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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning: A WAR Worth Fighting For?

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62 posts found
  battlesam

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 12

9/21/13 12:00:13 PM#41

I was there at the beginning of DAoC, and beta tested WAR and subsequently played for a month or two.

 

WAR was two games overlaid, that is why it seemed too instanced. Imo, war was first a collection of BGs. You flew to the Dwarf world to get in some BGs, you flew to the Elf world to get in others. 

 

This pattern was thus stamped on to the pve/rvr lakes world too. This created a non-communicative, non-linear, non-progressive feeling to the entire game. My belief is Mythic alone was responsible for this, and I think it was a misguided result of WoW chasing.

 

Public questing has proven to be a revolutionary MMORPG feature, but I think RvR Lakes could prove to be even more important . WAR had most of the pieces to make a truly great game, but the pieces were arranged very, very poorly due to the developer's hard on with BGs.

 

The real innovation of WAR was an overall model for games, (one which ESO failed to see)

  1. PVE centric games should use the PVE/BG instances model.
  2. PVP centric games should use the PVE/RvR lakes model

 

 
 
 
  Chrisbox

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1591

9/21/13 12:06:00 PM#42
Originally posted by krage
Originally posted by ThumbtackJ

Such a mismanaged game, and the finger can be pointed at everyone (Mythic, EA, GW, etc). =/ Easily my biggest letdown of the last decade. 

 

If only they had used the funds that were spent to make the garbage that was Wrath of Heroes on a WAR Free to Play transition. Making WAR F2P wouldn't give it a bajillion players or anything like that, but it likely would have brought in those looking for a PvP/RvR fix and generated some revenue from a cosmetic cash shop (renown/exp boosts, costumes, mounts, pets, etc). Those funds then could have been spent on adding more content, fixing bugs, etc. WAR was very unique and there is not another game out there (that I'm aware of, aside from maybe DAoC) that gave you a sense of rivalry as well as some awesome PvP/RvR like WAR does.

 

Could have, should have, would have, I suppose. It is what it is. I'll be playing on and off on an endless trial account doing some Tier 1 RvR until December 4th or so, when I'll activate my 14 free days to come back for one last WAAAGH with everyone else when the lights go out.

This ^

 

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  Popple

Novice Member

Joined: 6/14/11
Posts: 156

9/21/13 12:11:30 PM#43

I remember when people hyped this game...LOL

The comments about this game has been said so many times (The Good,the bad, and the ugly).I am surprise it did not close it doors years ago..

I retired retroactively..Haha

  Morgaren

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/04/09
Posts: 394

For me, the gates will open.

9/21/13 12:14:05 PM#44

I was looking at old patch notes yesterday. I got pissed.

 

If you look at the patch notes for the early patches before choppa and slayer came out, it shows them tuning warrior preist and bright wizards with the exact same %'s as sorcerer/Disciple of Khaine. I remember when the game was first coming out, there was the issue of way more Destruction players than order players. Soon afterwards, they introduced offering more xp and such to the side with less population. That didn't work.

 

Call me crazy I remember patch notes that said things like:

 

"Bright wizards blah ability does more damage"

 

"Sorcerer's blah ability does less damage"

 

"Warrior priest not heal themselves when hit"

 

"DoK still suck most of the time"

 

Not exactly, but I remember a serious tuning across the board making order more powerful. Then of course everyone started playing order. Except people like me, cause I think Orc's are freaking awesome. Cause they are.

But what pissed me off is either at the time I was stupid and could not read, or they went back and made it look like all the classes were treated the same from the very beginning, but there were suppose to be different classes, not mirrors (even though they were similar, which was cool), so that wouldn't really work.

 

Does anyone else remember this?

  Yukmarc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/08/12
Posts: 92

9/21/13 12:32:32 PM#45

If it were Mythic, then I might be a little sad, but since it's EA, screw em and good riddance.

Mythic didn't mess up this game, EA did.

