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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Sleep System To Limit Daily Playtime to 8-10 Hours?

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197 posts found
  User Deleted
9/09/13 3:22:43 PM#121

I don't agree at all at capping or restricting a player's experience. Despite real life problems that might arise from an obsession with something like MMO's, this can be related to many other "addictive" things such as alcohol etc. Where you can do it in moderation but it becomes an issue if done excessively. The moderation of consumption should be under the player's control and not placed upon the backs of developers. I doubt developers create these games to force players to "power level" or "spend all day to achieve something", this is entirely the player's doing and motivation, so the responsibility shouldn't be placed upon them when they are merely trying to provide a service for many.


Restrictions and forcing people off a game with built-in mechanics aside, I do support providing INCENTIVES (not RESTRICTIONS) to getting players to log off. Perhaps providing a bonus for logging off for X amount of time etc. Rested experience has been implemented to help provide an incentive for players logging off, but I don't think its strong enough. Perhaps something like EVE online's learning abilities or skills but maybe being able to learn a select group of skills/abilities only while logged off etc. Ultimately, I believe the choice and responsibilities of having that choice should be placed upon the player.


Also, lets remember that the power levelers/gamers in MMO's generally are in a minority. Most players tend to experience MMO's at a more casual level due to having interests, social life outside of these games etc. Implementing systems to restrict a minority doesn't seem to be efficient use of a company's or developers' time.

  bubbabill

Novice Member

Joined: 5/23/13
Posts: 82

9/09/13 5:10:34 PM#122
lol i think the poll speaks for itself.  76% think its bad idea /thread
  DrCokePepsi

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 163

What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion.
~Sephiroth FFVII

9/09/13 5:12:00 PM#123


Originally posted by Arclan
I am a fan of restrictions that limit how fast players can level.


You may have gotten more "yes" votes if you worded it differently, rather than specifying 8-10 hours a day as the max. A player may not have been able to logon all week; and wants to pull an all nighter on the weekend.


Diminishing returns is another option; or an xp curve:

xp boost during the first 5 hours of the week.
normal xp for 5 to 40 hours.
diminished xp after 40 hours.


I like the diminished XP idea, giving players a timeframe to reap ultimate benefit, after that frame it encourages them to go workout or something and proceed to follow their ambition the next day.

Personally, I wouldn't like a forced anything, only for the reason that there may be special circumstances that would otherwise upset you. For example, you and your friend have a week off from work, and you have no plans this specific week, and you two decide to play the game for a ridiculous amount of time as a personal challenge, not being able to do that would be very annoying.

I personally don't play for more than 8 hours excpet a rare instance, maybe that one HARDCORE day every few months where i just geek out for a majority of the daylight hours with my guildmates or buddies, but not being able to do that if you wanted to would be an annoyance.

I agree with a diminished xp system or something though, that seems pretty cool.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4688

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

9/09/13 5:27:08 PM#124
Originally posted by DrCokePepsi

 


Originally posted by Arclan
I am a fan of restrictions that limit how fast players can level.

 


You may have gotten more "yes" votes if you worded it differently, rather than specifying 8-10 hours a day as the max. A player may not have been able to logon all week; and wants to pull an all nighter on the weekend.


Diminishing returns is another option; or an xp curve:

xp boost during the first 5 hours of the week.
normal xp for 5 to 40 hours.
diminished xp after 40 hours.



 

I like the diminished XP idea, giving players a timeframe to reap ultimate benefit, after that frame it encourages them to go workout or something and proceed to follow their ambition the next day.

Personally, I wouldn't like a forced anything, only for the reason that there may be special circumstances that would otherwise upset you. For example, you and your friend have a week off from work, and you have no plans this specific week, and you two decide to play the game for a ridiculous amount of time as a personal challenge, not being able to do that would be very annoying.

I personally don't play for more than 8 hours excpet a rare instance, maybe that one HARDCORE day every few months where i just geek out for a majority of the daylight hours with my guildmates or buddies, but not being able to do that if you wanted to would be an annoyance.

I agree with a diminished xp system or something though, that seems pretty cool.

