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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » The reason I think FFXIV is going to fail: Staying power

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413 posts found
  page975

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/02/13
Posts: 317

9/13/13 3:48:08 AM#81
Originally posted by Cymdai
For the record, I want to make sure people understand that I have completed the content there is to complete; my storyline is essentially finished, and I did all the quests in between. It's easier to go faster when you've done the first 30 levels of the game like 6 times in the betas, and read all the dialogue before, etc. So I hope people realize I'm not skimping out on the content, but rather, there just isn't enough content to take up the time.

This tells a lot !!! ..................." done the first 30 levels 6 times in betas "......The OP is both smart and OBSESSIVE.

Unfortunately we have a lot of players like this as of the past few years. I'm older than most of you. When I was younger, people like this had become Doctors or lawyers, now they sit home and play video games.

At this gym I belong to, we have this twenty year old kid. Possibly the smartest person I had ever met. He just started pre-med and tells of the difficulties involved almost to the point that he feels like a nothing, its so hard. Other than the gym, his life is consumed. BUT AT LEAST IN THE END IT WILL PAY OFF !.....What will video games do for you ?

I love mmos, been playing for years, but sometimes reality hits and I know taking it to extreme isn't right. But at least I'm established in a field of work.

For me :

I'll allow myself to really indulge for a week, then go casual. Everything after that in life will contnue to come first. Even indulging for a week is not normal. But Hay, I love mmos too !

 

About FF14 :

Its about mid pace between old school and the other crap that has been handed to us in the last few years. I'm enjoying the journey as a level 32 White Mage playing two or three hours every few days.

It's Friday.  I'll get out of work early, cut the grass, looking fwd to going to an all-you-can-eat, come home and play for two hours.....Thats my day !

  Bigdaddyx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1558

9/13/13 3:49:56 AM#82

Releasing a P2P MMO in 2013 with nothing but raid and die type of end game with promises for more to come in 2 or 3 months... reminds  you guys of any other MMO? yeah every other themepark MMO which struggled to keep servers alive once free month was over.

Its like SE learned nothing from past MMOS or maybe they live in their own time bubble. All i can say is good luck SE if this is how you expect to keep your 300,000 concurrent players past first month.

  zasten

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/13
Posts: 287

9/13/13 3:57:19 AM#83
Sounds like I'm not missing anything by not playing then ;p
  Bigdaddyx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1558

9/13/13 4:01:26 AM#84
Originally posted by zasten
Sounds like I'm not missing anything by not playing then ;p

Not really unless you are a FFXIV die hard fan.

  cybersurfr

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/04
Posts: 183

9/13/13 4:06:45 AM#85

What those who haven't played are missing from this OP is the actual MMO atmosphere in the game. All the OP talks about are numbers and figures - all about the end game eating contest. And he says all that despite not even having finished the actual game.

 

The game has something intangible in that of a world that feels alive with an actual running economy. Don't be mislead into thinking the game is all about collecting loot and burning through content.  It's not as shallow as he seems to project.

 

That point was missed completely.

  Voqar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/04
Posts: 480

9/13/13 4:51:08 AM#86

Excellent post, OP.  I've been saying this for a while but you wrote it out very clearly and very well.  I agree with all of your points.

 

Unfortunately, a lot of people are blinded by the new game shine and just aren't seeing it.

 

Or worse, they LIKE that the game offers zero challenge and has zero depth.  Those are the worst types of players.  They don't care and will be gone very fast.  And the foolish devs catering to this kind of player is what is killing modern MMORPGs and has been for years now.

 

IMO, this game is like SWTOR and so many other WoW clones but the sheer extreme dumbed downedness is beyond anything that has ever been, and where a game like SWTOR had a longer leveling curve, was hyped, had a big release, and had a huge drop off after a few months due to lack of endgame and endgame balance, where does this leave a game like FFXIV that plays dramatically faster and is about 25% as deep?

