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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Would many studios be better off focusing heavily on the PVPer?

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195 posts found
  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

10/02/13 3:12:44 PM#161
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by daltanious

Originally posted by Distopia I think they would. ...
Not at all. Have ever checked how many pve and pure pvp servers any game have? Usually 99 pve servers and 1 pvp. But i believe many want to TRY and play also pvp. But I do not see any scope in neglecting pve because of pvp.
That's because if your PvP is tacked on enough to be able to have a PvP server, its probably not worth playing.


Dark Age of Camelot is a PvP focused game. The PvP rule set servers were closed and the "Normal" rule set is now the primary rule set.

Eve is a PvP focused game. Half or more of Eve's players are focused on non-PvP activities, even if those activities contribute to the PvP.

Neither DAoC nor Eve can be considered to have 'tacked on' PvP.

You've got a lot of things wrong in this post.

DAoC is an RvR focused game. The FFA PVP servers, which were tacked on, got closed (as did the tacked on PvE only server, so your point just got destroyed). The regular servers, the ones with PvP baked into them, are still going.

Eve has PvP built into every aspect of the game. Even in PvE space, PvP effects everything. You cannot turn PvP off or the game would stop working. So your point is, once again, destroyed.

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

10/02/13 5:27:34 PM#162


Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by daltanious

Originally posted by Distopia I think they would. ...
Not at all. Have ever checked how many pve and pure pvp servers any game have? Usually 99 pve servers and 1 pvp. But i believe many want to TRY and play also pvp. But I do not see any scope in neglecting pve because of pvp.
That's because if your PvP is tacked on enough to be able to have a PvP server, its probably not worth playing.
Dark Age of Camelot is a PvP focused game. The PvP rule set servers were closed and the "Normal" rule set is now the primary rule set. Eve is a PvP focused game. Half or more of Eve's players are focused on non-PvP activities, even if those activities contribute to the PvP. Neither DAoC nor Eve can be considered to have 'tacked on' PvP.
You've got a lot of things wrong in this post.

DAoC is an RvR focused game. The FFA PVP servers, which were tacked on, got closed (as did the tacked on PvE only server, so your point just got destroyed). The regular servers, the ones with PvP baked into them, are still going.

Eve has PvP built into every aspect of the game. Even in PvE space, PvP effects everything. You cannot turn PvP off or the game would stop working. So your point is, once again, destroyed.




RvR in DAoC encompasses PvP. The game is about PvP. Everything the player does under the "Normal" rule set server leads up to PvP. There's not much point in playing the game if you're not going to eventually go out into the RvR areas and kill some other players. Unless you're on the co-op server, which was added after the "Normal" rule set option.

Eve allows half or more of the player base to run around not doing PvP. As I said, everything done contributes to PvP, but players can spend their entire Eve Career not engaging in PvP, which shouldn't be possible if the game actually worked the way you say it does.

It's not surprising that in PvE focused games the players don't regularly choose open world PvP. What should be surprising is that in games who exist because of PvP, the majority of the players choose to do things that aren't PvP.

PvE activities are chosen more often than PvP activities even in games based around PvP. Which means,

PvE is the more popular option for individual activities than PvP.

There are no examples of MMORPGs where PvP is the most popular option, and where that MMORPG is also a popular game. There are no examples in an MMORPG of players choosing more often than not to engage in PvP when players have a choice. It's been over twenty years. Let it go. PvP is not the popular option.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  rojoArcueid

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5825

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

10/02/13 5:34:13 PM#163

the only way a pvp focused mmo will be successful is if the company has a vision about PvP form the beginning and keep the focus on PvP through out the development. Same applies for PvE.

 

As soon as your company jumps to a different wagon to try and get more money with a bigger audience they fail miserably by not delivering enough quality and quantity on any fronts.

 

THey need to focus on what they want to make for their core audience, not what random people demand. Sadly, the latter is the more popular option nowadays because everyone wants to make more money and deliver content with less effort and focus as possible, which is why we keep getting mediocre products.

