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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » This is possibly why you don't like FFXIV (huge grain of salt before entering)

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47 posts found
  klloud

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/13
Posts: 14

9/15/13 2:13:24 PM#21
Originally posted by Mahavishnu

posted by Cymdai

"Issue #1: Crafting is utterly useless

As I got my LTW to 50, I had a sense of relief. "Alright, I'm done with THAT part of the game..." I thought to myself. I figured with my newfound craft, I'd be able to start making money almost immediately in the game. There is just one small problem; there is no demand for hardly anything. Gear, which should be utilized to a degree by all classes, isn't necessary. Because of the incredible ease of the game, it hasn't been uncommon to see people wearing severely outdated gear throughout the game. I've seen level 40's rocking level 18 armor, and to no real penalty. Since there's no reason for combat classes to buy gear, there's no reason to craft combat gear. Furthermore, combat classes can get gear cheaper/free, and easier simply by doing quests and dungeons. Furthermore, due to Issue#2, people are leveling so fast and efficiently that there's no reason to EVER buy gear! In fact, the irony of crafting +gathering and +crafting gear is that the only people who buy it is fellow crafters and gatherers. Essentially, you're creating gear for crafting because it's mandatory, but crafting has no purpose other than to build more crafting gear...and, of course, materia melding. I basically spent all my gil buying crystals and ingredients to level a craft which is now essentially worthless. Also, since no one needs to buy anything... there is no economy. Gil is essentially used to skilling up a craft, or repairing your end game gear. That's it. And once you lose it, it's 10x harder to make it back, because there is ample supply, and meager demand. This is probably related to the fact that..."

Which is sad, because I think the crafting mechanics in this game are great. Did you ever play Vanguard?

The game is brand new and the economy is not established yet. 

  PulsarMan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/09
Posts: 234

9/15/13 7:52:11 PM#22

I would actually wager that the vast majority of the people who purchased the game enjoy it. Otherwise, reactions would be far worse. 

 

You're in a place where threads on any particular title typically resemble, "This game is awful.", "This is why I hate this game.", "This is why this game will fail." and so on. I'm rather fond of the reasonable and intelligent individuals on mmorpg.com who foster interesting discussion. A rather good batch of community at times. But in many cases, these forums are flooded to the brim with venom and hyperbole. 

 

Just my 2 cents. 

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 7024

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

9/15/13 8:06:14 PM#23
Originally posted by Aori

Honestly most don't like FFXIV because they didn't think before they bought it and somehow that is SE's fault. They preordered because so many others were doing it and thought it was going to be something it never even said it was going to be. Whew for last minute snowballish hype.

This statement has a high level of accuracy.One thing Square does not do is make all kinds of wild accusations,they simply put out a game and hope people like it.

If you look at all the other developers and their marketing ploys,it gets a bit annoying.

I think i can offer a pretty good answer to where this game lacks because A i do like the game and B i am a fan of most of Square's work and i think overall they are a good developer.You would think i was a shoe in to play this game,well i am not.

The reason is the things i loved about FFXI were dumbed down in this game.Yes FFXI has made a lot of changes and imo MANY  for the worse,it sort of tells me there has been a steady direction in the wrong  direction.Those things were the class design and the group design and the combat design.All three of these area were dumbed down from FFXI,actually that was a poor choice of word,the truth is those systems were done with less effort.

At this point it is near impossible to predict Square Enix,they have shown be a really bad side and a really good side,so who knows what or who is making their decisions,it definitely does not look like the same person each time.They just made an utter crap FFXI expansion ,yet i did not see the same in FFXIV but FFXIV was also released a year ago.So i think i will get a MUCH better view of where Square is going in the first expansion and that is what i am waiting for.I do not want to start investing a lot of time and effort into a game if they go the route of Abyssea or Adoulin,those were very disappointing ways to create longevity/grind.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Kajidourden

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 314

9/15/13 11:31:47 PM#24
Originally posted by DMKano

50 summoner/scholar/BLM - crafted gear bought = 0

The crafting system is indeed fun, but currently it does not provide any "gotta have" endgame items which is why some are saying that it is worthless - which is IMO wrong, its not end-game worthy, but it is still a fun game in itself.

