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News & Features Discussion  » [Preview] Lord of the Rings Online: Helm's Deep Preview

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56 posts found

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 388

9/10/13 5:42:47 PM#21

The class "revamp" system is a massive change to the core of the game.  No one asked for it, yet they are going through with it (much like SWG NGE).  In short, they are taking away a large number of abilities, then putting in skill instead of your character having lots of things to do you will end up with a small number of skills to use in combat.


They are doing this, well, because that is what GW2 has.  They see it as a positive thing for new players.  If GW2 has 7 abilities and a large number of people playing it, wouldn't it make sense that LOTRO will have a large number of people playing if they reduced the skills by 3/4.  No new players play LOTRO.  The game is too old.  All this will do is drive away most of the veterans.


Beta has just started and the threads that deal with the changes are the ones that are 9 or 10 pages long and they are 90% negative....just like the NGE.


This marks the end of the LOTRO as you knew it.  They are not changing the engine, so combat will always feel clunky.  Instead of having 30 or so abilities to use in combat, you will now have 10.


The only class where some people actually like the changes are the Burglar.  It's pretty much half and half with that class.  The rest are 90% negative.  And certain classes, like the Warden, are so changed that you will not even recognize them.


It's a dark day for LOTRO.....but a banner day for NGE nostalgics!




Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/10
Posts: 246

"Toss me!"

9/10/13 6:17:21 PM#22
Great game, awesome community, good company. I am going to get the 3 months subscription tomorrow!

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 2129

9/10/13 7:22:44 PM#23
I have been waiting and hoping for some player faction vs faction conflict. :-(  not yet.

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/11
Posts: 75

9/10/13 7:55:57 PM#24
The game is still very much alive and active on most of the servers. I play on Winfola and I have yet to see any empty area. I see a lot of people in most of the city hubs as well and quite a few of the outposts in the game. The rumor of this games death have been greatly exaggerated by those that hate a game with a deep lore. But yes WB isn't a very good parent company...

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 143

9/10/13 8:06:38 PM#25

I return to LotRO for every expansion, and I probably will for this one as well.

What I never understood about the combat system was the huge amount of skills. My hunter used only a few skills, and combat tended to get stale with the press 1, press 2, press 3, press 1 if recycled if not press 4 sequences.

I want skills that require positioning and reactions like blocks, parry, evade. I know the guardian has some, but not nearly enough.

Yet, I will continue the path towards Mordor when the time comes. The storyline is just too good to let it be.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/09
Posts: 421

9/10/13 8:14:36 PM#26

To bad this game is grindy and boring as sin.


Spiritsever - AR/Ele - The Secret World
Ashmaker - Ranger < Prophets > - Age of Conan - #1 in Kills
Sweety - Sorceress < Infinite Darkeness > - SWTOR - 2.6K PvP Rating
??? - Pilot - ??? - EVE
Symir - Swordmaster - Warhammer - RR100
Dreadnaught - Rogue - Rift


Advanced Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 1008

9/10/13 9:53:05 PM#27
As someone that has been playing since beta and is a lifer I believe it's a long time coming, honestly. The game is already 6 years old and it's not like its bringing in new players in droves. It's time for a LOTRO 2.0. I feel combat definitely needs an upgrade and personally, I've never cared for the trait system. Now I'm not going to say the revamp Turbine is implementing is super awesome (since I've not played it yet). A revamp is due nonetheless. This has been my favorite theme park mmo for the past 6 years that I keep returning to.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3675

9/10/13 10:14:52 PM#28
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by keithian
How is the population doing in this game? I haven't played for a few years and was on Landroval which was probably the best community I had been a part of when compared to any other game I've played. I remember all the forum goers stating how this game would fail, boring, etc...meanwhile they are release a huge expansion and over 6 years later the game is still going. Anyway looks like a good expansion.

Honestly the playerbase is on the low-side for it being a LOTRO MMO, but there are people that play and if you find a good guild all the better. I have trouble getting myself to play because it's all too much themepark for me, but it is a good game, and LOTRO is the perfect IP for a themepark MMO. I guess it's a fun time-sink now and then. I just wish a new LOTRO MMO would come out with improved graphics. 


Warner Brothers doesn't seem to like to hand out the IP very much for games to be made out of the LOTRO universe which is a shame... (Either that or they just charge so much that few developers are actually interested).


 LoTRO was way too much of a themepark for me also.....I also would ahve really liked to have played on the evil side also as it would have been fun to play orcs and such.......It was just way too quest driven (not much of a quester) and got repetitive quick.


Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

9/10/13 10:17:56 PM#29
Originally posted by Gardavsshade
Originally posted by Po_gg
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Population depends on the server you choose.  I'm on Brandywine, and it seems to hum along quite well with players.  There's even people running around the lower level areas.

