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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Guild Wars 2: Never Perfect at Launch

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46 posts found
  Jyiiga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1019

9/09/13 9:03:24 PM#21
PvP is still a balance wreck.
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5821

9/09/13 9:11:47 PM#22
Originally posted by Ayulin
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Mediocre, compared to what exactly pip? The issue is the modern ride impatient instant gratification crowd. Pc game players have known there is a trade of when you want a game to release early, the trick is being able to turn things around quickly. Gogo look up 'agile development'. And then go lookup waterfall (aka Diablo 3 for example)

No qualifier necessary to call something "mediocre". Mediocre means "mediocre", as in "not exceptional", and that can be determined on the merits of the product itself, no comparison required.

Also, in your response, you're basically demonstrating exactly what they're getting at.

People have become so complacent and accepting about paying full price for unfinished/buggy products, that someone stepping up and saying "enough is enough" is labeled as "impatient instant gratification".

So, though you intended to refute what they said, you succeeded only in demonstrating it.


Tell me, when you go to the store and buy a product - be it food, clothing or any other product - would you be okay with it if they came back with an incomplete product, or something that otherwise didn't work as it was supposed to once you got it home? If they said "Oh, yeah, there's a fix for that, but it's still in production. We'll get it to you when it's ready", would you consider it "impatient instant gratification" to say 'uh, no that's not okay. I paid for a product as advertised"? I'm betting you wouldn't. I'm betting most wouldn't.

So, why is it then okay when a game developer does the same thing?

Define the attributes of exceptional and mediocre then. Mediocrity and excellence both need to have a reference or we don't know what the standard is. They are comparative terms, if not against other games, then against a defined and agreed upon standard.  Something is only mediocre if it doesn't meet that standard of excellence.

So if you're going to diatribe and posture and point fingers at the rest of us for accepting mediocrity, point towards the standard.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Destai

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/31/09
Posts: 496

9/09/13 9:49:02 PM#23
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by Destai
The problem with the game isn't the technical issues. It's their utter defiance towards adding new content that actually stays in the game. A year later we still have nothing worth playing past the vanilla content.

I'm sorry, but what?

I don't think what he said was that complicated to understand. ANet really hasn't added any "lasting" content. Most of it has been temporary, which for a lot of players is a big turnoff.  Also their living story is repetitive and boring. It's no wonder people love the Adventure Box! It's a change of pace from what's usually added for updates in GW2.

Again, what?

 

Edited - Oh okay was waiting for some truth to be said, thanks Scalpess, I wasn't sure if we where all talking about the same game maybe it was a confusion between Guild Wars 1 and 2 and they where talking about 1, but then I saw the SAB mention which confused me even more.

 

Hey, sorry for not getting back to this sooner. I should have been more detailed, but I was at work and couldn't devote much to the topic at hand. For that I apologize. My point was that the technical issues pale in comparison to the lack of content. They're certainly being addressed sooner and communicated by ArenaNet in a better fashion. I'd hope a year later they'd have added more content. They've added some quality of life features and adding a few more later this year. Some of those features should have been in at launch. 

I understand that many people are miffed at the troubles of the FF-XIV launch, but those are short terms as so many technical issues are in these games. The real problem this game, and others, face is content. 

Current MMOs: Wildstar, Guild Wars 2, the Secret World, World of Warcraft

Past Loves: Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Everquest

  bookworm438

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/20/10
Posts: 649

9/09/13 10:31:01 PM#24
Ayulin,
There is nothing to be complacent about. This is not CoD. A game as large and complex as MMOs will always have issues at launch. Its the price we pay for the games we choose. There has been no MMO in history that ever launched without its fair share of bugs and problems. In fact, GW2 launch is one of the better ones. You must be new to MMOs.

Again, an MMO is not CoD. The game is never finished until the last server is shut off. The only thing that happens is that it reaches a point where you can start letting people come in and play.

No developer can afford the man power it would take to squash every bug. They have beta tests, but those are still mostly for squashing the large bugs before the game launches. It takes time to find that one small bug in that one event in that one zone that happens only some of the time.

Again, its not being complacent. Its being understanding of the type of genre we are playing. As long as the developers respond in a timely manner, then there is nothing to worry about.

And whether you choose to believe it or not, the condition of the world at launch nowadays is much better than it was in the early days of MMOs. Its gotten a lot better, but you are never going to have a perfect launch without problems, especially as games continue to grow more complex

TL;DR if you are expecting absolute perfect launches of an MMO, or any complex game, you should pick a new hobby. You are only going to be disappointed by reality.
  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3496

9/09/13 10:48:27 PM#25

I am still waiting for features to be added that will make GW2 more of a MMO. It still lacks activities next to combat. Crafting is just the same typical node grind like in most MMO's.

