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News & Features Discussion  » [General Article] Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn: Review in Progress #3

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64 posts found
  User Deleted
9/14/13 7:12:25 AM#41

I disagree with the article in that 4 players is great for small group encounters. It's easier to coordinate and makes each player's actions have more impact. I feel with 5, being a damage dealer, you generally didn't feel like you did that much in the group and the encounters I found harder to recover from when mistakes occur. I believe 4 is a much better for a group and has more of a natural flow and I feel players have an easier time picking up after each other.

  SagaSoluna

Novice Member

Joined: 9/01/13
Posts: 14

9/14/13 7:58:16 AM#42

I love how as a Tank, i am blamed for everything even if it is not my fault.

For instance.

There is some fights (Ifrit hard Mode just to name one) that absolutely REQUIRE that the tank stuns/interrupt a specific attack or mechanic, so that the party can actually survive.

However, to make it actually challenging, they made it so that every time you use a stun move the boss builds up a resistance to it for a certain amount of time.

But here are the Dragoons and other tanks spamming stun moves as part of their combos as often as they can, making the boss resist my attempts to stop that deadly spell/mechanic, and even after being told a couple times they continue to do so and then ask why did they die.

Guess who gets then blamed when the bosses wtfpwn the party?

And this is just an example, others being the mark ignoring, dps crazed DD or the healer that refuses to stop standing in the fire cause he wants to cast that one more spell before moving and then gets 1 shotted.

All of this is the tank´s fault as well, and then they wonder why there´s so few of us around.

We are busy playing with friends and guildies, so that we may enjoy a dungeon run without being called out for stuff we did not even do on a daily basis.

  f0dell54

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/12
Posts: 311

Sanity....
It's for the weak.

9/14/13 8:54:36 AM#43
Originally posted by mbd1968
Originally posted by Shadanwolf
I'm waiting for information on the addition of FRONTLINE.

Anti-flea treatment, is that for the pet class?

It's a calming potion for all types of beasts.

  THEchad88

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/27/10
Posts: 38

Confusing use of time...(311 song lyric)

9/14/13 9:04:03 AM#44
Originally posted by Tsumoro

People do not like the responsibility of playing a tank or healer. Specifically because the hostility that has been adopted by MMO players. I play a tank, rolling in as a Paladin currently tanking is fairly easy. 

However the DPS mentality has carried over from over MMO's to this one. A lot of MMO solo players like DPS because they can divorce themselves from the other people in the game and get on and do their own stuff. As such I have many DPS join my group that FAIL to speak. I speak to these people, tell them what I would like them to do to ensure a nice swift and safe run but they do not read, they do not react. Only when we wipe do they react to which is toxic at the best of times. 

Of course I remind them that I had spoke earlier informing what they needed to do, but of course, it isn't a DPS issue it's a 'Tank' or 'Healer' issue. I have literally had people say to me "You're the tank, it's your job to hold aggro, I just do the damage". It is almost like these DPS see me as an NPC there solely to gratify and progress their experience. 

It's a frustrating process to be fair that the biggest difficulty I have with group content as a tank are other players. 

Anyhow, to do with your party size issue. I actually think you're wrong on this in part. You see, Final Fantasy 14 has been the first MMO in a long time that encourages group play. Yes, the duty finder has a long wait for DPS (sometimes 40 mins for those guys). But, it's their fault in honest. 

You see, the game has been designed to encourage people to interact with one another, sure the duty finder is there for those who want to go lone wolf. But the rewards of progression come to those who interact with the world and the other players. 

When I play on my DPS job, I am not going to wait for 40 mins in a dungeon queue. I join the Duty finder and then I ask the company if anyone wishes to come. I also stand outside the dungeon and ask around because typically those coming to the dungeon are those who have just unlocked that part of their story and need to progress. 

So, if I want to do Thousand Maws, I go to Quarry Mill I head up to the dungeon, I ask for for a group. Typically I always get someone join and if that person is a tank or healer you'll be surprised how quickly you move through that queue. 

So, to say that it's a missed mark to not have a 5 man group because DPS out weigh tanks/healers is a cop out answer. It's a lazy answer in fact. The game is groomed to encourage interaction, you'll get the best out of it for that interaction. If you don't LIKE interacting with other players, then I beg the question as to why you're playing an MMO in the first instance. 

 

I've witnessed a bunch of these same issues in other mmo's. The tanker or healer got blamed for a group wiping which wasn't always the case. Like in WoW especially. I agree that you increase your chance of finding a group by interacting with other players but some people want a bear minimum of that to be sure. Sometimes just playing with an actual person makes your experience more enjoyable even if you aren't talking. Personally I find it more enjoyable to interact but the fact is that there are those out there that don't like that and aren't obligated to. Just identify those you don't prefer and move on.

