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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » How to DPS in FFXIV

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72 posts found
  Bluewhitehell

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/31/13
Posts: 68

10/02/13 2:05:33 PM#21
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Ridelynn

 


Originally posted by donpopuki
I think the problem is you have a lot of new people playing an MMO for the first time because of the console crossover.

 

Actually I would say the problem more lay with all the older MMO players who have just gotten used to games where tank threat is infinite and you can just bulldoze through trash, and where the Recount readout means more than winning or losing the dungeon/raid (cough*wow*cough).

Tanks don't have the same toolset here that exists in other games. I usually tank in other games, I can't figure it out in this one yet. I have a healthy respect for those who can tank well in spite of the toolset and in spite of the players - they are clearly better players than I am.

Play marauder/warrior - use AoE attack, when TP is 0, use glad flash. You will never lose aggro.

 

This, tank and DPS should be AoE attacking the mob in lower level dungeons, you won't die as DPS if you AoE attack mobs unless healer suck, you're just killing everything slower if you kill mobs one by one.

It gets a lot more dangerous after level 35~40+ to AoE everything though, that's when you kill mobs one by one. In lv 50 speed runs, back to AoE everything again.

 

  Alamareth

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 574

10/02/13 5:54:36 PM#22
Originally posted by Bluewhitehell
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Ridelynn

 


Originally posted by donpopuki
I think the problem is you have a lot of new people playing an MMO for the first time because of the console crossover.

 

Actually I would say the problem more lay with all the older MMO players who have just gotten used to games where tank threat is infinite and you can just bulldoze through trash, and where the Recount readout means more than winning or losing the dungeon/raid (cough*wow*cough).

Tanks don't have the same toolset here that exists in other games. I usually tank in other games, I can't figure it out in this one yet. I have a healthy respect for those who can tank well in spite of the toolset and in spite of the players - they are clearly better players than I am.

Play marauder/warrior - use AoE attack, when TP is 0, use glad flash. You will never lose aggro.

 

This, tank and DPS should be AoE attacking the mob in lower level dungeons, you won't die as DPS if you AoE attack mobs unless healer suck, you're just killing everything slower if you kill mobs one by one.

It gets a lot more dangerous after level 35~40+ to AoE everything though, that's when you kill mobs one by one. In lv 50 speed runs, back to AoE everything again.

 

Uhhh, no.  I am a healer so I'll take a minute to set you straight here.

A DPS needs to manage their aggro.  Most have tool kits that allow for it.  All are controlled by the individual so there is *never* an excuse for doing nothing about aggro.

A DPS can easily screw up aggro by single focusing an alt target too hard as opposed to hitting alt targets with AoE.  The tank is there to ensure that your AoE doesn't force aggro, not to give you a blanket promise of zero aggro.  The healer isn't your keeper either.

If a healer is healing a DPS for any reason other than the DPS was hit by an UNAVOIDABLE skill - the DPS is at fault.  Period.

If you have gotten to Titan HM yet you'd know that the worst player-archetype in FFXIV is the DPS.  They are frequently oblivious to their surroundings and just assume the tank will take care of them.  That isn't how trinity systems work.

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3168

10/02/13 6:24:09 PM#23


Originally posted by Alamareth
Uhhh, no.  I am a healer so I'll take a minute to set you straight here.

A DPS needs to manage their aggro.  Most have tool kits that allow for it.  All are controlled by the individual so there is *never* an excuse for doing nothing about aggro.

A DPS can easily screw up aggro by single focusing an alt target too hard as opposed to hitting alt targets with AoE.  The tank is there to ensure that your AoE doesn't force aggro, not to give you a blanket promise of zero aggro.  The healer isn't your keeper either.

If a healer is healing a DPS for any reason other than the DPS was hit by an UNAVOIDABLE skill - the DPS is at fault.  Period.

If you have gotten to Titan HM yet you'd know that the worst player-archetype in FFXIV is the DPS.  They are frequently oblivious to their surroundings and just assume the tank will take care of them.  That isn't how trinity systems work.


