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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Blade's got nothing on me (Combat physics)

9 posts found
  Phaserlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/18/04
Posts: 707

Do you want to improve the world? I don't think it can be done. -Lao Tzu

 
OP  9/29/13 4:18:40 PM#1

Be sure to watch this in full screen just to get the effect:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9MVdm5ppHo

I just wanted to show you this video because I feel like a total badass in it.  The predictive motions, momentum, distances all add up to a truly coruscating experience.  Where else can you find a twitch combat MMO designed to be played over connections with up to 200 ms latency?  One where after a decade of continuous practice, it still feels like getting the hang of the combat curve?

Imagine a line extending from the front of the spacecraft I am engaging, now imagine a line extending from my perspective.  Staying off these lines is the primary goal of both pilots, especially at close range.  The flares that are being thrown have proximity fuzes, such that if they come within a certain radius of the target, they explode - sending the target ship spinning, forcing the pilot to recover.

This type of combat is truly epic... and other games are beginning to take notice.  In 2014, we will see a salvo of games being launched with this type of thing.  This is a positive development from my perspective - more competition in a given market is often a stimulus for greater innovation.  I really like VO's aesthetic, but the mechanics themselves have also stood the test of time and spawned several competitors.

You might argue that VO was inspired by some of the creators of these new games original hits (Elite and Star Citizen), and you would probably be right... however, I would counter that neither Elite nor Wing Commander (SC's predecessor) were designed toward becoming MMOs.  Let me posit that it was only once the efficacy of this type of combat was proven online that it became a more attractive market.  This may sound like a long shot, but then again... "what if?"

Furthermore, Elite: Dangerous looks to have more of a "planes in space" approach, whereas Star Citizen seems to be taking more of a Newtonian angle like Vendetta.  Eve: Valkyrie, I am not sure about.  I could go on and on about this, but I think I've procrastinated long enough for today in writing this post.

"To be what you are not, experience what you are not." -Saint John of the Cross
Authored 110 missions in Vendetta Online
Check it out on Steam

  Helleri

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 766

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”- Henry Ford

9/29/13 4:37:28 PM#2

...So what game are you playing there? I was unclear on that. And to me it looked like your ship got destroyed and not the enemy ship (at least that conclusion cinematic made it look that way).

 

I noticed you sat still a lot during the combat. That makes sense. Seems like it would be harder for either ship to hit if both were moving. where as sitting still on one ships part allows that ship to be facing it's target most of the time. I don't know what the floating reticle is for. but it seems like it remained throughout the fight a pretty good indicator of where to fire in order to effectively lead shots.

 


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  Morrok

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/08
Posts: 132

9/30/13 5:13:34 AM#3


Originally posted by Helleri
So what game are you playing there?


If you had watched the vid or read the description on YouTube, you'd had noticed that the game was Vendetta Online.



Originally posted by Phaserlight
I just wanted to show you this video because I feel like a total badass in it.


Well, and that's why i won't play such games, at least not much.
As clearly shown in that vid, targeting is a nightmare.
It's bad enough in a LAN-multiplayer game, but in a MMO it boils down to who has the best equipment and connection.

It looked like your opponent shot you up, i agree in that with Helleri.
At least you never got anywhere near the targbeting help when you snapped off a shot, so i wonder how you should have hit at all.

I have played twitch-based MMO's before, and either combat was... too... "ping-dependant" or the hitboxes were too large (to adjust for latency) or combat was simply slow (relatively spoken, like in BF2).
Most often it was a combination of the above which made the whole experience... urgh.

  tom_gore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

9/30/13 5:30:54 AM#4

Twitch combat is the future for MMOs. Tabtargeting hotkeyspa(s)m was created because of technical limitations, which mostly don't exist anymore.

It's also why FFXIV will die quickly and WoW will never recover. Once players get spoiled by action combat they won't touch traditional combat MMOs anymore.

