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Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes 

General Discussion  » Any other impressions from new players?

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43 posts found
  jjmuggs

Novice Member

Joined: 11/25/12
Posts: 9

1/26/13 9:24:02 PM#21
@benedikt  I totally agree with everything you said. I have often found myself staying up WAY past this old mans bedtime and paying for it the next day :)  But I remind myself when I dont have a huge stretch of time to devote that Im not in a race to the  "End Game"  To basically enjoy the journey...not race to the final destination.Ive also noticed most groups are pretty understanding about RL reality coming over game stuff. I also wanted to say that I do/have enjoyed at one time or another the Wow's,GW's,StarWars, Rifts etc etc  and dont want to put these games down. They do what they do and do it pretty good. For me tho, MMO always ment social. I like to meet new people and appreciate a great community, which is really one of VG's strongest assests.
  User Deleted
 
OP  1/28/13 1:02:11 AM#22

I am still having a great time in VG and signed up for the sub. I'm not in a race to level or anything. I love playing my disciple.  

 

I had one bug. I got this sick polearm as a quest reward for killing some insects in a dungeon. When I equipped it, it worked, but it was invisible. It was a let down. Kind of funny. But I got some nice fist weapons and I've moved on. 

 

I play about 2-4 times a week at GMT+9. I see players running around near hub areas and dungeons. It's also nice to get out where you can be alone and explore. I've made it up to lvl 15. Going to log on in a bit after I do some RL work.

 

And there is no pvp in VG. I'm a pvp-er but I'm fine without it here. I have Chivalry for pvp. Just about every mmorpg has disappointed me with regard to pvp. I've pvp-ed in every game from WoW to Darkfall. Chivalry does it well. I will look into ArcheAge and TESO and see if they can fare better than other games have in the past. I never really played DAOC, other than in trial, so I don't know how pvp was done there. As far as VG goes, it's fine for me without pvp.

 

 

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2730

I actually still like MMORPGs

1/28/13 1:20:56 AM#23

I've tried this game so many times, and every time its just so buggy still (running or swimming through the world still active as of yesterday). Also the world is BIG, but its very bland...empty. Lots to explore, if exploring nothing is what you're into.

Just hard to stomach, when I play GW2 and its not perfect, but I honestly forget i'm gaining experience because I get so lost exploring and finding new events that pop up. I go from one side of the map to the other without even noticing I traveled that far! And the combat is more engaging.

I want to like Vanguard, it does have some great systems and classes. But I think without a lot of extreme polish and bug fixing that ship has sailed for me. I made my donation though, I paid for a three month sub that I likely won't use much of.

  MurlockDance

Elite Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1181

2/07/13 10:27:29 AM#24
Originally posted by Nyrrho

QFT

The days of group dynamics are gone. Nowadays, every class is a solo class. Not to mention, the demographic of the average MMO player has changed drastically over recent years, which is why simpler, less intuitive games like WoW fare better than games with depth, such as Vanguard.  Although bugs and poor design execution didn't exactly help Vanguard.

What is sad is that Vanilla WoW up until Wrath had great group dynamics. The dungeons used to be tough and the original ones were huge, like BRD so it really did feel like exploring some dark, threatening place, though I did not like the fact that they were instanced. A tank really did need to know how to tank, a healer had to know how to not get aggro, and players had to figure out who to cc, etc.

WoW these days does not really need that, and that is what is tragic. There is no cooperation anymore between players in a group. The group content has been made so easy that any PuG except the absolute worst can do it. The main goal of dungeons is to rush to the end anymore. I am so tired of missing out content just to get some faction currency or something of that sort.

Vanguard is the last game to have come out that required knowledgeable group tactics in the dungeons though ToR is not that far off from requiring knowledge in FPs. I miss those, so I might give this game a try again.

Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

  ReeseFlamelocks

Novice Member

Joined: 2/21/10
Posts: 42

4/29/13 3:02:12 AM#25

I've played around with the game a little bit. The execution of combat skills feel very loose. This bothers me a little bit, but not an enormous amount. There is also a certain rigidity to character movement, both in and out of combat. It feels dated, but again, I don't think it's a deal breaker for me.