+1

Thank you to all the tanks & healers that put up with it regardless

  tommygunzII

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/11
Posts: 309

10/02/13 6:31:19 PM#24

A tip for ranged DPS if tank is less than spectacular is to pay attention to the enmity meter. An example is if you hit a mob once and jump to number 2 on the enmity list with the gauge at 50%, you are on the wrong mob. Hitting it again will probably be enough to pull hate from the tank.

 

  goboygo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/13
Posts: 261

10/02/13 6:34:39 PM#25
Originally posted by TheSlither

I have also tip for you:

 

Play with friends not with pugs.

How about we also close the schools and just hang out with people that have already learned something.  No point in trying to teach anyone something if you can just hang out with your cool "learned" friends.

 

Posts that teach people things are a GOOD thing.

  Rhoklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/12/04
Posts: 2900

$500 Backer to 2014's Top New MMO... The Repopulation!

10/02/13 6:35:45 PM#26
I never take aggro, cause I haven't designed my macro yet for while I go AFK.

  goboygo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/13
Posts: 261

10/02/13 6:37:16 PM#27
Originally posted by donpopuki
I think the problem is you have a lot of new people playing an MMO for the first time because of the console crossover.

Are you implying that most console players are completely ignorant to group play, and would rather eat Cheetos and pull bong loads from the sofa?

Is that what your trying to tell me man!!!!!

 

edit:  I spelled bong wrong, imagine that.

  Alders

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1546

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

10/02/13 6:44:39 PM#28

It's not as black and white as blaming stupid DPS.

When there's no system in place to punish stupid play, then players will do what they will.

DPS don't have to hold back on trash pulls in XIV because it honestly doesn't matter, unless you have a bad healer.  For bosses sure, but everything else can be managed by almost any class up to a point.  That's the problem.

Want to discourage or prevent this?  Make mobs, even trash pulls, one-shot anyone not a tank and provide some negative "reward" for doing so.  Watch how quickly DPS pay attention and follow orders.

  goboygo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/13
Posts: 261

10/02/13 6:49:42 PM#29
Originally posted by Alders

It's not as black and white as blaming stupid DPS.

When there's no system in place to punish stupid play, then players will do what they will.

DPS don't have to hold back on trash pulls in XIV because it honestly doesn't matter, unless you have a bad healer.  For bosses sure, but everything else can be managed by almost any class up to a point.  That's the problem.

Want to discourage or prevent this?  Make mobs, even trash pulls, one-shot anyone not a tank and provide some negative "reward" for doing so.  Watch how quickly DPS pay attention and follow orders.

You are right.

Why are non dungeon trash mobs in this game like kicking over my little sister?  

I actually love using WoW comparisons.  In WoW if you pulled agro on trash you were pretty much three shotted, people learned quick.  There is no reason not to pull agro in this game, non boss mobs are harmless.

It makes no sense at all.

  Sephiroso

Elite Member

Joined: 8/01/05
Posts: 1056

10/02/13 6:56:39 PM#30
Originally posted by CowboyHat

ITT: Elitist rage

 

You have to remember not everyone grew up on MMO's some people on the console. Most people will listen to you if you explain what to do. Seems like you'd rather sit on your high horse then explain mechanics to new people though. Going into an instance with the attitude you have is a poor idea. Maybe PUGs aren't for you.

In what way is the OP raging like an elitist? He gave very basic tips to dps that should be common sense, it doesnt matter if this is someones first mmo or not, tips are tips. It's not like he was name calling or calling people downright retarded for not following them.


Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  aRtFuLThinG

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1000

10/02/13 7:02:22 PM#31
Originally posted by CowboyHat

ITT: Elitist rage

 

You have to remember not everyone grew up on MMO's some people on the console. Most people will listen to you if you explain what to do. Seems like you'd rather sit on your high horse then explain mechanics to new people though. Going into an instance with the attitude you have is a poor idea. Maybe PUGs aren't for you.

I don't know what he said is really considered elitist rage or not but I certainly find pve rage laughable.