 

I would agree the dungeons are one of the few things about this game that isn't totally dumbed down into oblivion but still, as awesome as the dungeon BOSS fights get to be the dungeons have just tons of pointless and tedious trash.  I liked *some* of the trash in sunken temple - it had point other than to slow progress between bosses.  But for the most part, the massive volumes of slow to die trash are just time sink.  Doing FFXIV instances makes me miss TSW instances - the bosses were just as good but there are more per instance and low/zero trash - just fun boss fights - no wasted time.  If FFXIV had 6 bosses per instance and about 1/4th as much trash, it would be so freaking sexy, because the grouping is good.

 

You can do fates for an hour and drown in XP, seals, and get some gil and never exert yourself in any measureable way.  Or you can do a dungeon for an hour where you need to be near perfect the whole time AND actually work with/depend on other players, and get a repair bill, maybe a piece of loot, and if the stars align you might get some money from a chest, or you might see one other person get all the chest money due to the idiocy of RNG.  Or you could get in a crappy group and get nothing but wasted time and a repair bill, something that is impossible with fate grinding because you would have to fall asleep playing to fail a fate, and even then you probably wouldn't die and would still get xp and loot.

 

The game is just whacked for balance.  It's too easy for the most part.  You get insane rewards for doing nothing.  Gathering and crafting are harder than questing, leves, and especially fates.  How whacked is it that crafting is dramatically more involved than any of the solo content?  The grouping in instances is good...but the rewards in no way match the difficulty when compared to the brain dead stupid mode of fate grinding welfare.

 

I see plenty of other problems with the game too.  The quality of life issues are big to me.  I expect a MMORPG released in 2013 to have basic and standard features that have been in the genre for over 10 years.  No excuses.  This game is polished but how do you not have basic item compare tooltips, or sortable columnar displays like guild roster and vendor lists (this is common in ALL software...forever now), or a decent bank setup, or decent AH setup (the retainer thing is such sheer garbage).  There are lots of lists about how the UI is lacking or the game is lacking basic features common to premium MMORPGs.  This is P2P people, with a box cost up front.  Not F2P.  You can't expect much for free, but when you're paying, they need to be bringing it.

 

It bothers me that I feel like a lot of people are botting.  There is simply no way that so many people play their characters all day...and then keep going to craft all night.  Not possible.  But I see it day in and day out on Ultros.  Same people in the merchant area, it's like it's carpeted with crafters at all hours.

 

This is one of the very few RPGs, not just MMORPGs, but all RPGs since Atari 800 where there are no loot drops.  It's so freaking weird.  Crafting crap drops.  That's it.  Not even coins drop.  And hardly anybody is commenting on this.  It makes the game so freaking bland and makes the player economy so incredibly bland.  The loot in general is incredibly generic - crafters/vendors/quests ALL give the exact same items.  You can go for HQ versions via crafting.   Whoopee!  Having good drops be ultra rare would be ok - having them not exist at all is just freakish.

 

We shall see.  I expect more people to wake the heck up.  And I'll be really surprised if SE can keep up with content, given that their overall competence seems to be sorely lacking.

Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 5149

9/13/13 5:36:47 AM#87
Originally posted by Voqar

 

It bothers me that I feel like a lot of people are botting.  There is simply no way that so many people play their characters all day...and then keep going to craft all night.  Not possible.  But I see it day in and day out on Ultros.  Same people in the merchant area, it's like it's carpeted with crafters at all hours.

 

This is one of the very few RPGs, not just MMORPGs, but all RPGs since Atari 800 where there are no loot drops.  It's so freaking weird.  Crafting crap drops.  That's it.  Not even coins drop.  And hardly anybody is commenting on this.  It makes the game so freaking bland and makes the player economy so incredibly bland.  The loot in general is incredibly generic - crafters/vendors/quests ALL give the exact same items.  You can go for HQ versions via crafting.   Whoopee!  Having good drops be ultra rare would be ok - having them not exist at all is just freakish.