  Holophonist

Elite Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2050

10/02/13 5:41:41 PM#164
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by daltanious

Originally posted by Distopia I think they would. ...
Not at all. Have ever checked how many pve and pure pvp servers any game have? Usually 99 pve servers and 1 pvp. But i believe many want to TRY and play also pvp. But I do not see any scope in neglecting pve because of pvp.
That's because if your PvP is tacked on enough to be able to have a PvP server, its probably not worth playing.
Dark Age of Camelot is a PvP focused game. The PvP rule set servers were closed and the "Normal" rule set is now the primary rule set. Eve is a PvP focused game. Half or more of Eve's players are focused on non-PvP activities, even if those activities contribute to the PvP. Neither DAoC nor Eve can be considered to have 'tacked on' PvP.
You've got a lot of things wrong in this post.

 

DAoC is an RvR focused game. The FFA PVP servers, which were tacked on, got closed (as did the tacked on PvE only server, so your point just got destroyed). The regular servers, the ones with PvP baked into them, are still going.

Eve has PvP built into every aspect of the game. Even in PvE space, PvP effects everything. You cannot turn PvP off or the game would stop working. So your point is, once again, destroyed.




RvR in DAoC encompasses PvP. The game is about PvP. Everything the player does under the "Normal" rule set server leads up to PvP. There's not much point in playing the game if you're not going to eventually go out into the RvR areas and kill some other players. Unless you're on the co-op server, which was added after the "Normal" rule set option.

Eve allows half or more of the player base to run around not doing PvP. As I said, everything done contributes to PvP, but players can spend their entire Eve Career not engaging in PvP, which shouldn't be possible if the game actually worked the way you say it does.

It's not surprising that in PvE focused games the players don't regularly choose open world PvP. What should be surprising is that in games who exist because of PvP, the majority of the players choose to do things that aren't PvP.

PvE activities are chosen more often than PvP activities even in games based around PvP. Which means,

PvE is the more popular option for individual activities than PvP.

There are no examples of MMORPGs where PvP is the most popular option, and where that MMORPG is also a popular game. There are no examples in an MMORPG of players choosing more often than not to engage in PvP when players have a choice. It's been over twenty years. Let it go. PvP is not the popular option.

Mmmm I feel like you're just not getting the point. I don't think Davis is trying to say that pvp is a more popular option than pve. The point that (I think) he's making and the point that I and others have made in the past is that pvp that is tacked on (and thus able to have a "pvp server") isn't as good as pvp that is built into the gameplay. It's more meaningful to have pvp weaved into the mechanics/economy of the game. If I'm reading correctly, this would be the "normal ruleset" server that you're saying became the norm. That's what we want: a game that has both pvp and pve built into how the game is played.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15968

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

 
OP  10/02/13 6:27:27 PM#165
Originally posted by rojo6934

the only way a pvp focused mmo will be successful is if the company has a vision about PvP form the beginning and keep the focus on PvP through out the development. Same applies for PvE.

 

As soon as your company jumps to a different wagon to try and get more money with a bigger audience they fail miserably by not delivering enough quality and quantity on any fronts.

 

THey need to focus on what they want to make for their core audience, not what random people demand. Sadly, the latter is the more popular option nowadays because everyone wants to make more money and deliver content with less effort and focus as possible, which is why we keep getting mediocre products.

Exactly..

There's something else I wanted to respond to throughout this thread that I haven't yet. The idea that there's so many PVP MMORPG's out there, this just isn't the case whatsoever. There's a few, only two of which have what it takes to draw in a bigger crowd. EVE and PS2. Which PS2 isn't even an MMORPG in the truest sense, it's an MMOFPS through and through, there's little motivation to roleplay there. It's an action game.

