Trending Games | ArcheAge | Pirate101 | Wasteland 2 | MapleStory

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,860,203 Users Online:0
Games:742  Posts:6,245,810
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The MMO Genre has become stale and boring.

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 » Search
82 posts found
  Ender4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2096

10/01/13 5:15:35 PM#41


that's the dumbest statement I've ever heard, I dislike the current cop of mmo's as much as anyone.  However blaming the consumer for purchasing a product they  like or not purchasing a product they dislike is rather comical.

But that is exactly how markets work. The player base has asked for MMO's to move in a direction I don't like. You can't blame the game designers, they are just making the game that the majority of people are asking for. If the market wants a game on rails that is easy with tons of easy to obtain rewards that is the game the companies are going to make. The reason the games are like this is the consumer though. The important difference is that this isn't going to change, it isn't like the game companies will suddenly wake up and make games like they used to. They are just adapting to what people want.

  DavisFlight

Elite Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2586

10/01/13 5:18:11 PM#42
Welcome to 2005.
  BMBender

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 557

10/01/13 5:32:07 PM#43
Originally posted by Ender4

 


that's the dumbest statement I've ever heard, I dislike the current cop of mmo's as much as anyone.  However blaming the consumer for purchasing a product they  like or not purchasing a product they dislike is rather comical.

 

But that is exactly how markets work. The player base has asked for MMO's to move in a direction I don't like. You can't blame the game designers, they are just making the game that the majority of people are asking for. If the market wants a game on rails that is easy with tons of easy to obtain rewards that is the game the companies are going to make. The reason the games are like this is the consumer though. The important difference is that this isn't going to change, it isn't like the game companies will suddenly wake up and make games like they used to. They are just adapting to what people want.

Actually that's incorrect.  mmo creators are not reacting to market conditions, they are reacting to what they THINK are market conditions.  This site alone represents a fairly significant untapped market share.  Skyrim, GTV ect didn't get those box sales because "well conventional wisdom says we need to kinda sorta do this but market "everyone"  No they actively Identified the specific sub market they wanted to exploit, marketed that specific demographic, developed the plan, feature sets, and systems that matched the demographic they were marketing, and were unafraid to encourage untargeted demographics to look elsewhere.  As well they didn't design a game or select a demographic from what they wanted to do, they made sure both were in the realm of what they could do.

 

Hostess did business much the same way mmo's do with predictable results

  laserit

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1466

Confusius say: Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger

10/01/13 5:39:22 PM#44
Originally posted by BMBender
Originally posted by Ender4

 


that's the dumbest statement I've ever heard, I dislike the current cop of mmo's as much as anyone.  However blaming the consumer for purchasing a product they  like or not purchasing a product they dislike is rather comical.

 

But that is exactly how markets work. The player base has asked for MMO's to move in a direction I don't like. You can't blame the game designers, they are just making the game that the majority of people are asking for. If the market wants a game on rails that is easy with tons of easy to obtain rewards that is the game the companies are going to make. The reason the games are like this is the consumer though. The important difference is that this isn't going to change, it isn't like the game companies will suddenly wake up and make games like they used to. They are just adapting to what people want.

Actually that's incorrect.  mmo creators are not reacting to market conditions, they are reacting to what they THINK are market conditions.  This site alone represents a fairly significant untapped market share.  Skyrim, GTV ect didn't get those box sales because "well conventional wisdom says we need to kinda sorta do this but market "everyone"  No they actively Identified the specific sub market they wanted to exploit, marketed that specific demographic, developed the plan, feature sets, and systems that matched the demographic they were marketing, and were unafraid to discourage untargeted demographics to look elsewhere.  As well they didn't design a game or select a demographic from what they wanted to do, they made sure both were in the realm of what they could do.

 

Hostess did business much the same way mmo's do with predictable results

Which is why I'm definitely giving Crowd Sourcing a shot.

 

Last thing I want is Shrinks and Market Analysts involved in my game design ;)  

I made a double sided USB cable and I plugged my Console into my PC... or did I plug my PC into my Console? Anyway I can now play Console games on my PC! and play PC games on my Console!

FRIGGING AWESOME!

  BMBender

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 557

10/01/13 5:42:53 PM#45
Originally posted by laserit

Which is why I'm definitely giving Crowd Sourcing a shot.

 

Last thing I want is Shrinks and Market Analysts involved in my game design ;)  

good luck to them I wish them all the best, but for most I've seen it's still design without  a plan to a viable endpoint.  Dreamers are a great thing.  A rational and practical way to meet parts of that dream are even better

  GuyClinch

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/13
Posts: 480

10/01/13 7:37:57 PM#46
Originally posted by BMBender
Originally posted by Ender4

 


that's the dumbest statement I've ever heard, I dislike the current cop of mmo's as much as anyone.  However blaming the consumer for purchasing a product they  like or not purchasing a product they dislike is rather comical.