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

9/21/13 3:20:18 PM#46

potential + ea = disaster

might as well be a Blue Jays fan.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  nennafir

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 240

9/21/13 3:35:21 PM#47

It lacked focus and tried to have too many areas (instanced pvp, open world pvp, public quests) where you needed lots of people to get things going.

From early in development to about midway, all you heard about was instanced pvp scenarios and public quests.  Then they released it for some open testing (to a lot of DAOC diehards I think) and got complaints about no open world pvp.  So they added that.

Then when it was released everyone just did scenarios so they balanced against that and for open world.  Etc. etc.

I think that they just needed to put their foot down about what type of game it was.  With the 3 different focus areas, they were screwed because none worked properly without enough people.  If you were into scenarios, they took too long to pop if not enough people.  If you were into public quests, you could never get past the first stage without enough people.  And open world pvp in a ghost town is no fun.

I think they just split their player base up too much relative to the size of their servers.  Maybe if they had a Champions-Online-type 1 server setup they could have survived, but too much of the game became an unplayable ghosttown and their rebalancing wasn't helping clear the confusion about what the actual focus of the game was.

  Malkos

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/07
Posts: 14

9/21/13 6:50:00 PM#48
Originally posted by Eolex

The problem with the game was apparent fro day 1. Mythic went to big in all the wrong directions. If it were me calling the shots, i would have done the following.

1.) 3 factions. If armies and classes were already mirrored, how hard would of been to add some cosmetics and classes of other races, a dogs of war faction if you will.

2 factions is all that was needed. Chaos and Order. While it was slightly less believable that Chaos would all unite, it was still plausable. Another faction would have just split the player base even more.

2.)  shrink the rvr pools. There is no need for 3 different pools per tier. While we are at it, they should have done away with scenarios. Either pick open rvr or set size battlegrounds, but quit splitting your player base up. Its a niche game, so let it be niche. Which brings me to my next point.

I do agree that the rvr pools split the player base too heavily, but just because a game has a "niche" doesn't mean it will be succesfull or even good.

3.) too much focus on pve and public quests. Your an rvr game from a company that has success doing rvr stuff. Wile im not saying hay make daoc 2.0, they would of been better off making daoc with a warhammer skin. I know a lot of people that feel this way about it.

This one is complete and utter bullshit. There was BARELY any focus on PvE to begin with. And less focus on public quests? WAR was probably one of the first, if not THE first, to put them in game and they are now wildly succesful. 

And to ignore the deep rich lore of Warhammer and do a purely PvP game is.. is.. like going to a concert with noise canceling headphones just to see the light show!!!

4.) 1 capital city was fine, no need to spread out your social hubs either. The fact that got chopped was a god send to the social aspect of the game.

The only reason 1 capital per side was fine was because of the tiny playerbase. I for one am very disapointed that they never opened the other capitals up at all.

Such a Strong platform wasted on weak developers, who have shown success in the genre!!!  I for one am so glad we have a new direction of game making that has been presented by the likes of SOE. Its apparent this day and age that developers and publishers are so disconnected from their audience that we keep getting served up crap. I honestly feel like picking a modern MMO to play is like picking a flavor of a turd. At the end of the day its still a turd! So looking forward to developers reaching out to us consumers from here on out. 

 

 

  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1828

9/21/13 6:53:09 PM#49
They are just fail. And unethical to boot. Also VERY unprofessional.

Can you believe that they actually deved the f2p model only for carrie to say "nah! I don't like it! Scrape it. But this here{sth marginally important}...". She also shat all over the expansion. Right before the planned testing of counts+Lizardmen, she said that she was bored of WAR and that they needed sth different. Thus WOH came to be. She spent expansion budget money+scraped the actual expansion only for that piece of nothing. Can you believe that? Not even speaking about the fact that XBLAs were more important to her than WAR. Hell, even some unimportant meetings were more important to her than WAR. It all culminated with the famous "WAR contains a LOT of boring CRAP". I still don't have any comment on that...idk to call it. Statement? Nonsense? Suicide? Now riddle me this after you learned(or remembered) all of that:

What kind of management is that?
  TheCrow2k

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 956

9/21/13 7:47:00 PM#50

Wow you never even mentioned The BIGGEST mistake Mythic made, which was denying their was any imbalance in PvP even in the face of overwhelming community gathered evidence that something was wrong. First you had a bright wizard DoT that could stack an unlimited number of times and to further compound this problem magic resistance gear did not actually work. Both problems were denied by Mythic and some of the most passionate community members who dared to repeatedly post evidence were banned from the forums.....

