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General Discussion  » GW2 new content: wrong priorities?

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62 posts found
  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

9/18/13 10:34:08 AM#21
Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by Kenaoshi

GW2 DOES HAVE zerk content, world bosses, as any other mmo, which serve it's purpose - introduce player to group play, but the challenge is out there, for those who learn to master their characters.

 

 

Except they just revamped all the world bosses.  Tequatl more so than the others, but even other ones have gotten more complex and deadly.

But I fought the golem boss, and he was killing people left and right. :/

They're slowly planning on making all the world boss fights more complex.

They've already shown they can make fights more complex, with the F&F dungeon, the Aetherblade dungeon, and the Queen's Gauntlet.

They're finally starting to really work out how to add more strategy to their big fights, and how to make small fights considerably more complex if they want.

 

What I personally find nice about it is that they're doing it without the basic trinity script that trinity based fights all boil down to. I get a kick out of people that claim tank/healer/dps fights require skill when all they are is following a script that was laid out before you or you fail. Don't get me wrong... I've enjoyed a lot of fights in WoW, but once you learned the script that was it... the challenge was gone and it was nothing more than loot-lottery after that.

 

Oderint, dum metuant.

  stevebombsquad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 605

9/18/13 1:58:31 PM#22
Originally posted by Kenaoshi
Originally posted by RebelScum99
Originally posted by Jackdog
by that I guess you are saying it is not for players who want to do the same raids repeatedly hoping to win the roll for a piece of uber gear that will be outdated when the next raid is released. An lets face \the average MMO raid consists of  tank does this, healer stands there and DD stand over in this spot is not terribly complex gameplay.

As opposed to the GW2 boss fights, that involve overtuned boss mobs that one-hit everything because ArenaNet hasn't figured out how to add actual strategy to non-trinity fights.  The end result is a chaotic dodge-and-spam fight that has far less complexity than a WoW-style raid fight., just a lot more chaos.

And hey, GW2 has a lot of people playing it so obviously there is a big market for gamers that are tired of the standard gear grind, trinity-based raiding system.  So more power to them, and it's great for those players who enjoy that.  

But can we at least not try to paint the GW2 endgame like it is some kind of step up from what has come before it?  Or that it requires any more skill or strategy than other MMOs?  Because that simply isn't true.

Heh, another  "I dont play Gw2 let´s talk shit" thread.

Cause you know, filling green bars = skill.

 

Oh please.... Even the EQNext devs were making fun of GW2 PVE combat and begging people not to compare what they are trying to do with what GW2 has. 

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3296

9/18/13 4:22:43 PM#23
lol that would be pretty childish and unprofessional if it were true :)

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  Kenaoshi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/09
Posts: 1009

9/19/13 7:27:48 AM#24
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by Kenaoshi
[snip]

Heh, another  "I dont play Gw2 let´s talk shit" thread.

Cause you know, filling green bars = skill.

 

Oh please.... Even the EQNext devs were making fun of GW2 PVE combat and begging people not to compare what they are trying to do with what GW2 has. 

And have your played EQN combat system? i sure have not 

now: GW2 (10 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
"Bro, do your even fractal?"
Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.

  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

9/19/13 7:35:49 AM#25
Originally posted by Bad.dog
Originally posted by Zapzap

GW2 is made for the ultra casual not for veteran players that play endgame.

 

The game and the content has always been designed for gamehoppers and to maximize short term revenue before these players become bored.   Not to keep people playing.

It is a fine game for what it is. But not something that will attract and keep people who want more complex, thoughtful, lasting or difficult gameplay. A simplistic but fun and well made game made and designed for the masses and the MMO media.

WOW are you ever out to lunch ...there is so much end game to do the average player can't even come close to just doing the pve content , forget trying to wvw  on a regular basis .

 

Point 2 again not even close , what it does is not gate the content so if you miss a two week or even a two month period you can do the new content  but you may have missed the old ....unlike the old dungeon run games where you had to do dungeon A 30 times to do dungeon B 45 times to do dungeon C 60 times ( that's not content that's lazy ass trash development to keep a moron busy chasing  carrots on a stick)

 

I'm sorry but I haven't played  a complex thoughtful long lasting or difficult mmo since I started playing them in 2001 ....I sure hope your dream of difficulty isn't an instanced dungeon with a tank , an off tank ,three healers and 5 dps  doing a modern day version of "Simon Says" Until a game comes out with  the AI  smart enough to never be beaten twice by the same tactic or being as unpredictable as a skilled human opponent then complex and difficult just isn't something seen in todays mmo

 

No, he's right on the money

GW2 is the perfect game for the casual player

This game is not for players who want in depth crafting or endgame

  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 984

9/19/13 7:44:18 AM#26
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by Kenaoshi

GW2 DOES HAVE zerk content, world bosses, as any other mmo, which serve it's purpose - introduce player to group play, but the challenge is out there, for those who learn to master their characters.

