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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Elder Scrolls Online: Crafting Must Meet Big Expectations

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42 posts found
  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

9/17/13 5:41:50 PM#21
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by rygard49
But to require that I gather a large group of other players together to kill monsters for hours at a time for a chance that the material will drop randomly and another chance that I'll roll appropriately high enough to win said material... that simply kills my desire to craft.

 

 

hmmm I can't say I share that opinion.

Though my thought is that crafters should pay "Adventurers" for these high end mats that you would then turn into rare weapons and then charge for a profit.

In Lineage 2 people used to farm mats in certain areas and set up shop to sell to players who wanted these mats. They woudl make money and the crafters would make some amazing items with them.

I wouldn't have any problem with Adventurers going out and finding those rare materials to bring back to me. That makes perfect sense. But in a lot of these games the recipes and materials are soulbound to whomever loots them.

That's what I'd like to see broken away from in ESO, is the requirement that I participate in raiding myself if I want to have a chance to be a high level craftsman.

  TaraSojourn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/07/13
Posts: 5

9/17/13 6:21:41 PM#22

Everyone is talking about how crafting in other mmos is a money pit and was a waste of time. and I say.......Starwars Galaxy folks. STARWARS FIGGIN GALAXY!!!!

Come on, I know the game ended 2 years ago, but ppl still have to remember it. SWG had the most innovative, involved and robust crafting system since crafting first showed up in online gaming. It created one of the best, player driven, game economies ever. Heck! Crafting was a friggin CLASS!!! When done right and given the same attention that developers give combat and exploration, crafting can be the reason tons of players (many the casual kind) will come back to a game over and over.

I so wish, the ESO developers had looked around and asked what players, like myself, would have wanted to see in a crafting system. I am sure, hands down, the response would have been to use the SWG model.

  Deivos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1703

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

9/17/13 6:26:53 PM#23
I'd reference Saga of Ryzom as having one of the better crafting systems in an MMO too.

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

  mech4221

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/13
Posts: 33

9/17/13 6:48:24 PM#24
Originally posted by Deivos
I'd reference Saga of Ryzom as having one of the better crafting systems in an MMO too.

I'd have to vote swg,ryzom and wurm for best/most engaging crafting.  I hear good things about crafting in Eve too, but haven't played. Afk crafting ( lotro,rift ) and mini-game based craftin (eq2, vanguard) just don't interest me as much as a good, research based system.  Low level items (nails) should be used in higher level items(boat) as well.  This helps give lower lil crafters a market.  Also mats with only 2 quality levels (normal and high-quality) are getting old. Be nice to see at least 5 or 6 quality Levels for a change.

  Bigmamajama

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 206

9/17/13 6:56:56 PM#25

I'm waiting for someone to make a crafting system that didn't involve massive repetition regardless how complex it is (say FF14) its still based on insane amounts of repetitiveness to level.

I would prefer a crafting system that involved crafting and harvesting thousands of less items to achieve greatness and that instead relied more on discovery of ingredients through exploration and creation.

  Abdar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/20/04
Posts: 395

9/17/13 7:24:23 PM#26
Originally posted by TaraSojourn

Everyone is talking about how crafting in other mmos is a money pit and was a waste of time. and I say.......Starwars Galaxy folks. STARWARS FIGGIN GALAXY!!!!

Come on, I know the game ended 2 years ago, but ppl still have to remember it. SWG had the most innovative, involved and robust crafting system since crafting first showed up in online gaming. It created one of the best, player driven, game economies ever. Heck! Crafting was a friggin CLASS!!! When done right and given the same attention that developers give combat and exploration, crafting can be the reason tons of players (many the casual kind) will come back to a game over and over.

I so wish, the ESO developers had looked around and asked what players, like myself, would have wanted to see in a crafting system. I am sure, hands down, the response would have been to use the SWG model.

 

This ^^  that games crafting (and gathering) were the best I've ever played.
 
  rahj83

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/09
Posts: 77

"Nothing is permanent, not even death."

9/17/13 8:09:27 PM#27
Crafting...without repetition? You know many blacksmiths or tailors in real life? Probably not. Know why? Because it's repeating the same thing over and over again. That's the only way you get the skills. It's boring, it's time consuming...it does not appeal to most people of the instant gratification crowd. Easier to just buy stuff already made, right?

Real life is not much different than an mmorpg...

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17236

9/17/13 8:30:49 PM#28
Originally posted by rygard49
 

I wouldn't have any problem with Adventurers going out and finding those rare materials to bring back to me. That makes perfect sense. But in a lot of these games the recipes and materials are soulbound to whomever loots them.

That's what I'd like to see broken away from in ESO, is the requirement that I participate in raiding myself if I want to have a chance to be a high level craftsman.

Yeah, you see, that's the problem with today's games. Makes me pissed.

As a the poster a few posts above said, "Lineage 2 crafting".

You see (and this is also going to be aimed at Torvaldyr) in lineage 2 you could go out and gather mats, you could hire people to get mats, you could buy mats off of players who were farming a particular area AND gear dropped from raids. Same gear that these mats made.