 

We shall see.  I expect more people to wake the heck up.  And I'll be really surprised if SE can keep up with content, given that their overall competence seems to be sorely lacking.

 http://eorzeareborn.com/macro-overview/

/sigh

  cybersurfr

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/04
Posts: 183

9/13/13 5:44:27 AM#88
Originally posted by Voqardeep?
 

You're one to talk when all you care about is combat and FATE leveling lol. That's about the most shallow and average part of the game so at least I agree with you there. If that's all you care about and how easy it is then you will never be satisfied in any of the upcoming games. You will just endlessly and hopelessly complain. If that was all that matters to you in an MMO then I agree - you shouldn't have bought the game. Stop thinking you're special and immune to the "honeymoon phase" - some people unlike you look beyond the combat and loot. You're just the average gamer seeking a pinata that doesn't exist.

 

What you're looking for isn't an MMO. Unless you call a gear tread mill an MMO, then maybe you're right. The problem with that attitude is that kind of game comes to a complete stop once you're done with all the challenges. You completely dismiss how the game's emphasis in crafting makes it a cut above the rest of the more recent MMOs. You disregard how that same emphasis thrives on player activity trading that aids in building the community.

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 5149

9/13/13 5:51:29 AM#89
Originally posted by cybersurfr
Originally posted by Voqardeep?
 

You're one to talk when all you care about is combat and FATE leveling lol. That's about the most shallow and average part of the game so at least I agree with you there. If that's all you care about and how easy it is then you will never be satisfied in any of the upcoming games. You will just endlessly and hopelessly complain. If that was all that matters to you in an MMO then I agree - you shouldn't have bought the game. Stop thinking you're special and immune to the "honeymoon phase" - some people unlike you look beyond the combat and loot. You're just the average gamer seeking a pinata that doesn't exist.

 

What you're looking for isn't an MMO. Unless you call a gear tread mill an MMO, then maybe you're right. The problem with that attitude is that kind of game comes to a complete stop once you're done with all the challenges. You completely dismiss how the game's emphasis in crafting makes it a cut above the rest of the more recent MMOs. You disregard how that same emphasis thrives on player activity trading that aids in building the community.

 Not to mention personal housing and Free Company Housing that comes With Patch 2.1 , which will give the community even more Tools to build upon.

  Myria

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 542

9/13/13 5:52:05 AM#90

People keep repeating the whole "The OP just raced to the level cap!", "Content locust!", and "You didn't do every single possible thing there is to do!" arguments like they're meaningful.

 

Those lines have been repeated for every content-lite MMO that has been released in the last five years (which, sadly, would be pretty much all of them), in the end it didn't matter. Denigrate the "content locust" if it makes you feel better, pretend a lot of people weren't seeing this as a potential issue even before launch if you must, but don't fool yourself into thinking that the issues the OP is talking about aren't ones common to a good dozen or so MMOs that have been released in recent years and all seen their games fall prey to subscriber bleed on a massive scale.

 

It isn't the 'locust' that are the problem, it's the content -- or lack thereof. MMO worlds are getting smaller and smaller whilst gameplay is getting easier and easier. I thought Rift's game world was tiny at release. Never imagined it would seem big compared to some of what would come after. FFXIV ARR is only the second MMO I've ever seen (Defiance, if it can even really be called an MMO, being the first) where the average player will finish every single quest in the game. Hell, back when I played WoW I seriously doubt I ever completed every quest in one faction's side of a zone, let alone the whole damn game!

 

As for easy, I'd like to think we've now officially scraped the bottom of that barrel, but, depressingly, I suspect not.

 

Eh, argue against it if you want, in the end it's not going to make a whit of difference. No doubt FFXIV ARR will continue on, regardless -- if nothing else, it'll be #1 in Japan 'til doomsday or the next FF MMO release, whichever comes first -- but ignore the OP's observations at your peril, you're going to be hearing them a lot in the coming months and no amount of screaming "Content Locust" will have any effect on the inevitable result.

