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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The Holy Trinity - The good and the bad

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90 posts found
  PAL-18

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 577

9/24/13 11:51:03 AM#41
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by rodingo

Thats pure comedy gold 10/10.

Not going to teach you how to play Dungeons and Dragons since you never played it.

But there is simple things like constitution which gives more hp,hp is good for tank its also good against paralyzation etc..

also fighter with 14+ dex can parry and dodge ,not going to explain this either what does it mean.

I really dont know which movies or books you know where peeps presses taunt button,like there is somekind of taunt button.

I assume you understand what it means to make someone angry or calm,you can call it taunting/detaunting from now on .

Rogues great dmg dealers,ok,maybe with dagger +500.

I wonder what DnD you have played since I found rodingo's post to be fairly accurate. There is no tank in the similar sense there is one in MMORPGs. It is recommended to have a front line, but no need for a "tank" in particular. You can make one, but since the Taunt skill is rather weak, and depending on the GM, it is useful only in a very specialized situation.

Generally you can block enemies by moving in their way but if you don't have Combat Reflexes feat and a high Dexterity, you only get one Attack of Opportunity per enemy. That is if your enemies don't have Mobility, Spring Attack or one doesn't simply grapple you when others move past you freely. And you can't always fight in a 1-square-wide corridor.

It doesn't matter if you build your defense from armor or other AC bonuses, HP or other means, the fact remains, D&D had no tank in the similar sense that MMORPGs have it. Then again, your DM might have run a much different game than I did. Perhaps your D&D combat encounters did resemble trinity combat. Mine didn't.

Also, a Rogue is a utility/burst damage character although highly situational. A high level Rogue is a very powerful thing with high damage if you use it right.

Sure you can play with taunt skill if you want to but i prefer to kicking someone in the balls or cut their legs and also i would like to tell my team to stay back ,also charisma ,int or wis or characters race can be a deciding factor who is getting attacked,and my party might know it.sure you can play with your taunt button,theres plenty of things that i can use to hold aggro also theres hold persons ,monsters (cc) which can help me even further.

And there is a tank in this game,its not needed if you play against -500 level monster i think.

 

 

So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014

  Burdoc101

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/29/12
Posts: 259

9/24/13 11:58:22 AM#42
@OP, I agree to your reply. Like anything it would require a balancing act. But the potential for characters having unique abilities, changing the strategy of the encounter, would be awesome. 
  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1789

9/24/13 12:21:36 PM#43

The Trinity works well enough for what it is. However, it is a very simplistic dynamic, not allowing for much depth in strategy and it's rather done to death. It's one thing to have the same dynamic repeated in a few games but to have it repeated in every single game pretty much regardless of theme gets old quick.

For example, if we look at a FPS style game. We can see a much wider variety of roles and many roles have multiple different applications depending upon situation.

In the broad sense we have.... infantry, armor, artillery, air,

However each of these arms breaks down even much further into sub functions with an individual unit being able to fulfill one or more.... recon, fire suppresion, assault, area denial, area control, anti-armor, anti-air, anti-personnel, force protection, transport, combat engineering, medical,  command and control, etc

There is alot more going on there then the typical Trinity Tank and Spank because there are entirely new important functions not really considered in the Trinity (movement, spotting, etc) and strong variation in HOW each unit attacks, defends and performs it's roll (a flamethrower, a machinegun, a howitzer and a dive-bomber all can do a good amount of damage, but they do it in VERY different ways).

So yes, definately I agree with the OP....that the Trinity is not neccesarly the only way or the best way for an MMO to do combat roles. Though it does work on a basic level.

 

 

 

 

  djazzy

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/05
Posts: 3622

9/24/13 12:21:57 PM#44
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by rodingo

Thats pure comedy gold 10/10.

Not going to teach you how to play Dungeons and Dragons since you never played it.

But there is simple things like constitution which gives more hp,hp is good for tank its also good against paralyzation etc..

also fighter with 14+ dex can parry and dodge ,not going to explain this either what does it mean.

I really dont know which movies or books you know where peeps presses taunt button,like there is somekind of taunt button.