You cannot make a PvP centric game and have such glaringly obvious imbalances/exploits in the game and deny their existance.

I Recall when I finally left for good. I think it was about 6 months after launch, the above problems were still not fixed and still being denied by the devs. I was participating on the defending side of a T4 siege. The attacking team was literally made up of over 90% bright wizards who tore through our defenses with a rediculous speed & I remember just dying in seconds over and over to stacked dots which you couldnt remove or defend against with gear, trying to outheal them with potions that just couldnt beat the bugged DoT stacks. The Siege Ended and I thought screw this I will go PvE, an hour later I was dozing off at the Bland PvE and logged out.

I went to the Forums to vent & found yet another large ongoing thread on the subject had been deleted and the OP banned so I didnt even bother posting. The following weekend I logged in one last time to say goodbye to the few Guildies still playing, logged out & uninstalled the game. Other players all accross the world were doing the exact same thing in droves.

WAR has actually survived longer than it deserved to IMHO it did however teach me one valuable lesson. The lesson was that players subscription money is not used where it should be on 90% of MMO's and it is pointless to buy and subscribe to a game that launches incomplete in hopes they use your financial support to fix it because they never do.

  User Deleted
9/22/13 7:53:49 AM#51

I saw the marketing of this game at launch and I was not impressed.

Selling anything Games Workshop to me was always going to be tough, due to the way they consumed the UK role-playing hobby in the 90s in order to replace it with their premium lifestyle wargames product lines.

If they were seeking to draw cash from the UK market they essentially would need to focus on pricing set at the level of pocket-money received by UK teenagers and tie the playing of the game into shop activities in order to get people to be bothered about the game.

  SlyLoK

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/08
Posts: 1043

9/22/13 11:03:01 AM#52

What made me stop playing WAR..

1. Incredibly linear world. It was like a single winding path and that was it.

2. PvE and Public Quests were mostly garbage. Some will say DAoC was an RvR game and others will say it was a good game. I am the latter. DAoC had underrated PvE with some great dungeons and for a change of pace I dabbled in RvR ( I would say the majority did this imo ). WAR had nothing for PvE. 

3. Terrible engine. Oh man. 

4. Class imbalance. It was a joke from day one.

IMO if WAR had a better designed world and better PvE it would still be kicking.

  Dimsum1337

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/12
Posts: 60

9/22/13 5:28:15 PM#53

Peeps can say what they like but I loved WAR. After the initial failure of a launch i found that many people weren't  happy with the game, which to be fair at the time was way better as to compared to the competition. RvR was bloody great! 

The fact remains that if the devs weren't pulled of this game right after launch alot of the issues could have been sorted out. Instead a skeleton crew of devs (or a dev singular) was left to gather the pieces of what was a mega epic fail of a launch with the rest (commenters will correct me- being transferred to SWTOR was it???). 

Warhammer lore is some of the best IP out there for MMORPGs and to see the last game from this IP being closed down is mos def something to whine about. WAR could live on as f2p simply on the power of the IP. The last ditch attempt to turn WAR into a mini moba instead of dealing with some of the issues in the game is just an example of how this IP was mismanaged gtom the get go.

I cant wait for a game that pays justice to the IP. This IP is literally harder to mess up than Star Wars and still I think WAR was better in many aspects than SWTOR!

Whytf do I have to wait for 2014/15 for a decent WARHAMMER IP game.... ??????

  zellmer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/09
Posts: 452

9/23/13 2:49:19 AM#54

Oh yeah, Warhammer...