 

You are playing against AI lol. Calm down.

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 2884

For the Queen!

10/02/13 7:02:43 PM#32
As a paladin main, I gotta say, good post from OP hehe.  I think people haven't played a MMO where you had to worry about agro in awhile.

  Psistorm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/13/13
Posts: 27

10/02/13 7:12:01 PM#33
Originally posted by Sephiroso
Originally posted by CowboyHat

ITT: Elitist rage

 

You have to remember not everyone grew up on MMO's some people on the console. Most people will listen to you if you explain what to do. Seems like you'd rather sit on your high horse then explain mechanics to new people though. Going into an instance with the attitude you have is a poor idea. Maybe PUGs aren't for you.

In what way is the OP raging like an elitist? He gave very basic tips to dps that should be common sense, it doesnt matter if this is someones first mmo or not, tips are tips. It's not like he was name calling or calling people downright retarded for not following them.

Pretty much this.

I decided to use FF14 to get some more practice with tanking, since I rolled DPS in most games, but on one hand wanted something more, and on the other hand like ability to be more useful to my party. The insta-queues are nice too at that.

Most the time I run dungeons with two friends, one being pretty good heals, the other seasoned dps. So only one pug at a time, but still we find people who simply will not learn from their mistakes. During ifrit, I had an archer who was pulling so much aggro that my flash, provoke and shield lobs were doing nothing whatsoever to peel from that guy. He just kept dpsing until I finally got the mob back. I think i lost this mob 2-3 more times to the archer, and he just kept dpsing hardcore.

Of course who didn't kill the nail the first time around despite me marking it? Yup, the archer.

So yeah, some good, honest advice in the OP. The dungeons so far are anything but hard and easy to understand, so people really need to pay a little more attention to at least the very basic mechanics.

  Dragonsfire9

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 11

10/02/13 7:30:17 PM#34
I play a healer and use the DF quite regularly.  I have to say the most ignorant tools I have run into have all been tanks.  Many are clueless on how to hold hate or they don't even try because they want to teach the overeager dps a lesson rather than 'splain it to them.  There are definitely some good tanks to be found via the duty finder but those are the ones that are calm and take the time to explain to everyone what to do to make the run easier for us all.  Not dumbasses that would afk and waste everyones time because they are too immature to work with someone that is not perfect.
  kartool

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 431

10/02/13 7:42:02 PM#35
Originally posted by Grailer

 

Lately I've been seeing some of the worst DPS that I've seen in 15 years of gaming .

 

So as I sit AFK at start of dungeon refusing to tank with players who are blantantly trying to make my gaming experience hell. ( I could leave but why should I get 15 minute penalty ? )

 

So what  to do as DPS .

Tips:

 

1.  When you see numbers on top of mobs that the tank has marked  , and the tank is hitting those numbers in order you also hit those numbers in order.

2. When tank runs towards mobs that doesn't mean open fire as fast as possible on any random creature , give tank time to hit the mob at leave once .

3. If you take agro because you didn't follow tip number 1 or 2 above, don't start doing MORE dps and think "YEAH BABY IM TANKING WOOHOO!"  , instead you should cease DPS on that mob until the tank regains agro .

4. If healer sleeps a mob that the tank isn't fighting that doesn't mean "WOOHOO TIME TO ANNOY THE HEALER" and hit that target.  It means you follow tip 1 and 2 .

 

 

I have a lot more tips but those are the basics .

I'm playing as a BLM and you could easily make this list for any class in the game. That being said, I don't disagree with you. I have seen this behaviour.

Tanks - it's your job to get aggro. Don't get aggro on one mob and leave the rest to attack your healer. It's even worse when I sleep the mobs attacking the healer and then the other DPS or the healer himself attacks those mobs. Also, I have played with two kinds of tanks. One, I can open fire on his target and never have to worry about getting aggro, even if I tried. The other, are the ones that can't hold aggro at all. Healer of DPS will always end up getting smoked even if they just stand there. Also, Tanks should always mark their damn targets. I'm not a mind reader and if you suddenly decide to switch to another target I'm not always going to notice right away. Then, because I can't see what the hell is going on because of all the awesome effects and nothing is marked - I have to tab through the targets to see which ones health is dropping. 

