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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Most Stupid/Best PvP System in a Game?

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54 posts found
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7239

10/03/13 2:14:57 PM#41
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
The last 33% come from the character/skills of course.

And yes, gear becomes less important over time... Just like any gear dependent game. Just like wow... When you have a full set of pvp gear, gear indeed becomes less important.

You basically just admitted Wushu isn't different from the other gear dependent mmorpgs with pvp.

Thanks for finally accepting the truth.

I see what you did there. I don't know if it was intentional, or from your lack of knowledge. Take off that full set of gear in WoW, RIFT,  or even GW2. What do you have? A character with 80% less stats, yeah? 

 

In Wushu when I take off my gear, I have 16% less stats. You see the difference? I think you already did, but wanted to "win the conversation"

 

Gear becomes less important in Wushu over THE PERSONAL GROWTH(time) of your character, unrelliant upon everyone having a "full set".

 

The reason being, the stats that gear gives in AoW, becomes a smaller and smaller portion of the total stat pool. This is because 85% of your stats come from other sources. Sources such as meridians, internal skill, artifacts, +dmg to technique etc. 

 

Do you understand? Eh, I know you wont respond, just like your buddy up there.

 

edit- there is no pvp gear in AoW. You knew that right?

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Steelhelm

Novice Member

Joined: 7/17/13
Posts: 41

10/03/13 2:42:29 PM#42
Haven't played WoW for or year or so, but the nostalgia I remember it from is that it had a kind of avatar responsiveness that made you feel like you are actually inside azeroth and that is something no other game has succeeded imo. But I think it's such magic that can be achieved once every 600 years or so... and that pvp gave some really good kicks...

  ste2000

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4734

10/03/13 3:29:00 PM#43

Stupid:

Easy one............... SWTOR, just a big joke

 

Best:

Darkfall (the original, not Darkfall 2.0)

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2760

There... are... four... lights!

10/03/13 3:33:10 PM#44
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
The last 33% come from the character/skills of course.

And yes, gear becomes less important over time... Just like any gear dependent game. Just like wow... When you have a full set of pvp gear, gear indeed becomes less important.

You basically just admitted Wushu isn't different from the other gear dependent mmorpgs with pvp.

Thanks for finally accepting the truth.

I see what you did there. I don't know if it was intentional, or from your lack of knowledge. Take off that full set of gear in WoW, RIFT,  or even GW2. What do you have? A character with 80% less stats, yeah? 

 

In Wushu when I take off my gear, I have 16% less stats. You see the difference? I think you already did, but wanted to "win the conversation"

 

Gear becomes less important in Wushu over THE PERSONAL GROWTH(time) of your character, unrelliant upon everyone having a "full set".

 

The reason being, the stats that gear gives in AoW, becomes a smaller and smaller portion of the total stat pool. This is because 85% of your stats come from other sources. Sources such as meridians, internal skill, artifacts, +dmg to technique etc. 

 

Do you understand? Eh, I know you wont respond, just like your buddy up there.

 

edit- there is no pvp gear in AoW. You knew that right?

I think I made my point pretty nicely, and supported by your own posts including this one. And no, there's no PvP gear in AoW (nice attempt though), I was talking about WoW PvP gear in comparison.

In all the gear dependent games, gear becomes less relevant with time, when everyone become an equal. Exactly the same for Wushu, whether you like it or not. A noob with crap gear will be at a big disadvantage in that game too. Along with a noob who didn't work on meridians. AoW is heavily grind/gear based. If you want to be the best in PvP, you need more than your skill... you need a lot of grinding.

I would really have loved it to be different, but it isn't.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Alders

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1698

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

10/03/13 3:40:27 PM#45

I'm not sure if it's changed now or not but i thought Aion's PVP system was absolutely stupid at the time.

It was a system that discouraged players from actually going out and fighting anyone.  It was a system where the higher rank you were, the more PVP points you'd lose on death.  It got to a point where you could lose a whole days worth of points if you got killed once.

The system worked fine in Korea as i recall because those players went out regardless of rank.  Here in the west i recall higher ranking players not even leaving town unless their entire guild was there to defend them.

Again, this may have changed since i last played a few years ago.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7239

10/03/13 7:27:03 PM#46
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
The last 33% come from the character/skills of course.

And yes, gear becomes less important over time... Just like any gear dependent game. Just like wow... When you have a full set of pvp gear, gear indeed becomes less important.

You basically just admitted Wushu isn't different from the other gear dependent mmorpgs with pvp.

Thanks for finally accepting the truth.

I see what you did there. I don't know if it was intentional, or from your lack of knowledge. Take off that full set of gear in WoW, RIFT,  or even GW2. What do you have? A character with 80% less stats, yeah? 

 

In Wushu when I take off my gear, I have 16% less stats. You see the difference? I think you already did, but wanted to "win the conversation"

 

Gear becomes less important in Wushu over THE PERSONAL GROWTH(time) of your character, unrelliant upon everyone having a "full set".