 

 

Except they just revamped all the world bosses.  Tequatl more so than the others, but even other ones have gotten more complex and deadly.

But I fought the golem boss, and he was killing people left and right. :/

They're slowly planning on making all the world boss fights more complex.

They've already shown they can make fights more complex, with the F&F dungeon, the Aetherblade dungeon, and the Queen's Gauntlet.

They're finally starting to really work out how to add more strategy to their big fights, and how to make small fights considerably more complex if they want.

 

What I personally find nice about it is that they're doing it without the basic trinity script that trinity based fights all boil down to. I get a kick out of people that claim tank/healer/dps fights require skill when all they are is following a script that was laid out before you or you fail. Don't get me wrong... I've enjoyed a lot of fights in WoW, but once you learned the script that was it... the challenge was gone and it was nothing more than loot-lottery after that.

 

Zerging and only dps does not require more skill than classical trinity. I'm not even talking about matter of taste here but praising GW2 combat makes me laughing my arse off.

  IPolygon

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/11
Posts: 702

9/19/13 7:49:27 AM#27

I'd prefer much more stories told via DEs in the current maps and DEs to trigger mostly based on other smaller events that occur from time to time, but not on a timer, over new maps being added. Spread the populace!

GW2 already got a huge landmass and a lot of content, but imo it feels very generic because everything/most of it is triggered by a timer. I know you cannot fill the world with fresh and original content that doesn't ever repeat, but I'd really like the addition of sandbox elements in the game. By that I don't mean reconstruction of the world, but rather AIs that start thinking a bit and taking actions that are not all scripted but determined by dynamics in the game.

I feel much potential is lost due to the conservative approach ANet is taking, but this game is still young and got a long journey ahead.

  botrytis

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2516

9/19/13 7:50:37 AM#28
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by Bad.dog
Originally posted by Zapzap

GW2 is made for the ultra casual not for veteran players that play endgame.

 

The game and the content has always been designed for gamehoppers and to maximize short term revenue before these players become bored.   Not to keep people playing.

It is a fine game for what it is. But not something that will attract and keep people who want more complex, thoughtful, lasting or difficult gameplay. A simplistic but fun and well made game made and designed for the masses and the MMO media.

WOW are you ever out to lunch ...there is so much end game to do the average player can't even come close to just doing the pve content , forget trying to wvw  on a regular basis .

 

Point 2 again not even close , what it does is not gate the content so if you miss a two week or even a two month period you can do the new content  but you may have missed the old ....unlike the old dungeon run games where you had to do dungeon A 30 times to do dungeon B 45 times to do dungeon C 60 times ( that's not content that's lazy ass trash development to keep a moron busy chasing  carrots on a stick)

 

I'm sorry but I haven't played  a complex thoughtful long lasting or difficult mmo since I started playing them in 2001 ....I sure hope your dream of difficulty isn't an instanced dungeon with a tank , an off tank ,three healers and 5 dps  doing a modern day version of "Simon Says" Until a game comes out with  the AI  smart enough to never be beaten twice by the same tactic or being as unpredictable as a skilled human opponent then complex and difficult just isn't something seen in todays mmo

 

No, he's right on the money

GW2 is the perfect game for the casual player

This game is not for players who want in depth crafting or endgame

As I said, END GAME is an OXYMORON for an MMO. It is just a little carrot to keep people, who have actually finished the game, interested in it. I am really starting to believe that. Rift with it's continual addition of RAID Dungeons to just up the armor, etc a little is ridiculous.

 

GW2 is a good game for everyone.

 

Crafting is changing as well. So unless you have tried it recently, you really can't comment accurately about it anymore.

 

The game is changing - the bosses are getting harder requiring more coordination (with out the Trinity - YEAH!!!). I can't wait to see the next part of the map they will expose to us - Ring of Fire or more Maguuma Jungle or Crystal Desert or..... There is so much in this game.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Kenaoshi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/09
Posts: 1009

9/19/13 8:28:49 AM#29
Originally posted by Wiha
[snip] 

Zerging and only dps does not require more skill than classical trinity. I'm not even talking about matter of taste here but praising GW2 combat makes me laughing my arse off.

And thats MORE of WRONG assumptions of you people that dont play the game.

