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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Elder Scrolls Online: Bringing In The Non-MMO Gamer

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109 posts found

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2444

9/24/13 1:38:12 PM#21
Only a truly ignorant person would think that Skyrim is the sole reason for the Elder Scrolls popularity and concern towards the upcoming MMO.  What an absolute joke.
And then only one of the most ignorant and moronic person(s) could believe that the only game to ever successfully get players to pay $15 a month for a subscription.  I mean, that isn't even debatable.  It's a flat out lie.  How does MMORPG post this kind of crap?  Oh yeah, it's MMORPG.

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2444

9/24/13 1:46:21 PM#22

Very bad article.


First claiming Skyrim as the sole reason for the TESO hype or concern.

Second, claiming FFXI is the only game to successful charge $15 a month for a sub?  What?

And finally, saying the manual blocking system makes TESO a shooter.  LOL!


Bill Murphy, I'll assume you are tripping on acid or something, because this is absolutely pathetic.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 3040

9/24/13 2:37:28 PM#23
Originally posted by DAS1337

Second, claiming FFXI is the only game to successful charge $15 a month for a sub?  What?

On Consoles! Read man... READ.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 1285

9/24/13 2:43:34 PM#24
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Wiha
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Kyleran

I'm an MMORPG gamer first, have never really cared for the Elder scroll series and Skyrim was no exception.

So I remain skeptical of the title's appeal to me, but I'll be keeping an eye on it, mostly because of its DAOC like RVR model more than anything related to the IP or PVE gameplay.


They've been working to gut anything DAoC related over the years. Even the RvR is a joke now. Poor Matt, tried so hard but publishers got him.

Good. I'm not an ES fan but I don't want this game turned into Daoc clone either.

You don't want this game to be a revival of one of the best designed MMORPGs to date?


...Care to say why or is this just a drive by troll attempt?

I expect this to be an ES game, an ES MMO to be more precise, not a Daoc clone. My problem is that imo those former Daoc devs just cannot think outside of Daoc box. And yes, I don't want Daoc to be revived in ESO, let them make Daoc 2 or whatever. Honestly, accusing me of trolling only because I expect ESO to be an ES game is just trying to bait me.


Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/08
Posts: 1310

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

9/24/13 2:45:00 PM#25

I'll be there at launch (on PC) but will stay ONLY if the game is much much more like Skyrim then like WoW. 



Let's party like it is 1863!


Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 808

9/24/13 2:53:43 PM#26

"So you have 10 mln people, with over 5 mln Xbox gamers, waiting and hoping for a new adventure in the Elder Scrolls world."


Yes ES VI.


So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar:**


Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 9082

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

9/24/13 2:57:45 PM#27

I think console versions are not a good thing.... they keep developers from going for the full potential of graphics and controllers...


Consoles have to many limitations compared to an open system like a PC.


Advocating it a good thing shows that the writer clearly does not understand, the restrictions and limitations that keep todays games back from their full potential.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)


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Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

9/24/13 3:00:20 PM#28

Originally posted by Gruug
I'll be there at launch (on PC) but will stay ONLY if the game is much much more like Skyrim then like WoW. 



Given that Elder Scrolls games sell in the ten to twenty million copy range and MMORPGs aside from WoW sell in the one to two million copy range, I'm betting that the game being like Skyrim or other ES games is much more important than the game being like WoW or any other MMORPG.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.


Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6980

9/24/13 3:08:55 PM#29

Bill, it's not just the console players, but also their PC players they need to sell the sub to. I don't see that as an easy sell.  Some people might not think about it, but I would say most gamers look at the cost of a game and the planned DLC.  This is like paying for DLC, but you don't get something every time you buy and in fact, the bigger DLC packs (box fees) are in addition to that sub fee.

GW2 is keeping a blazingly fast release schedule for now. Trion did it for a little over a year (and that could have mostly been produced before or around launch and released later), and then burnt out hard. How is ESO going to compete on this level? Honestly, I have zero confidence in them pulling this off until I see it happen.  It's just too hard and too rare.  I'm still not confident ANet can keep it up indefinitely.

No one has as many friends as a man with many cheeses!


Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 448

9/24/13 3:55:02 PM#30
To capture the non-MMO players who were hooked on Skyrim, they're going to have to deliver on the Elder Scrolls experience. If the devs have successfully translated exploration, NPC interaction, crafting, enchanting, quests, character customization, and character advancement to the MMO world, then it will be successful in its goal to reach non-MMO players. Oh, and one more thing. They've got to make it accessible to casual play.  Skyrim is a game that one can get into quickly...sit down for an hour and run a dungeon. Barriers to access will only turn off non-MMO players. 


Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2163

Nothing is til it is and even then you never know until its been.

9/24/13 4:40:54 PM#31

Easy, make a great game and it will attract non mmoers. WOW didnt do anything that hadn't or hasn't been done before or since to get it's masses other than making the very first (mostly) clean launching MMO that was really fun, on many levels, to many different people.


Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 563

9/24/13 4:47:25 PM#32
Originally posted by lizardbones

Originally posted by Gruug
I'll be there at launch (on PC) but will stay ONLY if the game is much much more like Skyrim then like WoW. 



Given that Elder Scrolls games sell in the ten to twenty million copy range and MMORPGs aside from WoW sell in the one to two million copy range, I'm betting that the game being like Skyrim or other ES games is much more important than the game being like WoW or any other MMORPG.


Yea EA/BW was betting on that with KOTR 3 I mean SWTOR


Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/12
Posts: 1

9/24/13 5:16:55 PM#33

This game is just another one with restricted PVP. This game could have been AMAZING. All they had to do was take the idea of elder scrolls openness and make it fully open.

