta Is a Lie

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136 posts found
  Carnage2K4

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 8

10/05/13 10:49:13 PM#121

"Beta, named after the second letter of the Greek alphabet, is the software development phase following alpha. It generally begins when the software is feature complete. Software in the beta phase will generally have many more bugs in it than completed software, as well as speed/performance issues and may still cause crashes or data loss. The focus of beta testing is reducing impacts to users, often incorporating usability testing. The process of delivering a beta version to the users is called beta release and this is typically the first time that the software is available outside of the organization that developed it."

 

Now, where does it say "cannot be called beta if money is being received"?

For a "gaming" article site, MMORPG seems to know very little about the Gaming/Software industry. All I see here is a site thinking they can redefine words.

For a retail launch you may have a point, but you are talking about F2P, a totally different system of game.

 
 
 
  JasonJ

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/19/13
Posts: 414

10/05/13 10:52:05 PM#122

Nothing smacks of stupid more than someone complaining about a free games launch...

Save your complaints for SUBSCRIPTION games that launch before they are ready because they are taking your money. Wow, talk about a bunch of crybabies.

  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2270

10/05/13 10:55:35 PM#123

Path of Exile was released months ago, this is definitely a sham made to hide the flaws with a game. As soon as anyone can join, you are charging money in some way even if it is a cash shop, you no longer will ever wipe characters and you aren't focus testing at all you are released.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 5276

7/22/15 10:52:38 AM#124

Just cuse you keep saying does not make it right lol. I have launched new networks with new software/OS etc. CB does not fully test your systems and you never know how systems will work till you do a large scale launch in a real world environment. You may not think its needed and I agree marketing saw the demand to get into beta and stopped giving it away for free. Thats free trade supply and demand. But here is the FACT and where you are wrong. Till you do a large scale launch like an open beta, you have no clue how things will go till then. 

Its at open beta they get to know their real problems and holes. You may think its not needed and just a marketing ploy, but you are so wrong. Love you still as a reviewer and I know where to take what you say with a grain of salt. But from the tech and software side you have no clue it seems. Maybe the marketing side of things has made you cynical and I think many have the right to feel that way. Still does not change the facts. You still need an open beta and a game is not launched till thats finished. 

As far as the no wipes, I think they had to do that to be fair for charging for betas. /thred sorry Bill. Still wrong. I also think its awesome you can buy into beta. As a gamer I get to buy into the games I want to give feedback to. This has been great with Landmark. Even getting to talk directly to devs at times in game. This is a much better system then just hoping for a random invite. 

=-D Only on a forum can optimism be called the bad thing and pessimism is the good thing =-D

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 5559

7/22/15 11:11:14 AM#125
Originally posted by Terranah

Maybe there are legal advantages.  For instance, we all know mmo's typically have crappy launches.  By having a soft launch and calling it beta, they remove the class action lawsuit or demands for additional time tacked onto accounts, not to mention refunds.

 

I've noticed this more and more.  I don't necessarily mind. 

That's like building an anti-zombie shelter in your basement :) 99% of those threats are just forum posturing.

 

However the first part of your post is correct imho, it does deflect some of the crappy launch anger away... although most players have caught on to the soft launch gimmick by now and are just as intolerant about crappy launches for early access or open betas. We saw this with the early release of H1Z1 on steam.

 

I'd say the gaming media can help put an end to all this deceptive crap by doing just what mmorpg.com and other sites are doing: if the cash shop is active or they are collecting subs (I'm looking at you Pathfinder) it's review time - warts and all.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 5276

7/22/15 11:15:45 AM#126
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Terranah

Maybe there are legal advantages.  For instance, we all know mmo's typically have crappy launches.  By having a soft launch and calling it beta, they remove the class action lawsuit or demands for additional time tacked onto accounts, not to mention refunds.

 

I've noticed this more and more.  I don't necessarily mind. 

That's like building an anti-zombie shelter in your basement :) 99% of those threats are just forum posturing.

 

However the first part of your post is correct imho, it does deflect some of the crappy launch anger away... although most players have caught on to the soft launch gimmick by now and are just as intolerant about crappy launches for early access or open betas. We saw this with the early release of H1Z1 on steam.