 

So far the combat hasn't been very challenging. I will have to see at higher levels.

 

I can feel the open-endness of the world, and it's nice, but after being "MMO-trained" by hand-holding themepark games I'm a bit wary.

 

Overall, the game hasn't really given me anything to invest in yet. I know I can craft, but the question so far is why would I? I know I can "diplomasize" (fun with words!), but the game hasn't given me a reason to yet. Do I just do it because it is there? I understand the premise of an open world and I am sure many people do just do it because it is there. I probably just need to play longer and see the benefits of crafting and diplomacy myself, because so far I am not really seeing it.

 

Edit: Oh yeah, by the way, how the hell do I cancel "stalk"? lol

 

 

Played: UO, DAoC, Shadowbane, DDO, LOTRO, Aion, Rift, TERA
Sampled: WoW, AoC, GW2, Vanguard, FF XIV, Neverwinter
Playing: ESO

  Adamantine

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3298

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

4/30/13 3:07:19 AM#26

Well ... I always hated card games and avoided it as long as possible, but yes, in Vanguard you have to diplo if you want to be a top player.

Diplomacy is basically:

- Getting the right cards

- Getting the right gear

- Finding the right spots and right parleys for farming faction

In the end, after some bumps and tough spots, it feels a lot like harvesting. Its a bit harder to start and its more complexity, but once you have all the stuff you need, its just a question of leveling it up and its not even that slower to level up than harvesting.

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4033

4/30/13 3:10:12 AM#27

Yeah i started playing again about a month ago and i must admit it really is a good game.. with the settings maxed out the graphics are just as good as some so called modern f2p mmos.

 

If you like openworld themepark games then give this a go.

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Dirkin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 78

4/30/13 3:32:44 PM#28

Originally posted by ReeseFlamelocks

Edit: Oh yeah, by the way, how the hell do I cancel "stalk"? lol

Originally posted by Adamantine

Well ... I always hated card games and avoided it as long as possible, but yes, in Vanguard you have to diplo if you want to be a top player.

Diplomacy is basically:

- Getting the right cards

- Getting the right gear

- Finding the right spots and right parleys for farming faction

In the end, after some bumps and tough spots, it feels a lot like harvesting. Its a bit harder to start and its more complexity, but once you have all the stuff you need, its just a question of leveling it up and its not even that slower to level up than harvesting.

You can cancel Stalk by switching to your other stance. I know you got Stalk as a separate hotkey at the beginning, but you can always just switch to it by clicking on it in your stances window, you don't have to use the hotkey. Your other stance is Devious Foe if I as remembering correctly, just click on that to cancel your stalking. You can switch back and forth pretty much at will when out of combat. In combat the use of stalking is limited somewhat by design.

 

For diplo (and crafting), you technically do not have to do either. If you are the strictly adventuring type, you can just focus on that. You will miss out on some conveniences and other things, but they are not required. The biggest reason people will tell you that diplomacy is required is because being a high level diplomat will greatly increase the speed at which you are able to gain faction in some of the more important end-game content where faction plays a major role.

  Adamantine

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3298

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

5/03/13 9:27:25 AM#29

> The biggest reason people will tell you that diplomacy is required is because being a high level diplomat will greatly increase the speed at which you are able to gain faction in some of the more important end-game content where faction plays a major role.

 

Exactly.

Its faster to level diplomacy instead and do the same with diplomacy.

Also, you dont need anyone else for it, you can "solo" it.

  Dzone

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/12
Posts: 298

6/06/13 7:18:23 PM#30

I really like the old school feel to this game, but i dont know if i can handly all the deserted areas. I'm up to lvl 13 paliden now, and this game is really chalanging solo. I've been in a few groups and they were really fun.

