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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning: A WAR Worth Fighting For?

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62 posts found
  Hokie

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/04
Posts: 1039

Hey Devs, just so you know. The more you give us to play with, the more we play.

9/20/13 11:21:22 PM#21

VB youre too nice.

 

1)  The number one reason was bad management of the game and I lay that firmly at the feet of Mark Jacobs. I love the man for bringing to life some of the most intense MMO experiences Ive ever had and one of my favorite MMO despite all its flaws and problems. But I think it was his bad decisions that lead to the games downfall.

How much can I say was his fault with certainty, none. This is all conjecture and my opinion and what I could surmise from a game I was, and still, am passionate about. Since he was the top of the Mythic food chain so to speak, he gets to carry the blame.

 

2)  The desync as someone else said. This game had really, really bad optimization at release and for a good six months afterwards. To the point they had to take some features out of the game because the code couldnt be fixed.

This hurt the game pretty badly, the AI and pet pathing was truly borked, to put it nicely. And large battles would crash whole servers, then zones, then groups of players.

 

3)  This is one of Mark biggest follies and in many ways should rank in with #1.

Its where he put his foot in his mouth about how "merging servers was a sign of a MMO failure." He said this after Mythic kept having to add servers.

And just so everyone knows WAR had a pretty damn good launch, and even tho it bled subs its nowhere like what happens today.

Then Wrath of the Lich King released and WAR started bleeding, but not as bad as some might think. I know alot of people whowere dual subbed to WoW and WAR.

And what did Mark do when servers started to lose players and in reality did become ghost towns...he did nothing, thats right not a fucking thing. Because to merge servers would to be to admit his game had failed, by his own definition.

I personally had about 7 friends who said "fuck it, Im out" and went back to WoW full time because of it.

 

4)  Class balance. Here something most people dont know. WAR had (shortly after release) 24 unique classes. Not like WoW where the mage as an example was mirrored on the Horde and the Alliance side. WAR had 24 unique classes. Its one thing I really loved about the game. And as you can imagine it was a bitch to balance.

This cause problems and pissed people off. But guess what? Most people stuck with the game, because they could see the potential if Mythic would just listen.

And guess what happened...? Mythic listened!!

The people would were responsible for class balance/combat/pvp convinced the powers that be to open specific sub forums for "like" class balancing. And opened it to the player base to state why they thought there class was unbalanced and/or why they thought their "like" was over powered.

They even went about it the right way. They said we are going to focus on one group at a time. The first being the Shaman vs the Archmage. And you know what, for the most part people on both sides were being very reasonable. A lot of progress was made, it wasnt about making one class OP it was about making it fair.

It was one of the industry highlights of Dev to player base communication, both group coming together to make the game better for everyone.

And then guess what happened. Mark opened his mouth and said something like"WAR will reach (or increse) is subs by yada, yada, yada, or I will step down."

And all of a sudden this great Dev and player cooperation and communication stopped. As we found out later because the were more or less all focused on releasing WAR to the Korean market.

Fuck fixing it and making it a better game, it became about whoring it out to as many people as they could.

Guess what happened? Mark stepped down. Why? Who really knows. I mean all of this is, like I said, opinion and conjecture. But I personally think the fact that the Koreans didnt want to play a fucking broken game may had something to do with it.

 

But like I said, what do I know.

 

All that negativity I just wrote; I could write five times the amount of what I loved,  found positive, ground breaking, innovative, fun, and down right fucking awesome in the game, much less all the potential I saw in it.

 

I cant talk about it much less write about it without becoming a sad, broken, bitter ex-Warhammer Online Age of Reckoning player. Fuck.

 

 

To Mark if you happen to wander by and read this. Please dont hate me for what I wrote, as Im sure Ive got some or most of it wrong from your perspective. But I wrote what I wrote because that is how I seen it go down and deserved or not, you get to be Atlas, or Jesus if you prefer.

 

 

 

 

"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

  travamars

Novice Member

Joined: 11/14/10
Posts: 452

9/20/13 11:35:44 PM#22
Originally posted by psiic

Sometimes I wonder about the legality of these companies pulling the plug on games.

 

Federal court has ruled time and again in favor of the consumer.

 

1) Digital goods and all rights associated with those goods belong to the consumer.

2) Seller is required by law to provide reasonable access to said digital property.

3) Seller can not impede, infringe, restrict transfer of said digital goods.

 

That being said for a company that is not going out of business to just turn off  a game that I purchased, I have to wonder just how legal that is.

I would think at the very least that if they decide to no longer provide me with access, that they should at the very least have to provide me the server source code so that I can provide my own access.

Your logic does make sense. There should be SOME way to continue to provide what you paid for. But i guess thats where the EULA comes in play.