My main petpeeve about GW2 is the playerculling in cities. It prevents GW2 from having holiday events like they had in GW1. Sure, the holiday pve content and the pvp gimmicks are fun, but if it takes so long for players to show up on your screen when roaming the cities, it just messes with my immersion. Floating names are just annoying. All the socializing in cities during holiday events are LFG LFG LFG LFG. There is just no reason to stand around and socialize if all the holiday event is about filling some achievement bar.

No guildhalls yet? Playerhousing? Atm, it feels more like a game where you do combat to fill achievement bars. All the MMO's that had a long lasting appeal to me, had activities next to combat.

  bookworm438

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/20/10
Posts: 649

9/09/13 10:52:09 PM#26
Someforumguy: there are minigames in. Player culling in PvE is gone. LFG was implemented with this last update(or the next one).
  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3496

9/09/13 11:07:42 PM#27
Originally posted by bookworm438
Someforumguy: there are minigames in. Player culling in PvE is gone. LFG was implemented with this last update(or the next one).

The loading of players in cities is still very very slow. You still see floating names long before players load. And you don't have to move far for them to disappear again. I don't have this problem in any other MMO (except Dragon's Nest, where I thought it was highly annoying too. But then, cities in that game are just basically a lobby for instances) or in PVE areas in GW2 for that matter.

Even GW1 had guildhalls where we gathered before starting a GvG match or some PVE. Places like that are perfect, also when some of the group want to take a break and the rest stays to chat in the mean time. Sideactivities and places owned by players or guilds, are what sets a MMO apart from lobby games to me.

In GW2, guilds are nothing but a chatchannel and some extra achievement bars. Maybe being able to join multiple guilds wasn't such a good idea for this reason either. The socializing in GW2 is almost non existant except for the very business like LFG. In this aspect it almost feels like a LoL lobbygame or some game like that. But maybe this is the way that most MMO players approach a MMO nowadays.  I do realise that I am talking about my preference here.

  Thomson

Novice Member

Joined: 9/17/06
Posts: 245

9/09/13 11:12:39 PM#28

I agree with bookworm438.
For me it's not only what happens at launch but what happens after launch and
personally i think ANet did a great job with the developement of the game after
the initial launch. Most if not all of the initial problems where gone a few month
after release, they started adding new content and system features rather quickly and
responded well to customer feedback.


I also believe Guild Wars 2 had one of the best launches ever.
There wheren't that many problems and the major ones such as overflow quirks in parties
where fixed rather quickly. It was also one of the very very few big games where we had
almost no issues with queque's, server downtimes or other errors completely locking you out of the game


The thing that stands out for me is that they are really listening to their customer feedback. Many people are crying for more permanent content with the living world updates
and what was their answer?


We’ve been playing around so far this year with a lot of different concepts to see what works for a living world game, and see what players liked and didn’t like. Based on all of your feedback, you’ll be seeing a greater degree of permanent content built into future living world releases in 2013.
Source

There may have been a few things that didn't go as well as they hoped, such as southsun, but they learn from it and try to improve and that is what matters.
Colin Johannson also said that they basically build the foundation such as seasonal events,
core mechanic improvements and so on in the past and now they are able to focus more
on new content itself. To me that sounds like a bright feature if they keep up the pace !

Here is a great Youtube Video showing alot of the content GW2 has released in the first year

  crazynanny

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/10
Posts: 175

9/10/13 12:44:45 AM#29
I've seen few MMO(and their expansions) launches and GW2 had best one. It had it's share of bugs and issues but the main deal was there - you could easily buy game, add code, log in, create character, select server and play. FF XIV had a re-launch lately and still managed to make it a mess.
  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 5203

9/10/13 2:30:09 AM#30
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by Destai
The problem with the game isn't the technical issues. It's their utter defiance towards adding new content that actually stays in the game. A year later we still have nothing worth playing past the vanilla content.

I'm sorry, but what?

I don't think what he said was that complicated to understand. ANet really hasn't added any "lasting" content. Most of it has been temporary, which for a lot of players is a big turnoff.  Also their living story is repetitive and boring. It's no wonder people love the Adventure Box! It's a change of pace from what's usually added for updates in GW2.

Again, what?

 

Edited - Oh okay was waiting for some truth to be said, thanks Scalpess, I wasn't sure if we where all talking about the same game maybe it was a confusion between Guild Wars 1 and 2 and they where talking about 1, but then I saw the SAB mention which confused me even more.

 

It is true. They really haven´t added any "real" lasting content (yet)!

It was all temporary event (now living story) stuff!  Most of it rehashed/reskinned from previous events... turning it into a bit of repetitive grind.