Again there are zerg content, as any mmo have, but there are also content there requires more of player coordination (AGAIN: COE, ARAH, Fractals).  

now: GW2 (10 80s).
Dark Souls 2.
future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
"Bro, do your even fractal?"
Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.

  botrytis

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2516

9/19/13 8:37:11 AM#30
Originally posted by Wiha

 

 

Zerging and only dps does not require more skill than classical trinity. I'm not even talking about matter of taste here but praising GW2 combat makes me laughing my arse off.

LOL - I guess you DEFINITELY have not played Recently. Zerging in WvWvW is not really present as much any more since there are more capture points. A coordinated group can co more than ANY zerg now.

 

Most of the world bosses will not be killed by mindless zergining anymore.

 

So, as I said, you are entitled to your opinion albeit very wrong and clueless. Remember, even RAIDS in RIFT and WoW had many zerging elements also.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 984

9/19/13 9:39:05 AM#31
Originally posted by Kenaoshi
Originally posted by Wiha
[snip] 

Zerging and only dps does not require more skill than classical trinity. I'm not even talking about matter of taste here but praising GW2 combat makes me laughing my arse off.

And thats MORE of WRONG assumptions of you people that dont play the game.

Again there are zerg content, as any mmo have, but there are also content there requires more of player coordination (AGAIN: COE, ARAH, Fractals).  

I have 2 level 80 chars (also max crafters) and I really haven't played recently but last time I played it did not require brains imo. It was just spam and kiting while getting aggro. To each his own and GW2 is not my game I guess. Au revoir.

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2680

9/19/13 4:24:31 PM#32
Originally posted by Jackdog
Originally posted by RebelScum99

But can we at least not try to paint the GW2 endgame like it is some kind of step up from what has come before it?  Or that it requires any more skill or strategy than other MMOs?  Because that simply isn't true

 

You need to tell a good gaming buddy of mine that,. He hates GW2 because he  he can't stand in one spot with his mage and spam ranged spells and GW2 makes him have to dodge. His hand eye co ordiantion even makes jumping puzzles difficult for him. On the other hand he has no difficulty with most MMOs because there is no way to avoid and attack other than maybe an interrupt.  Even my Guardian tank use dodge because one of his traits does a minor group HOT when he dodges. My mesmer pops a clone up when he dodges and my Elementalist would be sushi if he stood in one place in a fight. One of the reasons I love GW2 is I can at least make use of my old circle strafing skills from my FPS days. Comes in handy as well as dodging behind a mob just before it unleashes a power attack as I do with my  Necro when she is running as a well specced necro

But  I guess you find it a real challenge to choose tank/healer/DPS at chracter creation then follow the breadcrumb trail for the first 50 - 80 lvls so you can get to raids that you do over and over until you manage toi win a roll on piece of gear that will be outdated as soon as the next raid is released. Enjoy if you think doing  that is really difficult. If I want a difficult game I play Chess, MMOs are just to kill time, anyone that considers any of them a difficult game is pretty pathetic in my opinion.  I had my daughter kicking butt in DAoC RvR by the time she was 11

Rebelscum is right. GW2 is just easy mode. Dodging and the whole non-trinity thing makes dungeons boring and less strategic. I fail to see how GW2's dungeons are any more complex than your traditional MMO dungeons/raids.

Also have you played AQ, Naxx, Sunwell in WoW. Those things required skill and strategy and were extremely difficult. Nothing in GW2 comes even close the difficulty of those raids. Even heroic raids now in WoW are 100 times more dificult and more varied than GW2 dungeons. 

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  stevebombsquad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 605

9/19/13 7:34:42 PM#33
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Wiha

 

 

Zerging and only dps does not require more skill than classical trinity. I'm not even talking about matter of taste here but praising GW2 combat makes me laughing my arse off.

LOL - I guess you DEFINITELY have not played Recently. Zerging in WvWvW is not really present as much any more since there are more capture points. A coordinated group can co more than ANY zerg now.

 

Most of the world bosses will not be killed by mindless zergining anymore.

 

So, as I said, you are entitled to your opinion albeit very wrong and clueless. Remember, even RAIDS in RIFT and WoW had many zerging elements also.

I would have to say that you haven't raided much. Yep.... that is quite obvious..... 

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  Beelzebobbie

Elite Member

Joined: 1/03/09
Posts: 417

If DaoC was so fun why don't you just play it?

9/19/13 7:42:32 PM#34
Originally posted by Siphaed
Originally posted by Zapzap

GW2 is made for the ultra casual not for veteran players that play endgame.

 

The game and the content has always been designed for gamehoppers and to maximize short term revenue before these players become bored.   Not to keep people playing.

It is a fine game for what it is. But not something that will attract and keep people who want more complex, thoughtful, lasting or difficult gameplay. A simplistic but fun and well made game made and designed for the masses and the MMO media.

