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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: That's Not an MMO

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50 posts found
  karmath

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/05
Posts: 841

9/14/13 2:51:43 AM#21
Please forward your article to as many publisher's marketing teams as you can please.
  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2002

9/14/13 4:12:36 AM#22
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Grahor

The True Meaning of MMORPG, or who the hell cares? Who's the author to tell me what's Truly True (TM) MMORPG is and what isn't? Nobody, that's who.

 

*shrug* why did I even read that...

For the same reason we have to argue over the true meaning of the word "football"

Most of the world is terribly confused over its usage versus some strange game called Soccer.

Actually the world is pretty consistent and calling it football, except US and Canada... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_for_association_football

"Within the English-speaking world, association football is now usually called football in the United Kingdom, and mainly soccer in Canada and the United States. Other countries, such as Australia and New Zealand, may use either or both terms."

 

I've never even heard the word soccer before I took english as my second foreign language :)

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

9/14/13 6:06:48 AM#23
Vindication!

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  jbombard

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/06/08
Posts: 462

9/14/13 7:31:29 AM#24
Big, Persistent World? How much of the worlds we play are in really persistent, unless you mean it doesn't matter what you do and the world will persist in the state it was designed.  The worlds we play in are anything but persistent, if you kill it it will simply respawn, for the most part you cannot make changes to these worlds that will persist.  The developers may patch in changes that persist but that isn't what we are talking about.  If being persistent is a requirement of an MMORPG there aren't many MMORPGs.
  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6633

9/14/13 9:22:38 AM#25
Originally posted by jbombard
Big, Persistent World? How much of the worlds we play are in really persistent, unless you mean it doesn't matter what you do and the world will persist in the state it was designed.  The worlds we play in are anything but persistent, if you kill it it will simply respawn, for the most part you cannot make changes to these worlds that will persist.  The developers may patch in changes that persist but that isn't what we are talking about.  If being persistent is a requirement of an MMORPG there aren't many MMORPGs.

You do not understand what he means when he says persistent world.  It means that you see the same world as everyone else and the world is not an instance for you and your group.  It has nothing to do with the ability to actually change the game world.

Good article.  I agree with it.  

I really don't understand how people can play a MOBA after playing a MMO, there a tremendous amount of depth difference, besides MOBA's having about the worst playerbase possible.

  arieste

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/11/04
Posts: 3308

9/14/13 11:12:01 AM#26
Originally posted by Ozmodan
 you see the same world as everyone else

So basically, the only MMO is EVE then?  Because pretty much every other MMO (maybe with a few smaller exceptions), has people seeing different copies of the world.  Whether it's copies called "servers" or "phases" or "instances" or whatever the technological term is, but there are very few MMOs where everyone is always part of "the same world". 

 

People really need to worry less about definitions and more about making better games.

 

And about "real players, real connections", honestly - lol.  I think by most people's definitions a game like GW2 is certainly a MMORPG, yet it is probably the most anti-social, anti-connection game i've ever played.  It's basically dozens of people all soloing next to each other without ever saying hello.  I've probably talked with more people while playing shooters than while doing the raids in GW2.      

 

And i don't care what label you stick on the things.  I just want good games to play.  All "massively multiplayer" means is that it supports more people than "traditional" multiplayer.  Everything else is bullshit. 

"I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

- Raph Koster

Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2
Currently Playing: EQ2, Firefall

  bliss14

Elite Member

Joined: 4/01/11
Posts: 526

Ahh devil ether.

9/14/13 12:00:09 PM#27
Originally posted by arieste
Originally posted by Ozmodan
 you see the same world as everyone else

So basically, the only MMO is EVE then?  Because pretty much every other MMO (maybe with a few smaller exceptions), has people seeing different copies of the world.  Whether it's copies called "servers" or "phases" or "instances" or whatever the technological term is, but there are very few MMOs where everyone is always part of "the same world". 

 

People really need to worry less about definitions and more about making better games.

 

And about "real players, real connections", honestly - lol.  I think by most people's definitions a game like GW2 is certainly a MMORPG, yet it is probably the most anti-social, anti-connection game i've ever played.  It's basically dozens of people all soloing next to each other without ever saying hello.  I've probably talked with more people while playing shooters than while doing the raids in GW2.      

 

And i don't care what label you stick on the things.  I just want good games to play.  All "massively multiplayer" means is that it supports more people than "traditional" multiplayer.  Everything eDeplse is bullshit. 

Depends on your definition of MMO.  When I played GW2 I would see maybe a hundy of people in a given zone on a given day. Is that a MMO level of people you are playing with?  /shrug.