Whaaaaaaaa!!!!!

Yeah I know right? Blows the mind.

How did they do it?

Gear, recipes, "whatever" were not bind on equip. You could go out and raid the toughest dragons (which took an alliance and probably more) and get their drops and sell them to anyone would could afford them. Including the rare drops.

Raiding a boss could gear up several players.

So why craft when gear that could be dropped and  wasn't bind on equip? Simple, they had a solution that removed gear from the game.

Now, I'm not saying that games have to introduce this particular system but a system to remove gear is needed otherwise crafters aren't needed.

In Lineage 2 you could enchant your armor and weapons (and jewelery) to something like +16.

Anything up to +3 was safe. Anything after that had a chance to break your item and you'd get some crystals back that were less than the crystals used to make the item. At least as memory servers.

So people wanted the most powerful gear and they would buy enchanted scrolls, farm them, etc and they would often take the chance.

That's how I made my money, I would figure out the best weapons in the game and buy as many as I could afford "plus" a little extra.

people would destroy their items, buy mine and I would repeat the process.

So items were always being taken out of the game by that one person who thought "hmmmm, maybe +12" and then they would need to replace it.

All they need is to remove gear from the game. Maye the lineage 2 way, maybe it degrades over time, maybe in order to reinforce it you need to salvage a similar item, maybe making a new item allows for the salvaging of lesser items.

Make it so that not everyone gets a piece of gear when the raid happens or that "everyone gets a piece of gear but gear drops are rare" (yeah I can hear the screaming now) and make so you always want a crafter to alter, repair, upgrade your gear.

This will work in a pvp or a pve game.

As far as having only powerful guilds controlling the supply A, I have no problem with this but, B, just make it so that many mats themselves can be gotten and sold by anyone and crafters can make great gear from it. They might hire a guild or a powerful party to get the "heart of a Syvlandragonwyrmslimething" but I'm ok with that. Or C, smaller guilds join forces so that they can attain these mats.

 

 

  jbombard

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/06/08
Posts: 466

9/17/13 9:17:52 PM#29
While crafting was a big part of ES games, it was always optional.  If you enjoyed it you could do it, if you enjoyed getting your gear from exploring the world and killing stuff, or stealing stuff, you could do that too.  That is what defines an Elder Scroll games, freedom.  If you make it so that crafting is how you get the best gear then you take away that freedom, and what you are playing is no longer an Elder Scroll games but some niche crafting game.  
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17236

9/17/13 9:55:07 PM#30
Originally posted by jbombard
While crafting was a big part of ES games, it was always optional.  If you enjoyed it you could do it, if you enjoyed getting your gear from exploring the world and killing stuff, or stealing stuff, you could do that too.  That is what defines an Elder Scroll games, freedom.  If you make it so that crafting is how you get the best gear then you take away that freedom, and what you are playing is no longer an Elder Scroll games but some niche crafting game.  

While I agree with you in spirit, the problem here is that this is a multi-player game and an mmo as well.

MMo's usually have an economy.

This isn't just an Elder Scrolls game. It's an Elder Scrolls MMO. So it makes sense that certain accomodations must be made. As one of the developers pointed out, and he's correct, each elder scrolls game had differences from those that went before.

This is just one more difference.

I'm not a crafter and as long as I can buy my gear from players I'm good to go. And if I have a crafter in my guild (and why wouldn't I?) then I'm not too concerned.

It essentially means that you might get certain pieces of gear but you might have to bargain with other players to enhance that gear.

for an mmo I think that is acceptable, no matter the IP.

to put it in perspective, in Morrowind npc's would enchant your gear.You couldn't do it yourself even if you wanted to. Now instead of npc's you have players that can enhance gear. Only difference is that they are your guild mates instead of npc's.

 

  jbombard

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/06/08
Posts: 466

9/17/13 11:03:00 PM#31
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by jbombard
While crafting was a big part of ES games, it was always optional.  If you enjoyed it you could do it, if you enjoyed getting your gear from exploring the world and killing stuff, or stealing stuff, you could do that too.  That is what defines an Elder Scroll games, freedom.  If you make it so that crafting is how you get the best gear then you take away that freedom, and what you are playing is no longer an Elder Scroll games but some niche crafting game.  

While I agree with you in spirit, the problem here is that this is a multi-player game and an mmo as well.

MMo's usually have an economy.

This isn't just an Elder Scrolls game. It's an Elder Scrolls MMO. So it makes sense that certain accomodations must be made. As one of the developers pointed out, and he's correct, each elder scrolls game had differences from those that went before.

This is just one more difference.

I'm not a crafter and as long as I can buy my gear from players I'm good to go. And if I have a crafter in my guild (and why wouldn't I?) then I'm not too concerned.

It essentially means that you might get certain pieces of gear but you might have to bargain with other players to enhance that gear.

for an mmo I think that is acceptable, no matter the IP.

to put it in perspective, in Morrowind npc's would enchant your gear.You couldn't do it yourself even if you wanted to. Now instead of npc's you have players that can enhance gear. Only difference is that they are your guild mates instead of npc's.

