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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Let's rethink Hit Points.

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114 posts found
  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13177

9/22/13 6:28:26 PM#21

The only decent alternatives to hit points that I've seen are one-shot kills and multiple health bars where you die when any one health bar goes to zero.  I've seen the latter done as directional (e.g., front, back, and sides of a ship) or fundamentally different ways to die (e.g., ship sinking versus all crew on it being killed).

In real life combat, if you land the first hard strike, you're probably going to win.  If person A shoots person B with a gun, person B probably isn't going to subsequently win that battle unless the bullet merely grazed him or otherwise didn't hurt him much.  For the first thing to hit you to be fatal isn't fun with typical combat; you'd really have to design a game around that to make it work.

Typical MMORPG combat doesn't really allow for different types of hits other than probability-based or directional-based.  Attacking characters don't aim at particular anatomy on the opponent; they repeatedly stab a particular spot in the air.  Defending characters don't check to see if you hit an arm or a leg; for hit detection, they're probably either a box or a cylinder, neither of which have arms, legs, or a head.

Also, hit points have been around for a very long time, but early console games tended not to explicitly state the hit points numbers.  For example, Zelda 1 and 2 use a hit point system, but never explicitly tell you how many hit points of damage an attack did.  In most cases, they don't display enemy health at all; the mob is either alive or dead.

  severius

Elite Member

Joined: 8/10/04
Posts: 1524

9/22/13 6:40:57 PM#22
Originally posted by Mendel

....

As someone who has competed for a very long time, as someone who has hiked the PCT and Muir Trails I can tell you that a hit point pool is pretty accurate.  Call it whatever you want but every one of us has a reservoir that we draw from as we perform activities.  Look at the triathletes and ironpeople, they use up 100% of the energy pools and a whole lot of em use up an additional 80-99% of their hps.  

As a side note, everything that you complain about missing from computer games because "Hit points were used to create a single number in a dice driven...." actually are or were in those pen and paper games that you seem to denegrate.  There have been plenty of games that have had the critical misses, critical hits (more than just a damage boost) etc.  Games that have had location specific hit points - Gladiator, Champions, BattleTech, and others that people played once they graduated from the basic set dungeons and dragons.

They have even brought this over into pc games but the vast majority of players don't like it, and I can't blame em, it would suck to have to walk with one gimped leg clear across a game map where the developers allow no straight shots because switchbacks and loops make you pay to play longer.


  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13177

9/22/13 6:44:55 PM#23
Originally posted by severius
Originally posted by Mendel

....

As someone who has competed for a very long time, as someone who has hiked the PCT and Muir Trails I can tell you that a hit point pool is pretty accurate.  Call it whatever you want but every one of us has a reservoir that we draw from as we perform activities.  Look at the triathletes and ironpeople, they use up 100% of the energy pools and a whole lot of em use up an additional 80-99% of their hps.  

That's an energy pool that gets used up by walking long distances.   It's not an injury pool where the first so many times you get stabbed have no effect, and then suddenly you die.

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

9/22/13 6:50:26 PM#24

We've talked about this before. It usually ends up more confusing or going to a skill based combat.

If there was a way to get mount and blade combat in a way that the average user could be successful at, I think that would solve the issue. Maybe visual cues to show what attack is coming.

Would also solve a lot of progression based issues. But I don't have any idea if that is possible in an open world setting.

 

 

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  kjempff

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/12/04
Posts: 667

Make worlds not stories

9/22/13 7:05:55 PM#25

Problem is most people want mechanics they can understand, and while systems like multiple hit boxes (arms, legs, head, foot, hands, etc) would make everything more realistic, it also takes away the users progress measuring ability.

If such systems should work, it would have to be a more complete rethinking of several mmorpg concepts. Numbers in general has to be taking out of sight of the user, and more emphasis put on the general feel and focus on roleplaying. Behind it all ofcourse are numbers, but a user should not know specifics about it, but still be aware how well he is doing. I suppose it would be very hard and time consuming to implement subtle stuff like that, really seriously time consuming, so the question is if anyone would dare try it when hp systems are easy to control and create.