One thing I remember from FF11 was that they had the same issues they appear to have now with regard to class alienation. I used to play a Monk in that game and found myself waiting longer to get groups. In a group to play heavy game that is where the trinity became a burden. The Healer / tanks always sought after and dps were secondary. Same as with this FF.

In MMO's in general, isn't this precisely what has given rise to the hybridization that other MMO's go for?

So how do you balance the 2? You go trinity setup and alienate some classes. You go hybrid and you don't alienate but now the roles aren't as defined. Which one becomes more fun? I think a solution still needs to be found for this. Same as with party size but to a lesser degree. Still there is room to be concerned sometimes.

Depending which system of hybrid or trinity a dev goes with, they need to watch party size closely. Not to mention how the party size dynamic affects players.

Anyone remember how many a guild split or crumbled in WoW when they introduced smaller man raid sizes from 40 to 25? I sure remember that. It's easier to add players to your party than to painfully cut players out because you can't have as many. Gotta be careful with going from more to less for group size.

As for the armory I like how it appears to work. Half the time i'm manually organizing same armor / weapon items anyway so why not just have a system that does that. Good show Squenix!

 

 

  Soki123

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/10/08
Posts: 1323

9/14/13 10:07:58 AM#45
To those that have said in raids, theres 1 maybe 2 slots for tanks in a raid, I say, no to that. My FC runs 1 PLD, and 2 sometimes 3 WARs( I m one of them). Sometimes I ll main tank, and sometimes the PLD does, depends on the situation. The healers in our raid, love the extra WARs around in case stuff goes in the toilet, plus our DPS aren t a bunch of morons.
  icculus2112

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/13
Posts: 107

9/14/13 5:18:09 PM#46
Originally posted by Mahavishnu

Wow! I just received a warning for "trolling" and my comment has been deleted. However, I just summed up what has been criticised by many players. The review in progress does not even touch on these issues:

1. The first few steps into this game are full of irrelevant dialouges, boring quests and stupidly running around

2. Heavy zoning and usage of invisible walls. This game is not for explorers.

3. Players never mind and just rush to endlevel repeating fates over and over again.

 

1.  The cities are cool.  I enjoyed this part very much.

2.  You are somewhat right here, I dont mind zoning at all (and you have to keep in mind these servers hold 7500 which is quite large.  SWTOR and EvE are larger, but EvE is a completely different animal and SWTOR caps its people per area, which ffxiv does not). but make the zone lines big and not just little narrow paths.  Still the world feels right to me...it could be more open for sure but its kind of a minor gripe.

3.  fate exp needs to be dropped by about 75% and dungeon completion exp for multiple attempts needs ot be increased greatly to balance out the two activities.  They should also add elite mob areas for group mob chaining for those who liked the ffxi style.  Fortunatley, for those of us who dont like to rush we dont have to do FATE grinding if we don't want and can just relax and level up slow

 

Only number 3 is worthy of mentioning in a review.  The other 2 are pretty minor. 

  dreamscaper

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/08
Posts: 1347

9/15/13 12:59:59 AM#47
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by dreamscaper
Originally posted by Aori

People who say dungeons are easy.. which one are they?

Tank: CC the triangle

DPS1: tank them all

DPS2: ya we don't need CC

Healer: **** my life

Tank: Don't stand in front

DPS1: Then turn it around

DPS2: Raise!

Healer: **** my life

Seriously this is very common..

 

 

As a WHM, this is so true.

Common problem in all MMORPGs with the trilogy...those of us that play tanks and healers usually group with friends and don't PUG because we've all experienced dumb dps screwing things up,blaming and swearing at the tank and/or healer for not keeping them alive and then rage quitting wasting everyone's time.

 

Unfortunately, I'm the only person in my company who is level 50 so far (legacy, I had a massive start on them all), so I'm basically forced to use the Duty Finder for everything currently. I'm very much looking forward to being able to quit using the DF and instead playing with friends. They're much more pleasant to work with.

<3

  Argent6978

Novice Member

Joined: 2/01/11
Posts: 1

9/15/13 9:13:07 AM#48
I really like a lot of the features of this game.  Particularly the armory system.  Though I do have one complaint about that particular feature.  I hang on to older gear for a time, sometimes because it is 100% spiritbonded and I want to make materia out of it.  But then, there's the possibility of destroying an item you need.  This is because there is no way to tell in your bags what items are part of a gearset.  I think they need to add this information in a tagline in the tooltip information for the gear.  This would prevent selling/destroying pieces of equipment that you actually need to keep, but aren't using at a particular moment.  Unfortunately, I destroyed a chest piece for my archer and had to downgrade back to another piece I still had. :(
  Rotak

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/20/03
Posts: 29

9/15/13 11:10:02 AM#49
Worst customer support I have ever seen. I hsve a game breaking account issue and have waited for weeks for a response. Sounds like others are in the same boat. I have seen some rough releases but the lack of communication by SE is pathetic.
  Misaligned

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/11
Posts: 45

9/15/13 12:11:43 PM#50
Originally posted by Tsumoro

People do not like the responsibility of playing a tank or healer. Specifically because the hostility that has been adopted by MMO players. I play a tank, rolling in as a Paladin currently tanking is fairly easy. 