 

 

If crafting is on par with gear drops I would be happy.  In a real sandbox crafting can provide so much more than just gear.  I don't think removing gear from the game is a small change, it is a game destroying change.  Gear is a big part of providing the drive to get out there and explore.  In ES games you can find really great gear out in the world, and you still end up wearing crafted gear because they are equivalent, but you also explore the world because there are a lot of unique and powerful gear out there as wall.

  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

9/17/13 11:20:28 PM#32
Originally posted by potlaki

crafting in skyrim was easy but I only crafted cause I had a money mod.

ill try it in ESO but in GW2 and FFXIV it did not work.

in guild wars 2 it took too long or you had to be very good at it and in

final fantacy online new one I just wasted my money.

Given that I have all crafting professions in FFXIv to lv30ish, I can with confidence say that the problem in this case is not FFXIV, but your inability to play the market.

  Greyhawk4x4

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/26/06
Posts: 475

-Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. - Ben Franklin

9/18/13 12:17:27 AM#33
Originally posted by rygard49

MMO crafting has always been a meaningless money sink until the very last skill points were gained. I hate that.

Do you want to know how I know that you never crafted in Star Wars Galaxies?


  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1088

9/18/13 2:15:20 AM#34

Sovrath, I personally don't like that style breakeage system, would go more for a degrading over time, with the caveat that it couldn't be repaired to full strength by someone of lower skill than it took to make it.   The top craftspeople would be sought after.  If you implementated decreasing efficiency of the weapon with degradation, and  perhaps chance for breakage at very low levels, folks would put those weapons away until they could get them fixed.  And you could have drops of great gear, that was in such bad shaped that they'd have to be fixed before any realistic use.

 

Crafting is one of those areas where I think the old line games had way greater depth and creativity.  The UO/SWG/Vanguard crafting modes had some great ideas in there.

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 994

9/18/13 2:47:51 AM#35
I really love crafting and usually roll alts only for crafting. What I really miss is an MMO where I can build my house from scratch and grow something in my garden if I want. MMOs with only killing stuff are dead boring imo and good crfting mechanics add quite a lot.
  BJWyler

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/11
Posts: 4

9/18/13 8:09:40 AM#36

Sorry, I would have to disagree in part.

Firstly, I do agree that a game should have an interesting crafting system for those players who enjoy that sort of thing. Just like games should have housing, mini-games and the like. There are many players who enjoy those aspects of a game. However, there are many who do not, and I am one of them.

The original Guild Wars was all the crafting I needed in a game. You are right in that times have changed for MMOs and games in general, and part of that is allowing the freedom for players to play the parts of the game they enjoy the most - and that should include avoiding those "side games" that they don't. No one should be forced to craft in a game nor go to a crafter in order to be able to progress in said game. To me crafting is as exciting and interesting as watching paint dry, while keeping an eye for the water in my pot to boil. I should not be forced to participate in it in a game - either as a maker or a buyer.

My character has no interest in having to sew closed the holes ripped in his clothing, and I have no interest as a player in performing tedious, boring activities such as that. I have enough tedious, boring duties in my Real Life - I have no desire to participate in it in my forms of entertainment. I want to go out and explore and stick the pointy end of my sword into things that have a red bar above their heads. I do not want to have to worry about crafting nor be forced to deal with a crafter in game.

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

9/18/13 10:12:14 AM#37
Originally posted by Greyhawk4x4
Originally posted by rygard49

MMO crafting has always been a meaningless money sink until the very last skill points were gained. I hate that.

Do you want to know how I know that you never crafted in Star Wars Galaxies?

You're right, I never did. Apologies for using the word 'always' instead of the word 'typically'.

Dark Age of Camelot was another where most if not all crafting levels were useful.

  Khaladahr

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/13
Posts: 1

9/18/13 10:19:09 AM#38
The main problem or concern I have with a player driven economy is price gouging. While players should be compensated for their time and effort, I have seen all too often greed take over the prices. instead of charging reasonable prices, players want to become billionaires overnight by charging multi-million gold piece prices for gear that are only worth 50k or 60k. Can anyone say OPEC?
  Arndush

Novice Member

Joined: 10/27/09
Posts: 309

9/18/13 12:28:51 PM#39
I've tried to craft in just about every MMO I've played, and Skyrim. It just doesn't do anything for me. It's been mildly amusing, but never anything worth me sinking serious time into. However, I do love exploring. So, I've become a bit a material collector for my guild's crafters. Someone needs to go get the mats while they are crafting, might as well be me. In fact, I'm rather sad my Guild didn't stick around in GW2. I have two mule characters with enough ore and cloth to level armor or weaponsmithing, and tailoring damn near to max. /shrug.
  Dr_Negative

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 47

9/18/13 5:05:04 PM#40
Originally posted by rygard49

Dark Age of Camelot was another where most if not all crafting levels were useful.

Especially when you consider its leveling curve back in the day. One could spend weeks in the level 20's for example, thus buying a player crafted item at that level was a great investment.

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