I would love to see a mmorpg where not everything is measurable and in my face as numbers, where there is no "best" method or build, or dps, or damage, or stats for that matter. I remember, and I have a feeling others do aswell in their respective first mmorpgs, the time before I knew the exact numbers and formulas of mob resists, slow percentages, haste percentages, snare or root counters, durations etc in Eq.. the game was much more interesting before I started measuring and calculating on those; I could never not do it if the data is available, but if it just weren't.... Such things can really bring life and that feeling of mystic fantasy into a game world.

The perfect example on a game that has taken numbers to the extreme and other direction of this, is World of Numbe.. err Warcraft, and as great as it feels to know the details of everything and weigh everything, always beeing certain, it also makes it a little dull in the long run. Personally over the years, games I have enjoyed most were those that were more subtle, where I had to experiment to find "best" ways to do stuff, or even gave room for personal play styles ... multiple play styles that were mostly equally effective.

  DrCokePepsi

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 163

What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion.
~Sephiroth FFVII

9/22/13 7:22:59 PM#26


Originally posted by Mendel
The gaming industry has used the same basic methods for abstracting conflict resolution for so long now that the fundamental gaming aspect has gotten stale.  Weapon damage is resolved by random numbers and spell damage with bigger random numbers each whittling away on a target's (both mobs and players) pool of increasing silly HPs.  Healers (and potions and regeneration effects) rapidly try to replenish that pool of HPs before the pool reaches 0.  Additionally, there are all too many games that bestow Hit Points from items, further increasing the totals of characters and is a root cause of mudflation.  At some point, this abstraction will need to evolve; hit points can't be the best (and only) way to simulate the human body.

Hit points abstract a person's ability to continue fighting coupled with defenses.  It doesn't abstract pain, nor bruises, nor broken bones, nor cut tissue, nor pulled muscles, nor internal injuries or any other side effect of one object hitting flesh and bone.   Hit points are not very good at dealing with lasting effects such as burns or poisons or lack of use.  Try throwing a ball with a broken wrist, or kicking a ball with a twisted ankle, you might be able to accomplish the task, but it will not be as sharp or accurate as an unhindered effort.  The basic hit point system is now dated and MMORPGs need another way to abstract the human's ability to retain life.

Hit points were used to create a single number in a dice-driven pen-and-paper gaming environment.  But with computers, is there really a need to boil everything down to a single number anymore?   Why not an alive/dead abstraction with separate pain tolerance levels (abstractions) for each area of the body?  Or various, constant pools of health points associated with each hit location?  Or fatality percentages for each hit location?

Changes to this basic Hit Point abstraction has ripple effects throughout the entire game system.  Combat, natural healing, magical healing, combat magics and other affects use or manipulate these values within the game world.  I've tried making several non-HP-based systems.   I've not gotten it good enough to be satisfied with, and I've been trying for almost 25 years now.

It's not an easy mechanism to replace, but I think it is time that MMORPGs break its reliance on this RP tradition.  And I believe that the next big challenge for MMORPGs is to find a better model for the human body than the Hit Point model.

Your ideas and opinions are welcome.



As of right now, I'm comfortable with the system. The HP bar or indicater is just an accessible way mid-combat to determine how well your doing without having to churn through several bars, or some other system which i can not fathom right now lol.

The HP pools do well in incorporating such broken bones/pulled muscles or what have you with status effects. Obviously differing game from game, they're typically poison, hinder, stun, etc. etc. and each effects the pool in an appropriate and fitting way.

Not to say I'm not open to new ideas, I just can't fathom a completely new concept for health status that hans't been done/wouldn't be annoying.

And I don't think your boredom of the mechanic is because of the way health is designed, but because of the new games in general. The gaming industry is severely broken right now. Maybe I'm wrong, just food for thought.

  Davynelord

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 121

9/22/13 10:06:49 PM#27

The simple answer to this is as long as current game mechanics continue making money and companies feel successful with it, it don't make sense to change anything at all.....so they'll keep making their D&D, Diablo, WOW-like games and 80% of us will still be idiots and buy into it.  All they have to do is keep producing enticing graphics and stories and putting half naked women in the trailers or on the box cover and they'll keep us hooked even though the game mechanics and overall essence of games are still the same 20+ year old concepts.

