Trending Games | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn | EverQuest | Star Wars: The Old Republic | Pirate101

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,901,418 Users Online:0
Games:752  Posts:6,271,978
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Do We Need An "MMO By Commitee"?

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 » Search
82 posts found
  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3296

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

 
OP  9/28/13 3:20:28 AM#41


Originally posted by SpottyGekko
Do We Need An "MMO By Commitee"?

No, we don't !

Anyone who's spent time on a variety of ad-hoc committees will tell you that.

Besides, pedantically speaking, you're not suggesting "design by committee" as much as "design by democratic vote". In your model, it sounds like the committee only gets to make design suggestions, the forum voting public makes the actual decisions. That is arguably an even worse way of trying to do it 



Good point, but "MMO By Popular Vote" just isn't as catchy :)

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5282

9/28/13 3:35:19 AM#42
Well gaming companies use focus groups, so in many ways they are made by a committee.
  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13585

9/28/13 12:59:19 PM#43
Originally posted by Scot
Well gaming companies use focus groups, so in many ways they are made by a committee.

There's an enormous difference between "we're going to ask the opinions of these people" and "we're going to do whatever a majority of these people say we should".

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5282

9/28/13 1:35:27 PM#44
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Scot
Well gaming companies use focus groups, so in many ways they are made by a committee.

There's an enormous difference between "we're going to ask the opinions of these people" and "we're going to do whatever a majority of these people say we should".

A difference, not sure it is an enormous one. If they use focus groups I would say the company is quite keen to follow what they say. If you are sure of your vision you won't use such a mechanism. I do realise that in the modern age this would indicate no one is sure of their vision in the entertainment industry. But as I believe that's the case, it proves the point.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20181

9/29/13 3:37:04 AM#45
Originally posted by Scot
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Scot
Well gaming companies use focus groups, so in many ways they are made by a committee.

There's an enormous difference between "we're going to ask the opinions of these people" and "we're going to do whatever a majority of these people say we should".

A difference, not sure it is an enormous one. If they use focus groups I would say the company is quite keen to follow what they say. If you are sure of your vision you won't use such a mechanism. I do realise that in the modern age this would indicate no one is sure of their vision in the entertainment industry. But as I believe that's the case, it proves the point.

Sure there is an enormous difference. Focus group is directed. The designer has to come up with the design idea before it can test it with a focus group.

Don't you think creating new ideas is very different from just tell people your preference of ones put in front of you?

 

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5282

9/29/13 4:12:40 AM#46
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Scot
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Scot
Well gaming companies use focus groups, so in many ways they are made by a committee.

There's an enormous difference between "we're going to ask the opinions of these people" and "we're going to do whatever a majority of these people say we should".

A difference, not sure it is an enormous one. If they use focus groups I would say the company is quite keen to follow what they say. If you are sure of your vision you won't use such a mechanism. I do realise that in the modern age this would indicate no one is sure of their vision in the entertainment industry. But as I believe that's the case, it proves the point.

Sure there is an enormous difference. Focus group is directed. The designer has to come up with the design idea before it can test it with a focus group.

Don't you think creating new ideas is very different from just tell people your preference of ones put in front of you?

 

Nope, it is certainly different in the way you describe but that's not what I was getting at. I think that designers and companies who create their own ideas and don't need focus groups to test every last aspect of their design are showing the courage of their convictions. If you filter everything you have created through a focus group it shows you lack that conviction.

Now I know that focus groups in the entertainment industry today are a standard requirement. But they did not used to be and I would suggest to you that they have steered entertainment to providing people with what they already want. Rather than what they might want if they gave it a go. Its a case of "I know what I like and I like what I know."

Are this years games, TV and films "better" than those of twenty years ago when focus groups were hardly used? Do less TV shows and potential gaming franchises get cancelled than back then? I doubt it.

Over reliance on focus groups creates an industry that just gives us more of the same. That's great for Coca-Cola, not good for entertainment.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20181

9/29/13 4:42:41 AM#47
Originally posted by Scot
 

Nope, it is certainly different in the way you describe but that's not what I was getting at. I think that designers and companies who create their own ideas and don't need focus groups to test every last aspect of their design are showing the courage of their convictions. If you filter everything you have created through a focus group it shows you lack that conviction.

 

I don't play games for designers' "conviction" nor "courage". I play them for fun.

I care less if a devs have conviction or not. I don't think there is any evidence that more conviction or "courage" from a devs will result in more fun to me.

 

  monkey_crusher

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/13
Posts: 41

9/29/13 9:33:03 AM#48
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Seeing some recent posts about certain MMOs and sometimes the general attitude of some players, it seems that an MMO should be made by the players, instead of developers with an idea and a direction.

Are some players expecting too much from a developer? Should developers listen to the players and their hundreds of polls?

To make it more fair, the polls should be simple 2 choice (either "A" or "B") questions, so a majority is reached without a huge division of the voters. A question like "What kind of PvP do you like best?" would be all over the place to reach a good majority vote. It would have to be asked in multiple steps to get an accurate count, I think.

