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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » MMORPGs are not for casual players.

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160 posts found
  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1443

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

9/20/13 3:05:53 PM#101


Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Arclan Let me fill you in on something I assumed everyone knew. Nothing in this life is difficult; you can achieve anything provided you dedicate the time. Being a doctor is not difficult; but getting there is certainly "tedious and time consuming."
I will never achieve orbit, no matter how long I continue to flap my arms...

Brilliant. /sarcasm off


Originally posted by Neo_Viper
The hardest content defines what the "hardcore" can look forward to, and therefore the FINAL game difficulty.


I heard ya the first time and I disagree. But we can continue to spout our positions ad infinitum.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  ray12k

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 479

9/20/13 3:08:26 PM#102
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by ray12k

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by ray12k

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Vunak23

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Vunak23   To many developers catering to casuals rather than using them as a buffer.     
It is a free market. The devs can cater to anyone they want. On the flip side, you can always decide not to play their game.
They can continue to fail as well, you are right it is their decision. 
And they gravitate towards successes that are not necessarily MMOs ... D3, LoL WoT, .... I bet lots of online game devs have switched MMO plans to MOBA plans.  
 doubt it mobas are a very small community. if anything they will make a fps mmo or  ultra violent single player games with small grouping.   But yeah, casual killed the genre.
There are more concurrent MOBA players than there are MMORPG subscribers. Not entirely sure about FPS players, but they seem to trail a bit behind the MOBAs in terms of players.  
wrong lol....  kinda like retarded wrong


DOTA2 has half a million concurrent players on a daily basis. Eve and SWToR each have half a million subscribers, with Eve clocking in at 60k concurrent players on a daily basis. That doesn't even get into LoL's five million concurrent players.

If you're not clear on the term, concurrent means the number of people logged in at the same time. It's usually some portion of the total people playing at game. In Eve's case, that ratio is about 10% of the population. Apply the same ratio to DOTA2, and you get five million players. Apply it to LoL and you get fifty million players.

There are considerably more MOBA players than there are MMORPG players. Those people talk to each other*, they have guilds, discussion boards and community.

* Maybe they just yell at each other. Whatever.

 

p2p mmorpgs have 23 million subs. currently. Then if you bring in the ftp. IT out numbers mobas.  FTPMMO's pretty much own the market at the moment.

lol  has 5 mill concurrent yep. but still not enough to out number mmorpgs yet. Maybe in the future who knows.

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

9/20/13 3:13:15 PM#103


Originally posted by ray12k

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by ray12k

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by ray12k

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Vunak23

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Vunak23   To many developers catering to casuals rather than using them as a buffer.     
It is a free market. The devs can cater to anyone they want. On the flip side, you can always decide not to play their game.
They can continue to fail as well, you are right it is their decision. 
And they gravitate towards successes that are not necessarily MMOs ... D3, LoL WoT, .... I bet lots of online game devs have switched MMO plans to MOBA plans.  
 doubt it mobas are a very small community. if anything they will make a fps mmo or  ultra violent single player games with small grouping.   But yeah, casual killed the genre.
There are more concurrent MOBA players than there are MMORPG subscribers. Not entirely sure about FPS players, but they seem to trail a bit behind the MOBAs in terms of players.  
wrong lol....  kinda like retarded wrong
DOTA2 has half a million concurrent players on a daily basis. Eve and SWToR each have half a million subscribers, with Eve clocking in at 60k concurrent players on a daily basis. That doesn't even get into LoL's five million concurrent players. If you're not clear on the term, concurrent means the number of people logged in at the same time. It's usually some portion of the total people playing at game. In Eve's case, that ratio is about 10% of the population. Apply the same ratio to DOTA2, and you get five million players. Apply it to LoL and you get fifty million players. There are considerably more MOBA players than there are MMORPG players. Those people talk to each other*, they have guilds, discussion boards and community. * Maybe they just yell at each other. Whatever.  
p2p mmorpgs have 23 million subs. currently. Then if you bring in the ftp. IT out numbers mobas.  FTPMMO's pretty much own the market at the moment.

lol  has 5 mill concurrent yep. but still not enough to out number mmorpgs yet. Maybe in the future who knows.