 

It will be interesting to see if/how they plan to address this.  Granted, this is a totally different team from ffxi...but they had similar issues that they found ways to adjust for.

  TwoThreeFour

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2149

9/16/13 3:14:44 AM#25
Originally posted by Kajidourden
Originally posted by DMKano

50 summoner/scholar/BLM - crafted gear bought = 0

The crafting system is indeed fun, but currently it does not provide any "gotta have" endgame items which is why some are saying that it is worthless - which is IMO wrong, its not end-game worthy, but it is still a fun game in itself.

 

It will be interesting to see if/how they plan to address this.  Granted, this is a totally different team from ffxi...but they had similar issues that they found ways to adjust for.

The only thing they got to fix currently is the balance between Relic+1 Weapon vs HQ 5-melded i70 weapon. Relic+1 is too strong in comparison. 

 

As I mentioned above, when it comes to most other equipment, it is actually a trade-off between stats. 

  RebelScum99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1127

9/16/13 3:33:30 AM#26

Actually I didn't care for it because of the tiny zone size, cutesy mobs, excessive loading screens, obtrusive cutscenes/storyline with creepy soundless dialogue, and extremely dull gameplay through the first 20 levels.  

Seems like a lot of the folks playing the game really like it, which is great for them, and great for the game.  But I don't think it's necessary to try and hypothesize why people don't like it, as if it is somehow their fault that this game didn't appeal to them.  Maybe people like different things in games?

  Naqaj

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/09
Posts: 1681

9/16/13 3:37:56 AM#27
This is possibly why you don't like FFXIV. Or possibly it isn't. What is the purpose of this thread?
  User Deleted
 
OP  9/16/13 12:52:45 PM#28


Originally posted by Naqaj
This is possibly why you don't like FFXIV. Or possibly it isn't. What is the purpose of this thread?

I thought it would be productive to delve deeper into the why people like or dislike this game rather than the typical rants we see which are lists of declarative statements nailed to a wall.

  vzerov

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 120

9/16/13 5:11:31 PM#29
Originally posted by Mahavishnu

posted by Cymdai

"Issue #1: Crafting is utterly useless

As I got my LTW to 50, I had a sense of relief. "Alright, I'm done with THAT part of the game..." I thought to myself. I figured with my newfound craft, I'd be able to start making money almost immediately in the game. There is just one small problem; there is no demand for hardly anything. Gear, which should be utilized to a degree by all classes, isn't necessary. Because of the incredible ease of the game, it hasn't been uncommon to see people wearing severely outdated gear throughout the game. I've seen level 40's rocking level 18 armor, and to no real penalty. Since there's no reason for combat classes to buy gear, there's no reason to craft combat gear. Furthermore, combat classes can get gear cheaper/free, and easier simply by doing quests and dungeons. Furthermore, due to Issue#2, people are leveling so fast and efficiently that there's no reason to EVER buy gear! In fact, the irony of crafting +gathering and +crafting gear is that the only people who buy it is fellow crafters and gatherers. Essentially, you're creating gear for crafting because it's mandatory, but crafting has no purpose other than to build more crafting gear...and, of course, materia melding. I basically spent all my gil buying crystals and ingredients to level a craft which is now essentially worthless. Also, since no one needs to buy anything... there is no economy. Gil is essentially used to skilling up a craft, or repairing your end game gear. That's it. And once you lose it, it's 10x harder to make it back, because there is ample supply, and meager demand. This is probably related to the fact that..."

Which is sad, because I think the crafting mechanics in this game are great. Did you ever play Vanguard?