 

We only have to blame ourselves because we make the game industry what it is...if we buy into crap, they keep making crap...

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1000

9/22/13 10:14:07 PM#28
I guess you could have levels of damage. Blocked/dodged/absorbed, nicked, graze, hit, bash, punish, devastate. You then have attacks that focus on high/middle/low. High are least accurate to head. Middle most accurate to arms and body. Low are in between that focus on legs. Each area has certain effects that can happen. For example a blow to the head can blind, daze, knock out, kill or just damage your head. Harder the hit the greater % for bad things. Damage ups the % for bad things to happen on the next hit. So a devastating hit may have 30% chance of death while a ick has 0%.
  koboldfodder

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 360

9/22/13 10:23:29 PM#29

SWG had Health, Action and Mind.  If you got to zero on any one of those, you would go unconscious.  A creature that could deathblow you would, but most let you get back up with a debuff where you would die if you got another unconscious knockout.

 

Always goes back to SWG....odd.

  Helleri

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 724

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”- Henry Ford

9/22/13 10:55:44 PM#30
Originally posted by Quizzical

The only decent alternatives to hit points that I've seen are one-shot kills and multiple health bars where you die when any one health bar goes to zero.  I've seen the latter done as directional (e.g., front, back, and sides of a ship) or fundamentally different ways to die (e.g., ship sinking versus all crew on it being killed).

In real life combat, if you land the first hard strike, you're probably going to win.  If person A shoots person B with a gun, person B probably isn't going to subsequently win that battle unless the bullet merely grazed him or otherwise didn't hurt him much.  For the first thing to hit you to be fatal isn't fun with typical combat; you'd really have to design a game around that to make it work.

Typical MMORPG combat doesn't really allow for different types of hits other than probability-based or directional-based.  Attacking characters don't aim at particular anatomy on the opponent; they repeatedly stab a particular spot in the air.  Defending characters don't check to see if you hit an arm or a leg; for hit detection, they're probably either a box or a cylinder, neither of which have arms, legs, or a head.

Also, hit points have been around for a very long time, but early console games tended not to explicitly state the hit points numbers.  For example, Zelda 1 and 2 use a hit point system, but never explicitly tell you how many hit points of damage an attack did.  In most cases, they don't display enemy health at all; the mob is either alive or dead.

Actually, in most MMORPG there is no strike zone. After .getName on target it's just a glorified game of yahtzee.

 

 

 

 

Qualifiers for failing to deliver on story (in a supposedly story driven MMORPG):
If my character starts out ship wrecked on a beach.
If my character has amnesia; But, is also somehow the chosen one.
If my character has a place of origin that they will likely never set foot in until mid-high level.

  Drakephire

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 355

9/22/13 11:19:22 PM#31
OP, your system of hit location has been implemented before...not only PnP games, but computer games as well. The game I'm speaking of specifically is Battletech.  Hit locations, with each area able to sustain certain amounts of damage before critical components fail. Occasionally a lucky shot will bypass all HP and damage a critical component directly.
  neorandom

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/08
Posts: 1753

9/22/13 11:21:04 PM#32
Originally posted by Mendel

The gaming industry has used the same basic methods for abstracting conflict resolution for so long now that the fundamental gaming aspect has gotten stale.  Weapon damage is resolved by random numbers and spell damage with bigger random numbers each whittling away on a target's (both mobs and players) pool of increasing silly HPs.  Healers (and potions and regeneration effects) rapidly try to replenish that pool of HPs before the pool reaches 0.  Additionally, there are all too many games that bestow Hit Points from items, further increasing the totals of characters and is a root cause of mudflation.  At some point, this abstraction will need to evolve; hit points can't be the best (and only) way to simulate the human body.

Hit points abstract a person's ability to continue fighting coupled with defenses.  It doesn't abstract pain, nor bruises, nor broken bones, nor cut tissue, nor pulled muscles, nor internal injuries or any other side effect of one object hitting flesh and bone.   Hit points are not very good at dealing with lasting effects such as burns or poisons or lack of use.  Try throwing a ball with a broken wrist, or kicking a ball with a twisted ankle, you might be able to accomplish the task, but it will not be as sharp or accurate as an unhindered effort.  The basic hit point system is now dated and MMORPGs need another way to abstract the human's ability to retain life.

