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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Why GTA5 is Better Than Most MMOs

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147 posts found
  SkylightFortress

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/13
Posts: 34

9/27/13 2:13:42 PM#61
Originally posted by adam_nox
Originally posted by Rewhymo
Originally posted by laserit
Originally posted by Foomerang

I feel sorry for you guys. Set aside your console hate and be a gamer first! This game is amazing.

I don't hate on consoles, I just hate controller's

 

Developer's

Why cant we play console games with a mouse and keyboard?

^^

This.

If consoles games were compatible with mouse and keyboard id be more enthusiastic about Consoles. I have GTA V on PS3 simply cause i love anything Rockstar. But PC gaming is the way to go. so i stick to it

 

 

this makes no sense.  gamepads make movement and the limitation of such feel a lot more natural and realistic.  You want to win by pointing and clicking really?  Come on.

That's your opinion, and you can keep it. My opinion is they both work just fine, they are just ment for different people/games. One could say all a controller is is "moving a joystick", how could that be fun. 

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8121

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

9/27/13 2:14:44 PM#62

Well said, add rpg statics and specialisations and 20 times the size...

 

who needs crafting and all the other stuff if the world is just plain sensational

 

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online

  Drakephire

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 349

9/27/13 2:16:39 PM#63
This is why I'm terribly afraid for Elder Scrolls Online. I fear that this game is going to completely fail to capture the ES feel for the very reasons you mention Bill.
  BMBender

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 422

9/27/13 2:17:24 PM#64
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by BillMurphy
And rest assured, that if our online worlds don't strive to become something more like the famed GTA's magnificent cities, we're already doomed.

And if they do--shoot for or even attempt to contend with 250 million dollar budgets--we're doomed even more quickly.

Setting an impossibly high bar with your usual gung-ho enthusiasm here, BM.

The bar should always be high, and reach ever higher. Limitations are just that, until they no longer limit us.

The funny little thing about goals is the have to be measureable, achievable, and realistic.  Over/under-estimating ones limitations/abilities tends to go a certain way in any meritocracy based organization.  And markets in their own way make judgments on both meritocracy and mediocrity.

 

EDIT I don't fault modern mmo makers for high bars they may or may not set; I fault them for repeatedly failing to reach the ones they do.

  Asheram

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1823

What happens when you get 5 stars do you get a cookie? ;)

9/27/13 2:21:38 PM#65
I bought the game last weekend because toys r us had a 20% off coupon good for everything in the store, and I have to say I am thoroughly enjoying it.
The gameworld feels more alive than pretty much every mmo I have played, and I don't need 600 players around me to enjoy it,16 is fine by me.
A to the commenter who is having trouble separating reality from fantasy I feel bad for you, its a game not a life simulator.
  Panther2103

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/09/08
Posts: 1948

9/27/13 2:22:22 PM#66
I think the article explains it well, I completely agree with everything that was said. Plus I really want to play GTA V, hopefully I'll get it soon.
  Rewhymo

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/12
Posts: 50

9/27/13 2:26:42 PM#67
Originally posted by SkylightFortress
Originally posted by adam_nox
Originally posted by Rewhymo
Originally posted by laserit
Originally posted by Foomerang

I feel sorry for you guys. Set aside your console hate and be a gamer first! This game is amazing.

I don't hate on consoles, I just hate controller's

 

Developer's

Why cant we play console games with a mouse and keyboard?

^^

This.

If consoles games were compatible with mouse and keyboard id be more enthusiastic about Consoles. I have GTA V on PS3 simply cause i love anything Rockstar. But PC gaming is the way to go. so i stick to it

 

 

this makes no sense.  gamepads make movement and the limitation of such feel a lot more natural and realistic.  You want to win by pointing and clicking really?  Come on.

That's your opinion, and you can keep it. My opinion is they both work just fine, they are just ment for different people/games. One could say all a controller is is "moving a joystick", how could that be fun. 

with a controller you are limited to your thumbs and index fingers. You could use your middle fingers as well for the R2 and L2 keys but i find they just get in the way. With pc i have the availability of all my fingers. My mouse has multiple keys all over it. With a controller you are more then likely limited to the controls setups that the game provides for you. A lot of times i find myself upset with the control presets that Console games come with as most of them dont fit my game style. With pc i can reconfigure the controls in any way i please. One thing that bothers me a lot is the fact that if i want to use my melee attack i have to take my thumb off of my camera stick. With pc my mouse is my look and even with a basic left click right click and center scroll and click mouse you dont need to take your finger off important keys.