Talk about all the stuff they promised and hyped that never was in the game, not to mention the management of it..
  nadrian3k

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/29/08
Posts: 102

9/23/13 4:02:10 AM#55

No F2P killed this game. I loved everything about it at the start when i played it. It had a great balance between cartoonish and spooky dark content. It had fun moments and serious moments. Battles were epic even fi they became "meh" at some point..u still had an urge to go in and stomp ppl. The enviroments were also extremely well done and the transition between enviroments even better.

I would have definitely went back to play it, no doubt about it, if it was F2P. What did they do instead? they did some side...random..pvp whatever game. Not cool. Waste of money and a major experiment fail...but i guess that's part of experimenting.

...and here i was hoping they would make it F2P to go back and have fun. The game was VERY good but management has killed it. I won't buy 40k since it goes live because i want to see player reactions. Lost faith in the name "warhammer" whoever it might work on it because of the hands down stupid manangement the first mmo had.

  Hatefull

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/04
Posts: 758

Your tears make my gun work better.

9/23/13 5:33:07 AM#56
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Is this type of conversation required every time a failing MMO is shut down?

 

What could have been done? It could have been made properly. Since it wasn't, just about everyone hated it and it wasn't profitable. End of same old story.

While I don't agree with your hostility - why come to a place where people post their opinions about games and get snooty when they do so?  You make no sense and then proceed to make a hypocrite out of yourself by offering your opinion.  Well done.  However, you did say something that I have thought for a long time.  

 

It could have been made properly.

 

That was a trend it seems for quite a few games, EQ2, WAR, AoC, SW:TOR, etc to get out the door on a time line as opposed to when the game was actually ready to ship.  Hopefully we have seen the end of that trend.  I feel most of these games would have done a lot better had the producers finished them prior to shipping them.

 

If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  tachgb

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/02
Posts: 789

9/23/13 6:07:28 AM#57

WAR wasn't all that good anyways. Now if they had closed DAOC, I would be sad, one of the best MMORPG's ever made.

 

Back in June they announced 6 month sub plans were disabled, 3 months later the games closer in December...Yeah, thanks for the 6 months notice..... :o

 

I take it it wasn't worth them repurchasing the Warhammer license kinda similar to SWG when Sony shut it down as the license was expiring anyways.

 
  Mercscythe

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/06
Posts: 135

9/23/13 7:29:53 AM#58
I feel like it is a lot simpler than what people make it out to be. This game just played really poorly. It felt stiff and clunky. Games like this and SWTOR just have an awful feel to them when you play. Not saying had they smoothed things out it would have been better, but if the most basic of foundations are off, you aren't going to retain people long enough to fix anything.
  MumboJumbo

Elite Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3204

Veni, Vidi, Converti

9/23/13 7:48:15 AM#59

One thing that always bothered me was the title: "Warhammer: Age of Reckoning" a useful acronym: WAR, but it always made me think:

"That is not Warhammer - that is shoe-horning some bs in..."

Indeed the design was wow 2.0 not warhammer. Also tech issues(memory leaks etc) with the RvR huge battles not working properly. Indeed I remember some story about Mythic seeking to sue Gambryo the engine they were using. Then as above those patch notes rebalance class x.

From the players pov, what you experienced in the first week was probably nearly the same for the rest of the time you played or at least the first month with just repetition ie choose class/area and do the same pvp mini-games or the pve public quest nodes. I think PvE was quite solitary too.

That all said liked the lore and graphics representation of warhammer those were very fun to see realized eg the locations. But also the hopping around the map from lake to lake was really bad too.

I think the migratory guilds also put paid to it: "back to conan, back to wow, back to aion etc!"

  Talonsin

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 1104

9/23/13 1:07:24 PM#60
Loved this game when it first came out and loved the first tier of PVP.  Then I hit the second tier of PVP and the huge class imbalance issues killed it for me.  Never got to the third tier, made a bunch of alts and PVPed at the first tier until I got bored and moved on.  So much potential...
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