I'm thinking SWG with a hard-coded focus on PVP and PVP support. There's hardly anything at all out there like this. Please don't say darkfall or MO is. If progression was handled through PVP and a trader/builders craft, all balancing was geared toward PVP, it has a budget to support this design at a level of quality on par with EVE or greater, there would be little reason this would fail. It wouldn't even have to be all out full loot or FFA. It just needs lots of thought put into different forms of PVP.

Also to the few saying PVPers don't even like the games they have available. Well no ****. How many PVERs are playing the indie PVE MMO's out there? I guess people really don't like PVE,  they're not all playing The saga of Ryzom, they wouldn't have let Spellborn fall either had this not been the case? I guess crafters don't like to craft because they're not all flocking to ATITD, hell they also let that cell-shaded crafters paradise get closed ( the name of it alludes me at present)?

 

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 7019

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

10/02/13 6:54:44 PM#166
Not in a MMORPG because it  keeps other players from enjoying the PVE experience they want.PVP belongs in FPS's where EVERY player has the same goal,that way you are not interfering with another gamer's play style.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15968

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

 
OP  10/02/13 7:41:29 PM#167
Originally posted by Wizardry
Not in a MMORPG because it  keeps other players from enjoying the PVE experience they want.PVP belongs in FPS's where EVERY player has the same goal,that way you are not interfering with another gamer's play style.

Uh,  why would they be in an MMORPG developed around PVP?

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  FlyinDutchman87

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/10
Posts: 187

10/02/13 7:56:47 PM#168
Mmmm I feel like you're just not getting the point. I don't think Davis is trying to say that pvp is a more popular option than pve. The point that (I think) he's making and the point that I and others have made in the past is that pvp that is tacked on (and thus able to have a "pvp server") isn't as good as pvp that is built into the gameplay. It's more meaningful to have pvp weaved into the mechanics/economy of the game. If I'm reading correctly, this would be the "normal ruleset" server that you're saying became the norm. That's what we want: a game that has both pvp and pve built into how the game is played.

/Agree

 

And there isn't a way to play EVE where you NEVER PvP.

 

Go mine in high-sec. It'll take about 3 hours before someone comes and starts can-flipping you.

 If you haul big enough cargo someone will eventually suicide-gank you to steal it.

And if you just hang out in Jita someone from goon will drive by and launch a bunch of bombs into the crowd just for the hell of it.

 

  aRtFuLThinG

Novice Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1116

10/02/13 8:13:30 PM#169
Originally posted by Distopia

I think they would.

I on the other hand, don't. Even though I mainly pvp.

 

And that's for one simple reason - a majority of players do not have the temperament for pvp games. They usually rage, blame others, don't have the ability to follow when required and lead when needed, or really be analytical to breakdown their game and learn from their mistakes. They lack the ability to respect opponent's skill/ability, lack the ability to distinguish the difference between a contest and a personal conflict, and deal with personal confrontations.

 

That's why there is always more pve than pvp players.

 

A studios will be quite niche if they focus on pvp only.

 

PvP is not for everyone.

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

10/02/13 10:44:29 PM#170
Originally posted by Holophonist
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by daltanious

Originally posted by Distopia I think they would. ...
Not at all. Have ever checked how many pve and pure pvp servers any game have? Usually 99 pve servers and 1 pvp. But i believe many want to TRY and play also pvp. But I do not see any scope in neglecting pve because of pvp.
That's because if your PvP is tacked on enough to be able to have a PvP server, its probably not worth playing.
Dark Age of Camelot is a PvP focused game. The PvP rule set servers were closed and the "Normal" rule set is now the primary rule set. Eve is a PvP focused game. Half or more of Eve's players are focused on non-PvP activities, even if those activities contribute to the PvP. Neither DAoC nor Eve can be considered to have 'tacked on' PvP.
You've got a lot of things wrong in this post.

 

DAoC is an RvR focused game. The FFA PVP servers, which were tacked on, got closed (as did the tacked on PvE only server, so your point just got destroyed). The regular servers, the ones with PvP baked into them, are still going.