This.  My ltw and armorer are both like around 45, made around 70k gi ish  from crafting, and around 95% of it are from selling crafting meterial or gear , like steel ingot, leather, gloves for crafter..etc. battle classes gears are extreamly hard to sell. Why anyone buy a piece of leather armor for 5000 gil which increases your defense by merly 8, and only for the 3 hours before you replace it with a new one? you can even get better gear and weapons from GC quatermasters with seals which is extramly easy to get. The crafting part of the game is almost entirely seperated from the combat part, people buys crafted items only for crafting, and to make more crafted item to sell to other crafters. LOL

  echolynfan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/26/10
Posts: 728

I ain't got a gat but I gotta soldering gun

9/16/13 6:24:50 PM#30
Originally posted by vzerov
Originally posted by Mahavishnu

posted by Cymdai

"Issue #1: Crafting is utterly useless

As I got my LTW to 50, I had a sense of relief. "Alright, I'm done with THAT part of the game..." I thought to myself. I figured with my newfound craft, I'd be able to start making money almost immediately in the game. There is just one small problem; there is no demand for hardly anything. Gear, which should be utilized to a degree by all classes, isn't necessary. Because of the incredible ease of the game, it hasn't been uncommon to see people wearing severely outdated gear throughout the game. I've seen level 40's rocking level 18 armor, and to no real penalty. Since there's no reason for combat classes to buy gear, there's no reason to craft combat gear. Furthermore, combat classes can get gear cheaper/free, and easier simply by doing quests and dungeons. Furthermore, due to Issue#2, people are leveling so fast and efficiently that there's no reason to EVER buy gear! In fact, the irony of crafting +gathering and +crafting gear is that the only people who buy it is fellow crafters and gatherers. Essentially, you're creating gear for crafting because it's mandatory, but crafting has no purpose other than to build more crafting gear...and, of course, materia melding. I basically spent all my gil buying crystals and ingredients to level a craft which is now essentially worthless. Also, since no one needs to buy anything... there is no economy. Gil is essentially used to skilling up a craft, or repairing your end game gear. That's it. And once you lose it, it's 10x harder to make it back, because there is ample supply, and meager demand. This is probably related to the fact that..."

Which is sad, because I think the crafting mechanics in this game are great. Did you ever play Vanguard?

This.  My ltw and armorer are both like around 45, made around 70k gi ish  from crafting, and around 95% of it are from selling crafting meterial or gear , like steel ingot, leather, gloves for crafter..etc. battle classes gears are extreamly hard to sell. Why anyone buy a piece of leather armor for 5000 gil which increases your defense by merly 8, and only for the 3 hours before you replace it with a new one? you can even get better gear and weapons from GC quatermasters with seals which is extramly easy to get. The crafting part of the game is almost entirely seperated from the combat part, people buys crafted items only for crafting, and to make more crafted item to sell to other crafters. LOL

Actually you're right about that and also because many many people love to craft...just for the sake of crafting. I know a lot of combat only people won't understand that but when housing and other non-combat stuff opens up (as well as PVP) crafters will VERY busy.

Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  Darknessguy64

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/30/13
Posts: 237

9/16/13 6:31:59 PM#31
Ever notice the same bitter vets show up in every thread and try to help us understand why the game is fail and we are foolish to enjoy such a pile of drivel?
  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

9/16/13 6:34:25 PM#32

Why try to categorize everyone who doesn't like this game or any game into one or very few groups?

There are probably a  myriad of reasons why different people didn't like a game you like just like there are many reasons others do like it.

Just be happy you and others do like the game and hopefully enough continue to like the game and make it profitable.

The first step in discriminating is labeling and we can already see some of that beginning in this thread.

  Ayulin

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/13
Posts: 344

9/16/13 6:51:09 PM#33
Originally posted by Drakynn

Why try to categorize everyone who doesn't like this game or any game into one or very few groups?

There are probably a  myriad of reasons why different people didn't like a game you like just like there are many reasons others do like it.

Just be happy you and others do like the game and hopefully enough continue to like the game and make it profitable.