I assume you understand what it means to make someone angry or calm,you can call it taunting/detaunting from now on .

Rogues great dmg dealers,ok,maybe with dagger +500.

I wonder what DnD you have played since I found rodingo's post to be fairly accurate. There is no tank in the similar sense there is one in MMORPGs. It is recommended to have a front line, but no need for a "tank" in particular. You can make one, but since the Taunt skill is rather weak, and depending on the GM, it is useful only in a very specialized situation.

Generally you can block enemies by moving in their way but if you don't have Combat Reflexes feat and a high Dexterity, you only get one Attack of Opportunity per enemy. That is if your enemies don't have Mobility, Spring Attack or one doesn't simply grapple you when others move past you freely. And you can't always fight in a 1-square-wide corridor.

It doesn't matter if you build your defense from armor or other AC bonuses, HP or other means, the fact remains, D&D had no tank in the similar sense that MMORPGs have it. Then again, your DM might have run a much different game than I did. Perhaps your D&D combat encounters did resemble trinity combat. Mine didn't.

Also, a Rogue is a utility/burst damage character although highly situational. A high level Rogue is a very powerful thing with high damage if you use it right.

Sure you can play with taunt skill if you want to but i prefer to kicking someone in the balls or cut their legs and also i would like to tell my team to stay back ,also charisma ,int or wis or characters race can be a deciding factor who is getting attacked,and my party might know it.sure you can play with your taunt button,theres plenty of things that i can use to hold aggro also theres hold persons ,monsters (cc) which can help me even further.

And there is a tank in this game,its not needed if you play against -500 level monster i think.

 

 

not sure why you guys are comparing video game mechanics to table top role playing games

aggro in those games are determined by one factor alone, the DM

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5311

 
OP  9/24/13 12:23:53 PM#45
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by CorvusCorax
For me trinity is very important. Any multiplayer game with team content should have it imo. I enjoy filling a specific role that has synergy with another. It is the backbone in every efficient team regardless if its in game or real life. Cant see any downside to it that trinity itself does not solve by itself or comes from design that is tied directly to the trinity.

... when you say 'trinity' here, do you mean 'roles'?

Because I think people are using the two interchangeably, and that's a little confusing.

When I complain that MMOs seem endlessly stuck following the holy trinity lately (As in heal, dps and tank), I specifically mean that particular puzzle set is overused.

Can have lots of ways of setting up roles that doesn't use those specific three roles.

Never seen a battle healer in any team sports game RL I can remember. :T  

Yah thanks Meowhead, just to clarify...Trinity, in the context of this thread means the very specific healer/DPS/tank formula that can be seen in WoW, FFXI and XIV, Rift, etc...

Roles are something that I think are VERY important in a team game, but should NOT be restricted to only the holy trinity.  The holy trinity is a very specific way to implement roles.

Your original post was rather confusing because it spoke about the benefits of roles in general, not about the benefits of the trinity. Roles arise in every game where you can specialize, be that through a class, set of abilities or equipment.

My point was that the thing that makes the Trinity an attractive and fun concept is the fact that it allows people to play a specialized role in a team.  Also, I wouldn't say that roles (meaning roles in a team) necessarily arise in any game where you can specialize.

They only arise when the problems of the game demand them.  For example, in GW2 you can make a warrior that is very specialized toward crowd control with tons of stuns, or an elementalist with lots of AoE healing.  Yet...you don't really see these roles playing a big part in the team dynamic of GW2 PvE.  Most GW2 PvE is just a bunch of random, self-sufficient classes rolling through a dungeon.

Why?

Because the team dynamic of the game does not require that kind of specialization.  Why have a dedicated healer when everyone can heal?  And what is the point of all that CC when you can just lift someone up if they get downed?

The point is that just because you can specialize in a game, does not mean that the team dynamic of choice will necessarily involve specialization.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  EvilKefka

Novice Member

Joined: 9/23/13
Posts: 4

9/24/13 12:24:23 PM#46

I personally love games with the holy trinity, Tank, Healer, DPS.