However the DPS mentality has carried over from over MMO's to this one. A lot of MMO solo players like DPS because they can divorce themselves from the other people in the game and get on and do their own stuff. As such I have many DPS join my group that FAIL to speak. I speak to these people, tell them what I would like them to do to ensure a nice swift and safe run but they do not read, they do not react. Only when we wipe do they react to which is toxic at the best of times. 

Of course I remind them that I had spoke earlier informing what they needed to do, but of course, it isn't a DPS issue it's a 'Tank' or 'Healer' issue. I have literally had people say to me "You're the tank, it's your job to hold aggro, I just do the damage". It is almost like these DPS see me as an NPC there solely to gratify and progress their experience. 

It's a frustrating process to be fair that the biggest difficulty I have with group content as a tank are other players. 

Anyhow, to do with your party size issue. I actually think you're wrong on this in part. You see, Final Fantasy 14 has been the first MMO in a long time that encourages group play. Yes, the duty finder has a long wait for DPS (sometimes 40 mins for those guys). But, it's their fault in honest. 

You see, the game has been designed to encourage people to interact with one another, sure the duty finder is there for those who want to go lone wolf. But the rewards of progression come to those who interact with the world and the other players. 

When I play on my DPS job, I am not going to wait for 40 mins in a dungeon queue. I join the Duty finder and then I ask the company if anyone wishes to come. I also stand outside the dungeon and ask around because typically those coming to the dungeon are those who have just unlocked that part of their story and need to progress. 

So, if I want to do Thousand Maws, I go to Quarry Mill I head up to the dungeon, I ask for for a group. Typically I always get someone join and if that person is a tank or healer you'll be surprised how quickly you move through that queue. 

So, to say that it's a missed mark to not have a 5 man group because DPS out weigh tanks/healers is a cop out answer. It's a lazy answer in fact. The game is groomed to encourage interaction, you'll get the best out of it for that interaction. If you don't LIKE interacting with other players, then I beg the question as to why you're playing an MMO in the first instance. 

 

Excellent post.

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3618

9/15/13 12:33:42 PM#51
People like DPS because there is no responsibility......If the group wipes its the healers or tanks fault, not because the DPS didnt do enough damage to take out some of the mobs quickly.
  delateur

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 157

9/15/13 1:03:05 PM#52
I was finally able to order the game, so I should have it by Friday. I am very excited given the overall good response it is getting from reviewers in the game. Also, based on the comments,I will do my best to facilitate good team dynamics regardless of what role I choose.
  dwarfkinglords

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 62

9/15/13 2:21:53 PM#53
the fates look like crap.. GW2 dynamic events are way better.. not only that this game is so 2 dimensional... you hardly platform anywhere so its basically pure combat nothing else, gw2 have better exploration... 
  Leiros

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 223

"mmorpg.com forums: Where SWG vets go to die."

9/15/13 7:03:55 PM#54
Originally posted by dwarfkinglords
the fates look like crap.. GW2 dynamic events are way better.. not only that this game is so 2 dimensional... you hardly platform anywhere so its basically pure combat nothing else, gw2 have better exploration... 

Define "2 dimensional" and "platform" please.

 

I'm having a blast as a tank in ARR. My queue times are generally about 5 sec or so. I've always enjoyed tanking in other mmo's, so it's no surprise that I'm having fun as a warrior. However, one of my biggest gripes is how disappointing the dungeon loot has been so far. Hopefullly this gets better later on.

  Swedish_Chef

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/13
Posts: 225

Bort bort bort!

9/15/13 7:53:50 PM#55
Originally posted by Leiros
Originally posted by dwarfkinglords
the fates look like crap.. GW2 dynamic events are way better.. not only that this game is so 2 dimensional... you hardly platform anywhere so its basically pure combat nothing else, gw2 have better exploration... 

Define "2 dimensional" and "platform" please.

 

I'm having a blast as a tank in ARR. My queue times are generally about 5 sec or so. I've always enjoyed tanking in other mmo's, so it's no surprise that I'm having fun as a warrior. However, one of my biggest gripes is how disappointing the dungeon loot has been so far. Hopefullly this gets better later on.

Pretty sure that's a roundabout way of him complaining that there's no jumping puzzles in the game. In a sense he's right, Squeenix added jumping to the game, but didn't really add any reason to jump. Sure there's a few shortcuts which can be taken here or there, but so far that's been about the extent of it. Exploration as a whole so far (only level 17 on my main class) has been pretty nonexistent. I will admit that's one thing Arenanet did right; there's tons of stuff to discover off the beaten path.