Hit points were used to create a single number in a dice-driven pen-and-paper gaming environment.  But with computers, is there really a need to boil everything down to a single number anymore?   Why not an alive/dead abstraction with separate pain tolerance levels (abstractions) for each area of the body?  Or various, constant pools of health points associated with each hit location?  Or fatality percentages for each hit location?

Changes to this basic Hit Point abstraction has ripple effects throughout the entire game system.  Combat, natural healing, magical healing, combat magics and other affects use or manipulate these values within the game world.  I've tried making several non-HP-based systems.   I've not gotten it good enough to be satisfied with, and I've been trying for almost 25 years now.

It's not an easy mechanism to replace, but I think it is time that MMORPGs break its reliance on this RP tradition.  And I believe that the next big challenge for MMORPGs is to find a better model for the human body than the Hit Point model.

Your ideas and opinions are welcome.

agreed.  give attacks of types chances to disable and hinder various areas of the body.  example, leg sweeps can twist ankles or break legs.  chopping downward axe blows can break shoulders or lop off arms, sword thrusts into the gut can cause terrible internal damage and bleeding.  fireballs should heat up or burn off non metal armor leaving the target vulnerable, poisen should shut down the body.

 

tanks could spec to have extra tough joints and resistance to injury as tanks.  instead of hp ping pong healers roles could be to supress pain, remove poinsens, and heal severe injuries between fights (but not during combat).  your dmg dealers would still be that, poisen users or magic throwers that injure and kill efficiently.  

 

theres no reason to use just a raw health based ac/resist healer ping pong match, and we dont need 100 little hitboxes, attacks can be designed to have % chances to do certain things to injure and we can leave some luck to it.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

9/23/13 12:23:26 AM#33
Originally posted by 5Luck
Originally posted by maplestone

You need a way for players to know if they are winning or losing. I've tried a lot of ideas for replacing hp with some other inventory of injuries, but all I've learned from it is the more complexity there is, the less players like it.

Rolemaster taught us that 30 years ago, didn't it? (No offense to RM fans; but RM1 still stands out in my mind as the game that crushed any desire to embrace complexity entirely for the sake of being complex).

"See arcane chart Z21, subsection B on page 213 of an entirely different book."

"Warning: Resolving a critical check can involve consulting up to 13 charts in 4 different books, and estimated time 73 minutes."

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

9/23/13 12:29:51 AM#34
Originally posted by Drakephire
OP, your system of hit location has been implemented before...not only PnP games, but computer games as well. The game I'm speaking of specifically is Battletech.  Hit locations, with each area able to sustain certain amounts of damage before critical components fail. Occasionally a lucky shot will bypass all HP and damage a critical component directly.

See also: Starfleet Battles.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Etherouge

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/09
Posts: 522

9/23/13 12:53:49 AM#35

To change how damage is taken, you also need to change how damage is dealt. When your left arm comes off to an axe, do you go into shock or does the adrenaline keep you swinging with your right arm? Can you still "win" even after incapacitating the foe if your stump of an arm is bleeding out? Is that permanent or can a healer reform a new one? If you die and an ally revives you, I assume you wouldn't be able to fight at full power until your body has some proper time to heal that arm.

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  onlinenow25

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 278

9/23/13 2:21:50 AM#36

Reasons why I think a complicated bloated system to measure HP is nothing more than a complicated bloasted system to measure HP and has no actual value in a MMO.  

 

But this does not mean it can't be used for a different type of game that revolves around survival.

 

  To start language is just a bunch of symbols/artifacts of humans putting meaning behind these symbols/artifacts?  Do you also understand that no matter what symbol is used to represent a numerical value that that does not change it from holding a numerical value?  

 

Example:  Say you have two cookies.  No matter what you call 'two' you still have that same number of cookies.  You could call the number of cookies Blarg, but you still have Blarg cookies.   Hopefully this makes sense.

 

A program revolves around numbers and equations, as such no matter what is done visually everything calculated is done by numbers.  So no matter how complex of a system you come up with you will never be able to escape the fact that everything boils down to how much damage you do, and how much health/life what ever you want to call it you have.