I think all games need this to function properly PVE wise, another thing people seem to forget is sub categories of the holy trinity like the support classes(Buffing/ Debuffing), Off-tanks, different types of DPS (melee,stealth,burst,DoT,caster,ranged).

There is alot of room for unique things within the trinity but not having a tank or healers in a game just seems wrong.

:)

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5311

 
OP  9/24/13 12:25:50 PM#47
Originally posted by djazzy
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by rodingo

....

Also, a Rogue is a utility/burst damage character although highly situational. A high level Rogue is a very powerful thing with high damage if you use it right.

Sure you can play with taunt skill if you want to but i prefer to kicking someone in the balls or cut their legs and also i would like to tell my team to stay back ,also charisma ,int or wis or characters race can be a deciding factor who is getting attacked,and my party might know it.sure you can play with your taunt button,theres plenty of things that i can use to hold aggro also theres hold persons ,monsters (cc) which can help me even further.

And there is a tank in this game,its not needed if you play against -500 level monster i think.

 

 

not sure why you guys are comparing video game mechanics to table top role playing games

aggro in those games are determined by one factor alone, the DM

Bingo.

The Trinity, as we know it in MMORPGs works ONLY because there is an artificial and predictable aggro mechanic that allows the tank to consistently keep aggro.  If you remove aggro management from a trinity game like WoW, the trinity is gone.

I don't care how tanky you are, if the monster attacks the healer, and you can't stop him...there is no trinity.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  PAL-18

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 577

9/24/13 12:27:42 PM#48
Originally posted by djazzy

not sure why you guys are comparing video game mechanics to table top role playing games

aggro in those games are determined by one factor alone, the DM

There is also morale rolls and monstas might surrender of course depending on DM they also might freeze or run away and such.

So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2281

9/24/13 12:27:43 PM#49
Originally posted by EvilKefka

I personally love games with the holy trinity, Tank, Healer, DPS.

I think all games need this to function properly PVE wise, another thing people seem to forget is sub categories of the holy trinity like the support classes(Buffing/ Debuffing), Off-tanks, different types of DPS (melee,stealth,burst,DoT,caster,ranged).

There is alot of room for unique things within the trinity but not having a tank or healers in a game just seems wrong.

:)

Only if you cannot imagine a world where everyone can do everything and people need to work together compensating each other's weaknesses in a non-linear way :o... I know, shocking.

  PAL-18

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 577

9/24/13 12:34:03 PM#50
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by djazz

 

not sure why you guys are comparing video game mechanics to table top role playing games

aggro in those games are determined by one factor alone, the DM

Bingo.

The Trinity, as we know it in MMORPGs works ONLY because there is an artificial and predictable aggro mechanic that allows the tank to consistently keep aggro.  If you remove aggro management from a trinity game like WoW, the trinity is gone.

I don't care how tanky you are, if the monster attacks the healer, and you can't stop him...there is no trinity.

Problem is that its not possible to remove "aggro management"

Its like saying ,we removed anger,hate and love from world.

 

 

So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2281

9/24/13 12:37:07 PM#51
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by djazz

 

not sure why you guys are comparing video game mechanics to table top role playing games

aggro in those games are determined by one factor alone, the DM

Bingo.

The Trinity, as we know it in MMORPGs works ONLY because there is an artificial and predictable aggro mechanic that allows the tank to consistently keep aggro.  If you remove aggro management from a trinity game like WoW, the trinity is gone.

I don't care how tanky you are, if the monster attacks the healer, and you can't stop him...there is no trinity.

Problem is that its not possible to remove "aggro management"

Its like saying ,we removed anger,hate and love from world.

 

 

You can if you add in systems to compensate for it (players being able to physical manhandle monsters away from healer if needed or block doors with their shields, etc )

  PAL-18

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 577

9/24/13 12:44:32 PM#52
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by djazz

 

not sure why you guys are comparing video game mechanics to table top role playing games

aggro in those games are determined by one factor alone, the DM

Bingo.

The Trinity, as we know it in MMORPGs works ONLY because there is an artificial and predictable aggro mechanic that allows the tank to consistently keep aggro.  If you remove aggro management from a trinity game like WoW, the trinity is gone.