 

The reason being, the stats that gear gives in AoW, becomes a smaller and smaller portion of the total stat pool. This is because 85% of your stats come from other sources. Sources such as meridians, internal skill, artifacts, +dmg to technique etc. 

 

Do you understand? Eh, I know you wont respond, just like your buddy up there.

 

edit- there is no pvp gear in AoW. You knew that right?

I think I made my point pretty nicely, and supported by your own posts including this one. And no, there's no PvP gear in AoW (nice attempt though), I was talking about WoW PvP gear in comparison.

In all the gear dependent games, gear becomes less relevant with time, when everyone become an equal. Exactly the same for Wushu, whether you like it or not. A noob with crap gear will be at a big disadvantage in that game too. Along with a noob who didn't work on meridians. AoW is heavily grind/gear based. If you want to be the best in PvP, you need more than your skill... you need a lot of grinding.

I would really have loved it to be different, but it isn't.

The bold simply has nothing to do with AoW. Like I said,  "Gear becomes less important in Wushu over THE PERSONAL GROWTH(time) of your character, unreliant upon everyone having a "full set". You keep missing that.  Gear becomes less important because it becomes less and less of your total stat pool, due to receiving 85% or more stats from sources other than gear. 

 

In the other games named this is simply not true. Gear in those other games will continually become increasingly more and more of you stat pool.  In games like WoW, and RIFT balance comes over time when everyone is geared, as you have stated. This is because 85% of stats come from gear. 

 

Am I saying that gear plays no part at all in AoW? No, (thank goodness, that would be reeeally boring) as seen in my second post on the first page of this thread. There is a fundamental difference though that's really hard to argue. 

 

WoW, RIFT, GW2 gear makes up 85% of your stats. AoW gear makes up 16% of my stats.

 

side note - You just dont "become more geared" in AoW. There are no gear drops. I'm still wearing the exact same greaves I had 6 months ago. Sure I could upgrade, but for literally 4-6 more stats, I'm in no hurry. I get far more bang for my time elsewhere.

 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  RebelScum99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1127

10/03/13 7:46:55 PM#47
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Less than you'd think. WoW has one of the worst player rentention rates of any MMO in history. They released the numbers. The difference is they have the brand name and marketing budget to keep replacing those people they lose.

 

SO, worst, WoW, easily.

 

Best? Dark Age of Camelot or Eve.

Link?  Otherwise, I call BS.  

And saying that WoW  "easily" has the worst PvP reeks of someone who has an agenda.  It's certainly not the best, but nobody with even an inkling of objectivity could claim it's the worst when there are games like LOTRO out there that treat PvP like a mini-game.  

I agree that DAoC was probably the best.  But WoW's PvP was actually quite good back in the day.  Particularly since it encouraged open world PvP to happen organically due to the way the zones were set up.  

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7239

10/03/13 7:50:36 PM#48
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Less than you'd think. WoW has one of the worst player rentention rates of any MMO in history. They released the numbers. The difference is they have the brand name and marketing budget to keep replacing those people they lose.

 

SO, worst, WoW, easily.

 

Best? Dark Age of Camelot or Eve.

Link?  Otherwise, I call BS.  

And saying that WoW  "easily" has the worst PvP reeks of someone who has an agenda.  It's certainly not the best, but nobody with even an inkling of objectivity could claim it's the worst when there are games like LOTRO out there that treat PvP like a mini-game.  

I agree that DAoC was probably the best.  But WoW's PvP was actually quite good back in the day.  Particularly since it encouraged open world PvP to happen organically due to the way the zones were set up.  

I've seen the link. It's something like 80% of the people who try don't make it past level 10. This is part of the reason the did the redesign in cata, which back fired badly. 

 

I do agree with everything you said though. There is nothing like high level arena anywhere else in the industry.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  RebelScum99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1127

10/03/13 7:58:10 PM#49
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Less than you'd think. WoW has one of the worst player rentention rates of any MMO in history. They released the numbers. The difference is they have the brand name and marketing budget to keep replacing those people they lose.

 

SO, worst, WoW, easily.

 

Best? Dark Age of Camelot or Eve.

Link?  Otherwise, I call BS.  

And saying that WoW  "easily" has the worst PvP reeks of someone who has an agenda.  It's certainly not the best, but nobody with even an inkling of objectivity could claim it's the worst when there are games like LOTRO out there that treat PvP like a mini-game.  

I agree that DAoC was probably the best.  But WoW's PvP was actually quite good back in the day.  Particularly since it encouraged open world PvP to happen organically due to the way the zones were set up.  

I've seen the link. It's something like 80% of the people who try don't make it past level 10. This is part of the reason the did the redesign in cata, which back fired badly. 

 

I do agree with everything you said though. There is nothing like high level arena anywhere else in the industry.

Maybe, but there's a flip side to that coin, which our pal DavisFlight neglects to mention:  WoW has retained more players through the years than any other MMO.  If I were a dev, I'd take 20% of millions and millions of players retained over 50% of who-gives-a-shit any day.  But that's only because I enjoy money and stuff.  