It´s basically similar to what TRION did in the first year With RIFT! They were able to push out a New event nearly every month! But it was basically just rehashed/reskinned stuff from the previous event.

It´s the only way they can push out frequent content updates like that.

Releasing "unique" content every month is a hell lot harder and much more time consuming and expensive to do.

The only Dev doing it so far is Funcom With The Secret World and you can see they cannot manage to stick to monthly issue updates anymore (altho that is mostly due to the extensive lay offs they suffered in the past year :( ).

 
  cinos

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/05
Posts: 975

9/10/13 4:21:08 AM#31
Originally posted by someforumguy

I am still waiting for features to be added that will make GW2 more of a MMO. It still lacks activities next to combat. Crafting is just the same typical node grind like in most MMO's.

My main petpeeve about GW2 is the playerculling in cities. It prevents GW2 from having holiday events like they had in GW1. Sure, the holiday pve content and the pvp gimmicks are fun, but if it takes so long for players to show up on your screen when roaming the cities, it just messes with my immersion. Floating names are just annoying. All the socializing in cities during holiday events are LFG LFG LFG LFG. There is just no reason to stand around and socialize if all the holiday event is about filling some achievement bar.

No guildhalls yet? Playerhousing? Atm, it feels more like a game where you do combat to fill achievement bars. All the MMO's that had a long lasting appeal to me, had activities next to combat.

There are quite a few activities now. Keg brawling, moa racing, and a tag minigame in southsun to name a few.

Also culling is gone now. Completely. You can see everyone in cities.

Crafting is still the same though, and guildhalls are still pending.

 

Naturally it's clear that you haven't played in a while, so just wanted to let you know that they've fixed some of the issues you had. :)

  Scalpless

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1310

9/10/13 4:56:30 AM#32
Originally posted by JeroKane

It is true. They really haven´t added any "real" lasting content (yet)!

It was all temporary event (now living story) stuff!  Most of it rehashed/reskinned from previous events... turning it into a bit of repetitive grind.

 

Uh, all the things I listed in my previous post are permanent.

  Bloodaxes

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 2632

9/10/13 5:24:36 AM#33

I'm surprised OP didn't mention Arah gate being bugged for weeks, dare I say a month?

There was also a specific skill point I and many people had to switch servers to complete it then go back to our previous server.

----

I'm no longer playing the game because to be brutally honest fractals destroyed the game.

I'm sorry but it's true.

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3564

9/10/13 5:56:47 AM#34

I don't think GW2 is 'the best game ever' but you have to credit ANet for adding in huge amount of content for free and they are constantly fixing the game.

Some of the fixes should have been in from the start (Auction House I'm looking at you!!) but they are getting there.

 

Now if they can just somehow get decent writers to write a story that makes sense or is actually interesting....

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Sajman01

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/13
Posts: 208

9/10/13 6:39:29 AM#35
Originally posted by Scalpless
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by Destai
The problem with the game isn't the technical issues. It's their utter defiance towards adding new content that actually stays in the game. A year later we still have nothing worth playing past the vanilla content.

I'm sorry, but what?

I don't think what he said was that complicated to understand. ANet really hasn't added any "lasting" content. Most of it has been temporary, which for a lot of players is a big turnoff.  Also their living story is repetitive and boring. It's no wonder people love the Adventure Box! It's a change of pace from what's usually added for updates in GW2.

Fractals

Southsun Shore

40+ dynamic events

An overhaul of AC

Scarlet's invasions

New sPvP maps

Weapon and armor skins and maybe some other stuff I forgot

Sure, a large part of the content was temporary, but do "we still have nothing worth playing past the vanilla content"? No, we have a lot. Besides, outside of Southsun, the new content is as good as or better than vanilla content.

 

All of the content you mentioned came before February. Scarlet's invasions aren't new, they're just dynamic events with a name.

I'm no Guild Wars 2 hater by any means but you have to admit they've added almost no content to the game since the February guild mission patch. They've added Achievement rewards, WvW ranks, and Ascended gear but none of these are actual content. They are rewards for completing already existing content.

All I see is ArenaNet constantly throwing shinies at people to get them to continue to keep playing, I suppose that's alright for some individuals but I'd like something a bit more substantial. A 45 minute dungeon with 2 difficult encounters and a 5 minute solo encounter just isn't cutting it for me given they've had 6 months.

 

  User Deleted
9/10/13 7:09:42 AM#36
Still plenty of bugged dynamic events.
  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1659

9/10/13 7:23:54 AM#37
Originally posted by Scalpless
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by Destai
The problem with the game isn't the technical issues. It's their utter defiance towards adding new content that actually stays in the game. A year later we still have nothing worth playing past the vanilla content.

I'm sorry, but what?