  Cetra

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/04
Posts: 371

9/13/13 5:58:31 AM#91

patch 2.1 with loads of content is on the horizon. Some ppl are asking for too much for a new mmo in the first free month.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2906

9/13/13 6:13:53 AM#92
Originally posted by Myria

People keep repeating the whole "The OP just raced to the level cap!", "Content locust!", and "You didn't do every single possible thing there is to do!" arguments like they're meaningful.

 

Those lines have been repeated for every content-lite MMO that has been released in the last five years (which, sadly, would be pretty much all of them), in the end it didn't matter. Denigrate the "content locust" if it makes you feel better, pretend a lot of people weren't seeing this as a potential issue even before launch if you must, but don't fool yourself into thinking that the issues the OP is talking about aren't ones common to a good dozen or so MMOs that have been released in recent years and all seen their games fall prey to subscriber bleed on a massive scale.

 

It isn't the 'locust' that are the problem, it's the content -- or lack thereof. MMO worlds are getting smaller and smaller whilst gameplay is getting easier and easier. I thought Rift's game world was tiny at release. Never imagined it would seem big compared to some of what would come after. FFXIV ARR is only the second MMO I've ever seen (Defiance, if it can even really be called an MMO, being the first) where the average player will finish every single quest in the game. Hell, back when I played WoW I seriously doubt I ever completed every quest in one faction's side of a zone, let alone the whole damn game!

 

As for easy, I'd like to think we've now officially scraped the bottom of that barrel, but, depressingly, I suspect not.

 

Eh, argue against it if you want, in the end it's not going to make a whit of difference. No doubt FFXIV ARR will continue on, regardless -- if nothing else, it'll be #1 in Japan 'til doomsday or the next FF MMO release, whichever comes first -- but ignore the OP's observations at your peril, you're going to be hearing them a lot in the coming months and no amount of screaming "Content Locust" will have any effect on the inevitable result.

So which MMO is it that launched with "tons of content" as you seem to be implying ?

 

Your conclusion is correct, but for the wrong reasons. There will be a significant drop in subs (in the western market) a month or two after release. Many people seem to play MMO's for the adrenaline rush of that mad race to level-cap. Once they get there, they realise that actually playing the rest of the game is nowhere as exciting, because progress at level-cap usually slows down to a crawl. So they just declare the game as garbage and move on to the next one.

 

They will never do it differently, regardless of the game. Their MMO attention span is capped at 8 weeks.

  Swids2010

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 209

9/13/13 6:20:26 AM#93

I agree with the OP I am playing and enjoying it a lot at the moment but for a game that has effectively been in development for over 8 years there really isn't a lot of content I know they have said there is more content coming in patch's but I don't think its going to make that much difference.

And before another people flame me for 8 years development I know it launched and failed and they changed the team but however you look at it they have been working on this for a long time.

(Final Fantasy XIV, previously codenamed Rapture (?????, Rapuch??),[18] was first mentioned in August 2005, when Square Enix announced they had begun working on a new MMORPG)

  echolynfan

Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/10
Posts: 721

I ain't got a gat but I gotta soldering gun

9/13/13 6:36:29 AM#94
Originally posted by cybersurfr

With all due respect, this prediction is a bit too early and only applies to content locusts such as yourself. I understand where you are coming from where you are asking for more content NOW. However, you have to consider that not everyone plays the way you do. Some like myself are patiently awaiting the patches to come - Arenas, Golden Saucer, 3-way PVP, housing.

 

Those changes are bound to come and we accept that it will take time. I respect your opinion and your incessant reminder that "you're a big fan who loves the game with rainbows and butterflies", but that doesn't invalidate that which you are saying is something coming out of lack of patience.

LOL..."content locusts" - I like that :)

I have no sympathy for all of these Fates grinders who skip the story and content to get to 50 and then whine. And the crafting DOES matter - Materia makes the crafted gear the best in game but people are too lazy to figure that out as well.

I'm no FF ARR fanboy - this is the 1st time I've played a FF title but it's the best MMO I've played in years. All of the "content locusts" will run off leaving a decent community of great players and quite frankly...we don't need or want that kind of player.