OMG.

Something me and Dr.CokePepsi don't disagree on.

I actually don't mind this idea.  I rarely look at the xp bar anyway, only when I'm bored, and at that point I usually stop playing anyway.  Reduce my xp?  fine.  Just don't say I can't play.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  DrCokePepsi

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 163

What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion.
~Sephiroth FFVII

9/09/13 8:11:47 PM#125


Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by DrCokePepsi  

Originally posted by Arclan I am a fan of restrictions that limit how fast players can level.   You may have gotten more "yes" votes if you worded it differently, rather than specifying 8-10 hours a day as the max. A player may not have been able to logon all week; and wants to pull an all nighter on the weekend. Diminishing returns is another option; or an xp curve: xp boost during the first 5 hours of the week. normal xp for 5 to 40 hours. diminished xp after 40 hours.
  I like the diminished XP idea, giving players a timeframe to reap ultimate benefit, after that frame it encourages them to go workout or something and proceed to follow their ambition the next day. Personally, I wouldn't like a forced anything, only for the reason that there may be special circumstances that would otherwise upset you. For example, you and your friend have a week off from work, and you have no plans this specific week, and you two decide to play the game for a ridiculous amount of time as a personal challenge, not being able to do that would be very annoying. I personally don't play for more than 8 hours excpet a rare instance, maybe that one HARDCORE day every few months where i just geek out for a majority of the daylight hours with my guildmates or buddies, but not being able to do that if you wanted to would be an annoyance. I agree with a diminished xp system or something though, that seems pretty cool.
OMG.

Something me and Dr.CokePepsi don't disagree on.

I actually don't mind this idea.  I rarely look at the xp bar anyway, only when I'm bored, and at that point I usually stop playing anyway.  Reduce my xp?  fine.  Just don't say I can't play.



God-damn!

The world is ending lmfaoo.
Yea Runescape did something *almost* like that, not really, but it was the double-xp weekends every once in a while, so during the week I'd do what would need to be done, do some running and working out more than the normal twice a week, possibly not even touching the game at all and just saving it all for the weekends and it was fun too.

  muffins89

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1254

9/09/13 8:24:47 PM#126
a lot of games already offer this in the form of parental controls.

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  seacow1g

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/27/13
Posts: 260

 
OP  9/09/13 9:16:42 PM#127
Originally posted by muffins89
a lot of games already offer this in the form of parental controls.

You're focusing on the health part. Parental controls do nothing to fix pacing, pressure to overplay,  gold farming etc. The average MMO players are not children, they are adults and do not benefit from parental controls at all.....unless their husbands/wives are using it on them.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4688

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

9/09/13 9:28:02 PM#128
Originally posted by seacow1g
Originally posted by muffins89
a lot of games already offer this in the form of parental controls.

You're focusing on the health part. Parental controls do nothing to fix pacing, pressure to overplay,  gold farming etc. The average MMO players are not children, they are adults and do not benefit from parental controls at all.....unless their husbands/wives are using it on them.

Time limits won't fix pressure to play, neither will it fix farming bots... it will increase it because time is now a valuable commodity.  If you want to get rid of that stuff you have to make things so common that it is pointless.

Fix gold farming by making loot so numerous, or so worthless that there is no point to farming.  Like CoH before the whatever the architect came in.  There was buff drops but they were so common it was worthless.

Get rid of leveling pressure by making leveling so long it is pointless to even try and get to cap, or get rid of leveling completely.

The only way to get rid of them is to make them worthless, not more valuable.

Make

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  seacow1g

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/27/13
Posts: 260

 
OP  9/09/13 9:33:35 PM#129
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by seacow1g
Originally posted by muffins89
a lot of games already offer this in the form of parental controls.

You're focusing on the health part. Parental controls do nothing to fix pacing, pressure to overplay,  gold farming etc. The average MMO players are not children, they are adults and do not benefit from parental controls at all.....unless their husbands/wives are using it on them.

Time limits won't fix pressure to play, neither will it fix farming bots... it will increase it because time is now a valuable commodity.  If you want to get rid of that stuff you have to make things so common that it is pointless.