 

  ChaaK

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/13
Posts: 39

9/30/13 5:41:14 AM#5
Originally posted by tom_gore

Twitch combat is the future for MMOs. Tabtargeting hotkeyspa(s)m was created because of technical limitations, which mostly don't exist anymore.

It's also why FFXIV will die quickly and WoW will never recover. Once players get spoiled by action combat they won't touch traditional combat MMOs anymore.

 Sadly there ain't much Action combat MMO out there. Even less with "occidental" design. GW2, and ... ?

  Morrok

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/08
Posts: 132

9/30/13 5:44:19 AM#6


Originally posted by tom_gore
Twitch combat is the future for MMOs. Tabtargeting hotkeyspa(s)m was created because of technical limitations, which mostly don't exist anymore.

It's also why FFXIV will die quickly and WoW will never recover. Once players get spoiled by action combat they won't touch traditional combat MMOs anymore.



LOL, yeah well...
Your opinion only of course.

If i were you, i'd be very careful with such "predictions".
After all, the condemned live longer!

  MumboJumbo

Elite Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3177

Veni, Vidi, Converti

9/30/13 5:53:57 AM#7
Originally posted by tom_gore

Twitch combat is the future for MMOs. Tabtargeting hotkeyspa(s)m was created because of technical limitations, which mostly don't exist anymore.

It's also why FFXIV will die quickly and WoW will never recover. Once players get spoiled by action combat they won't touch traditional combat MMOs anymore.

There is very interesting discussion to be had here. I'm torn between two minds on this.

On the one-hand... god tab-target is really insipid!  But on the other-hand, I just don't like the speed requirements to pull of moves being so demanding in reaction time and angling when I sit in front of a screen. It's one reason I find FPS sorta motion-sickness. I much prefer a slow-steady viewing angle and time to think about my next move, more like chess.

So maybe Tab-Target is too halfway house: Neither thoughtful nor adrenaline-fuelled? Actiony might be good for some things, vids of Chivalry do look very good from what I've seen. But for other things, perhaps combat that's slower and more tactical in mmorpg than what Tab-Target achieves (bunny hop, button-routine) is better for some mmorpgs?

One feature in SC that stands out: You can use your crew of alts or hire NPCs or invite a friend (s?) to man turrets on your ship. I think that's really potent feature if you have ships crewed by teams of players. Eg Artemis Bridge Simulator but with the above actiony-combat in space.

 

  tom_gore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

9/30/13 7:19:48 AM#8
Originally posted by ChaaK
Originally posted by tom_gore

Twitch combat is the future for MMOs. Tabtargeting hotkeyspa(s)m was created because of technical limitations, which mostly don't exist anymore.

It's also why FFXIV will die quickly and WoW will never recover. Once players get spoiled by action combat they won't touch traditional combat MMOs anymore.

 Sadly there ain't much Action combat MMO out there. Even less with "occidental" design. GW2, and ... ?

TERA is one of the most popular ones. There are more, and there are plenty more titles upcoming, two of the most interesting being TESO and EQNext (as I don't generally like Asian games). Wildstar seems to be some kind of hybrid between action and tab targeting, much like GW2 is.

Even these hybrid ones are 10x more interesting than the yawnfests such as WoW and FFXIV. Funny though, I liked WoW's combat when I still played it, but now I just can't go back, after being treated by GW2.

 

  tom_gore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

9/30/13 7:21:17 AM#9
Originally posted by Morrok

 


Originally posted by tom_gore
Twitch combat is the future for MMOs. Tabtargeting hotkeyspa(s)m was created because of technical limitations, which mostly don't exist anymore.

 

It's also why FFXIV will die quickly and WoW will never recover. Once players get spoiled by action combat they won't touch traditional combat MMOs anymore.




LOL, yeah well...
Your opinion only of course.

 

If i were you, i'd be very careful with such "predictions".
After all, the condemned live longer!

My opinion and prediction, yes. So far it seems like the trend is backing me up on upcoming games. I could be wrong, of course, but as I said, I base my prediction on the fact that the original tabtarget combat was conceived because of limitations in broadband connections back then.