 

Even in games like Street Fighter where its skill based, there are still numbers.  Characters still have different HP values and damage values for attacks.  Nothing escapes Damage and HP/Health when its a computer game, or heck even a PnP game because no matter what you end up calling it its still just Health/HP and damage done/taken which are numerical values you represent change.

 

If the foundation of understanding what is happening in an imaginary setting is done through symbols there is no way to get around putting some sort of symbol to define it.  As such because its a value that increases and decreases its going to be a number no matter what kind of symbol you use to call it something else. 

 

Example.  Pizza = 100.   Fat Fist = 50.   Pizza - Fat Fist = Fat Fist.   Pizza and Fat Fist are there to represent two numerical values.  No matter what they are called you end up with a numerical value symbolized in a different form, in this case words, yet they still hold the same meaning if the equation was 100 - 50 = 50. 

 

Hence no matter what is done you will not and can not escape the fact that damage and health are representations of change which hold a numerical value, and changing the name/symbole of the numerical value will not change it from being a numerical value.

 

 

  Novusod

Novice Member

Joined: 5/30/09
Posts: 860

9/23/13 3:23:19 AM#37

The big issue you are going to run into with rethinking hit points is dealing with One hit deaths. Very few people think One hit deaths are fun especially casual players.

 

I think people would be happier if they didn't remove hit points entirely but just controlled the mudflation of hit points. The 100k HP characters in WoW just an absurdity. People are catching on that it is just a treadmill as you can still killed in the same amount of hits as when you had 5k HP so why inflate it. Do people really buy into this artificial progression.

 

Games like Vindictus do HP correctly. First they didn't inflate the HP to insane pools that have little meaning. Second they created armor destructability. For example if you get hit in the head your helm could break off which lowers your defense so the next time you get hit you take additional damage. It is kind of like hangman. Break the helm, chest, legs, gloves, boots. By the time all your armor is broken you are pretty much dead or just a few HP away from being dead. It is not just a straight HP pool, you have to watch your armor durability as well. This is the ideal that other games should start copying because it is done so well.

 

 

  tupodawg999

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 571

9/23/13 4:40:14 AM#38

I split combat into hit / penetrate / damage and renamed HP as Luck and use Luck points to avoid being hit. Say a mob needs 8 to hit a character and rolls a 10 then the character would expend 3 points of luck to subtract 3 from the mob's score bringing it down to 7 turning the hit into a miss. When your Luck runs out you have to rely on your armor to stop penetration. In this system *all* hits to the actual body are potentially very damaging.

 

(In my amateur system humans have 4-8 HP depending on size up to a max of 12 with various abilities or gear. Mobs do 1-6 points of damage depending on size, penetration and armor and all wounds bleed so you lose 1 HP each turn until the wound is bandaged. Healers "heal" normally except now they are blessings that restore your luck and they also heal / bind the actual wounds - except both characters must be out of combat to do that bit. Assassin type strikes roll luck vs luck and if the assassin wins the target doesn't get to use their luck to deflect the strike and it goes straight through to the armor / damage phase etc).

 

Apart from anything else splitting standard DPS vs HP into hit / penetrate / damage makes it easier to make mobs different even without any clever AI and that means different player tactics for different mobs which makes the fights different e.g.

- slow hitting beetles with a strong shell might be best fought using light armor and a two-handed weapon

- fast hitting (and fast moving) spiders with weak penetration and soft bodies might be best fought in medium armor dual-wielding two fast weapons

etc

  tupodawg999

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 571

9/23/13 5:05:57 AM#39
Originally posted by Mendel

Originally posted by maplestone

You need a way for players to know if they are winning or losing. I've tried a lot of ideas for replacing hp with some other inventory of injuries, but all I've learned from it is the more complexity there is, the less players like it. There may be something clever I've not considered, but personally, I've given up on coming up with alternatives and accepted that on some level, hp will always exist in any game without sudden one-shot death or long strategic turns.

Definitely.  Feedback to the player needs to be simple enough to easily understand.   But the underlying mechanism can be a lot more involved than the simple HP system.