Eve has PvP built into every aspect of the game. Even in PvE space, PvP effects everything. You cannot turn PvP off or the game would stop working. So your point is, once again, destroyed.




RvR in DAoC encompasses PvP. The game is about PvP. Everything the player does under the "Normal" rule set server leads up to PvP. There's not much point in playing the game if you're not going to eventually go out into the RvR areas and kill some other players. Unless you're on the co-op server, which was added after the "Normal" rule set option.

Eve allows half or more of the player base to run around not doing PvP. As I said, everything done contributes to PvP, but players can spend their entire Eve Career not engaging in PvP, which shouldn't be possible if the game actually worked the way you say it does.

It's not surprising that in PvE focused games the players don't regularly choose open world PvP. What should be surprising is that in games who exist because of PvP, the majority of the players choose to do things that aren't PvP.

PvE activities are chosen more often than PvP activities even in games based around PvP. Which means,

PvE is the more popular option for individual activities than PvP.

There are no examples of MMORPGs where PvP is the most popular option, and where that MMORPG is also a popular game. There are no examples in an MMORPG of players choosing more often than not to engage in PvP when players have a choice. It's been over twenty years. Let it go. PvP is not the popular option.

Mmmm I feel like you're just not getting the point. I don't think Davis is trying to say that pvp is a more popular option than pve. The point that (I think) he's making and the point that I and others have made in the past is that pvp that is tacked on (and thus able to have a "pvp server") isn't as good as pvp that is built into the gameplay. It's more meaningful to have pvp weaved into the mechanics/economy of the game. If I'm reading correctly, this would be the "normal ruleset" server that you're saying became the norm. That's what we want: a game that has both pvp and pve built into how the game is played.

Yes, this.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20652

10/03/13 12:51:18 AM#171
Originally posted by lizardbones

PvE activities are chosen more often than PvP activities even in games based around PvP. Which means,

PvE is the more popular option for individual activities than PvP.

There are no examples of MMORPGs where PvP is the most popular option, and where that MMORPG is also a popular game. There are no examples in an MMORPG of players choosing more often than not to engage in PvP when players have a choice. It's been over twenty years. Let it go. PvP is not the popular option.

 

Yet more players choose to play LoL than WOW, and WoT beat most MMORPGs except WoW and GW2.

So how is pve activities are chosen more often than pvp?

Personally i don't play those pvp games, but the trend is clear. May be players don't choose pvp over pve in the same game, but they certainly overwhelming chose pvp-only games.

 

  sethman75

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/13
Posts: 206

10/03/13 1:24:57 AM#172

Muha hah OP!!!!!!

I stopped reading after the first sentence where you said PvP players are easier to please.

PvP players are the biggest whingers in gaming full stop. It's because of PvP players that almost every MMO game out there gets nerfs and buffs.

It's because of PvP that PvE players suffer stupid changes to their characters every patch.

No studio in their sane mind would focus only on PvP players.

PvP is a niche genre fir a reason, most players hate it

 

 

  GuyClinch

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/28/13
Posts: 487

10/03/13 3:33:51 AM#173
Actually I think if someone could do a good job - a pure PvE game would be pretty sweet too. Not sure what PvP guys get out of ditching PvE. But I do know that games that don't have PvP can have more class based differences - which I really ilke.
  Rollermint

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/03/13
Posts: 21

10/03/13 10:12:17 AM#174

Theres nothing wrong with games being either focused on PVP or PVE.

The main recurring problem, imho, with most MMOs are the players themselves...basically their expectations.

If they come into a PVP-focused game expecting stellar PVE content, they will end up disappointed. Likewise, if a PVP'er comes into a mainly PVE game and expects to be treated as a top priority, you will again end up unsatisfied. The blame lies mostly on the players themselves.

Not to say game studios are entirely blameless, sometimes they themselves are trying too hard to please both camps while not having the experience, background or resources like Blizzard, CCP or what else have you. Even established MMO studios took YEARS to reach where they are today...and their journey were all very rough and turbulent.