I don't care how tanky you are, if the monster attacks the healer, and you can't stop him...there is no trinity.

Problem is that its not possible to remove "aggro management"

Its like saying ,we removed anger,hate and love from world.

 

 

You can if you add in systems to compensate for it (players being able to physical manhandle monsters away from healer if needed or block doors with their shields, etc )

But what kind of system is that.

Sure if monster int is 0 ,its actions are based on its reflexes.

But if its like 1 for example,lets say angry cat who is attacking me,and i give him catfood(detaunt) and he starts to love me.

And then my friend kicks it and cat might run away or attack (cojones roll 1d6 vs int) my friend.

 

 

So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1789

9/24/13 12:47:33 PM#53
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by djazz

 

not sure why you guys are comparing video game mechanics to table top role playing games

aggro in those games are determined by one factor alone, the DM

Bingo.

The Trinity, as we know it in MMORPGs works ONLY because there is an artificial and predictable aggro mechanic that allows the tank to consistently keep aggro.  If you remove aggro management from a trinity game like WoW, the trinity is gone.

I don't care how tanky you are, if the monster attacks the healer, and you can't stop him...there is no trinity.

Problem is that its not possible to remove "aggro management"

Its like saying ,we removed anger,hate and love from world.

 

 

Oh that's pretty easy....but you need to be able to do things like collision detection, zones of control and opportunity attacks, etc.

"aggro management" was the early computer games solution to "I don't want to deal with collision detection" or try to understand the spatial relationship between objects in the game world. However it's not difficult for a game to do that IF it wants to....it raises some other types of issues...but it is doable. Just many games choose not to do it because it's not they way it has been done in previous games and it forces a bit more thought and teamwork out of the players which many aren't used to do.

 

  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1789

9/24/13 12:51:34 PM#54
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by djazz

 

not sure why you guys are comparing video game mechanics to table top role playing games

aggro in those games are determined by one factor alone, the DM

Bingo.

The Trinity, as we know it in MMORPGs works ONLY because there is an artificial and predictable aggro mechanic that allows the tank to consistently keep aggro.  If you remove aggro management from a trinity game like WoW, the trinity is gone.

I don't care how tanky you are, if the monster attacks the healer, and you can't stop him...there is no trinity.

Problem is that its not possible to remove "aggro management"

Its like saying ,we removed anger,hate and love from world.

 

 

You can if you add in systems to compensate for it (players being able to physical manhandle monsters away from healer if needed or block doors with their shields, etc )

But what kind of system is that.

Sure if monster int is 0 ,its actions are based on its reflexes.

But if its like 1 for example,lets say angry cat who is attacking me,and i give him catfood(detaunt) and he starts to love me.

And then my friend kicks it and cat might run away or attack (cojones roll 1d6 vs int) my friend.

 

 

No it' would be the "Madden Football" type of system where as much you might want to get to the quarterback, you can't if there is a blocker physicaly interposing himself between you and your goal.

  PAL-18

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 577

9/24/13 12:56:04 PM#55
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by djazz

 

not sure why you guys are comparing video game mechanics to table top role playing games

aggro in those games are determined by one factor alone, the DM

Bingo.

The Trinity, as we know it in MMORPGs works ONLY because there is an artificial and predictable aggro mechanic that allows the tank to consistently keep aggro.  If you remove aggro management from a trinity game like WoW, the trinity is gone.

I don't care how tanky you are, if the monster attacks the healer, and you can't stop him...there is no trinity.

Problem is that its not possible to remove "aggro management"

Its like saying ,we removed anger,hate and love from world.

 

 

You can if you add in systems to compensate for it (players being able to physical manhandle monsters away from healer if needed or block doors with their shields, etc )

But what kind of system is that.

Sure if monster int is 0 ,its actions are based on its reflexes.

But if its like 1 for example,lets say angry cat who is attacking me,and i give him catfood(detaunt) and he starts to love me.

And then my friend kicks it and cat might run away or attack (cojones roll 1d6 vs int) my friend.

No it' would be the "Madden Football" type of system where as much you might want to get to the quarterback, you can't if there is a blocker physicaly interposing himself between you and your goal.