I don't think what he said was that complicated to understand. ANet really hasn't added any "lasting" content. Most of it has been temporary, which for a lot of players is a big turnoff.  Also their living story is repetitive and boring. It's no wonder people love the Adventure Box! It's a change of pace from what's usually added for updates in GW2.

Fractals

Southsun Shore

40+ dynamic events

An overhaul of AC

Scarlet's invasions

New sPvP maps

Weapon and armor skins and maybe some other stuff I forgot

Sure, a large part of the content was temporary, but do "we still have nothing worth playing past the vanilla content"? No, we have a lot. Besides, outside of Southsun, the new content is as good as or better than vanilla content.

 

Fractals (first glimpse at the future), Southsun Cove and many of the events were released in the first few months meaning they were held back from release so not produced in the year since release. An overhaul of a dungeon is not new content its repairing broken content. New sPvP maps but no new modes of play. Adding weapons and armour skins to a game with a lack of weapon and armour diversity, yep awesome stuff Arenanet. 

 

A game with a fantastic world is now reduced to instanced rehashed "living story" where you just click stuff to fill up achievements, grind bosses for gold because of the DR all around the world itself, endure amateur hour stories with equally bad voice acting and new awesome time gated gear and crafting systems. While they pretend they are working on what to do with the future of the game as revenue drops and they try to maneuver players into the cash shop. Maybe they need a new manifesto? what a waste of a beautiful world full of exploration and possibilities, but hey its B2P after all, though they gave you a wallet for all the pointless currencies, woohoo!

 

To me Arenanet misjudged the market and are now scrambling to get to players to log in and spend money as the manifesto dream lies shattered on the ground.

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  Snigerknud

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/13
Posts: 60

9/10/13 7:25:31 AM#38

feel they have a strong passion for their game

They are very involved in making their game perfectly and I love them for that..

 

  RizelStar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

9/10/13 7:50:39 AM#39
Originally posted by Destai
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by Destai
The problem with the game isn't the technical issues. It's their utter defiance towards adding new content that actually stays in the game. A year later we still have nothing worth playing past the vanilla content.

I'm sorry, but what?

I don't think what he said was that complicated to understand. ANet really hasn't added any "lasting" content. Most of it has been temporary, which for a lot of players is a big turnoff.  Also their living story is repetitive and boring. It's no wonder people love the Adventure Box! It's a change of pace from what's usually added for updates in GW2.

Again, what?

 

Edited - Oh okay was waiting for some truth to be said, thanks Scalpess, I wasn't sure if we where all talking about the same game maybe it was a confusion between Guild Wars 1 and 2 and they where talking about 1, but then I saw the SAB mention which confused me even more.

 

Hey, sorry for not getting back to this sooner. I should have been more detailed, but I was at work and couldn't devote much to the topic at hand. For that I apologize. My point was that the technical issues pale in comparison to the lack of content. They're certainly being addressed sooner and communicated by ArenaNet in a better fashion. I'd hope a year later they'd have added more content. They've added some quality of life features and adding a few more later this year. Some of those features should have been in at launch. 

I understand that many people are miffed at the troubles of the FF-XIV launch, but those are short terms as so many technical issues are in these games. The real problem this game, and others, face is content. 

You know,  I wasn't gonna respond at first cause I was like "Okay now these people are just discrediting A-Nets hard work on releasing content so they can feel better about not liking the game." Yet I figured "Aww what they heck let me state some obvious stuff alongside some true stuff."(Dang it why I use the word stuff.)

So a few months ago, I sat down and thought to myself  "Why in the world is content being released whether it's temporary or permanent never enough for people(I can't say some or many)?" After looking at  other MMos content release, which go irrelevant right after the next released,  I then realized that content isn't even the issue with a lot of MMOs, it's just what is content to people, not only that but see it's also obvious that A-NETs plan was to expand on the core game rather than the actual map itself.  

That means it is not even the real problem these games face, it's more so the people, you have people that want quality, people that want quantity, then people that want both. However it's all subjective to them, see many that play GW2 have gotten a lot of content especially if played weekly, but as they see that content that's to be played and mean something, you then have people who will for their own reason not count that content being used in game as content because, it is temp or some other reason. ha ha come to think of it it's also a problem as to why certain payment models will never work for the long run these days.

TL:DR maybe more understandable version any way - What I'm getting at is MMOs but for the sake of it, GW2 has released a lot, the only thing is which is obvious, unfortunately, it was stuff not released for you and others(can't say some or many) again unfortunately, but eh that's life, can't go everybody's way.

That being said,    mate.

 

 

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  tom_gore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

9/10/13 7:54:07 AM#40

They need to fix the terrible skill lag in WvW ASAP. They have competitive WvW leagues starting next month and currently big sieges are an unplayable mess.

Other than that I'm pretty happy with the game.

 

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