As for WoW's PvP, I'm not even really talking about arenas, although you're right---you just don't see that kind of participation in other MMOs.  I've never really been an arena player myself---just not skilled enough.  The PvP that interests me is the kind that just happens organically around the open world.  Contested zones, quest hubs for opposing factions in the same zones, and faction cities that can be attacked by the opposing faction.  I always found that kind of PvP to be the most fun, and WoW had it...at least when I played.  I have a lot of fond memories of battles in Tarren Mill with horde players.  

  Torik

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2325

10/03/13 10:35:12 PM#50
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Less than you'd think. WoW has one of the worst player rentention rates of any MMO in history. They released the numbers. The difference is they have the brand name and marketing budget to keep replacing those people they lose.

 

SO, worst, WoW, easily.

 

Best? Dark Age of Camelot or Eve.

Link?  Otherwise, I call BS.  

And saying that WoW  "easily" has the worst PvP reeks of someone who has an agenda.  It's certainly not the best, but nobody with even an inkling of objectivity could claim it's the worst when there are games like LOTRO out there that treat PvP like a mini-game.  

I agree that DAoC was probably the best.  But WoW's PvP was actually quite good back in the day.  Particularly since it encouraged open world PvP to happen organically due to the way the zones were set up.  

I've seen the link. It's something like 80% of the people who try don't make it past level 10. This is part of the reason the did the redesign in cata, which back fired badly. 

 

I do agree with everything you said though. There is nothing like high level arena anywhere else in the industry.

Actually, I believe that was portrayed as a good thing since other MMORPGs with free trials had a worse retention rate. 

  LoverNoFighter

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 334

SWG pre cu > all

10/04/13 2:55:36 AM#51
SWG had a good PvP system.
  Grable

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 51

10/04/13 5:47:35 AM#52
Originally posted by bcbully

The bold simply has nothing to do with AoW. Like I said,  "Gear becomes less important in Wushu over THE PERSONAL GROWTH(time) of your character, unreliant upon everyone having a "full set". You keep missing that.  Gear becomes less important because it becomes less and less of your total stat pool, due to receiving 85% or more stats from sources other than gear. 

 

In the other games named this is simply not true. Gear in those other games will continually become increasingly more and more of you stat pool.  In games like WoW, and RIFT balance comes over time when everyone is geared, as you have stated. This is because 85% of stats come from gear. 

 

Am I saying that gear plays no part at all in AoW? No, (thank goodness, that would be reeeally boring) as seen in my second post on the first page of this thread. There is a fundamental difference though that's really hard to argue. 

 

WoW, RIFT, GW2 gear makes up 85% of your stats. AoW gear makes up 16% of my stats.

 

side note - You just dont "become more geared" in AoW. There are no gear drops. I'm still wearing the exact same greaves I had 6 months ago. Sure I could upgrade, but for literally 4-6 more stats, I'm in no hurry. I get far more bang for my time elsewhere.

 

 

The fact remains is that most of the combat effect of your character in AoW comes with grind, which means gaining levels on your meridians and gear (combined), which was also his point. Someone who is behind in levels of his abilities/meridians is going to have a hard time going against someone of a higher level of skills. That's a fact because with ability/meredian increases you get FLAT bonuses to stats and damage of abilities, just like gear one could say, yes?

  Banquetto

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 1027

10/05/13 9:51:50 PM#53


Originally posted by Kyleran
MMORPG combat has never traditionally been about being fair and balanced, in fact quite the opposite, it usually has some means for a player to get a leg up on the competition via level disparities, improved gear, more skills/abilities or even better tactics or taking advantage of game deficiencies such as lag, overpowered class etc.

In fact, it's a bit of a core feature really, the ability to improve your kill rate by utilizing things other than your natural /practiced ability to manipulate a keyboard. 


Agree 100%. The fact that MMORPG PvP is a combination of player ability AND character progression is definitely a feature - indeed, it's pretty much the unique selling point of MMORPG PvP.

If you don't want character progression mixed in with your clash of player skill, then play a MOBA, an RTS, a lobby team-vs-team game, whatever. Just don't expect to find an MMORPG that delivers that sort of PvP, because apart from GW2's (incredibly unpopular) SPvP mode, I've never seen it.

  RabidMouth

Novice Member

Joined: 9/17/13
Posts: 193

10/05/13 10:11:01 PM#54
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
The last 33% come from the character/skills of course.

And yes, gear becomes less important over time... Just like any gear dependent game. Just like wow... When you have a full set of pvp gear, gear indeed becomes less important.

You basically just admitted Wushu isn't different from the other gear dependent mmorpgs with pvp.

Thanks for finally accepting the truth.

I see what you did there. I don't know if it was intentional, or from your lack of knowledge. Take off that full set of gear in WoW, RIFT,  or even GW2. What do you have? A character with 80% less stats, yeah? 

actually for spvp in gw2 everyone has the same gear at level 1. Only in wvw pvp does gear make a difference.

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

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