The first step in discriminating is labeling and we can already see some of that beginning in this thread.

It's just people insecure or otherwise closed-minded in their own opinions trying to marginalize those who don't share them.

There's this really strange emotional attachment many develop toward "their game", and it drives them to feel they have to "defend" it against any and all criticism. A favorite tactic is to - in some typically intellectually dishonest manner - squeeze them into a categorical box that they can then dismiss, rather than face the "ugly reality" that "their game" may not be the beacon of perfection they want to believe it is, and that not everyone is going to share their opinions of it.

The flip-side to that is when they somehow feel "betrayed" by said game; they become its strongest and most vocal detractors.

Don't try to understand them. Just pity them.

  User Deleted
 
OP  9/16/13 9:13:38 PM#34


Originally posted by Ayulin

Originally posted by Drakynn Why try to categorize everyone who doesn't like this game or any game into one or very few groups? There are probably a  myriad of reasons why different people didn't like a game you like just like there are many reasons others do like it. Just be happy you and others do like the game and hopefully enough continue to like the game and make it profitable. The first step in discriminating is labeling and we can already see some of that beginning in this thread.
It's just people insecure or otherwise closed-minded in their own opinions trying to marginalize those who don't share them.

There's this really strange emotional attachment many develop toward "their game", and it drives them to feel they have to "defend" it against any and all criticism. A favorite tactic is to - in some typically intellectually dishonest manner - squeeze them into a categorical box that they can then dismiss, rather than face the "ugly reality" that "their game" may not be the beacon of perfection they want to believe it is, and that not everyone is going to share their opinions of it.

The flip-side to that is when they somehow feel "betrayed" by said game; they become its strongest and most vocal detractors.

Don't try to understand them. Just pity them.



Wow is that how you interpreted my original post? I sincerely hope not.

  cybersurfr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/13/04
Posts: 183

9/16/13 11:20:19 PM#35

Agreed, OP. I share your exact sentiments with the crafting in the game. I am neutral towards the combat and questing and open to the distaste people have with them. I find them adequate to the game, at best. I empathize with those who find FATEs simplistic because I share the same opinion. I don't like everything in the game, but I do know I like the crafting.

 

Crafting takes the forefront for me in the game. Ergo, that aspect shapes up the game to have a bigger potential for a positive community. Every thing else in the game just adds to it to form a complete package bumping it up from the average "this year's hyped MMO" to something more. It is definitely not for everyone, but it is exactly what is making the game stand out for me.

 

 

  Touc

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 21

9/17/13 12:49:34 AM#36

I have to say that the game was pretty good, but I lost interest just recently because of a few realizations. Crafting is very easy and I can make HQ items without HQ mats every synth without even trying now. The market on my server is close to bottoming-out, but more importantly gil is practically worthless. Think about exactly what crafters can make for DoW and you will find that nothing is really worth it after the relic quest weapon. The difference between the gear that I can craft and the gear that can be bought with  philosophy tomestones is negligible. The crafting in the game is pretty much a pyramid scheme (crafters craft for crafters to craft for crafters). And all we have to look forward to is housing in 2 more months....

The hard mode raids felt very simple and were hinged upon the correct tank position more than any other aspect. I can't say they were fun, because they were not challenging. Anybody who says the combat is more methodical than other MMOs is completely incorrect; it's pretty much the same as WoW. I find the cross-class ability system to be used as an extension of my job and it's expected of me to have those abilities for raidtime. The cross-class system is terrible because I am forced to choose from 2 classes; this doesn't make me very unique at all from the next player with the same job as me. Also, to cap out mythology tomestones each week I have to run the one same dungeon over and over which is boring.

Also, if you feel that this crafting system is the best thing ever then you haven't tried SWG's when you had a chance.