Even in maddens football you have anger management ,there they use their eyes and ears and bodylanguage.

See this cat hates me for a reason,it might be the way i look or something that i told him,people does that in sports too.

Theres a reason why its good to "stay calm"

 

So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1421

9/24/13 12:56:43 PM#56

aside from the tank not showing up, most of the other problems with the trinity exist because the games have become so easy that you don't need roles. you don't even need a tank in a lot of trinity games anymore until endgame. you never need to CC anything anymore, and you can heal 0-80 in wow with renew. buffs are completely homogenized so there is no buff role anymore, and who needs buffs, the content is too easy to even care about buffs.

the whole thing has been gutted down to stupidity levels. probably why gw2 is so heralded. it plays the same as 1-80 in wow .. just faceroll zerg after faceroll zerg, and it doesn't have much of an endgame, which is the only point where you need real tanking and healing in trinity games. wow could probably just make tanking and healing a secondary thought at endgame for raiding and no one would even notice.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4506

9/24/13 12:57:59 PM#57

Good discussion, though i think a lot is being glossed over in this thread.

The benefit of the trinity isn't in having roles. All RPGs have roles, as do most other games. The thing about the trinity is that it provides easily accessible, and easy to understand roles. Simply put, most people don't like having to figure out how to play their character. They prefer clearly defined and fewer choices. I know some people are going to disagree with this, but it's a well documented fact of human nature. Aka paradox of choice.

To use DotA as an example, one of the great things about that game is that the roles are actually much more flexible than people first realize. However, on the surface, it tells you exactly how (you're supposed) to play your character. By contrast, Guild Wars also has a ton of flexibility, but does a very poor job of telling people how to play their character.

This permeates into combat, where I see a lot of complaints about non-trinity games being 'too chaotic'. The thing is, actual combat IS chaotic. There's nothing neat or organized about a war, a battle, or a skirmish. Even in historical battles, where they tried to organize their groups into neat formations, the second swords started clashing that all fell apart and turned into a massive chaotic mess.

This doesn't mean that there is no strategy, thought, or skill involved. An assumption I see a lot of people make. On the contrary much of the fun comes from creating order out of chaos. From outsmarting the general melee and creating your own advantages. This is something the trinity cannot provide, because it centers around structuring combat in a (very) artificial manner. Combat can never get too crazy, because the dynamic must allow for tanks to tank. For healers to stay alive and heal. And for DPS / CC to end the fights before resources exhaust. Furthermore, they can't make healers too tanky, or the DPS / CC too strong, or else it minimizes the need for a tank.

Essentially, the trinity is nice and easy to understand. And therefor successful. But there are also those of us that enjoy more challenging gameplay. That enjoy complex mechanics, and dynamic problems that require more thought. And that is something that even the best trinity games can't really provide. This isn't to say that all trinity games are easy, but they are deliberately simplified in order to be accessible.

 

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4506

9/24/13 1:05:27 PM#58
Originally posted by azmundai

aside from the tank not showing up, most of the other problems with the trinity exist because the games have become so easy that you don't need roles. you don't even need a tank in a lot of trinity games anymore until endgame. you never need to CC anything anymore, and you can heal 0-80 in wow with renew. buffs are completely homogenized so there is no buff role anymore, and who needs buffs, the content is too easy to even care about buffs.

the whole thing has been gutted down to stupidity levels. probably why gw2 is so heralded. it plays the same as 1-80 in wow .. just faceroll zerg after faceroll zerg, and it doesn't have much of an endgame, which is the only point where you need real tanking and healing in trinity games. wow could probably just make tanking and healing a secondary thought at endgame for raiding and no one would even notice.

While I agree that many of these games have become way too easy, what you are suggesting is a gross exaggeration.

Trinity games still require healing (and tanking). Especially at end game. It's mostly the mechanics that have been dumbed down.

Furthermore, 'zerging' has nothing to do with trinity game play. Compare dynamic events in GW2, with public quests in WAR, with FATES in FFXI, or Rifts in RIFT, and you will see that they all can get pretty zergy. Zerging is a biproduct of a game having many players in one space. Nothing more. If you want to truly play MMOs (massively multiplayer), then zerging is something you're going to have to get used to. People will always bunch together when able, regardless of how much the game tries to dissuade them not to.