 

My problem is the way they have the mobs just standing in one spot and not moving. I'm on this quest called "Orc assault" where thers a bunch of orcs on a beach. The quest says its solo, and i'm supposed to kill orcs and search for treasures. Well i get to the beach and there are alot of orcs just standing in one place in groups of 2 and 3. I can only solo one at a time, they take off like 70% of my hp. I tried to pull one at a time, but the way there stationary that's not posible and i keep getting slaughterd.

 

Why did they put all this mobs stationary like that? How are we supposed to solo this quest's that are flaged as "Solable".

 

I'm lvl 13 and alrdy seem a few places like this, anyone have an suggestions on how to do this solo quests? I like the challange this game has, but the stationary mobs is kinda over the top.

  kyssari

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 158

"Reality is but a figment of our collective imaginations." -N.E.S.

6/06/13 7:26:50 PM#31

Just a tip on the graphics try messing with the contrast slider and some other options and even pretty small adjustments to em can make a huge difference in how good the graphics look.

 

That being said even without tweaking the graphics I absolutely love Vanguard. I am an oldschool EQ vet, who favors Classic, Kunark, and Velious above all, so Vanguard was perfect for me when I finally found and tried it. Anyone who enjoyed EQ back in the day should definitely give Vanguard a go and I guarantee they will be hooked. I have so missed the open noninstanced, nonlinear, dungeons and having soooo many of em scattered throughout the world, among other things.

 

  JemAs666

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/09
Posts: 102

6/06/13 7:28:38 PM#32
The VG Disciple class has been the most enjoyable time I have ever had playing a class in any MMO.  I still have my original level 50 APW geared disciple, but I haven't played for quite some time now.  Don't get me wrong the game had issues, but the Disciple Class and Diplomacy were some great features it brought to the table.
  MMOrty

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/13
Posts: 13

7/30/13 12:38:15 PM#33
Originally posted by Benedikt

well i would like to add some a bit different view

 

don't get me wrong: i am also a fan of vanguard - that and ac2 are currently my favorite mmorpgs. BUT: everyone is "crying" here how all the newer mmorpgs are made easy, soloable and for casuals. well nothing strange about that: not only the newer generation of gamers is used to that, but also we, who started with muds and first generation of mmorpgs, are different now.
 

i see it on myself - i would gladly group a lot of time .... but when i do, its usually just for 1 dungeon run or 1 or 2 quests. why? reason is simple - real life. times when i could spend whole day playing online games like in college are gone, now with 8 hr of work a day, 2hrs on the way to and from work and other things around, i just dont have time to spend my time running around with group, not to mention waiting for it to get together etc. its easier to just do things solo when i can and this way i can finish playing any time i want w/o feeling bad for leaviing the group in the middle of dungeon run.

 

edit: btw, i had a friend in college who once came into computer lab monday morning and left friday evening :) (seriously)

I can see what you mean because I am a father of a handful of kids, and I work during the day, but I still love grouping.  I would love for someone to make a game that really has no solo-able classes,  and has a good LFG function.

I realize though that this would mean more instanced grouping, and I am not sure that will be so great.  I have tried out Neverwinter Online, and they have an instanced group function which works well.

Either way, I know what I want will be harder to achieve, and may not even be possible.  Heavy grouping game without so much instancing ... 

A man can dream.

MMOrty
MMOrty.com

  railshot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/04
Posts: 12

9/27/13 4:09:51 AM#34

I played Vanguard shortly after launch and then moved on to other games. Recently I jumped on a FF 14 ARR wagon and just hated it. Tried TERA and hated it for the same reasons:

  1. Cartoonish art style. Some think it’s a matter of taste, but I find immersion much more difficult with the cutesy graphics.
  2. Claustrophobic zones, usually with just a couple of entry/exit points
  3. Classes that are mostly cosmetically different from each other
  4. Primitive play style.  No challenge to gameplay and no variety to the tactics. In FF the mage can literally get through most of the content with just 2 spells.

And then I realized that what I really want is Vanguard. So I re-subbed :). Yes, the graphics are somewhat dated. I don’t think they finished the animations by the time of their pressured launch because those looked wooden even by 2007 standards. But the world still looks beautiful both from the streets of New Targonor or from the back of a flying mount. And I can fly, ride, sail in any direction I want. The terrain may limit non-flying modes of transport, but there are no invisible walls.