Currently playing as Pete Puma on Excalibur. FF ARR - The best MMO I've played since SWG!

  echolynfan

Novice Member

Joined: 1/26/10
Posts: 721

I ain't got a gat but I gotta soldering gun

9/13/13 6:41:37 AM#95
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by cybersurfr
Originally posted by Voqardeep?
 

You're one to talk when all you care about is combat and FATE leveling lol. That's about the most shallow and average part of the game so at least I agree with you there. If that's all you care about and how easy it is then you will never be satisfied in any of the upcoming games. You will just endlessly and hopelessly complain. If that was all that matters to you in an MMO then I agree - you shouldn't have bought the game. Stop thinking you're special and immune to the "honeymoon phase" - some people unlike you look beyond the combat and loot. You're just the average gamer seeking a pinata that doesn't exist.

 

What you're looking for isn't an MMO. Unless you call a gear tread mill an MMO, then maybe you're right. The problem with that attitude is that kind of game comes to a complete stop once you're done with all the challenges. You completely dismiss how the game's emphasis in crafting makes it a cut above the rest of the more recent MMOs. You disregard how that same emphasis thrives on player activity trading that aids in building the community.

 Not to mention personal housing and Free Company Housing that comes With Patch 2.1 , which will give the community even more Tools to build upon.

Housing will be a big boom to the game and something most "content locusts" don't take part in - mostly because there's nothing to speed level and it doesn't involve killing something.

Currently playing as Pete Puma on Excalibur. FF ARR - The best MMO I've played since SWG!

  h0tNstilettos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/23/13
Posts: 14

9/13/13 6:42:24 AM#96
Originally posted by Rusque

I was betting on 1-2 weeks before the forums get flooded by the "FFARR is not the best game ever I thought it was a few weeks ago!" posts. But I might have to edit down to 1 week until implosion.

At least everyone can go back to WoW for patch 5.4 until the next savior is picked.

ARR, the game itself, is not the problem here. As the OP said the game is excellent. Only problem is that leveling is way too fast, which creates many of the other issues mentioned. I am also a player that takes their time to enjoy everything in the game, and as a result I am not even at level 30 on my highest yet, but even I see FATEs being a major problem.

I've been fearing the same points the OP has made.

  Nightfyre

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/04
Posts: 157

9/13/13 6:56:46 AM#97

Crafting I look at that as for the other jobs you're going to level.  Since your main job has taken most of the quest rewards, leaving the others practically nothing unless you saved up some on your travels and/or buy gear using one of the three factions.  Really I like the fact you can just level up crafting over the other jobs.  Also crafting hasn't been the greatest thing in some games, it's a filler for time and maybe some gear.  Not to say they won't add better in later, right now it has it's uses especially for seals.

Leveling well that's not a game problem, that's a player problem.  How many of the recent games have you seen max levels within the first one to two weeks of release.  People during betas find the fastest route to max out, they take off work and do nothing but play.  So you can't put all the blame on the game, though yes it is true but the scale is tipping towards the players side as the main focus of the problem.  So they scream for new content, and they burn through that within a week and want more, never satisfied because they are selfish.

 

I'm having fun, I can't see it failing since people made the same claim with Star Wars (SWTOR) Rift and a few others and those games are still out there. 