  TwoThreeFour

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2149

9/17/13 1:49:07 AM#37
Originally posted by Touc

I have to say that the game was pretty good, but I lost interest just recently because of a few realizations. Crafting is very easy and I can make HQ items without HQ mats every synth without even trying now. The market on my server is close to bottoming-out, but more importantly gil is practically worthless. Think about exactly what crafters can make for DoW and you will find that nothing is really worth it after the relic quest weapon. The difference between the gear that I can craft and the gear that can be bought with  philosophy tomestones is negligible. The crafting in the game is pretty much a pyramid scheme (crafters craft for crafters to craft for crafters). And all we have to look forward to is housing in 2 more months....

The hard mode raids felt very simple and were hinged upon the correct tank position more than any other aspect. I can't say they were fun, because they were not challenging. Anybody who says the combat is more methodical than other MMOs is completely incorrect; it's pretty much the same as WoW. I find the cross-class ability system to be used as an extension of my job and it's expected of me to have those abilities for raidtime. The cross-class system is terrible because I am forced to choose from 2 classes; this doesn't make me very unique at all from the next player with the same job as me. Also, to cap out mythology tomestones each week I have to run the one same dungeon over and over which is boring.

Also, if you feel that this crafting system is the best thing ever then you haven't tried SWG's when you had a chance.

When you say very easy to craft, what itemlevel of crafts are you attempting at what level?

 

About relic weapon +1: I agree, crafted fully melded hq versions are not on par due to the primary "damage" stat being so important and inferior on hq version. They need to fix that, really.

 

About comparing to equips bought with philosophy tomestones; sure the non-melded HQ versions are comparable to those bought with philosophy tomestones; but properly melded ones are superior. 

 

Properly pentamelded HQ versions are comparable to AF+1 gear (need tome of mythology for that), but AF+1 is job specific and there are classes for where it is far from clear that the job is better than being a class due to lost cross-class abilities; Lancer vs Dragoon is a such case.

Allagan gear (bahamut coil i90 drops) is though comparable to properly pentamelded HQ versions. 

--------------------------

 

Perhaps it is too easy currently to get AF+1 and Bahamut Coil gear, while it is too hard to get properly pentamelded HQ i70 crafted gear; if so I hope Yoichi fixes it like he fixed the repair issues.

 

 

  Touc

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 21

9/17/13 2:00:19 AM#38
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Touc

I have to say that the game was pretty good, but I lost interest just recently because of a few realizations. Crafting is very easy and I can make HQ items without HQ mats every synth without even trying now. The market on my server is close to bottoming-out, but more importantly gil is practically worthless. Think about exactly what crafters can make for DoW and you will find that nothing is really worth it after the relic quest weapon. The difference between the gear that I can craft and the gear that can be bought with  philosophy tomestones is negligible. The crafting in the game is pretty much a pyramid scheme (crafters craft for crafters to craft for crafters). And all we have to look forward to is housing in 2 more months....

The hard mode raids felt very simple and were hinged upon the correct tank position more than any other aspect. I can't say they were fun, because they were not challenging. Anybody who says the combat is more methodical than other MMOs is completely incorrect; it's pretty much the same as WoW. I find the cross-class ability system to be used as an extension of my job and it's expected of me to have those abilities for raidtime. The cross-class system is terrible because I am forced to choose from 2 classes; this doesn't make me very unique at all from the next player with the same job as me. Also, to cap out mythology tomestones each week I have to run the one same dungeon over and over which is boring.

Also, if you feel that this crafting system is the best thing ever then you haven't tried SWG's when you had a chance.

When you say very easy to craft, what itemlevel of crafts are you attempting at what level?

 

About relic weapon +1: I agree, crafted fully melded hq versions are not on par due to the primary "damage" stat being so important and inferior on hq version. They need to fix that, really.

 

About comparing to equips bought with philosophy tomestones; sure the non-melded HQ versions are comparable to those bought with philosophy tomestones; but properly melded ones are superior. 

 

Properly pentamelded HQ versions are comparable to AF+1 gear (need tome of mythology for that), but AF+1 is job specific and there are classes for where it is far from clear that the job is better than being a class due to lost cross-class abilities; Lancer vs Dragoon is a such case.