 

I'd say the gaming media can help put an end to all this deceptive crap by doing just what mmorpg.com and other sites are doing: if the cash shop is active or they are collecting subs (I'm looking at you Pathfinder) it's review time - warts and all.

I agree its review time, but what I dont agree with Bill on is the final review is at open beta. I think their should be a review when the game is officially launched.

=-D Only on a forum can optimism be called the bad thing and pessimism is the good thing =-D

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3771

7/22/15 11:22:05 AM#127

If there is no tangible difference between so-called "open beta" and the launched game, then the start of open beta was actually the launch.

 

With most of these "open beta" games, the only way you know that launch day has arrived is because they renamed some of the bundles that are sold in the Cash Shop...

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 5559

7/22/15 11:30:17 AM#128
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Terranah

Maybe there are legal advantages.  For instance, we all know mmo's typically have crappy launches.  By having a soft launch and calling it beta, they remove the class action lawsuit or demands for additional time tacked onto accounts, not to mention refunds.

 

I've noticed this more and more.  I don't necessarily mind. 

That's like building an anti-zombie shelter in your basement :) 99% of those threats are just forum posturing.

 

However the first part of your post is correct imho, it does deflect some of the crappy launch anger away... although most players have caught on to the soft launch gimmick by now and are just as intolerant about crappy launches for early access or open betas. We saw this with the early release of H1Z1 on steam.

 

I'd say the gaming media can help put an end to all this deceptive crap by doing just what mmorpg.com and other sites are doing: if the cash shop is active or they are collecting subs (I'm looking at you Pathfinder) it's review time - warts and all.

I agree its review time, but what I dont agree with Bill on is the final review is at open beta. I think their should be a review when the game is officially launched.

Re-reviewing is a different issue and best left for a different editorial. It's not just release after a prolonged open beta that can trigger one, and there's a whole continuum from very valid reasons to flimsy ones for re-reviewing a game. In the case of FFXIV - ARR, it was a very good reason to do so. in other cases not so much.

 

It's the developers themselves who trigger when a game is reviewed. In olden less tricksy days, "official release" was the signal to set the media hounds loose. But now they've gotten too cute with their attempts to postpone reviews until official launch while behaving in all other significant financial ways as if the launch had already happened.

 

It's a good thing the gaming media is calling them on it. It may have happened before but my first recollection of MMORPG.COM doing this was with Neverwinter a couple of years ago when Bill said words to the effect of "fuck it, here's your review." Good move then and good move now.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 17123

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

7/22/15 11:30:52 AM#129
Forum necromancers...

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  SavageHorizon

Elite Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 2052

7/22/15 11:32:18 AM#130
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Just cuse you keep saying does not make it right lol. I have launched new networks with new software/OS etc. CB does not fully test your systems and you never know how systems will work till you do a large scale launch in a real world environment. You may not think its needed and I agree marketing saw the demand to get into beta and stopped giving it away for free. Thats free trade supply and demand. But here is the FACT and where you are wrong. Till you do a large scale launch like an open beta, you have no clue how things will go till then. 

Its at open beta they get to know their real problems and holes. You may think its not needed and just a marketing ploy, but you are so wrong. Love you still as a reviewer and I know where to take what you say with a grain of salt. But from the tech and software side you have no clue it seems. Maybe the marketing side of things has made you cynical and I think many have the right to feel that way. Still does not change the facts. You still need an open beta and a game is not launched till thats finished. 

As far as the no wipes, I think they had to do that to be fair for charging for betas. /thred sorry Bill. Still wrong. I also think its awesome you can buy into beta. As a gamer I get to buy into the games I want to give feedback to. This has been great with Landmark. Even getting to talk directly to devs at times in game. This is a much better system then just hoping for a random invite. 

WTF would you bump a two year old thread to tell bill he is wrong.

Boring.

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  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 5276

7/22/15 11:34:18 AM#131
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Just cuse you keep saying does not make it right lol. I have launched new networks with new software/OS etc. CB does not fully test your systems and you never know how systems will work till you do a large scale launch in a real world environment. You may not think its needed and I agree marketing saw the demand to get into beta and stopped giving it away for free. Thats free trade supply and demand. But here is the FACT and where you are wrong. Till you do a large scale launch like an open beta, you have no clue how things will go till then. 