Healer - it's not your job to tank or do DPS. Concentrate on keeping yourself, the tank and finally the 2 DPS alive. If possible, do a little CC.

DPS - you pretty much said it all OP. 

Some general suggestions:

All non-Tanks classes, if you do get aggro, run to the damn tank. If he hasn't noticed you have something on you, run on over and show him and likely he will take care of it.

Every job that can pick up a healing skill - should. I can't tell you the number of times having Physick on my mage has saved my ass when the healer wasn't paying attention or on those occasions when the Tank has a hard time. 

When a window pops up with instructions, read them. It is explaining the fight mechanics to you so someone doesn't have to explain it to you after you wipe 4 times because you didn't know to stay out of the red spots, or not kill the enemy that needs to die first.

Regardless of your class, learn to play it. People will like playing with you and you'll get to successfully experience more of the game without people rage quitting on you.

  FlyByKnight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/12
Posts: 312

10/02/13 7:47:19 PM#36
Apparently tanks can only hold agro on 1 enemy out of a set of mobs at a time. Don't use AoEs because  tanks don't like chewing gum and walking at the same time.
  TwoThreeFour

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2133

10/03/13 4:21:11 AM#37

Another tip since I am now playing tank too:

 

* If your tank is able to keep AoE aggro and survive, then use your AoE skills and do not use knockback abilities to make one enemy get out of AoE range.

  TwoThreeFour

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2133

10/03/13 4:27:18 AM#38
Originally posted by Dragonsfire9
I play a healer and use the DF quite regularly.  I have to say the most ignorant tools I have run into have all been tanks.  Many are clueless on how to hold hate or they don't even try because they want to teach the overeager dps a lesson rather than 'splain it to them.  There are definitely some good tanks to be found via the duty finder but those are the ones that are calm and take the time to explain to everyone what to do to make the run easier for us all.  Not dumbasses that would afk and waste everyones time because they are too immature to work with someone that is not perfect.

There are also tanks who don't speak a word about mechanics, and only explain when there is an actual failure :). 

  Sephiroso

Elite Member

Joined: 8/01/05
Posts: 1056

10/03/13 5:11:06 AM#39
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Dragonsfire9
I play a healer and use the DF quite regularly.  I have to say the most ignorant tools I have run into have all been tanks.  Many are clueless on how to hold hate or they don't even try because they want to teach the overeager dps a lesson rather than 'splain it to them.  There are definitely some good tanks to be found via the duty finder but those are the ones that are calm and take the time to explain to everyone what to do to make the run easier for us all.  Not dumbasses that would afk and waste everyones time because they are too immature to work with someone that is not perfect.

There are also tanks who don't speak a word about mechanics, and only explain when there is an actual failure :). 

Because people dont know how to speak up and say "hey i'm new and dont know the fights"

 

If no one says anything, its assumed you know the fight.


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  TwoThreeFour

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2133

10/03/13 7:16:39 AM#40
Originally posted by Sephiroso
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Dragonsfire9
I play a healer and use the DF quite regularly.  I have to say the most ignorant tools I have run into have all been tanks.  Many are clueless on how to hold hate or they don't even try because they want to teach the overeager dps a lesson rather than 'splain it to them.  There are definitely some good tanks to be found via the duty finder but those are the ones that are calm and take the time to explain to everyone what to do to make the run easier for us all.  Not dumbasses that would afk and waste everyones time because they are too immature to work with someone that is not perfect.

There are also tanks who don't speak a word about mechanics, and only explain when there is an actual failure :). 

Because people dont know how to speak up and say "hey i'm new and dont know the fights"

 

If no one says anything, its assumed you know the fight.

I saw it is a more positive thing: they don't want to spoil the fight, so they choose to not speak until you actually wipe XD.

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