If im playing on the console i prefer arcade style gaming as the controller is perfectly built for that. While on PC i prefer complex shooters such as Arma 2 and arma 3 as the mouse and keyboard are designed perfectly for shooters.

  Panther2103

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/09/08
Posts: 1948

9/27/13 2:30:00 PM#68
Oh and a lot of people complaining about controllers on the consoles, you can always get an XIM, which basically connects into the console and the controller at the same time and allows you to use your own keyboard and mouse to emulate the controller with customized key binds on the keyboard and things like that. From what I've seen it works really well, except when you use crap controllers that aren't developed by Microsoft or Sony. The only real downside is that you do have to still have a controller plugged in just so it can use that with the keyboard and mouse, but you don't have to touch the controller ever.
  Foomerang

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4294

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

9/27/13 2:34:32 PM#69


Originally posted by Rewhymo
with a controller you are limited to your thumbs and index fingers. You could use your middle fingers as well for the R2 and L2 keys but i find they just get in the way. With pc i have the availability of all my fingers. My mouse has multiple keys all over it. With a controller you are more then likely limited to the controls setups that the game provides for you. A lot of times i find myself upset with the control presets that Console games come with as most of them dont fit my game style. With pc i can reconfigure the controls in any way i please. One thing that bothers me a lot is the fact that if i want to use my melee attack i have to take my thumb off of my camera stick. With pc my mouse is my look and even with a basic left click right click and center scroll and click mouse you dont need to take your finger off important keys.

If im playing on the console i prefer arcade style gaming as the controller is perfectly built for that. While on PC i prefer complex shooters such as Arma 2 and arma 3 as the mouse and keyboard are designed perfectly for shooters.



it really just depends on the game. but more buttons doesn't always mean better control. reminds me of those old cars that had half a dozen levers to steer. there are games that greatly benefit from a kb/mouse and vice versa.

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4507

9/27/13 2:38:46 PM#70

Kinda surprised by this article. You'd think that the answer would not only be obvious, but that a staff member from MMORPG.com would have known this for years. This is not a new question, and it does not have a new answer.

Why do these phenominal single player games have better environments than MMOs?

Simple:

1 - They can conserve more of their budget towards things like environment building. Instead of things like security, netcode, server structure, services, etc. etc.

2 - Worlds change once you introduce 1000s of people into the environment. Why does GTA5 feel like more of a world? Because it doesn't have literally 1000 people all doing the exact same missions. Something you WOULD see if the game didn't have a 16-player cap.

3 - Because these games have a much lower player cap, they also get more leway in terms of things like size restrictions (making the world larger AND more dense). They can also do things like engineer how the 'other players' behave in the environment to grant the illusion of a living world. This is something MMOs have been trying to do, but often clashes with what 'actual' players end up doing.

Are there some improvements that can be taken from games as good as GTA5? Absolutely. However, many of these lessons come from games being single-player (or very limited multiplayer), which leads to another problem. This is why more recent MMOs have began to feel more like 'single-player' games. Because in an attempt to improve, they are trying to emulate more of these single player games.

It's a trade-off. You can't have that perfectly controlled / engineered environment, without making it somewhat limited to the player. You can't have extremely open, player-heavy MMOs without having more chaotic / zergy environments. Maybe there is more of a middle ground between the two. But it will be hard to do without turning the game into more of a lobby experience.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

9/27/13 2:39:22 PM#71
Originally posted by BMBender
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by BillMurphy
And rest assured, that if our online worlds don't strive to become something more like the famed GTA's magnificent cities, we're already doomed.

And if they do--shoot for or even attempt to contend with 250 million dollar budgets--we're doomed even more quickly.

Setting an impossibly high bar with your usual gung-ho enthusiasm here, BM.

The bar should always be high, and reach ever higher. Limitations are just that, until they no longer limit us.

The funny little thing about goals is the have to be measureable, achievable, and realistic.  Over/under-estimating ones limitations/abilities tends to go a certain way in any meritocracy based organization.  And markets in their own way make judgments on both meritocracy and mediocrity.

 

EDIT I don't fault modern mmo makers for high bars they may or may not set; I fault them for repeatedly failing to reach the ones they do.