You are terrible at numbers.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  ray12k

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 479

9/20/13 3:17:02 PM#104
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by ray12k

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by ray12k

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by ray12k

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Vunak23

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Vunak23   To many developers catering to casuals rather than using them as a buffer.     
It is a free market. The devs can cater to anyone they want. On the flip side, you can always decide not to play their game.
They can continue to fail as well, you are right it is their decision. 
And they gravitate towards successes that are not necessarily MMOs ... D3, LoL WoT, .... I bet lots of online game devs have switched MMO plans to MOBA plans.  
 doubt it mobas are a very small community. if anything they will make a fps mmo or  ultra violent single player games with small grouping.   But yeah, casual killed the genre.
There are more concurrent MOBA players than there are MMORPG subscribers. Not entirely sure about FPS players, but they seem to trail a bit behind the MOBAs in terms of players.  
wrong lol....  kinda like retarded wrong
DOTA2 has half a million concurrent players on a daily basis. Eve and SWToR each have half a million subscribers, with Eve clocking in at 60k concurrent players on a daily basis. That doesn't even get into LoL's five million concurrent players. If you're not clear on the term, concurrent means the number of people logged in at the same time. It's usually some portion of the total people playing at game. In Eve's case, that ratio is about 10% of the population. Apply the same ratio to DOTA2, and you get five million players. Apply it to LoL and you get fifty million players. There are considerably more MOBA players than there are MMORPG players. Those people talk to each other*, they have guilds, discussion boards and community. * Maybe they just yell at each other. Whatever.  
p2p mmorpgs have 23 million subs. currently. Then if you bring in the ftp. IT out numbers mobas.  FTPMMO's pretty much own the market at the moment.

 

lol  has 5 mill concurrent yep. but still not enough to out number mmorpgs yet. Maybe in the future who knows.




You are terrible at numbers.

 

I have links if you like... Your wrong...

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

9/20/13 3:21:08 PM#105


Originally posted by ray12k

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by ray12k

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by ray12k

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by ray12k

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Vunak23

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Vunak23   To many developers catering to casuals rather than using them as a buffer.     
It is a free market. The devs can cater to anyone they want. On the flip side, you can always decide not to play their game.
They can continue to fail as well, you are right it is their decision. 
And they gravitate towards successes that are not necessarily MMOs ... D3, LoL WoT, .... I bet lots of online game devs have switched MMO plans to MOBA plans.  
 doubt it mobas are a very small community. if anything they will make a fps mmo or  ultra violent single player games with small grouping.   But yeah, casual killed the genre.
There are more concurrent MOBA players than there are MMORPG subscribers. Not entirely sure about FPS players, but they seem to trail a bit behind the MOBAs in terms of players.  
wrong lol....  kinda like retarded wrong
DOTA2 has half a million concurrent players on a daily basis. Eve and SWToR each have half a million subscribers, with Eve clocking in at 60k concurrent players on a daily basis. That doesn't even get into LoL's five million concurrent players. If you're not clear on the term, concurrent means the number of people logged in at the same time. It's usually some portion of the total people playing at game. In Eve's case, that ratio is about 10% of the population. Apply the same ratio to DOTA2, and you get five million players. Apply it to LoL and you get fifty million players. There are considerably more MOBA players than there are MMORPG players. Those people talk to each other*, they have guilds, discussion boards and community. * Maybe they just yell at each other. Whatever.  
p2p mmorpgs have 23 million subs. currently. Then if you bring in the ftp. IT out numbers mobas.  FTPMMO's pretty much own the market at the moment.   lol  has 5 mill concurrent yep. but still not enough to out number mmorpgs yet. Maybe in the future who knows.
You are terrible at numbers.  
I have links if you like... Your wrong...