The reason why GW2 is heralded is for a number of reasons. Mostly, it legitimately solves a lot of the problems with the trinity (even though that's also a reason why a lot of people don't like it). It allows players to create their own roles via class customization, giving players the choice to either try and play into defined roles, or to come up w/ more creative builds. It also gets rid of a lot of annoying things most trinity games have like mob tagging & fighting over loot.

Essentially it's just a very different kind of MMO, and a lot of people wanted that.

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5348

I dare you to pin a label on me.

9/24/13 1:12:56 PM#59
Originally posted by djazzy
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by rodingo

Thats pure comedy gold 10/10.

Not going to teach you how to play Dungeons and Dragons since you never played it.

But there is simple things like constitution which gives more hp,hp is good for tank its also good against paralyzation etc..

also fighter with 14+ dex can parry and dodge ,not going to explain this either what does it mean.

I really dont know which movies or books you know where peeps presses taunt button,like there is somekind of taunt button.

I assume you understand what it means to make someone angry or calm,you can call it taunting/detaunting from now on .

Rogues great dmg dealers,ok,maybe with dagger +500.

I wonder what DnD you have played since I found rodingo's post to be fairly accurate. There is no tank in the similar sense there is one in MMORPGs. It is recommended to have a front line, but no need for a "tank" in particular. You can make one, but since the Taunt skill is rather weak, and depending on the GM, it is useful only in a very specialized situation.

Generally you can block enemies by moving in their way but if you don't have Combat Reflexes feat and a high Dexterity, you only get one Attack of Opportunity per enemy. That is if your enemies don't have Mobility, Spring Attack or one doesn't simply grapple you when others move past you freely. And you can't always fight in a 1-square-wide corridor.

It doesn't matter if you build your defense from armor or other AC bonuses, HP or other means, the fact remains, D&D had no tank in the similar sense that MMORPGs have it. Then again, your DM might have run a much different game than I did. Perhaps your D&D combat encounters did resemble trinity combat. Mine didn't.

Also, a Rogue is a utility/burst damage character although highly situational. A high level Rogue is a very powerful thing with high damage if you use it right.

Sure you can play with taunt skill if you want to but i prefer to kicking someone in the balls or cut their legs and also i would like to tell my team to stay back ,also charisma ,int or wis or characters race can be a deciding factor who is getting attacked,and my party might know it.sure you can play with your taunt button,theres plenty of things that i can use to hold aggro also theres hold persons ,monsters (cc) which can help me even further.

And there is a tank in this game,its not needed if you play against -500 level monster i think.

not sure why you guys are comparing video game mechanics to table top role playing games

aggro in those games are determined by one factor alone, the DM

Hate to be pedantic and slightly off-topic here, but if you follow the rules to the letter there are some skill/ability checks which could be used to force the enemy to attack you instead of your friend. Bluff for example or Bardic Knowledge (come up with the right insult). There's also the Suggestion and Mass Suggestion spells which could be used exactly how taunting operates in MMORPGs. The rules are pretty vague in such things, although DM can always override those rules.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Ozivois

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/10
Posts: 599

9/24/13 1:16:19 PM#60

The items listed as "the bad" don't apply to trinity because those are the same "bad" issues as appear in a non-trinity setup as well.

1. In non-trinity all players are dps and therefore all are doing the same rotation over and over. Trinity at least gives more variety in gameplay by offering different roles.

2. No tank = no raid is better than Raid = zergfest; besides in a non-trinity game raids will rely on raid leaders to coordinate the tough parts, and you still have the problem of no raid leader = no raid.

3. Encounters are even less dynamic in non-trinity. Players just doing their rotation over and over again. You can't criticize trinity for getting old until you can prove other systems have encounters that never get old. It doesn't exist.

 

Not only should games have trinity, but they should have (and most older MMO's do) multiple roles required for all difficult encounters. CC and Barding(buffing/de-buffing roles) are two big ones that should be built-in requirements.

 

 

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