As far as FATEs vs. Dynamically Static (as I call them) events go, they're almost completely identical. The only 'advantage' (and I use that term quite loosely) GW2's version has is that success / failure for one event will sometimes trigger another one in the same or a nearby area. That's it. Both of them are generally zerged down with no effort whatsoever, frequently involve simply collecting or killing things, and neither of them have any sort of effect on the world which lasts for more than a few minutes at best. To claim that one is better than the other is just silly.

I'll stick with FFXIV though. It's the first FF game I've found fun & engaging since FF9, and so far the story (unlike most previous FF games after 7) actually makes sense and is well written, with nary an overly emo, overly silly, or overly annoying character in sight... so far. I'll keep my fingers crossed that they don't have a version of Snow, Squall, or (God help me) Tidus hiding in the wings somewhere.

  fistanmage

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/13
Posts: 4

9/15/13 9:22:00 PM#56
this review is nothing but a bash. Seriously I play a DPS or DD role as my main and I play a tank.. I love them both. As a tank it our job to learn the dungeon and mobs. we are your guides to a safe and happy journey through the maze of death. I hate it when I am tanking and there is more then one Arcanist in the group. I have done this for my Free Company to help. and they use the Tank carbie. Yes it is nice to solo with. But honestly at the lower level dungeons a tank does not get the skills it needs to have major hate. So all you ACN players.. and there are a lot of them.  Please as a tank I ask you not to use your tank pet. Cause really.. you do that and pull argro off the tank. we can not get it back from it. So then what is a tank suppose to do. Cause well we are not DPS or Damage Dealers. we are the groups get your butt beat on person. So if you use a tank pet and grab argro off the tank and well you die.. Stop yelling at the Healer and the Tank.. cause one the healer heals the tank..  Sorry but it is how this game works.
  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1385

9/15/13 9:59:16 PM#57
Originally posted by Aori

People who say dungeons are easy.. which one are they?

Tank: CC the triangle

DPS1: tank them all

DPS2: ya we don't need CC

Healer: **** my life

Tank: Don't stand in front

DPS1: Then turn it around

DPS2: Raise!

Healer: **** my life

Seriously this is very common..

 

So true it makes me want to cry (WHM myself)

And the dps dare to complain about "bad" tanks and healers, when they're all exactly like that.

99.9% of the dps in the game doesn't understand that the game is FAR more about control / aggro management than any DINGDING OVER 9000! DPS!!!!11.

I personally stop healing after the first time DPS get damaged by red (aoe/cone) or pull aggro, if they get hit again, i don't heal them. Shouldn't be that hard to manage aggro with the build in hate meters and tells all around.

 

Currently playing: -

Waiting for: Class4.

Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  VaultFairy

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/21/09
Posts: 542

9/16/13 8:01:10 AM#58
Originally posted by Aori

People who say dungeons are easy.. which one are they?

Tank: CC the triangle

DPS1: tank them all

DPS2: ya we don't need CC

Healer: **** my life

Tank: Don't stand in front

DPS1: Then turn it around

DPS2: Raise!

Healer: **** my life

Seriously this is very common..

 

LMAO! As a healer and tank i agree. xD

  drbaltazar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7985

9/16/13 8:10:03 AM#59
If you are a caster stay caster.in theory you can go disciple of war.but on average I would stay caster.your class boss also warn you.yes you can go other class.but I would suggest you master this one first.follow the warning of the class master.same for crafting.
  Delusive

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/17/04
Posts: 147

9/16/13 10:33:57 AM#60
Originally posted by fistanmage
this review is nothing but a bash. Seriously I play a DPS or DD role as my main and I play a tank.. I love them both. As a tank it our job to learn the dungeon and mobs. we are your guides to a safe and happy journey through the maze of death. I hate it when I am tanking and there is more then one Arcanist in the group. I have done this for my Free Company to help. and they use the Tank carbie. Yes it is nice to solo with. But honestly at the lower level dungeons a tank does not get the skills it needs to have major hate. So all you ACN players.. and there are a lot of them.  Please as a tank I ask you not to use your tank pet. Cause really.. you do that and pull argro off the tank. we can not get it back from it. So then what is a tank suppose to do. Cause well we are not DPS or Damage Dealers. we are the groups get your butt beat on person. So if you use a tank pet and grab argro off the tank and well you die.. Stop yelling at the Healer and the Tank.. cause one the healer heals the tank..  Sorry but it is how this game works.

I have to use my tank pet sometimes because people join as a tank, but don't even use their taunts. So I use topaz to grab adds that are beating on the healer.

But this is usually at early levels. Not needed by level 30.
 
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