You've got to be totally kidding with me right now...right?  

 

With every patch over the past 3-4 patches has the content given harder completion materials that require dedicated time and effort that casuals wish they had.   To start with there is the Queen's Gauntlet.   Clockwork Chaos wasn't too challenging, but the build up content required to even get into Scarlet's Funhouse was ...not casual.   And with this last patch it stacked double extreme content:  Ascended Weapons with a bump to 500 crafting (requiring at the very least 60-80g worth of material investment AND 2 weeks time limitation on crafting specific materials) as well as the Super Adventure Box's tribulation modes and World #2.

 

What is tomorrow's (technically today since it's past midnight) patch going to hold?    TeQuatl is being turned into a complex, cooperation-required 80 man raid event instead of being the 6 minute loot piñata it used to be.  And WvW is getting a zerg splitting mechanic that also doubles as a process for which to complicate WvW on a grander scale.  

 

 

Word

  monarc333

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9/19/13 7:50:15 PM#35
Originally posted by Bad.dog
Originally posted by Zapzap

GW2 is made for the ultra casual not for veteran players that play endgame.

 

The game and the content has always been designed for gamehoppers and to maximize short term revenue before these players become bored.   Not to keep people playing.

It is a fine game for what it is. But not something that will attract and keep people who want more complex, thoughtful, lasting or difficult gameplay. A simplistic but fun and well made game made and designed for the masses and the MMO media.

WOW are you ever out to lunch ...there is so much end game to do the average player can't even come close to just doing the pve content , forget trying to wvw  on a regular basis .

 

Point 2 again not even close , what it does is not gate the content so if you miss a two week or even a two month period you can do the new content  but you may have missed the old ....unlike the old dungeon run games where you had to do dungeon A 30 times to do dungeon B 45 times to do dungeon C 60 times ( that's not content that's lazy ass trash development to keep a moron busy chasing  carrots on a stick)

 

I'm sorry but I haven't played  a complex thoughtful long lasting or difficult mmo since I started playing them in 2001 ....I sure hope your dream of difficulty isn't an instanced dungeon with a tank , an off tank ,three healers and 5 dps  doing a modern day version of "Simon Says" Until a game comes out with  the AI  smart enough to never be beaten twice by the same tactic or being as unpredictable as a skilled human opponent then complex and difficult just isn't something seen in todays mmo

Hahaha this comment was great and so true. 

  PaRoXiTiC

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9/19/13 8:01:43 PM#36
This comment is why I stopped playing. The content updates are very lacking. No meaning whatsoever.
  Volkon

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Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

9/20/13 8:12:04 AM#37
Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC
This comment is why I stopped playing. The content updates are very lacking. No meaning whatsoever.

 

"Tequatl becoming stronger (and Rox being present) are both tied into the overall LW story. More will be revealed later." - Bobby Stein

 

The update, aside from adding a vastly improved open world boss fight, does indeed have meaning as part of the Living World story line as a whole. Things may feel different with the information release when compared to other games, but that's because of the 2 week delivery cycle. The difference is similar to that between watching a weekly television series or seeing a movie at the theater and waiting six months for the sequel. They don't need to cram each release with tons of new information, just enough to lead to the next one.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  fivoroth

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Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2680

9/20/13 12:20:56 PM#38
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC
This comment is why I stopped playing. The content updates are very lacking. No meaning whatsoever.

 

"Tequatl becoming stronger (and Rox being present) are both tied into the overall LW story. More will be revealed later." - Bobby Stein

 

The update, aside from adding a vastly improved open world boss fight, does indeed have meaning as part of the Living World story line as a whole. Things may feel different with the information release when compared to other games, but that's because of the 2 week delivery cycle. The difference is similar to that between watching a weekly television series or seeing a movie at the theater and waiting six months for the sequel. They don't need to cram each release with tons of new information, just enough to lead to the next one.

The major difference is that if I miss an episode of my favourite tv series I can rewatch it later on. In contrast if I missed a living story patch then I will never experience that content again which makes for one disjointed story if you don't follow this religiously.

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  IPolygon

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/11
Posts: 702

9/22/13 5:12:59 AM#39
True that. They need to add story books or something to make it possible for players to replay the story (just like in most other games).
  TalulaRose

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Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

9/22/13 3:43:01 PM#40

Funny thing about Teq 2.0.  The anti-raid crowd cannot beat him and only a few have the ability to work with others to defeat it.

 

And adding a spvp map to the WvW map has done nothing to break zergs. Other than T1 the rest of the match-ups has the server with the best coverage and more WvW players getting +150 to all stats.

 

 

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