How do you think an MMO like this would fair? Would an MMO by the popular numbers interest you?

What are your thoughts?

It would be interesting to get an idea of what the general populace (of this forum) are in favour of on a range of issues.

The questions would have to be very simple and clearly stated.

 

I would be an epic task.

 

Go!

  User Deleted
9/29/13 9:41:23 AM#49

I'm quite the opposite. I think game developers should stop listening to the community and build the damn game they originally envisioned. Some people will like it and some won't. You can't make everyone happy.

The trouble comes when they start listening to the "community", which only wants a game custom-made to their personal tastes.  Problem is, everyone's tastes are different. You try to be all things to everyone and you wind up appealing to no one.

 

  Amaranthar

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2171

9/29/13 10:10:26 AM#50
Originally posted by grimgryphon

I'm quite the opposite. I think game developers should stop listening to the community and build the damn game they originally envisioned. Some people will like it and some won't. You can't make everyone happy.

The trouble comes when they start listening to the "community", which only wants a game custom-made to their personal tastes.  Problem is, everyone's tastes are different. You try to be all things to everyone and you wind up appealing to no one.

 

I agree with that. In games, you need a consistent vision. Everything affects the game as a whole, and it all has to come together. And players very often want things that hurt the overall vision.

Developers should focus on what they are doing, on their vision, and make it the best they can according to that. While not all players are going to like any game, you stand a better chance of success with your game if you "make some people happy all of the time".

Once upon a time....

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5282

9/29/13 10:33:38 AM#51
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by grimgryphon

I'm quite the opposite. I think game developers should stop listening to the community and build the damn game they originally envisioned. Some people will like it and some won't. You can't make everyone happy.

The trouble comes when they start listening to the "community", which only wants a game custom-made to their personal tastes.  Problem is, everyone's tastes are different. You try to be all things to everyone and you wind up appealing to no one.

 

I agree with that. In games, you need a consistent vision. Everything affects the game as a whole, and it all has to come together. And players very often want things that hurt the overall vision.

Developers should focus on what they are doing, on their vision, and make it the best they can according to that. While not all players are going to like any game, you stand a better chance of success with your game if you "make some people happy all of the time".

This is exactly what I was trying to get at with my post about the use of focus groups. We all know how dodgy listening to official forums can be for a game. By using focus groups you bring in that blinkered rule of the majority when the game is still in the design stage.

 

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

9/29/13 11:36:00 AM#52

I have a million times more respect for a company that makes the game they want to make than the company that wants to pander to "everyone".

I have no interest in a hardcore spaceship MMO like EVE. None at all. But I respect what CCP has done probably more than any other MMO developer out there. They made the game they wanted, they grew it and as far as I know people that play it really enjoy it for what it is.

If more companies made games that do a few things very well instead of doing many things half-assed, the MMORPG genre would (at the very least) be far more interesting than it is right now.

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  User Deleted
9/29/13 11:42:21 AM#53
Originally posted by Scot
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by grimgryphon

I'm quite the opposite. I think game developers should stop listening to the community and build the damn game they originally envisioned. Some people will like it and some won't. You can't make everyone happy.

The trouble comes when they start listening to the "community", which only wants a game custom-made to their personal tastes.  Problem is, everyone's tastes are different. You try to be all things to everyone and you wind up appealing to no one.

 

I agree with that. In games, you need a consistent vision. Everything affects the game as a whole, and it all has to come together. And players very often want things that hurt the overall vision.

Developers should focus on what they are doing, on their vision, and make it the best they can according to that. While not all players are going to like any game, you stand a better chance of success with your game if you "make some people happy all of the time".

This is exactly what I was trying to get at with my post about the use of focus groups. We all know how dodgy listening to official forums can be for a game. By using focus groups you bring in that blinkered rule of the majority when the game is still in the design stage.

Not even then. The minute you ask consumers what they want in a product it suddenly becomes an expectation. If you don't have the talent or technology to support building it and you release without it, they will turn on you because in their minds, you broke a promise whether you made a promise or not.

Consumers don't know what they want until you give it to them. IMO, it's better for dev teams to look at the technology they do have and are capable of successfully using and then work at creating something new and interesting without all the noise.

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5620

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

9/29/13 11:48:51 AM#54
Originally posted by NaughtyP

I have a million times more respect for a company that makes the game they want to make than the company that wants to pander to "everyone".

I have no interest in a hardcore spaceship MMO like EVE. None at all. But I respect what CCP has done probably more than any other MMO developer out there. They made the game they wanted, they grew it and as far as I know people that play it really enjoy it for what it is.

If more companies made games that do a few things very well instead of doing many things half-assed, the MMORPG genre would (at the very least) be far more interesting than it is right now.

If you played Eve you'd know how much irony is in that statement.