  Yizle

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/10
Posts: 528

9/20/13 11:43:29 PM#23
The game had a lot of potential and started out pretty good until Mythic and EA kept ruining it with each new patch and "rebalance". I still have my copy of the CE sitting here. Such a shame.
  evilprey

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/12
Posts: 57

9/20/13 11:47:37 PM#24
free to play model will saved for sure this game . In my opinion it will be best free to play on the market much better then Rift
  Yizle

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/10
Posts: 528

9/20/13 11:52:38 PM#25
Originally posted by evilprey
free to play model will saved for sure this game . In my opinion it will be best free to play on the market much better then Rift

Any actual proof of that? Guess not. Not too sure if I want a cash shop in a pvp game.

  skeeter667

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/05
Posts: 55

9/21/13 12:36:09 AM#26
Originally posted by Vladamyre
Originally posted by eric_w66
Let us remember that DAOC wasn't a success, so designing a game based on a game that didn't have success was the first strike against it.

It wasn't a success? It was the 2nd highest population mmorpg durings its prime. Only Everquest had more population the DAoC did back then. You really need to do some research before you open up and toss out some worthless crap.

I'll back this up DAOC was a huge MMO when it launched it didn't start to die till WoW came out.

  beeker255

Novice Member

Joined: 12/21/08
Posts: 364

9/21/13 1:31:10 AM#27
Originally posted by skeeter667
Originally posted by Vladamyre
Originally posted by eric_w66
Let us remember that DAOC wasn't a success, so designing a game based on a game that didn't have success was the first strike against it.

It wasn't a success? It was the 2nd highest population mmorpg durings its prime. Only Everquest had more population the DAoC did back then. You really need to do some research before you open up and toss out some worthless crap.

I'll back this up DAOC was a huge MMO when it launched it didn't start to die till WoW came out.

 

3rd'ed! also lets just say after a decade or so DAOC isn't the one being shut down either. It has survived its predecessor.

  Adamai

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/06/10
Posts: 466

9/21/13 2:57:50 AM#28
Bad game!! Overall good idea just done completely wrong cant believe people are shocked i new war was done for.. You cant close all but one server and expect a game to survive. War died years ago.
  Kabaal

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/02/05
Posts: 2946

Haggis Humper

9/21/13 3:03:57 AM#29
Saw this coming when they started removing subscription lengths at the start of the summer.

Always keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them.

  totrafinn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/16/13
Posts: 3

9/21/13 4:17:11 AM#30

-Horrible engine performance

-Severe class imbalances... Archmages are Gods compared to Shamans and it was never fixed.  And don't even get me started on Bright Wizards or Warrior Priests.

-Too many loading screens, way too many.

-Crafting that wasn't well thought out.

-PVE gear that was terrible compared to stuff you could get in RVR, so no incentive to PVE at all.

 

I thought the Lairs were a cool idea and fun to do in between RVR battles.  I only did one instance, Hunter's Vale, and that was pretty awesome (with the giant bird taking you for a ride) but still not super polished.  Public quests were cool but people quickly stopped doing them because the gear wasn't worth the time.

The zones were unique and had really cool vibes but that only takes you so far, especially when there's no PVE to get into the lore.

 

  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1773

9/21/13 4:39:11 AM#31
Ulthuan is always worth fighting for!

Even tho I hate this game now for taking up the IP for so long, I have to admit that it was it that introduced me to this beautiful IP. Actually it was Dark Omen, but this game sparked the long forgotten love.

Perhaps I will return once to the fair shores...

May Ereth Khial be merciful upon you WAR and Lord Asuryan just. It was nice knowing you.

Gorwe Baranin-Archmage specialising in Ghyran(Main specialisation), Hysh and Azyr(side specialisations).
Sinwe Mithrin-his loyal companion/Swordmaster-friend even.
Cuiwe Carwyn-a Chracian White Lion Noble. Big as fk and truly majestic with that Axe from Nehekhara he has(he is really different from the rest of WLs)
Shadow Walker Maedhrys-Aesanar vagabond. Part of The Vanguard-the first line defence of Ulthuan vs Druchii and all the other stuff.

All of those characters were created exclusively for Warhammer Fantasy and, incindentally, WAR.

Goodbye fair shores! I will remember you!
  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 1979

9/21/13 5:14:05 AM#32
Originally posted by psiic

Sometimes I wonder about the legality of these companies pulling the plug on games.

 

Federal court has ruled time and again in favor of the consumer.

 

1) Digital goods and all rights associated with those goods belong to the consumer.

2) Seller is required by law to provide reasonable access to said digital property.

3) Seller can not impede, infringe, restrict transfer of said digital goods.

 

That being said for a company that is not going out of business to just turn off  a game that I purchased, I have to wonder just how legal that is.

I would think at the very least that if they decide to no longer provide me with access, that they should at the very least have to provide me the server source code so that I can provide my own access.

Sorry to say but at the very most you will get a refund if you demand one, seeing as this is more like a magazine subscription then anything else.

All the above states is that if you really want to sell your Sword of power +4 the company can not take you to court over it. nor that they can arbitrary shut you off from the game. They need a reason to do so. Breaking a verbal agreement is usually viewed as enough from any providers pov but as i said you could take the case to your local consumer watchdog and they in turn could make a case for the trade court. You would most likley win there. But all that would gain you is as i sad A: A refund if the game is shut down or B: Your account restored if you were banned

 

 

Tomas Soapbox

This have been a good conversation

  OG_Zorvan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 646

9/21/13 6:10:55 AM#33
Originally posted by psiic

Sometimes I wonder about the legality of these companies pulling the plug on games.