Fix gold farming by making loot so numerous, or so worthless that there is no point to farming.  Like CoH before the whatever the architect came in.  There was buff drops but they were so common it was worthless.

Get rid of leveling pressure by making leveling so long it is pointless to even try and get to cap, or get rid of leveling completely.

The only way to get rid of them is to make them worthless, not more valuable.

Make

We argued this before, your argument does not convince me. Let's agree to disagree.

 

The only thing we can agree on is that it would be very unpopular and an xp system might work and be more acceptable.

  TheHavok

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 2408

"Free crack and everybody gets laid."

9/09/13 9:36:33 PM#130
Originally posted by seacow1g
Originally posted by muffins89
a lot of games already offer this in the form of parental controls.

You're focusing on the health part. Parental controls do nothing to fix pacing, pressure to overplay,  gold farming etc. The average MMO players are not children, they are adults and do not benefit from parental controls at all.....unless their husbands/wives are using it on them.

Serious question: Have you ever thought to yourself, what if you put those restrictions on other forms of entertainment?  Lets say... watching TV, streaming youtube, using your Ipad, and playing your music. 

Now lets think how subtle these forms of entertainment can be in the background.  You can have them on but, ehhh, they aren't a distraction.  Well how people spend time in an MMO is similar to these forms of entertainment.  People can be logged in but may have multiple computers or monitors up and the game off to the side while they are focused on something else.

Its no big deal.  Just don't infringe on how other people like to play their game.

  seacow1g

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/27/13
Posts: 260

 
OP  9/09/13 9:40:47 PM#131
Originally posted by TheHavok
Originally posted by seacow1g
Originally posted by muffins89
a lot of games already offer this in the form of parental controls.

You're focusing on the health part. Parental controls do nothing to fix pacing, pressure to overplay,  gold farming etc. The average MMO players are not children, they are adults and do not benefit from parental controls at all.....unless their husbands/wives are using it on them.

Serious question: Have you ever thought to yourself, what if you put those restrictions on other forms of entertainment?  Lets say... watching TV, streaming youtube, using your Ipad, and playing your music. 

Now lets think how subtle these forms of entertainment can be in the background.  You can have them on but, ehhh, they aren't a distraction.  Well how people spend time in an MMO is similar to these forms of entertainment.  People can be logged in but may have multiple computers or monitors up and the game off to the side while they are focused on something else.

Its no big deal.  Just don't infringe on how other people like to play their game.

Here's the problem, you're likening MMORPG's to other forms of entertaining and even other genres. In my premise I explained that at their core MMORPG's are very different from other kinds of entertainments. It's competitive, it's persistent and you never stop getting stronger till you hit some form of cap. This has a huge influence on  both the game world and how we play it. I would never consider these measures for any other kind of entertainment nor genre. That is my premise. But I can understand how easy it is to ignore this premise when freedom is involved. It's like a huge neon light that draws attention away from the reasons I bring it up in the first place.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4688

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

9/09/13 9:44:45 PM#132
Originally posted by seacow1g
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by seacow1g
Originally posted by muffins89
a lot of games already offer this in the form of parental controls.

You're focusing on the health part. Parental controls do nothing to fix pacing, pressure to overplay,  gold farming etc. The average MMO players are not children, they are adults and do not benefit from parental controls at all.....unless their husbands/wives are using it on them.

Time limits won't fix pressure to play, neither will it fix farming bots... it will increase it because time is now a valuable commodity.  If you want to get rid of that stuff you have to make things so common that it is pointless.

Fix gold farming by making loot so numerous, or so worthless that there is no point to farming.  Like CoH before the whatever the architect came in.  There was buff drops but they were so common it was worthless.

Get rid of leveling pressure by making leveling so long it is pointless to even try and get to cap, or get rid of leveling completely.

The only way to get rid of them is to make them worthless, not more valuable.

Make

We argued this before, your argument does not convince me. Let's agree to disagree.

 

The only thing we can agree on is that it would be very unpopular and an xp system might work and be more acceptable.

No comments on my suggestions though?