Oh no, I'm not disputing the number of MMORPG players. You're just terrible at numbers.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Holophonist

Elite Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2049

9/20/13 4:13:50 PM#106
Originally posted by Xssiv

Let's be honest, there was nothing hardcore about old school MMO's, they just required more time and didn't have the quality of life features that we've grown accustomed to. 

 

For some reason, many people choose to blame WoW as a way to deal with the fact that they can't seem to recapture the magic of the old MMO's.  

Unfortunately, the magic wasn't really about the games but more about the concept of being online in a persistent world with thousands of other people.    As soon as everyone and their mother got high-speed internet, online gaming lost a bit of it's luster.  

Wrong. Oldschool MMOs typically didn't hold your hand through every step of the journey. You had to experience the the game for yourself and figure things out on your own. I can't believe how often this lie is thrown out to cover up for WoW's blatant watering down of gameplay. It's not us that's changed, it's the games.

  Holophonist

Elite Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2049

9/20/13 4:20:32 PM#107
Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by Holophonist
Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by Holophonist
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Panther2103
I think that a lot of casual players don't think they are casual, so they try mmorpg games and end up hopping from game to game trying to find one that works for them. I don't think in general any MMORPG is designed to be casual friendly, they take a long time, and a lot of devotion to getting what you want in them, or just doing general things in MMO's take quite a bit longer than a match of Call of Duty or a round of a Football game. 

A lot think they are "hardcore" when they are not, too. The true "hardcores" are found playing the games and beating the hardest content of them, and not crying on forums that nothing is "hardcore" anymore.

One of the most difficult and "hardcore" games ever, SC2, also has a very vocal community that loves whining on forums.

Only the bronze-gold/diamond "hardcore" players are whining. The real hardcore pro people are playing the game all time to whine about the game. Funnily enough those bronze-diamond people have no idea about balance. Just like these "hardcore" MMO players have no idea what difficult is/what an MMO should look like.

I agree that a lot of the people whining are in lower leagues, but that's only because MOST people are in those lower leagues. There are still a surprising amount of masters players who argue about things on forums (myself included, though not all that often). But the fact is that even people in plat and diamond are probably more skilled and "hardcore" than most people who play any mmo.

That's true. Playing a plat/diamond level game in SC2 is like rocket science compared to playing MMOs. MMO players are more on the level of gold league players D:

If that! Seriously... I have friends who used to play SC2 and now they play LoL. Any time they ever load up SC2 and get in a game they don't even remember how to play. Comparing the mechanics in SC2 to any other game (particularly MMOs) is not even close.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20540

9/20/13 4:29:44 PM#108
Originally posted by Arclan


Let me fill you in on something I assumed everyone knew. Nothing in this life is difficult; you can achieve anything provided you dedicate the time. Being a doctor is not difficult; but getting there is certainly "tedious and time consuming."

Really? All the mathematicians who dedicates their lives and failed to prove P=NP (or not equal) would disagree. All the scientists who dedicate their lives to research and never came close to a nobel prize will disagree.

In fact, I doubt you can learn enough infinite dimensional analysis to work in the area even if you dedicated the rest of your life to it.

 

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1443

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

9/20/13 5:08:50 PM#109


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Arclan Let me fill you in on something I assumed everyone knew. Nothing in this life is difficult; you can achieve anything provided you dedicate the time. Being a doctor is not difficult; but getting there is certainly "tedious and time consuming."
Really? All the mathematicians who dedicates their lives and failed to prove P=NP (or not equal) would disagree. All the scientists who dedicate their lives to research and never came close to a nobel prize will disagree.

In fact, I doubt you can learn enough infinite dimensional analysis to work in the area even if you dedicated the rest of your life to it.

 


Utter nonsense. If you think your cognitive ability is a handicap, maybe it is; but don't speak for everyone else.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

9/20/13 5:18:22 PM#110
Originally posted by Arclan

Let me fill you in on something I assumed everyone knew. Nothing in this life is difficult; you can achieve anything provided you dedicate the time. Being a doctor is not difficult; but getting there is certainly "tedious and time consuming."