Odd. SWTOR spends all of that money on sound, and ... (omgfail!!11one!!1)

GTA5 spends all of that money on sound, and ... (omgwin!!!11one!!1)

 

Gamers sure are odd and contradictory ducks sometiimes.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Rewhymo

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/12
Posts: 50

9/27/13 2:39:50 PM#72
That is true. like i said i find Arcade style games, i feel in my opinion, are better suited for Controllers. Complex FPS games like arma 2 and arma 3 just have too many keys for controllers. A couple of my friends have tried to macro as many keys into a controller for arma 2 and the best you can achieve is basic infantry stuff. So COD mentallity. And that was vanilla arma 2. They didnt even bother with Arma 2 with the ACE, ACEX, and ACRE mods. I prefer more complex games to arcade games. This is why i cant play the COD series as its to simple and theirs little to know thought process required to actually play.
  PAL-18

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 579

9/27/13 2:50:18 PM#73

The state of todays MMOs,its sad.

Anyone who knows how much fun it can be to play with other peeps,its not just the game ,its the connection with other players but when the game does not have that then we have multiplayer platform for single players,which is like planet without the inhabitants(imagine gta without NPCs) ,its not just GTA 5 which is better than most MMOs.

 

So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014

  Mari2k

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/07
Posts: 379

9/27/13 2:57:56 PM#74

GTA sucks....

I dont want open world, I want story and long cut scenes !!!!

MGS rocks !!!!

  Mivi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 24

9/27/13 3:11:24 PM#75

gta5 is not a mmorpg, and can't even be compared to mmorpgs.

from game design, to  the ingame goals, passing through the methods to get back the investment from the customers. is all different. good graphic and sounds improved AI are not enough.

  laserit

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1274

Confusius say: Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger

9/27/13 3:14:33 PM#76
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Rewhymo
with a controller you are limited to your thumbs and index fingers. You could use your middle fingers as well for the R2 and L2 keys but i find they just get in the way. With pc i have the availability of all my fingers. My mouse has multiple keys all over it. With a controller you are more then likely limited to the controls setups that the game provides for you. A lot of times i find myself upset with the control presets that Console games come with as most of them dont fit my game style. With pc i can reconfigure the controls in any way i please. One thing that bothers me a lot is the fact that if i want to use my melee attack i have to take my thumb off of my camera stick. With pc my mouse is my look and even with a basic left click right click and center scroll and click mouse you dont need to take your finger off important keys.

 

If im playing on the console i prefer arcade style gaming as the controller is perfectly built for that. While on PC i prefer complex shooters such as Arma 2 and arma 3 as the mouse and keyboard are designed perfectly for shooters.



it really just depends on the game. but more buttons doesn't always mean better control. reminds me of those old cars that had half a dozen levers to steer. there are games that greatly benefit from a kb/mouse and vice versa.

 

It's all personal preference

 

I don't claim superiority of one over the other, I want the choice to control the game with the peripheral of my preference.

 

When it comes down to it, it's what pisses me of the most about consoles. Their closed ended architecture and Xbox is by far the worst culprit.

 

A good game is a good game, period, no matter what it's being played with. A better game is one that lets you decide what you want to play with.  

Zenimax kicked my dog

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18347

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/27/13 3:18:16 PM#77
So basically MMO devs should be striving to deliver more realistic virtual worlds.

Seems like I might have heard that somewhere before.....

Oh yeah, I've been saying it like a broken record for about 7 years or so, but Narius would tell I'm wrong.

"The discrepancy between what we know is possible and what we currently have to choose from is beyond disappointing" - GeezerGamer
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Bunglermoose

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/03
Posts: 65

Procrastinators of the World Unite... you know, not right now... whenever you get around to it.

9/27/13 3:18:37 PM#78
I don't have console hate. I have "I can't afford a console *and* a PC" sadness.
  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2299

9/27/13 3:21:32 PM#79
The only game that's better than MMOs universally is Dwarf Fortress and that's if you can manage to get a feel for the UI in that game (plus some tilesets work wonders for interpreting the game better).

  Aeander

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 124

9/27/13 3:22:15 PM#80
Why does this need a column? It's not exactly breaking news that the MMO genre has been far behind the quality of other genres since its birth. The social aspect is the only saving grace of the MMORPG.
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