No. All companies have made that same mistake, I'm afraid. Only, some more than others.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  TyranusPrime

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/13
Posts: 68

9/29/13 12:35:52 PM#55

 Speaking only for myself, as a would-be developer and consistent poll-poster here, I'd have to say no.. Developers have to listen to their potential player-base of course, but essentially have to have their own vision for their game.. The old adage, "too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the broth", is applicable here..

 Even going by all the polls I have posted, I always keep in mind that MMORPG.com is a minute cross-section of the gaming populace.. Too many variables to accurately give correct data.. Trying to build a game of off the most vocal posters here would be a disaster.. Not that the opinions are wrong whatsoever.. Every single one contains great information.. But for every player who wants one thing, there is another who hates that thing..

You have your fear, which might become reality; and you have Godzilla, which IS reality. - Ogata

  GuyClinch

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/28/13
Posts: 483

9/29/13 1:13:01 PM#56

Echoing what others have said..

Popular sentiment is not a useful way to design games. One thing you have to understand is that the human mind has individual parts which actually disagree. Your coherent psyche is an illusion. You should think of yourself like a small corporation. Your CEO is the head of corporation - and what you feel is 'you.' But the rest of your mind has various workers..

One of them is Bob in accounting. He doesn't really like ANY MMO - and when you play he feels its a 'waste of time' and is ALWAYS looking for the fastest and easiest way to win. Thus he always wants things like porting to dungeons, group finders, easy to get loot, etc.

But another part of your brain is like Jace in marketing. This guy drives a muscle car - he loves to party - he loves adrenalin sports. He doesn't look for the fastest easiest stuff and in fact he loves a good horror movie. But he is the guy that keeps you playing MMOs..

In short what you FEEL you want isn't really going to make you keep playing. Much like dating people don't actually know what they really want. They know what part of the brain wants..some of the time.

People ask for tons of 'quality of life' improvements but if they actually get them they tend to quit the game. Being a game designer is like being a magician - you throw all this PITA time wasting stuff in your game and if you do it right its seen as fun. If you do it wrong it seen as a 'grind' or "too hard."

Blizzard is a great case study in the folly that comes from listening to the crowds on the matter of design.. They were dominating the industry until they changed courses and started worrying about stuff like OMG not everyone sees Sunwell "that's not fair." Booh hoo..

 

 

 

 

  Kilrain

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/03
Posts: 500

9/29/13 1:20:05 PM#57
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Seeing some recent posts about certain MMOs and sometimes the general attitude of some players, it seems that an MMO should be made by the players, instead of developers with an idea and a direction.

Are some players expecting too much from a developer? Should developers listen to the players and their hundreds of polls?

To make it more fair, the polls should be simple 2 choice (either "A" or "B") questions, so a majority is reached without a huge division of the voters. A question like "What kind of PvP do you like best?" would be all over the place to reach a good majority vote. It would have to be asked in multiple steps to get an accurate count, I think.

How do you think an MMO like this would fair? Would an MMO by the popular numbers interest you?

What are your thoughts?

In my opinion the single best way to make an MMORPG is to have an individual or group of like minded individuals who come up with a set idea of what THEY want and without taking game changing ideas from outside sources. The MMO's that are created this way are typically niche and provide a higher % of what the players that like it, want. The games that attempt to create an all purpose MMO fail, or don't succeed the way they want and are always screwing things up for player x when trying to appease player y.

Bottom line: when making a game, make the game that YOU want. Don't try to make the game that everyone wants.

professional web programming and design.

  Kilrain

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/03
Posts: 500

9/29/13 1:23:48 PM#58
Originally posted by Quirhid

If you played Eve you'd know how much irony is in that statement.

No. All companies have made that same mistake, I'm afraid. Only, some more than others.

This is a perfect example of my post above. CCP created EVE in their vision and it was awesome. Then in recent times they've tried catering to what the crowd thought they wanted and it started going to crap. They've recently reversed their thinking and have been getting on track again but again, the bottom line is build what YOU want.

professional web programming and design.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20181

9/29/13 5:38:46 PM#59
Originally posted by GuyClinch

Blizzard is a great case study in the folly that comes from listening to the crowds on the matter of design.. They were dominating the industry until they changed courses and started worrying about stuff like OMG not everyone sees Sunwell "that's not fair." Booh hoo..

 


 

Folly? WOW grew tremendously after Sunwell. It did not decline until CATA. In fact, if it does not make dungeons & raiding more assessible, wow would not have grown to 12M.

 

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3751

RIP City of Heroes!

9/29/13 5:40:48 PM#60
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by GuyClinch

Blizzard is a great case study in the folly that comes from listening to the crowds on the matter of design.. They were dominating the industry until they changed courses and started worrying about stuff like OMG not everyone sees Sunwell "that's not fair." Booh hoo..

 


 

Folly? WOW grew tremendously after Sunwell. It did not decline until CATA. In fact, if it does not make dungeons & raiding more assessible, wow would not have grown to 12M.

 

Is that the direct cause and effect?  Making raiding more assessible?  Could there not be any other factors?

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 » Search