As someone who worked with some voluntary organisation on child disabilities, this stance is utter garbage.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  c0exist

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/13/13
Posts: 189

9/20/13 5:25:29 PM#111
Originally posted by Holophonist
Originally posted by Xssiv

Let's be honest, there was nothing hardcore about old school MMO's, they just required more time and didn't have the quality of life features that we've grown accustomed to. 

 

For some reason, many people choose to blame WoW as a way to deal with the fact that they can't seem to recapture the magic of the old MMO's.  

Unfortunately, the magic wasn't really about the games but more about the concept of being online in a persistent world with thousands of other people.    As soon as everyone and their mother got high-speed internet, online gaming lost a bit of it's luster.  

Wrong. Oldschool MMOs typically didn't hold your hand through every step of the journey. You had to experience the the game for yourself and figure things out on your own. I can't believe how often this lie is thrown out to cover up for WoW's blatant watering down of gameplay. It's not us that's changed, it's the games.

 Xssiv hardcore is not about fearing for your life at every turn its more about the dedication to your player.  Nothing was handed to you, quests did not give exp.  The only exp you received was from killing something.  Quests were difficult in the fact that they required a group setup and had to be studied to see where to go.  Things took time to accomplish and were very rewarding in the end.  Now people are so spoiled by being able to teleport everywhere; even within cities.  The effort to build up your character is no longer needed because nothing requires dedication anymore.

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

9/20/13 5:28:05 PM#112
Originally posted by c0exist
 

 Xssiv hardcore is not about fearing for your life at every turn its more about the dedication to your player.  Nothing was handed to you, quests did not give exp.  The only exp you received was from killing something.  Quests were difficult in the fact that they required a group setup and had to be studied to see where to go.  Things took time to accomplish and were very rewarding in the end.  Now people are so spoiled by being able to teleport everywhere; even within cities.  The effort to build up your character is no longer needed because nothing requires dedication anymore.

I myself don't go into VIDEO GAMES in search of accomplishment or 'rewards'.

I go into Video games looking for entertainment.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Holophonist

Elite Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2049

9/20/13 5:35:15 PM#113
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by c0exist
 

 Xssiv hardcore is not about fearing for your life at every turn its more about the dedication to your player.  Nothing was handed to you, quests did not give exp.  The only exp you received was from killing something.  Quests were difficult in the fact that they required a group setup and had to be studied to see where to go.  Things took time to accomplish and were very rewarding in the end.  Now people are so spoiled by being able to teleport everywhere; even within cities.  The effort to build up your character is no longer needed because nothing requires dedication anymore.

I myself don't go into VIDEO GAMES in search of accomplishment or 'rewards'.

I go into Video games looking for entertainment.

Well without knowing more about your preferences, most people would probably have no problem labeling you as a "casual" player. It's ok to be a casual player, but just so you know, you're probably getting less out of your games than somebody who is indeed looking for accomplishment, reward, etc. 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20540

9/20/13 6:42:45 PM#114
Originally posted by Arclan

 


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Arclan Let me fill you in on something I assumed everyone knew. Nothing in this life is difficult; you can achieve anything provided you dedicate the time. Being a doctor is not difficult; but getting there is certainly "tedious and time consuming."
Really? All the mathematicians who dedicates their lives and failed to prove P=NP (or not equal) would disagree. All the scientists who dedicate their lives to research and never came close to a nobel prize will disagree.

 

In fact, I doubt you can learn enough infinite dimensional analysis to work in the area even if you dedicated the rest of your life to it.

 


 

Utter nonsense. If you think your cognitive ability is a handicap, maybe it is; but don't speak for everyone else.

well .. i insist to speak for you. If you want to prove me wrong, feel free to prove P=NP (or not equal). BTW, there is a $1M award associated with that problem too, just as an added incentive.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20540

9/20/13 6:44:29 PM#115
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Arclan

Let me fill you in on something I assumed everyone knew. Nothing in this life is difficult; you can achieve anything provided you dedicate the time. Being a doctor is not difficult; but getting there is certainly "tedious and time consuming."