My Necromancer has enough spells and abilities to fill up four full hotbars. And they are not there for variety’s sake. I end up using most of them in any given dungeon crawl or a difficult encounter. Battles are challenging but the wealth of abilities and their interactions with each other allow me to come up with new tactics or refinements of the old ones. Mastering a class is an exciting and a never ending process.

The classes are different enough that I really look forward training and learning other ones, once I finish my Necro. So replay value for me is great.

Crafting is very deep. At the same time maxing out a crafting skill can be very grindy. I maxed out a tailor, but I don’t think I’ll be training another crafter. I have not touched diplomacy, so I can’t comment on that. It is optional as others mentioned.

There are some things that I don’t like.

I think there is too much focus on group play. It’s entirely possible to reach endgame solo, and there is a ton of fun solo content, but the good gear is mostly available through group content. I understand the reasoning, but it does not work very well for people with RL schedules and for low server population. I would prefer to be able to solo get same gear but maybe with a lot more effort/solo time. That being said, I may not be able to always find the group I want, but usually I can find a group for some other content. And group dungeon crawls are a lot of fun.

SoE when they took over from Sigil fixed the bugs, but otherwise put the game on life support. There have been some dungeons released since launch, but I suspect SOE just completed the work that Sigil started. I would not expect any major additions to the game.

There is a lot of content, more than may other MMOs, but if you look closely you realize that it’s maybe a third of what was originally intended. You can admire the large cities, but when you walk inside the houses, you realize that majority of them are empty. No NPCs, and usually no furniture. It’s a shame, because adding that kind of content – NPCs, minor quest lines, and some furniture would really add life to the world. I understand that SOE wanted to get their money’s worth with minimum risk/investment, but I do think that they made a serious misstep. Had they been willing to provide the same financial backing to Vanguard that they gave to EQ2, they would have gotten a great return on their investment.

But even with those caveats, there are only a couple of games that have a feature set and freedom comparable to Vanguard. And all of them are ancient by today’s gaming standards. So I would highly recommend it to anyone who is sick of theme parks.

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 1951

9/27/13 4:48:35 AM#35
Originally posted by railshot

And I can fly, ride, sail in any direction I want. The terrain may limit non-flying modes of transport, but there are no invisible walls.

My Necromancer has enough spells and abilities to fill up four full hotbars. And they are not there for variety’s sake.

I admit these two are tempting enough to urge me going back to my halfling :)  (especially in the light of the arriving class revamp (a.k.a. skill number reducing) in LotRO...)

I loved Diplomacy. My main problem was (beside the bugs) what you mentioned as well, Vanguard is built around group content, which is good - until you have a group. If you have a ghost town, grouping can be tough. Last time when I played (about a year ago, after the f2p switch) I saw maybe 2 players in the starter area, which is usually cramped with players after a game is going free...

  Dirkin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 78

9/27/13 9:14:53 AM#36

To be fair, there are still four different starting areas. :)

 

Also, the team and the community may be small but content is still on the way. They have a major performance patch coming soon (something about completely revamping how the game accesses database/server information) which should help, and also Cave of Wonders, which is a high level raid dungeon. The past year has seen multiple content releases for lower levels too.

 

So yeah, small but far from dead. :)

  Jaedor

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 785

9/27/13 9:26:16 AM#37

I tried Vanguard a while back because I wanted to check out the housing and crafting features. But at the time, it turned out that those things were gated behind a sub and I didn't want to invest anything in a trial run.

I got a character to level 10 or so and kind of wondered about the whole sandbox thing. It definitely felt more themepark with quests and hubs, and though I was free to explore, mobs outside my immediate area were quite a lot higher and aggroed easily.

I did try some crafting and found it reasonably complex but once I took a closer look at the payment models I stopped playing. I understand that a while later, SOE removed the pay gates for access to housing so I might give it a shot one of these days.