  Hyanmen

Elite Member

Joined: 10/11/06
Posts: 4983

9/13/13 7:05:22 AM#98
Originally posted by Cymdai

Issue #1: Crafting is utterly useless

As I got my LTW to 50, I had a sense of relief. "Alright, I'm done with THAT part of the game..." I thought to myself. I figured with my newfound craft, I'd be able to start making money almost immediately in the game. There is just one small problem; there is no demand for hardly anything. Gear, which should be utilized to a degree by all classes, isn't necessary. Because of the incredible ease of the game, it hasn't been uncommon to see people wearing severely outdated gear throughout the game. I've seen level 40's rocking level 18 armor, and to no real penalty. Since there's no reason for combat classes to buy gear, there's no reason to craft combat gear. Furthermore, combat classes can get gear cheaper/free, and easier simply by doing quests and dungeons. Furthermore, due to Issue#2, people are leveling so fast and efficiently that there's no reason to EVER buy gear! In fact, the irony of crafting +gathering and +crafting gear is that the only people who buy it is fellow crafters and gatherers. Essentially, you're creating gear for crafting because it's mandatory, but crafting has no purpose other than to build more crafting gear...and, of course, materia melding. I basically spent all my gil buying crystals and ingredients to level a craft which is now essentially worthless. Also, since no one needs to buy anything... there is no economy. Gil is essentially used to skilling up a craft, or repairing your end game gear. That's it. And once you lose it, it's 10x harder to make it back, because there is ample supply, and meager demand. This is probably related to the fact that...

At level 26 Armorer I have doubled my gil roughly every 4 days of playing (20k > 40k > 80k > 160k.....) by a couple of hours per day of actually trying to make gil. This is at level 26, not even level 50.

Issue #1: Players create imaginary issues to make it seem like the problem is not on their end.

FF:ARR FATE grinding: People not having fun by doing something not actually intended to get to a point that doesn't really matter as fast as possible. Just so they can do the same thing over and over again to gain a piece of virtual loot.

  Hyanmen

Elite Member

Joined: 10/11/06
Posts: 4983

9/13/13 7:08:23 AM#99
Originally posted by h0tNstilettos
Originally posted by Rusque

I was betting on 1-2 weeks before the forums get flooded by the "FFARR is not the best game ever I thought it was a few weeks ago!" posts. But I might have to edit down to 1 week until implosion.

At least everyone can go back to WoW for patch 5.4 until the next savior is picked.

ARR, the game itself, is not the problem here. As the OP said the game is excellent. Only problem is that leveling is way too fast, which creates many of the other issues mentioned. I am also a player that takes their time to enjoy everything in the game, and as a result I am not even at level 30 on my highest yet, but even I see FATEs being a major problem.

I've been fearing the same points the OP has made.

Having played since the Early Access, and only having lvl23 arcanist as my highest battle class, I will claim that leveling is only as fast as you as an individual make it. If you have a huge urge to get to lvl50 ASAP because there is "nothing" to do before it is your issue, not the game's.

Because the game most definitely gives you the opportunity to actually enjoy leveling and take it slow. The game is not at fault for giving you the opportunity to get to cap fast if you so desire because it also lets you enjoy taking it slow and making every level count.

FF:ARR FATE grinding: People not having fun by doing something not actually intended to get to a point that doesn't really matter as fast as possible. Just so they can do the same thing over and over again to gain a piece of virtual loot.

  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

9/13/13 7:08:59 AM#100
Originally posted by JeroKane
Originally posted by Voqar

 

It bothers me that I feel like a lot of people are botting.  There is simply no way that so many people play their characters all day...and then keep going to craft all night.  Not possible.  But I see it day in and day out on Ultros.  Same people in the merchant area, it's like it's carpeted with crafters at all hours.

 

This is one of the very few RPGs, not just MMORPGs, but all RPGs since Atari 800 where there are no loot drops.  It's so freaking weird.  Crafting crap drops.  That's it.  Not even coins drop.  And hardly anybody is commenting on this.  It makes the game so freaking bland and makes the player economy so incredibly bland.  The loot in general is incredibly generic - crafters/vendors/quests ALL give the exact same items.  You can go for HQ versions via crafting.   Whoopee!  Having good drops be ultra rare would be ok - having them not exist at all is just freakish.

 

We shall see.  I expect more people to wake the heck up.  And I'll be really surprised if SE can keep up with content, given that their overall competence seems to be sorely lacking.

 http://eorzeareborn.com/macro-overview/

/sigh

Yes, it must be perfectly okay to say "/sigh" when you provide an incorrect argument.

The macros you linked to cannot be used to bot as in prolonged afk automated craft grinding/exp grinding.

 

Reason being: you cannot loop in that macro system and you have limited amount of lines to use for your macro (less than 20).

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