As someone who worked with some voluntary organisation on child disabilities, this stance is utter garbage.

And he would have no proof. I would love to see him try to win a Nobel Prize, or a Field's medal. Heck, I would concede the point if he just go get a PhD in Math from Princeton.

He would spew a lot of his "opinions" but he would not be able to accomplish any true "difficult" things that we can list here.

 

  Holophonist

Elite Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2049

9/20/13 6:45:44 PM#116
Hyperbole aside, I think we can all agree that almost everybody can achieve any GAMING feat that would be available to an MMORPG. The VAST majority of anybody playing WoW could eventually get to the point where they could do super crazy mega high end raids. 
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20540

9/20/13 7:02:52 PM#117
Originally posted by Holophonist
Hyperbole aside, I think we can all agree that almost everybody can achieve any GAMING feat that would be available to an MMORPG. The VAST majority of anybody playing WoW could eventually get to the point where they could do super crazy mega high end raids. 

If so, why did only 2% of the players ever finished Sunwell. It is well known that very few have completed hard mode raid.

In fact, how about world first? By definition, only ONE group can have "world first" of anything. Now tell me how "everyboday can achieve ANY gaming feat" when most players cannot achieve the "world first" feat.

 

  Holophonist

Elite Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2049

9/20/13 7:07:29 PM#118
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Holophonist
Hyperbole aside, I think we can all agree that almost everybody can achieve any GAMING feat that would be available to an MMORPG. The VAST majority of anybody playing WoW could eventually get to the point where they could do super crazy mega high end raids. 

If so, why did only 2% of the players ever finished Sunwell. It is well known that very few have completed hard mode raid.

In fact, how about world first? By definition, only ONE group can have "world first" of anything. Now tell me how "everyboday can achieve ANY gaming feat" when most players cannot achieve the "world first" feat.

 

As other people have said, it's just a matter of time and effort. 2% of people have finished Sunwell... how many tried? And not just tried once, but how many people do you think COULD complete Sunwell if they actually devoted as much time and effort as they had? Hint: it's a hell of a lot more than 2%.

 

World first or server first have literally no place in this discussion. At that point you're competing against other players, not the content itself. Example: it gets more difficult as more people are attempting to do it, so it has nothing to do with how difficult the game itself is.

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

9/20/13 7:59:33 PM#119


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Holophonist Hyperbole aside, I think we can all agree that almost everybody can achieve any GAMING feat that would be available to an MMORPG. The VAST majority of anybody playing WoW could eventually get to the point where they could do super crazy mega high end raids. 
If so, why did only 2% of the players ever finished Sunwell. It is well known that very few have completed hard mode raid.

In fact, how about world first? By definition, only ONE group can have "world first" of anything. Now tell me how "everyboday can achieve ANY gaming feat" when most players cannot achieve the "world first" feat.

 




The only difference between older games like EQ and newer games like WoW is where the time sinks exist. In EQ the time sink was the entire game. In WoW the time sink is in the end game raids.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  ray12k

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 479

9/20/13 8:09:27 PM#120
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Holophonist Hyperbole aside, I think we can all agree that almost everybody can achieve any GAMING feat that would be available to an MMORPG. The VAST majority of anybody playing WoW could eventually get to the point where they could do super crazy mega high end raids. 
If so, why did only 2% of the players ever finished Sunwell. It is well known that very few have completed hard mode raid.

 

In fact, how about world first? By definition, only ONE group can have "world first" of anything. Now tell me how "everyboday can achieve ANY gaming feat" when most players cannot achieve the "world first" feat.

 




The only difference between older games like EQ and newer games like WoW is where the time sinks exist. In EQ the time sink was the entire game. In WoW the time sink is in the end game raids.

 

ah no, past games were more social and role playing. You could actually customize a character and play as you wished. One they put you on the theme park track your going they way the tracks take you.

 

but then again I never played eq I was playing AC1.  I predict next big mmorpg is released on console. Its to the point where gaming is just leaving the pc behind. Good job devs.

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