For smaller studios, I think they need to decide whether they'll be a PVP or PVE focused games. I applaud what Red 5 is doing, by ditching PVP and focusing on the strengths of their product and studio + main playerbase. Focus on your strengths first and be good at it, rather than trying to appease the always fickle always bitter MMO gamers that don't really know what they actually want. Most will end up being watered down generic versions but with different skins and your "playerbase" will simply slide off to the next new generic title.

  TalulaRose

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 453

10/03/13 10:20:43 AM#175
I've played many a game with pvp and it amazes me how many times the people that want to pvp ignore each other and go after the people who do not want to pvp.
  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

10/03/13 11:20:13 AM#176


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by lizardbones PvE activities are chosen more often than PvP activities even in games based around PvP. Which means, PvE is the more popular option for individual activities than PvP. There are no examples of MMORPGs where PvP is the most popular option, and where that MMORPG is also a popular game. There are no examples in an MMORPG of players choosing more often than not to engage in PvP when players have a choice. It's been over twenty years. Let it go. PvP is not the popular option.  
Yet more players choose to play LoL than WOW, and WoT beat most MMORPGs except WoW and GW2.

So how is pve activities are chosen more often than pvp?

Personally i don't play those pvp games, but the trend is clear. May be players don't choose pvp over pve in the same game, but they certainly overwhelming chose pvp-only games.

 




LoL, DOTA, WoT, CoD, and the other lobby or match based games aren't MMORPGs. In an earlier post I mentioned them as examples of where PvP players are playing. It's not in MMORPGs. The MMORPG PvP player is by far the minority.

If you're talking about MMOs in general, not limited to MMORPGs, then yes, individuals by far choose PvP activities. They just don't do it in MMORPGs.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  FlyinDutchman87

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/10
Posts: 187

10/03/13 11:37:01 AM#177
Originally posted by lizardbones

 

LoL, DOTA, WoT, CoD, and the other lobby or match based games aren't MMORPGs. In an earlier post I mentioned them as examples of where PvP players are playing. It's not in MMORPGs. The MMORPG PvP player is by far the minority.

If you're talking about MMOs in general, not limited to MMORPGs, then yes, individuals by far choose PvP activities. They just don't do it in MMORPGs.

 

 

Exactly.

 

Although I'd argue that LoL, Dota and Wot arn't MMO's at all, but that's semantics.

 

You could make your point that PvP MMO's are the most popular because CoD and Halo have a Bajillion players.

 

Which while completely true doesn't really enter into the conversation for PvP MMORPG's.

 

Personally I'm happy to have PvP MMORPG's as a niche genera. Keep the masses outta my games and they'll keep their grubby mitts away from it. Or else a month after launch we'll be hearing about how the wandering Mobs in the RvR lakes need to drop better loot..... *shudder*