I want to be able to worry about being ganked on the open road. Not be super friendly happy time except in the PVP zone. That's stupid as fuck and is nothing like the open Elder Scrolls we all know and love.

Hand holding and restrictions are the way forward and it killed this game for me.


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Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6701

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

9/24/13 6:13:24 PM#34
The non mmo gamer does not like subscription fees. I can't see how a non mmo player would subscribe to a mmo.

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Joined: 6/16/04
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9/24/13 6:25:32 PM#35

Bill's column was so - out there - I had to write an article about it.   Read it here.

Dear Bill Murphy - A rebuttal to his column: Bringing In The Non-MMO Gamer



Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/03
Posts: 345

9/24/13 6:31:25 PM#36
Originally posted by Voqar

If this game ends up having role-based grouping there could be hope for it to not suck.  We'll see I guess.  I missed a chance to see for myself wasting time playing FFXIV, which is a mediocre at best overall game.


I would also argue that "Bringing In The Non-MMO Gamer" isn't really all that great for MMORPGs - it's what companies have been doing for years with all of the post WoW "failures" and IMO, the quality of MMORPGs in terms of overall game experience and definitely the long term value in playing MMORPGs has diminished greatly.  Along with that, the quality of MMORPG player has declined dramatically.


Good MMORPGs aren't casual games, nor easy games, and the trend to try to dumb them down and make them accessible has pretty much ripped the heart and soul out of the genre.  It's like, you can't really alter chess - it is what it is - and some people just can't handle it - you can't really change it or it becomes more like checkers, which isn't really the same.

I agree with all but the third paragraph. I realize there are hardcore, or very talented players, who do want games to be more difficult. But there are we casual players who enjoy a good MMO too. I don't enjoy the needed trio for groups because new gamers often don't know how to play those roles. If MMOs had continued to need the holy trinity, there wouldn't be such a gap.



Advanced Member

Joined: 11/06/08
Posts: 519

9/24/13 7:39:34 PM#37
Originally posted by BMBender
Originally posted by lizardbones

Originally posted by Gruug
I'll be there at launch (on PC) but will stay ONLY if the game is much much more like Skyrim then like WoW. 



Given that Elder Scrolls games sell in the ten to twenty million copy range and MMORPGs aside from WoW sell in the one to two million copy range, I'm betting that the game being like Skyrim or other ES games is much more important than the game being like WoW or any other MMORPG.


Yea EA/BW was betting on that with KOTR 3 I mean SWTOR

To be fair though SWTOR had a record setting launch.  Where they failed was post launch.  They failed to follow through and get fixes out fast enough and they failed to make players feel like they were getting value for their 15 a month.


I have no doubt that EWO will do well as far as the launch is concerned.  Whether or not they can keep those players will depend largely on how well they recreate the ES experience and how well they follow through their release with enough updates and new content to make the player feel as if it is worth their $15 a month.  For people used to ES that is like new major DLC every month price wise so people who aren't use to MMORPGs and are fans of the ES series, that will be their expectation as far as content goes.  


As far as PvP goes, it is niche.  If ESO wanted to go the niche PvP route then they should have done it in a niche game with a realistic budget for that segment.  It looks like they have pretty big expectations for ESO and the budget is likely pretty damn big too, that means it needs to sell to the masses.  And that means that if they start ditching core ES features expected by fans of the series for PvP niche functionality it is going to hurt their bottom line.


Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/04
Posts: 144

9/24/13 8:47:59 PM#38

I think it will pull in a fair amount of subs for the first three months at least on PC but I don't know about Consoles. I have a feeling that market will give a steady trickle of free month players for the first year but nothing huge like PC crowds from mmos. those guys are not going to stick around for a self renewing sub. Neither are the casual PC crowd who have a bunch of ftp stuff to plink away at after the free month expires.

It will also take a while to train up a new generation of gamers on the daoc inspired PvP frontier system. A large part of the cooperative pve mmo  crowd is going to be taken aback by the large fully enabled center of the map with no way of opting out of pvp.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/21/13
Posts: 847

9/24/13 8:52:14 PM#39
Originally posted by Teala

Bill's column was so - out there - I had to write an article about it.   Read it here.

Dear Bill Murphy - A rebuttal to his column: Bringing In The Non-MMO Gamer


You're critcizing Bill when your article is the definition of Bias.

  • I agree that IP popularity helps in that it is only a "head-start" on the track, and whether or not the lead is maintained is up to how good the runner is.
  • You cannot make the claim that console support is automatically a downside if Skyrim and Oblivion were built for consoles and succeeded greatly.
  • There is mixed opinion on faction lock- some like it, some don't. The reasons given by Paul Sage on the Q&A on this very site made sense to me Maybe it will in fact create an interesting dynamic between factions and encourage factional pride. Also, if you're committed to your character's progression, you don't have to create an alt to see everything. It's called 50+ and 50++ content, and it allows exploration of  the remaining faction territories once you can hit level cap.
  • ESO is not another SWTOR. SWTOR failed largely because of lack of endgame content. As far as I've seen, ESO has taken many steps to avoid this.
  • Adopting a DAoC model of PvP could turn out really well for them. I encourage you to check these out as to why:
  • Lastly you Don't have a crystal ball as you suggest. You don't know how things will play out. And on top of that your horrendous article wishes failure upon ESO, before it's even released. As a result, I cannot see it as anything other than pure speculation and opinion.


Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
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9/24/13 9:05:18 PM#40

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