There's the Bounder event now (alongside with Farmer's Faire), and while it's not an exact measurement, the "race" towards the Boon is pretty much showing an overall population / activity rate on the servers. 4 of the german ones are already got the Boon :) and among the english ones so far only Brandywine finished it.


As for the preview, "lore fans keep an eye out" - I definitely will :)

"There will plenty of interaction with Eowyn, (following her path in the books)" - cool, she's a great character with nice storyline

"before battle choosing Vanguard, Officer, Engineer" - it kinda reminds me of STO :)

"classes .... are getting revamped" - yep... that's my biggest concern since they first announced it... LotRO was never big on builds and theory crafting, but what was leaked so far is a huge stepback even from that average state. I think there's always a Hope token that it won't be too bad...

This is what is concerning myself, my Wife who plays, my Daughter, our Friends....

I have been involved with LotRO before it WAS LotRO, back when it was going to be MEO. I joined a Guild named Safe Havens of Arda with other Players... Fern, Groan, Adrianna, Adoreth, Barstoll, many other good People I miss dearly.... all have moved on in several ways.

When F2P happened to LotRO I was the one ranting and raving about it. My wife thought to be honest did not agree with me and thought the Turbine Staff Member was correct that said I was "tilting at Windmills" about the changes with F2P.

Now my Wife and Friends agree with me.... they miss how LotRO was before F2P and they wish it had never happened. They feel that LotRO has been "cheapened" by F2P and lessened. Their comments and words, not mine. Ever since I had that argument with a certain Staff member I have kept my opinions to myself about what happens to LotRO and whether I thought the changes were good or bad. I honestly don't think anyone of important position at Turbine cares one rat's petunia what some of us Players think or want anymore.... they did in the beginning, or at least they convinced us they did...

Now LotRO gets another MakeOver.... and this time I know it's a waste of time to say anything at all on the LotRO Forums about this.... or here either.... and since I have no desire to ever interact with some Members of Turbine's Staff again....  this time I will let the hammer fall as it will. Good or Bad, Small Change only or NGE style debacle, I won't try to tell anyone at Turbine or the Players what could be done or why. Whether I pay for my Wife and Daughter's Subs (or whether I continue to play) after HD depends on just how things turn out.

I agree it would have been great if it never happened, but F2P saved LotRO financially. It's also paying for these expansions and whatnot.  It likely would have seen sunset a couple years ago, without it.

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.


Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/06
Posts: 759

Jesus is Lord.

9/10/13 11:11:03 PM#30
Originally posted by Sovrath
I'll be honest, I was hoping helm's deep was going to be a pvp thing.


MMORPGs are great to look forward to after a hard day of work, but heaven is the ultimate reward for those who live Christ-like.


Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 563

9/11/13 2:29:29 AM#31
*yawn* I'll be passing this one


Advanced Member

Joined: 12/17/06
Posts: 200

9/11/13 2:54:37 AM#32

Waiting for this. I am excited about they beauty of Rohan and my dream expansion pack so far was Rohan. If Helm's Deep take lanscape that great and quests that interesting - I would go for HD.

Turbine said clearly about PvP: majority of players were not interested in it, hence it is not priority. Seems pretty logic to me.

Class revamps - I am very cautious about this. The fact is, there are many skills I never used and will never use as a Champion. So, if they just delete them, it won't hurt. Class trees, like that of a steed? Not sure. They would had to revamp deed rewards (now there are deeds taht advance one skill). However, this may work and I do hope it will.


Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2621

9/11/13 3:22:17 AM#33
Originally posted by koboldfodder

The class "revamp" system is a massive change to the core of the game.  No one asked for it, yet they are going through with it (much like SWG NGE).  In short, they are taking away a large number of abilities, then putting in skill instead of your character having lots of things to do you will end up with a small number of skills to use in combat.


The only class where some people actually like the changes are the Burglar.  It's pretty much half and half with that class.  The rest are 90% negative.  And certain classes, like the Warden, are so changed that you will not even recognize them.

I agree (with the snipped part as well). Icewhite asked in an another thread to name old mmo's without NGE-like update, I'd love to enter LotRO there but I couldn't, because of this revamp.


LotRO already had many changes during these years, but never at this magnitude and so widespread. LI's affected only the endgame grind, the same with Radiance, skirmishes are optional, f2p switch haven't changed a thing in gameplay beside monetisation. Then removing Radiance and introducing Finesse (which later helped in wrecking wardens), fully rewriting minstrels (the first change that really affected me, I loved the old minis) forebode that changes are coming... Like merging resistances, physical and tactical mastery, the stat changes... which was their first, (almost) full-spread messing with the core of the game (cappy was unaffected :) ). But even that change was only marginal to the gameplay itself, it was only some dumbing down.


This coming class revamp is like an earthquake compared to the above. It won't chase me away ofc, I'm way too deep into Middle-earth... and I'm still hoping. Even if it's futile.