 

But that is exactly how markets work. The player base has asked for MMO's to move in a direction I don't like. You can't blame the game designers, they are just making the game that the majority of people are asking for. If the market wants a game on rails that is easy with tons of easy to obtain rewards that is the game the companies are going to make. The reason the games are like this is the consumer though. The important difference is that this isn't going to change, it isn't like the game companies will suddenly wake up and make games like they used to. They are just adapting to what people want.

Actually that's incorrect.  mmo creators are not reacting to market conditions, they are reacting to what they THINK are market conditions.  This site alone represents a fairly significant untapped market share.  Skyrim, GTV ect didn't get those box sales because "well conventional wisdom says we need to kinda sorta do this but market "everyone"  No they actively Identified the specific sub market they wanted to exploit, marketed that specific demographic, developed the plan, feature sets, and systems that matched the demographic they were marketing, and were unafraid to encourage untargeted demographics to look elsewhere.  As well they didn't design a game or select a demographic from what they wanted to do, they made sure both were in the realm of what they could do.

Agreed. What is very interesting to me anyway is the idea that in technology and gaming players don't actually know what they want. They just know what they like - AFTER they play it. Malcolm Gladwell was talking about this the other day (in a round about way).

Its a kind of false attribution that many people make..  The example that Gladwell gives is a tennis player. You can find pro tennis players out there who have tremendous skills. But if you interview them - many of them don't actually know how they do what they do on the court. They give incorrect explanations for their strokes..

It's even worse with video games. What's going on is because MMOs are so expensive the developers want to 'get it right'. So they do 'market research' as to what people want in a game. Then they give them that game. But it turns out people don't want THAT. GW2 and World of Warcraft are just textbook example of this phenomenon, IMHO.

Almost all the changes and design comes out of player requests. How bout having no gear grind (GW2) - how bout no Holy Trinity - How bout every does DPS? etc etc. Same thing with WoW.. how bout dual specs, flying mounts, porting to dungeons. group finders, raid finders etc etc.

Then these poor designers implement these focus group driven features - a few people claim to love them - but they end up with less people playing then they imagined. Blizzard cited the 'revamp' of the entire 1-60 content as drive by player designers. Players claimed they were leaving because it was to hard at the start. I say that all you know is that players are leaving - you can't take their reason 'why' at face value.  I know that sounds crazy - but it seems to be true. Players figure out how they feel - and then come up with reasons to 'support' that.. Sometimes those reasons just aren't correct.

This is why - it seems to me time after time the very best games in the industry are NOT focus group driven. The developers just made a game they thought would be cool. It doesn't matter if its a casual game "Angry Birds" or an MMO - EvE. When they make the games they want to make - good things happen..

 

 

 

 

 

  Ender4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2096

10/01/13 9:17:36 PM#47


This site alone represents a fairly significant untapped market share.

This is definitely true for most game genres but it is a lot different with MMORPG's. Most genres you don't need a huge investment to make a game that targets a more niche market. Path of Exile is a nice little game that specifically targets older D2 fans instead of the current market. It was made on a smaller budget and funded largely by donations. It has tons of little flaws largely centered around disconnects, poor mob AI etc that come from not having AAA development. The problem is that a MMO that is funded this way in general is just unplayable.

Even with a bigger budget a lot of these games are just awful. WAR was dead before it ever came out, it was just a clunky pile of junk, they couldn't get the combat to run smoothly. SWTOR was doomed before release, I could tell you it was going FTP within 2 years. Darkfall is one of the more famous but the execution was so bad it couldn't even fill the niche it wanted. I won't even mention Vanguard which was so bad it ate peoples PCs. The budget required to pull these games off just make them very hard to aim at a smaller portion of the market. As the genre matures it will probably become easier and easier but that is still a number of years away.

The concept behind the games might have been solid but actually producing these games is harder than any other genre. On top of all of that the market is pushing towards no subscriptions which makes your margin for profits even smaller, it is getting harder to compete, not easier.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

10/01/13 11:36:54 PM#48

If we accept your premise on faith:

Why do you feel the need to garner support before (or after) you move on?

Don't let the door hit you etc.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  GuyClinch

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/13
Posts: 480

10/02/13 3:11:14 AM#49

"In conclusion....my time playing MMO's has past, its time to give up on them completely and move on :), simply not worth my time anymore. But for those that still enjoy grinding and getting new gear for the tenth mmo game straight...then enjoy."

But its worth your time to write about not liking them? No offense you sound like an addict trying to quit. MMOs are no more repetitve then any other video game genre - and no worse a waste of time then watching TV IMHO. But good luck with the whole self hate thing.

  Mors.Magne

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1428

10/02/13 3:25:20 AM#50

I'm 40 years old and I totally agree with the OP.