 

Federal court has ruled time and again in favor of the consumer.

 

1) Digital goods and all rights associated with those goods belong to the consumer.

2) Seller is required by law to provide reasonable access to said digital property.

3) Seller can not impede, infringe, restrict transfer of said digital goods.

 

That being said for a company that is not going out of business to just turn off  a game that I purchased, I have to wonder just how legal that is.

I would think at the very least that if they decide to no longer provide me with access, that they should at the very least have to provide me the server source code so that I can provide my own access.

And what you have pointed out, quite rightly, is why all of these companies now provide a "service" and not a "product". It's how they get away with it, unfortunately.

EA CEO John Riccitiello's on future microtransactions: "When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging."

  Maleus666

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/09
Posts: 58

9/21/13 9:47:25 AM#34
I want my money back once in the box they say that game went on untill 2016.

Go to hell!

  Angzt

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/05/07
Posts: 233

"Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional."(Bob Monkhouse)

9/21/13 10:11:44 AM#35
Originally posted by Eolex

(...)

3.) too much focus on pve and public quests. Your an rvr game from a company that has success doing rvr stuff. Wile im not saying hay make daoc 2.0, they would of been better off making daoc with a warhammer skin. I know a lot of people that feel this way about it.

(...) 

are you saying DAoC had no pve? seriously?

"believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid… and i did it anyway!"

  h0urg1ass

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/05
Posts: 288

9/21/13 10:17:46 AM#36

For those of you who haven't been playing Games Workshop games since the late '80's like myself, I will tell you now that at least half the blame lies squarely at Games Workshop's feet.

They rule their IP with an iron fist and licensing it out comes with more caveats than most IP's.  There's a very high possibility that many of the bad game decisions, such as only having two realms, came directly from GW headquarters.  In fact, I would put money on the possibility that a GW employee was at the Mythic studios during the entire run of the game watching over their shoulders and making "suggestions" the whole time.

GW has a rich and fascinating IP, but they are also one of the most draconian companies I've ever dealt with or bought products from.  BTW, much of this knowledge is coming from the fact that my grandfather used to own/operate a "gaming" store where we lived and GW was by far his biggest headache to have to deal with as a retailer of their products.  He would tell me stories about how they operated at the business level which would make Machiavelli blush.

  Vladamyre

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/03/07
Posts: 241

9/21/13 11:17:37 AM#37
Originally posted by beeker255
Originally posted by skeeter667
Originally posted by Vladamyre
Originally posted by eric_w66
Let us remember that DAOC wasn't a success, so designing a game based on a game that didn't have success was the first strike against it.

It wasn't a success? It was the 2nd highest population mmorpg durings its prime. Only Everquest had more population the DAoC did back then. You really need to do some research before you open up and toss out some worthless crap.

I'll back this up DAOC was a huge MMO when it launched it didn't start to die till WoW came out.

 

3rd'ed! also lets just say after a decade or so DAOC isn't the one being shut down either. It has survived its predecessor.

I forgot to mention this yesterday but after being out for almost 12 years now DAoC is still the best pvp game ever made. You won't find another game with the perfect setup for pvp like DAoC has.

In a world of sharp knives, you would be a spoon.

  arctarus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/26/06
Posts: 2584

9/21/13 11:33:17 AM#38
Originally posted by h0urg1ass

For those of you who haven't been playing Games Workshop games since the late '80's like myself, I will tell you now that at least half the blame lies squarely at Games Workshop's feet.

They rule their IP with an iron fist and licensing it out comes with more caveats than most IP's.  There's a very high possibility that many of the bad game decisions, such as only having two realms, came directly from GW headquarters.  In fact, I would put money on the possibility that a GW employee was at the Mythic studios during the entire run of the game watching over their shoulders and making "suggestions" the whole time.

GW has a rich and fascinating IP, but they are also one of the most draconian companies I've ever dealt with or bought products from.  BTW, much of this knowledge is coming from the fact that my grandfather used to own/operate a "gaming" store where we lived and GW was by far his biggest headache to have to deal with as a retailer of their products.  He would tell me stories about how they operated at the business level which would make Machiavelli blush.

This would have come earlier , not when the game is about to launch.

I firmly blame mythic for all these bad decisions" if you don't have such a big head, don't blame the hat is big ..."

RIP Orc Choppa

  neosparkk

Novice Member

Joined: 2/01/09
Posts: 28

9/21/13 11:41:04 AM#39
I feel so sorry for the players that stuck with it until the very end. Mythic just let the game run on and on, sucking the last of the playerbase's subscription fees. It was basically kept running by a hamster on a wheel, and they had to wait months and beg for announcements and information. It was sad going back to the forums. Not too surprised that they decided to bone these die-hard fans like this.
  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2601

9/21/13 11:52:33 AM#40
I'm personally happy to see this game finally shut down, it's no longer is in the hands of an incompetent developer team. Which means someone else can take another swing at properly creating a good Warhammer MMO.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

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