Folks like the new burg... well, not much help to me, I rarely play burg... (or sin, rogue in other games, stealthy sneaky burst damage never was my cup of tea :) )


Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5697

9/11/13 4:05:04 AM#34

One of the best MMO's ever is still making cracking good content. The pointless class changes do make you wonder though, such changes involve a lot of time and effort, time which would have been spent better elsewhere.

I have to wonder do these changes make the game more cash shop friendly or just simplify the game? We have seen changes made to Lotro to make it cash shop friendly before. Simplifying your MMO seems to be something all the big MMO names end up doing purely to try to get in a few more players. But I have only skimmed the new changes so far so cannot be sure of what they are doing.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/15/06
Posts: 413

9/11/13 1:49:53 PM#35
I stopped playing Lotro after spending thousands of hours into the same pvp zone for 5 years. Won't be coming back until that changes, shame because I love Lotr but the clear favoring of everything pve in this game drove me away.

Dozens of MMO's, RTS's, FPS's, etc.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 7157

9/11/13 8:00:02 PM#36

You have to wonder about  those that complain about pvp.  Lotro is a pve game.  The pvp has always been a after thought and always will.   Personally most of us like it that way.  

There are plenty of pvp games where pvp is a much better fit.  Pvp just does not fit into the Lotro lore at all.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5697

9/12/13 4:59:57 AM#37
Originally posted by Ozmodan

You have to wonder about  those that complain about pvp.  Lotro is a pve game.  The pvp has always been a after thought and always will.   Personally most of us like it that way.  

There are plenty of pvp games where pvp is a much better fit.  Pvp just does not fit into the Lotro lore at all.

I disagree, PVP was an after thought for Lotro and it was a shame they went down that route, but their solution made sense overall. PvMonster was a good attempt at bringing PvP to the game. I myself would not have wanted to see Hobbit versus Hobbit, so the idea of having a PvM zone was a best fit. It would have been nice to have Helms Deep as a new PvM zone that's the only mistake I think they have made with this.

As to lore, you remember all the fighting the fellowship did, all those great battles? LotR is made for PvP of some sort.




Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2621

9/12/13 5:31:12 AM#38
Originally posted by Scot
Originally posted by Ozmodan

You have to wonder about  those that complain about pvp.  Lotro is a pve game.  The pvp has always been a after thought and always will.   Personally most of us like it that way.  

There are plenty of pvp games where pvp is a much better fit.  Pvp just does not fit into the Lotro lore at all.

I disagree, PVP was an after thought for Lotro and it was a shame they went down that route, but their solution made sense overall. PvMonster was a good attempt at bringing PvP to the game. I myself would not have wanted to see Hobbit versus Hobbit, so the idea of having a PvM zone was a best fit. It would have been nice to have Helms Deep as a new PvM zone that's the only mistake I think they have made with this.

As to lore, you remember all the fighting the fellowship did, all those great battles? LotR is made for PvP of some sort.

Ozmodan's right LotRO is indeed a PvE game, designed as one, launched as one. The Moors was slapped onto its back later, to somewhat please the pvp crowd :) (which was not-so niche back then as today)

And in this I agree with you, it was a great solution. There was a Poll thread around here on pvp earlier, where I said too, that while best pvp is the non-existant one ( :) ) but if it's a Must to implement pvp for market or pr reasons then LotRO's 'Moors is the next best thing: a fully separate instance, with fully separate pvp classes and consumables and loot, etc. With absolutely no effect on the (real :) ) game - except the mild world buff. And, opposing the common belief, it never was abandoned, Turbine tweaking the creeps a lot, not to mention they added Defiler a while after PvMP started, so the tech is there, there's a (slight) chance for more additional creep classes too in the future. Ok, a very slight chance :)


Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3067

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

9/12/13 5:07:13 PM#39

I not played this since it went free to play. I gave up on the game years ago.  We the wife and I both had lifetime memberships and I guess today was the first time I logged in in 644 days.  LoL. 

To be honest after what all I read sounds like the revamp to classes that I forgotten how to play sounds more like the NGE to me than anything else. 

I guess some folks still play this game.  I looked on my friends list and most everybody been at least 2 years or more since the logged in save on guild member who logged in 4 months ago.  I was shocked that I still had my guild as I though they done away with them if you were inactive for 90 days. 



Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/23/10
Posts: 38

Violence is the last resort of the incompetent.

9/13/13 1:10:07 AM#40

I'd like to remind everyone leaking information from the beta testing that they are still under NDA, whether they like it or not. Thus, any opinion based on information from beta testing should be kept strictly to the LOTRO beta forums.

Regarding class changes, there has been already some major revamp of some classes (though not all) with the RIse of Isengard expansion. Good examples are Minstrels (healer role) and Wardens (tank/dps role). There were a lot of complaints then, especially about Minstrels, but it worked out just fine.

If you don't feel confident of preordering the expansion now, just wait for a time until the NDA is lifted, or open beta (if there is one), and judge for yourselves.

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