  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 1978

9/14/13 12:16:34 PM#28

Just like ninja-looting the term MMORPG (and it´s offsprings) have never been and will never be pinned down to just one thing.

 

 

Tomas Soapbox

This have been a good conversation

  monkey_crusher

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/13
Posts: 41

9/14/13 12:57:46 PM#29
Originally posted by Konfess

@GameByNight, back in the mid 90's I too a look at MUDs.  I don't know their populations then or now, do you consider them MMOs?  If a MUD had a simultaneous user population over 1000, would that qualify?

 

The basic question is does a lobby count in determining ownership of the title MMO (not mmorpg, just MMO).  Realize that we may not think of the game lobby as a part of the game, because all we can do their is socialize and interact verbally or textually.  But If I said the lobby is a pre-spawn point or game limbo and added lore support info, could every get on board?

 

Instead of sounding like champions of MMO purity, you are sounding like old men left behind as the modern world progresses.  "You kids and your rock and roll music, your dungarees and motor bikes.  Why in my day we rode a hoarse and carriage, and we liked it."  I say get on board or get left behind.  We may not always like change, but it is inevitable.

No.


 

  beregar

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 30

9/14/13 1:08:30 PM#30

I can get behind large persistent areas (world) and many players aspect but it's unclear to me what leveling has to do with mmos. It's entirely possible to have a game without gear grind and levels and still call it a MMO. You don't even need to have human avatars playing primary role (i.e. EVE where ships are the main focus).

 

Still definitions for words change all the time so might as well get used to it. I don't think there is any official party who has created a directive about how many players must be on a single map to call the game a MMO.

- Beregar

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

9/14/13 7:37:21 PM#31
Originally posted by Konfess

@GameByNight, back in the mid 90's I too a look at MUDs.  I don't know their populations then or now, do you consider them MMOs?  If a MUD had a simultaneous user population over 1000, would that qualify?

 

The basic question is does a lobby count in determining ownership of the title MMO (not mmorpg, just MMO).  Realize that we may not think of the game lobby as a part of the game, because all we can do their is socialize and interact verbally or textually.  But If I said the lobby is a pre-spawn point or game limbo and added lore support info, could every get on board?

 

Instead of sounding like champions of MMO purity, you are sounding like old men left behind as the modern world progresses.  "You kids and your rock and roll music, your dungarees and motor bikes.  Why in my day we rode a hoarse and carriage, and we liked it."  I say get on board or get left behind.  We may not always like change, but it is inevitable.

Or maybe the term doesn't need to be corrupted until it loses the ability to describe. What's the motivation to include every action game and MOBA in this category?

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  DAS1337

Novice Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2379

9/15/13 8:37:00 AM#32

An article written on MMORPG that directly contradicts it's own MMO game's list.

 

MMORPG, you're getting stranger every day..

  DrCokePepsi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 163

What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion.
~Sephiroth FFVII

9/15/13 12:49:39 PM#33
Christopher Coke, this is the first legit column that i have read on this site that wasn't utter bull. Sir, you are truly an MMORPG player and in light of all the casuals trolling these forums and this site in general, you truly understand and have just portrayed what the situation in MMO's these days are.
  Novusod

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/30/09
Posts: 861

9/15/13 5:01:39 PM#34

This whole "That's Not an MMO" meme reeks of schadenfreude. People see others having fun in some large online game and then immediately jump down their throat and scream "That Not an MMO." It is over done and ridiculous in the effort that has been made to say Lobby based MMOs are not MMOs. Since when was "open world" added to the definition of MMORPG? People need to chill and stop trying to rewrite the definition of MMORPG almost two decades after it was established.

 

The history of MMOs goes back to MUDs or Multi-User Dungeons which was followed by a term called graphical MUDs. Some people called graphical MUDs Online RPGs because progress was saved to an online server rather then locally. Shortly after AOL NeverWinter Nights released the term MMORPG was coined. This has nothing to do with open zone size or number of players per map but was based on the size of the server. In 1993 having 100 people on a single server was considered massive. Progress was persistent as characters could be accessed online at any time 24 hours a day. The malcontents of today would probably say NeverWinter Nights was not a MMORPG even though that was the game the term MMORPG was coined to describe.