However, it's not games that are the problem - the 'problem' is that you 'grow up'.

 

To begin with, a game like WoW is amazing fun, but after many years you want more than short-term fun - you want real life fulfillment.

 

It takes time to build up a family and a career.

 

  daltanious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1784

10/02/13 6:39:37 AM#51
Originally posted by Salenger

Decided to make this post as I am a long time gamer since Ultima Online and Asherons call, I have played pretty much every MMO since then very few of which I stuck with for more than 1-2 months, the few I did were Darkfall, Istaria and SWG.

 ,,,

In conclusion....my time playing MMO's has past, its time to give up on them completely and move on :), simply not worth my time anymore.  But for those that still enjoy grinding and getting new gear for the tenth mmo game straight...then enjoy.

If you really thing all is about "grinding" and "getting new" gear .. then you have missed whole "mmo life".

  Ender4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2096

10/02/13 9:02:50 AM#52

The only game I see coming that has a chance to fix this is EQ next. Even if the game itself stinks it is pushing new concepts into the genre that should last into future games and since most of it is AI driven it isn't just tweaking what already exists like say GW2 did. It is actually changing the game at the design level.

  BMBender

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 557

10/02/13 10:35:24 AM#53
Originally posted by Ender4

 


This site alone represents a fairly significant untapped market share.

 

This is definitely true for most game genres but it is a lot different with MMORPG's. Most genres you don't need a huge investment to make a game that targets a more niche market. Path of Exile is a nice little game that specifically targets older D2 fans instead of the current market. It was made on a smaller budget and funded largely by donations. It has tons of little flaws largely centered around disconnects, poor mob AI etc that come from not having AAA development. The problem is that a MMO that is funded this way in general is just unplayable.

Even with a bigger budget a lot of these games are just awful. WAR was dead before it ever came out, it was just a clunky pile of junk, they couldn't get the combat to run smoothly. SWTOR was doomed before release, I could tell you it was going FTP within 2 years. Darkfall is one of the more famous but the execution was so bad it couldn't even fill the niche it wanted. I won't even mention Vanguard which was so bad it ate peoples PCs. The budget required to pull these games off just make them very hard to aim at a smaller portion of the market. As the genre matures it will probably become easier and easier but that is still a number of years away.

The concept behind the games might have been solid but actually producing these games is harder than any other genre. On top of all of that the market is pushing towards no subscriptions which makes your margin for profits even smaller, it is getting harder to compete, not easier.

Witch is why I keep saying they should stop trying to pull every swinging D... into their game.  Pick a target audience;  make the game YOU (the developer) wants to play, and don't be afraid to discourage other demographics away.  I think they would find if an actual practical plan and design concept would actually keep costs down. Going 50 different directions at once it's no wonder the return on investment for mmos suck(in comparison to every other form of entertainment media on the planet).

 

And the reasons it's getting harder to compete is they all keep chasing the EXACT SAME demographic

marketing 101 if you have the same similar product as a competitor you better  have either a better product, cheaper, better marketing, or buyout the competition

 

Competing in the same market space with the EXACT same target scheme as your competition, the exact same features with a bell or whistle thrown in for "diversity" it's no wonder they all fail to meet the designers expectations.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19830

10/02/13 10:39:21 AM#54
Originally posted by Ender4

The only game I see coming that has a chance to fix this is EQ next. Even if the game itself stinks it is pushing new concepts into the genre that should last into future games and since most of it is AI driven it isn't just tweaking what already exists like say GW2 did. It is actually changing the game at the design level.

I am more interested in Destiny and Division. They may not even be classified as MMOs.

 

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5252

10/02/13 1:02:57 PM#55
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Ender4

The only game I see coming that has a chance to fix this is EQ next. Even if the game itself stinks it is pushing new concepts into the genre that should last into future games and since most of it is AI driven it isn't just tweaking what already exists like say GW2 did. It is actually changing the game at the design level.

I am more interested in Destiny and Division. They may not even be classified as MMOs.

Indeed, so suggest a MMO you are looking forward to coming out.

I am not sure we are going to get new concepts from EQNext. Everything seems to be heading for easyMMOde with the exception of the modding tool. This is not EQ3, it is just a MMO set in the same world. If EQ3 was in development I am sure EQ fans would not even be focused on EQN. 

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19830

10/02/13 1:31:31 PM#56
Originally posted by Scot
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Ender4

The only game I see coming that has a chance to fix this is EQ next. Even if the game itself stinks it is pushing new concepts into the genre that should last into future games and since most of it is AI driven it isn't just tweaking what already exists like say GW2 did. It is actually changing the game at the design level.

I am more interested in Destiny and Division. They may not even be classified as MMOs.

Indeed, so suggest a MMO you are looking forward to coming out.