Allagan gear (bahamut coil i90 drops) is though comparable to properly pentamelded HQ versions. 

--------------------------

 

Perhaps it is too easy currently to get AF+1 and Bahamut Coil gear, while it is too hard to get properly pentamelded HQ i70 crafted gear; if so I hope Yoichi fixes it like he fixed the repair issues.

 

 

I was doing 1 star lvl 50 Leatherworking with full HQ gear. Half of my gear didn't even have materia in it because it wasn't needed to get HQ on my crafts.

Melding the crafted DoW gear does make a superior item, but it's probably very small. I never melded any DoW gear, but if it's anything like melding the Crafting gear then we can probably only get a few points extra into each stat, before hitting cap.

Jobs are definitely far superior than classes, and we are not unique in any way.

  Touc

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 21

9/17/13 2:02:06 AM#39
The 2 star items weren't good enough and would be overpriced anyway. It was pretty much a waste of time to craft the 2 star stuff.
  TwoThreeFour

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2149

9/17/13 2:15:56 AM#40
Originally posted by Touc
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Touc

I have to say that the game was pretty good, but I lost interest just recently because of a few realizations. Crafting is very easy and I can make HQ items without HQ mats every synth without even trying now. The market on my server is close to bottoming-out, but more importantly gil is practically worthless. Think about exactly what crafters can make for DoW and you will find that nothing is really worth it after the relic quest weapon. The difference between the gear that I can craft and the gear that can be bought with  philosophy tomestones is negligible. The crafting in the game is pretty much a pyramid scheme (crafters craft for crafters to craft for crafters). And all we have to look forward to is housing in 2 more months....

The hard mode raids felt very simple and were hinged upon the correct tank position more than any other aspect. I can't say they were fun, because they were not challenging. Anybody who says the combat is more methodical than other MMOs is completely incorrect; it's pretty much the same as WoW. I find the cross-class ability system to be used as an extension of my job and it's expected of me to have those abilities for raidtime. The cross-class system is terrible because I am forced to choose from 2 classes; this doesn't make me very unique at all from the next player with the same job as me. Also, to cap out mythology tomestones each week I have to run the one same dungeon over and over which is boring.

Also, if you feel that this crafting system is the best thing ever then you haven't tried SWG's when you had a chance.

When you say very easy to craft, what itemlevel of crafts are you attempting at what level?

 

About relic weapon +1: I agree, crafted fully melded hq versions are not on par due to the primary "damage" stat being so important and inferior on hq version. They need to fix that, really.

 

About comparing to equips bought with philosophy tomestones; sure the non-melded HQ versions are comparable to those bought with philosophy tomestones; but properly melded ones are superior. 

 

Properly pentamelded HQ versions are comparable to AF+1 gear (need tome of mythology for that), but AF+1 is job specific and there are classes for where it is far from clear that the job is better than being a class due to lost cross-class abilities; Lancer vs Dragoon is a such case.

Allagan gear (bahamut coil i90 drops) is though comparable to properly pentamelded HQ versions. 

--------------------------

 

Perhaps it is too easy currently to get AF+1 and Bahamut Coil gear, while it is too hard to get properly pentamelded HQ i70 crafted gear; if so I hope Yoichi fixes it like he fixed the repair issues.

 

 

I was doing 1 star lvl 50 Leatherworking with full HQ gear. Half of my gear didn't even have materia in it because it wasn't needed to get HQ on my crafts.

Melding the crafted DoW gear does make a superior item, but it's probably very small. I never melded any DoW gear, but if it's anything like melding the Crafting gear then we can probably only get a few points extra into each stat, before hitting cap.

Jobs are definitely far superior than classes, and we are not unique in any way.

About dragoon vs lancer:

As a dragoon you get several "instant cast" abilities, but you lose gladiator off-tank cross-class abilities, archer damage buff and accuracy/dex buff as well ass long-cooldown support abilities.

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