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

10/03/13 11:42:30 AM#178


Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Holophonist

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by daltanious

Originally posted by Distopia I think they would. ...
Not at all. Have ever checked how many pve and pure pvp servers any game have? Usually 99 pve servers and 1 pvp. But i believe many want to TRY and play also pvp. But I do not see any scope in neglecting pve because of pvp.
That's because if your PvP is tacked on enough to be able to have a PvP server, its probably not worth playing.
Dark Age of Camelot is a PvP focused game. The PvP rule set servers were closed and the "Normal" rule set is now the primary rule set. Eve is a PvP focused game. Half or more of Eve's players are focused on non-PvP activities, even if those activities contribute to the PvP. Neither DAoC nor Eve can be considered to have 'tacked on' PvP.
You've got a lot of things wrong in this post.   DAoC is an RvR focused game. The FFA PVP servers, which were tacked on, got closed (as did the tacked on PvE only server, so your point just got destroyed). The regular servers, the ones with PvP baked into them, are still going. Eve has PvP built into every aspect of the game. Even in PvE space, PvP effects everything. You cannot turn PvP off or the game would stop working. So your point is, once again, destroyed.
RvR in DAoC encompasses PvP. The game is about PvP. Everything the player does under the "Normal" rule set server leads up to PvP. There's not much point in playing the game if you're not going to eventually go out into the RvR areas and kill some other players. Unless you're on the co-op server, which was added after the "Normal" rule set option. Eve allows half or more of the player base to run around not doing PvP. As I said, everything done contributes to PvP, but players can spend their entire Eve Career not engaging in PvP, which shouldn't be possible if the game actually worked the way you say it does. It's not surprising that in PvE focused games the players don't regularly choose open world PvP. What should be surprising is that in games who exist because of PvP, the majority of the players choose to do things that aren't PvP. PvE activities are chosen more often than PvP activities even in games based around PvP. Which means, PvE is the more popular option for individual activities than PvP. There are no examples of MMORPGs where PvP is the most popular option, and where that MMORPG is also a popular game. There are no examples in an MMORPG of players choosing more often than not to engage in PvP when players have a choice. It's been over twenty years. Let it go. PvP is not the popular option.
Mmmm I feel like you're just not getting the point. I don't think Davis is trying to say that pvp is a more popular option than pve. The point that (I think) he's making and the point that I and others have made in the past is that pvp that is tacked on (and thus able to have a "pvp server") isn't as good as pvp that is built into the gameplay. It's more meaningful to have pvp weaved into the mechanics/economy of the game. If I'm reading correctly, this would be the "normal ruleset" server that you're saying became the norm. That's what we want: a game that has both pvp and pve built into how the game is played.
Yes, this.



If a game can provide something meaningful for the players to do, whether it's PvP or not, then yes, the game is going to keep more players. Eve provides something to do for people who aren't interested in PvP.

I'm not sure this supports the argument though. Eve is a PvP game that provides lots of space for PvE game play. That's not the same thing as Eve focusing on PvP players as Mortal Online or Darkfall does.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  FlyinDutchman87

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/10
Posts: 187

10/03/13 12:03:35 PM#179
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


If a game can provide something meaningful for the players to do, whether it's PvP or not, then yes, the game is going to keep more players. Eve provides something to do for people who aren't interested in PvP.

I'm not sure this supports the argument though. Eve is a PvP game that provides lots of space for PvE game play. That's not the same thing as Eve focusing on PvP players as Mortal Online or Darkfall does.

 

I Think it does... Because the PvP in EvE is integral to the PvE expereince.PvP is what drives the markets, which in turn is what drives the PvE.

 

THAT is what most modern games are missing.

 

The WvW in Gw2 is fun, I'm having a blast with it... But it has 0 impact on the game world. It's in a neat little box, that they could completely remove tomorrow and only the people who WvW would notice or care.

 

If you removed the PvP from EvE, the markets would go-hay wire, The Player Alliances would collapse and the entire game would be in disarray.

 

That's how it SHOULD work. You can't remove an important part of something without it having an impact on the entire system. It's the difference between losing a finger, and losing your liver.

 

 

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5725

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

10/03/13 12:25:28 PM#180
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by nariusseldon




LoL, DOTA, WoT, CoD, and the other lobby or match based games aren't MMORPGs. In an earlier post I mentioned them as examples of where PvP players are playing. It's not in MMORPGs. The MMORPG PvP player is by far the minority.

If you're talking about MMOs in general, not limited to MMORPGs, then yes, individuals by far choose PvP activities. They just don't do it in MMORPGs.

 

Where do you draw the line between MMOs and non-MMOs? WoT has a map where clans battle for the supremacy of the world. Battles are resolved in instanced matches, sure, but no one can claim that there is no persistent world.

I distinctly remember FPSes being in development which plan to use a similar system to make world PvP/RvR more fair -> more fun.

The line is not as clear as you think.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

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