Glad to hear you are enjoying your time, OP.

  wesjr

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/04
Posts: 353

9/27/13 9:33:13 AM#38
Originally posted by koboldfodder

It's an old game, and as such it will be top-level heavy with whatever number of players are playing.  It's more like EQ, but without any of the lore.

 

Vanguard was a failed game in every sense of the word.  When it was released it just didn't work.  It past the point of no return and people left.  SOE bought it and fixed a lot of the glaring technical issues it had and it turned into a decent game.

 

But I always got the sense that the lore of the game was more smoke and mirrors.  In EQ, they created everything and then built the world around that lore.  It always felt backwards with Vanguard.  For instance, when they introduced racial mounts, it felt like they just picked whatever model fit a specific race.  I think Gnomes had a lobster mount, or something like that...lol.  Then they went and created lore as to why a Gnome would have a lobster mount and it never really felt convincing.

 

There was also a ton of empty areas in the game that were simply unfinished.  Yes, the game world is pretty big but an unfinished game world is an unfinished game.  The Dark Elf area had a city area inside a mountain that looked pretty cool, but nothing was ever done with it.  Maybe they changed it since.

 

Not a lot of people play this game, and when a lot of the content is group orientated (like original EQ) and the population is low...well, you will not be doing certain dungeons.

 

One major problem I had with the game was with the loading mechanics.  Things would pop into view at a very short distance.  Not sure if they ever fixed this, or even if they can because the engine is so old.

 

I too had a disciple.  That is the class to play as it is a great solo class AND a great group class.  One thing where Vanguard shines above just about every MMO is the classes, especially the Healer classes.  They are stand outs.  Some of the best designed classes in any MMO are the Disciple, Cleric and the Bloodmage.

 

Also, you can just be a crafter or a diplomat and not do any fighting at all.  That was a breath of fresh air.

 

If you have a solid group of people, this is a decent game to play.  Problem is that there are better games if you have that same group of players.  Original EQ is still better, the newer zones are much better looking that the older ones.  EQ2 still has a massive amount of content, solo ro gorup.  LOTRO has great small group content and stellar classes.

 

Time has passed Vanguard by.

I just do not agree 100% with that, I was able to max a toon before my 30 days was up when it released, I had no issues with the game, bugs etc.

  Shadanwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1865

9/27/13 11:51:11 AM#39
The game is ftp.I think you get most everything including housing.The crafting is the best I have experienced.
  MMOman101

Novice Member

Joined: 2/05/08
Posts: 1192

9/27/13 1:42:43 PM#40
Originally posted by Dzone

I really like the old school feel to this game, but i dont know if i can handly all the deserted areas. I'm up to lvl 13 paliden now, and this game is really chalanging solo. I've been in a few groups and they were really fun.

 

My problem is the way they have the mobs just standing in one spot and not moving. I'm on this quest called "Orc assault" where thers a bunch of orcs on a beach. The quest says its solo, and i'm supposed to kill orcs and search for treasures. Well i get to the beach and there are alot of orcs just standing in one place in groups of 2 and 3. I can only solo one at a time, they take off like 70% of my hp. I tried to pull one at a time, but the way there stationary that's not posible and i keep getting slaughterd.

 

Why did they put all this mobs stationary like that? How are we supposed to solo this quest's that are flaged as "Solable".

 

I'm lvl 13 and alrdy seem a few places like this, anyone have an suggestions on how to do this solo quests? I like the challange this game has, but the stationary mobs is kinda over the top.

The thing I noticed about Vanguard is that Mobs are not all equal.  Some mobs are easier to kill by melee and some by casters.  IF you have a hard time with one type of mob it might be best to skip that group of quests and do something different. 

I have played both casters and Melee.  I have noticed that some Mobs that were really hard with one were very easy with the other. 

Also Vanguard is a game where class solo balance is not equal and some classes have a very hard time fighting Mobs over level.  You might have to fight Mobs at your level or lower.  Don't just expect to be able to pull Mobs of higher level and think you can win.  It is not the way the game works.

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