Its at open beta they get to know their real problems and holes. You may think its not needed and just a marketing ploy, but you are so wrong. Love you still as a reviewer and I know where to take what you say with a grain of salt. But from the tech and software side you have no clue it seems. Maybe the marketing side of things has made you cynical and I think many have the right to feel that way. Still does not change the facts. You still need an open beta and a game is not launched till thats finished. 

As far as the no wipes, I think they had to do that to be fair for charging for betas. /thred sorry Bill. Still wrong. I also think its awesome you can buy into beta. As a gamer I get to buy into the games I want to give feedback to. This has been great with Landmark. Even getting to talk directly to devs at times in game. This is a much better system then just hoping for a random invite. 

WTF would you bump a two year old thread to tell bill he is wrong.

Boring.

He linked this this thread in his youtube video he released today! and no one is telling him off, just disagreeing with him.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vstG9fcItbs

=-D Only on a forum can optimism be called the bad thing and pessimism is the good thing =-D

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 5559

7/22/15 11:35:19 AM#132
Originally posted by Distopia
Forum necromancers...

LOL I didn't even notice it was necroed. Probably because in yesterday's "gut reaction" Bill said he would be writing an editorial about the open beta deception.

 

Hey Bill... you already did! 2 years ago :)

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3771

7/22/15 11:41:55 AM#133
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Distopia
Forum necromancers...

LOL I didn't even notice it was necroed. Probably because in yesterday's "gut reaction" Bill said he would be writing an editorial about the open beta deception.

 

Hey Bill... you already did! 2 years ago :)

Dammit, never even thought to check the date ! 

 

I just assumed it was a text version of Bill's "Gut Reaction" video posted earlier today...

http://www.mmorpg.com/showVideo.cfm/videoId/4470

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 5276

7/22/15 12:03:46 PM#134
Originally posted by SpottyGekko
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Distopia
Forum necromancers...

LOL I didn't even notice it was necroed. Probably because in yesterday's "gut reaction" Bill said he would be writing an editorial about the open beta deception.

 

Hey Bill... you already did! 2 years ago :)

Dammit, never even thought to check the date ! 

 

I just assumed it was a text version of Bill's "Gut Reaction" video posted earlier today...

http://www.mmorpg.com/showVideo.cfm/videoId/4470

It is, he linked this thread in the video description on youtube lol Im guessing he didnt want to write this again lol

=-D Only on a forum can optimism be called the bad thing and pessimism is the good thing =-D

  SavageHorizon

Elite Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 2052

7/22/15 12:52:44 PM#135
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Just cuse you keep saying does not make it right lol. I have launched new networks with new software/OS etc. CB does not fully test your systems and you never know how systems will work till you do a large scale launch in a real world environment. You may not think its needed and I agree marketing saw the demand to get into beta and stopped giving it away for free. Thats free trade supply and demand. But here is the FACT and where you are wrong. Till you do a large scale launch like an open beta, you have no clue how things will go till then. 

Its at open beta they get to know their real problems and holes. You may think its not needed and just a marketing ploy, but you are so wrong. Love you still as a reviewer and I know where to take what you say with a grain of salt. But from the tech and software side you have no clue it seems. Maybe the marketing side of things has made you cynical and I think many have the right to feel that way. Still does not change the facts. You still need an open beta and a game is not launched till thats finished. 

As far as the no wipes, I think they had to do that to be fair for charging for betas. /thred sorry Bill. Still wrong. I also think its awesome you can buy into beta. As a gamer I get to buy into the games I want to give feedback to. This has been great with Landmark. Even getting to talk directly to devs at times in game. This is a much better system then just hoping for a random invite. 

WTF would you bump a two year old thread to tell bill he is wrong.

Boring.

He linked this this thread in his youtube video he released today! and no one is telling him off, just disagreeing with him.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vstG9fcItbs

Not that i agree with you, i wish we could go back to non paid real beta's. Think the last true beta i was in Warhammer Online. 

But yeah if he linked it then my apologies.

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  Thane

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 2257

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

7/22/15 1:37:38 PM#136

sooo, after giving RSI 85 million dollars without even being close to alpha....

you complain about games that actually went into retail? :)

 

that logic overhelms me.

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

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