Originally posted by Helleri

                                                                                                                                                                                                    

Multiple bars.  That could be useful, especially to relay information to players, but I don't know if it addresses the underlying simulation.  I'll have to re-read your post in the morning and think about your idea some more.

Originally posted by krage

if a more realism based game were to come out i would like to see bodily damage accumulating over decreasing HP.

The one downside though is the snowball effect from it. Pretty much makes the first few blows the defining outcome for the rest of the battle, once someone is injured it is very unlikely they will win....but ya know what thats ok imo if the game is build around it.

I will tell you what though with such a system the environment, weapon selection, and timing is wayyyyy more important than in traditional systems since it is so unforgiving.

Hit Points are one of the most unrealistic things in RP games.  A system without HPs would probably be seen as much more realistic.  That didn't bother me particularly, as I was wanting to make a fantasy simulator, rather than a game.

You hit on the main problem I've encountered several times -- either the combat goes on forever (especially with low skills involved), the first blow determines the nature of the fight, or the first hit kills.   All too often, one combatant would go from perfectly fine to dead in a single instant.  I don't know how 'quick' combat between two equally equipped and equally skilled opponents 'should' be.   Realism has to allow the insta-kill, but that's not fun to play.   I was aiming for a system that required 3-7 shots before death/incapacitation, but my last effort never quite got there.

Another thing about the combat system in a fantasy game, it needs to allow for a 'heroic' battle where one man beats several opponents.  A lot of systems that work in a 1-on-1 scenario simply fail when faced with a 1-on-2 or worse odds.   A side with 5 shouldn't always be able to win against 4 opponents, with 3 1-on-1 battles fighting defensively, and the 2-on-1 fighting aggressively and just rolling up the opponents

You're also right about the weapons and especially timing, but I think I had those aspects pretty well covered.   When you think about it, a 3"x2"x/5" puncture into the stomach from a sword isn't really any different from a 3"x2"x.5" wound in the same location from any other kind of weapon.  You can factor a lot of the randomness out of the weapon's damage, and have fatigue costs on heavier weapons.

 

"Another thing about the combat system in a fantasy game, it needs to allow for a 'heroic' battle where one man beats several opponents."

 

That's one of the things I wanted. I didn't want a level 20 Aragorn to fight level 20 orcs. I wanted a system where a level 20 Aragorn was potentially killable if 20 standard orcs attacked him at once.

  phumbaba

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 79

9/23/13 6:18:56 AM#40

A long while back I also thought a bit, if there were better ways to do it. No idea, if it would be actually better, but I'll try to outline some aspects of a system that I think might work. As usual, I'm not suggesting any game try implementing anything like it. Just having some fun letting my imagination run wild.

Technical aspects: I assume, the system won't be implementable, if the body is literally divided into multiple hitboxes. However, different bodyparts can be assigned a probability based on range, direction and type of attack. I would assume not that much additional information needs to move. Mostly clientside.

Details: Each bodypart of interest has a probability and also a metric that can as well be visualized as HP. The probabilities could be modified by armor and defense skills. Each HP bar has thresholds that correspond to level and severity of damage and healing it requires. This can be tied to making healing more interactive by giving healer classes a skill to automatically notice damage levels and perhaps suggest a suitable skill (this notification would cause some delay, but I would assume it almost negligible as it wouldn't need other info than just an identifier that it's a certain damage level and a number + it doesn't need to be that often).

Further, dividing healing into specialties like this, also supports different classes being able to heal to different extents. E.g. all classes could be able to discern and mend wounds after battle, but only some classes in battle.

The different HP bars could still be combined to your typical single bar that's always on the UI, if needed. And then perhaps visualize the different body areas with a doll that appears when something is damaged. What happens when a bodypart's HP bar get's empty? Incapasitation for a while or until healed. What happens with big aoe's? Average damage all around.

Too complex? I certainly don't think so.. Too difficult or cumbersome to implement? I don't think that either, but it's very much possible there are technical aspects I'm unable to consider due to lack of knowledge. Would it be more fun? Depends. The average player rushing through the game wouldn't necessarily even notice, but for some, it could make the world somewhat more immersive and interactive.

Anyways, nice topic.

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