 

Today we have online games that are much larger and deeper than NeverWinter nights being scribed as "Not a MMO." Games with many thousands of players per server and have large open towns with 100s of players in town. Even games with 24 man raiding are being relegated to the "Not a MMO" pile because they don't have open zones. When I saw Chris Coke's column I thought it was going to put this "Not a MMO" nonsense to rest. Instead he jumped on the only open world games are MMOs bandwagon. Such beliefs lack perspective of the bigger picture. Open world was never part of the definition of MMORPG but only represents a certain bias for that feature.

 

  madazz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1303

9/15/13 6:03:15 PM#35

Great writing. Can you get a fellow author on the site to fix his review of Ultima Forever? Adam Tingle doesn't know what an MMO is. Ultima Forever is a 4 player game and contains no massive content what-so-ever. Yet he clearly states it as an MMO.

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/851/view/reviews/load/282

 

That is the review. Again, its 4 players MAX. No MMO content at all. This website needs to be clear as to what it knows an MMO is. Articles like this, and then looking at the UO one contradict one another.

  Teala

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 7432

"Really officer, they're herbs."

9/15/13 7:48:04 PM#36
Good article, but in days gone by the term MMORPG stood for what we old timers thought it meant - an online RPG, that had lots of players interacting with one another and that had rules similar to those that we were familiar in regards to RPG's(pen and paper games).   Over the years though RPG has just been kind of twisted and replaced to mean what you decribed and that is OK.   I know the difference between a real MMORPG and a game placed into this catagory of games and that is all that maters to me.  :)
 

  itchmon

Elite Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 1532

9/15/13 10:54:53 PM#37

it's funny how many mmo players play MOBAs.  I resisted the trend until Smite came along, with its MMO control scheme that made me, well, not suck at it.

 

it's like, they have a few little homages to MMOs in their design and that lends just enough familiarity to the MMO player that they are ok with playing them.

 

 

RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

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Henry Rollins

  sanshi44

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1046

9/15/13 11:03:35 PM#38
Realy wish i could say MMO have Huge persistant world but nowadays they dont, Rift you can run from one side to the other in 15 minutes, FF14 you can go from gridania to Uh'dah to vesper bay then to La Noscea in like 20 minutes, gone of the days where world truely felt huge back in EQ it could take you hours to run from one side of the map to the other in games. God even runescape took you awhile to go from the east side to the west side of the map in member worlds but not any more you can run from one side to the other in less than 20 minutes in 90% of moderm MMOs realy is a sad day for RPG when you world feels so small :(
  sanshi44

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1046

9/15/13 11:15:11 PM#39
Originally posted by Ozmodan
Originally posted by jbombard
Big, Persistent World? How much of the worlds we play are in really persistent, unless you mean it doesn't matter what you do and the world will persist in the state it was designed.  The worlds we play in are anything but persistent, if you kill it it will simply respawn, for the most part you cannot make changes to these worlds that will persist.  The developers may patch in changes that persist but that isn't what we are talking about.  If being persistent is a requirement of an MMORPG there aren't many MMORPGs.

You do not understand what he means when he says persistent world.  It means that you see the same world as everyone else and the world is not an instance for you and your group.  It has nothing to do with the ability to actually change the game world.

Good article.  I agree with it.  

I really don't understand how people can play a MOBA after playing a MMO, there a tremendous amount of depth difference, besides MOBA's having about the worst playerbase possible.

 Modern MMO game, players probaly spend 80% of their time if not more in instances which should be classified as persitant, can we truly classify these games as MMOs nowadays???

  sanshi44

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1046

9/15/13 11:21:51 PM#40
Originally posted by arieste
Originally posted by Ozmodan
 you see the same world as everyone else

So basically, the only MMO is EVE then?  Because pretty much every other MMO (maybe with a few smaller exceptions), has people seeing different copies of the world.  Whether it's copies called "servers" or "phases" or "instances" or whatever the technological term is, but there are very few MMOs where everyone is always part of "the same world". 

 

People really need to worry less about definitions and more about making better games.

 

And about "real players, real connections", honestly - lol.  I think by most people's definitions a game like GW2 is certainly a MMORPG, yet it is probably the most anti-social, anti-connection game i've ever played.  It's basically dozens of people all soloing next to each other without ever saying hello.  I've probably talked with more people while playing shooters than while doing the raids in GW2.      

 

And i don't care what label you stick on the things.  I just want good games to play.  All "massively multiplayer" means is that it supports more people than "traditional" multiplayer.  Everything else is bullshit. 

 Basicly the only games that are/were fully presistant were games pre WoW, Everquest, EvE, Runescape and so on. But when WoW came long the game industry shifted to instaning. so realy there arnt many True persistant worlds out there anymore.

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