I am not sure we are going to get new concepts from EQNext. Everything seems to be heading for easyMMOde with the exception of the modding tool. This is not EQ3, it is just a MMO set in the same world. If EQ3 was in development I am sure EQ fans would not even be focused on EQN. 

 

Why so obsessed with EQN? If you don't like it, don't play it. It is going to be F2P anyway.

There are plenty of interesting online games coming out soon. In fact, i may try Hearthstone when the iOS version is out. That is probably more fun (to me) than the standard MMORPG.

 

  Mendel

Elite Member

Joined: 7/22/11
Posts: 636

10/02/13 2:49:03 PM#57
Originally posted by Ender4

The only game I see coming that has a chance to fix this is EQ next. Even if the game itself stinks it is pushing new concepts into the genre that should last into future games and since most of it is AI driven it isn't just tweaking what already exists like say GW2 did. It is actually changing the game at the design level.

I don't know if EQ:N is actually going to create as much change as we might think.  So far, EQ:N is apparently going to use some new technology (voxels and Storybook), but these might not change the actual game play all that much.  What if EQ:N still has massive progression grinds?  How is that fundamentally different from EQ1 or WoW?   Right now, there's still not enough known about EQ:N to effectively state how much EQ:N will actually deviate from the norm.

Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  Ender4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2096

10/02/13 3:08:23 PM#58

Well everything they have said certainly points to it. I watched GW2 in development and it was pretty clear that the events were just chained together and wouldn't be long term changes to the world. EQN is at least trying to use AI to make mob locations roam around the world and make more sense. They are using AI to try to make the mobs react in a smarter way instead of just attacking the top guy on the threat meter. These are fundamental changes to the genre that will eventually make an amazing leap in gameplay. I dunno if EQN will pull it off or some game in the future will but that is how I wanted MMORPG to be way back when they first started. I've always felt going into linear quest and spawn camping was a bad thing. Moving towards a more living world that changes over time is just such a natural step that I'm surprised it has taken this long for anyone to even attempt it.

Way back in the day Asheron's Call would actually spawn mob camps in a semi intelligent way and since then we've had loads and loads of games with just static spawns.

  Mors.Magne

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1428

10/03/13 9:01:50 AM#59
Originally posted by Ender4

Well everything they have said certainly points to it. I watched GW2 in development and it was pretty clear that the events were just chained together and wouldn't be long term changes to the world. EQN is at least trying to use AI to make mob locations roam around the world and make more sense. They are using AI to try to make the mobs react in a smarter way instead of just attacking the top guy on the threat meter. These are fundamental changes to the genre that will eventually make an amazing leap in gameplay. I dunno if EQN will pull it off or some game in the future will but that is how I wanted MMORPG to be way back when they first started. I've always felt going into linear quest and spawn camping was a bad thing. Moving towards a more living world that changes over time is just such a natural step that I'm surprised it has taken this long for anyone to even attempt it.

Way back in the day Asheron's Call would actually spawn mob camps in a semi intelligent way and since then we've had loads and loads of games with just static spawns.

No - advances in MMORPG technology don't advance fast enough to give players a 'gee whizz - look at this new technology / AI' feeling.

 

The advances happen so slow that you wouldn't notice it unless you had a complete break and came back in 10 years time.

 

At that point, Oculus Rift etc might be mainstream.

  Ender4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2096

10/03/13 9:20:08 AM#60

It happens faster than you think. Just look at the steps from WAR to GW2 and Rift to see how quickly games pick up on a good idea that is poorly implemented (PQs) and change/improve on them. We had a slew of non tab targeting games come out after AoC etc. If EQN drives spawn locations with AI some other game will pick up on it and improve it within a couple of years. The dev time on these games is shrinking and the number of them being released is growing so the technology should move faster.

Original MMORPG's had everything in one state. If I wanted to draw a picture of an orc fort I could draw it on one storyboard and it would look the same a year later. Newer games have made this 2 or 3 states with 'dynamic content'. GW2 you would have to draw the orc controlled fort, a skrit controlled fort and one when they are fighting. The true next gen MMO will need unlimited storyboards to draw this fort.

The player shows up and kills the orcs. Maybe they find another group of orcs and band together to take it back. Maybe some dwarves come and tear it down for supplies to increase the size of their mine and the fort is gone completely. Maybe a dragon burns it down. Maybe a necromancer roams in and turns the orcs into undead. Maybe a player stakes a claim to the area and builds it into their guild hall transforming it completely. Maybe it just rots over time as nobody is near it.

In order to achieve that you need to be able to let the AI build terrain on the fly, something EQN is doing with the voxel technology. You need the AI to make mobs work together, something they claim they are doing. You need to give players the ability to change terrain something again that EQN is doing.

I think EQN will give us a flawed version of all of this but once it is there someone else will pick up on it and improve it and the genre starts to get less stale for me at least. There is at least one other MMO using this as well so they have more than one source to build off of.

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 » Search