I can at least give an example.  CoH.  They actually did this and there was no farming for loot.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  seacow1g

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/27/13
Posts: 260

 
OP  9/09/13 9:49:24 PM#133
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by seacow1g
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by seacow1g
Originally posted by muffins89
a lot of games already offer this in the form of parental controls.

You're focusing on the health part. Parental controls do nothing to fix pacing, pressure to overplay,  gold farming etc. The average MMO players are not children, they are adults and do not benefit from parental controls at all.....unless their husbands/wives are using it on them.

Time limits won't fix pressure to play, neither will it fix farming bots... it will increase it because time is now a valuable commodity.  If you want to get rid of that stuff you have to make things so common that it is pointless.

Fix gold farming by making loot so numerous, or so worthless that there is no point to farming.  Like CoH before the whatever the architect came in.  There was buff drops but they were so common it was worthless.

Get rid of leveling pressure by making leveling so long it is pointless to even try and get to cap, or get rid of leveling completely.

The only way to get rid of them is to make them worthless, not more valuable.

Make

We argued this before, your argument does not convince me. Let's agree to disagree.

 

The only thing we can agree on is that it would be very unpopular and an xp system might work and be more acceptable.

No comments on my suggestions though?

I can at least give an example.  CoH.  They actually did this and there was no farming for loot.

Ok, well I don't like making loot feel worthless. It may improve how the players play but it would make the game feel less fun. Playing a game in a very moderately controlled way does not ruin the fun. Most people would hardly ever notice it, like hardly ever. But the consequences of design like making loot feel worthless would be felt every single gameplay moment.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4688

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

9/09/13 9:51:49 PM#134

The loot in CoH wasn't useless it was very very usefull, but it was aslo very common.  Every one wanted and needed them all the time, and they were always getting them.

It did not harm the fun, in fact many say it accentuated the fun.

CoH was just a bit too repetitive in the other areas.

I don't see a way where you could have loot/coin be valuable and wanted and somewhat restricted as well without having farming.  The two seem contradictory.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3473

9/09/13 9:54:02 PM#135
Originally posted by Arclan

I am a fan of restrictions that limit how fast players can level.


You may have gotten more "yes" votes if you worded it differently, rather than specifying 8-10 hours a day as the max. A player may not have been able to logon all week; and wants to pull an all nighter on the weekend.


Diminishing returns is another option; or an xp curve:

xp boost during the first 5 hours of the week.
normal xp for 5 to 40 hours.
diminished xp after 40 hours.

Fixed xp per mob and having a max of 24hrs in a day already places a restriction how fast you can lvl in every MMO :p

 

As for the OP, I don't agree with any system where a MMO company plays mum and dad for you. One reason is that I don't like to be pampered like that by companies , the other reason is purely practical. Whatever arbitrary progression restriction you put in the game, there will always be some playstyles hurt more then otheres.

Also, diminishing return systems always give problems, either in some situations they kick in too early, or sometimes there are work arounds.. Or even worse, if they have a fixed daily reset. Which mainly hurts players who play at certain times.

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2220

9/09/13 9:54:26 PM#136
 Sometimes in life one can't force another not to kill themselves. its not always societys responsibility to keep people alive that have self destructive impulses. Sure we can use all our resources trying to keep some people alive that that are either incapable or don't care to help themselves but then its also kind of natural for the gene pool to weed out those that don't want to live or are incapable of learning how to stay alive.
  seacow1g

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/27/13
Posts: 260

 
OP  9/09/13 9:59:04 PM#137
Originally posted by someforumguy
Originally posted by Arclan

I am a fan of restrictions that limit how fast players can level.


You may have gotten more "yes" votes if you worded it differently, rather than specifying 8-10 hours a day as the max. A player may not have been able to logon all week; and wants to pull an all nighter on the weekend.


Diminishing returns is another option; or an xp curve:

xp boost during the first 5 hours of the week.
normal xp for 5 to 40 hours.
diminished xp after 40 hours.

Fixed xp per mob and having a max of 24hrs in a day already places a restriction how fast you can lvl in every MMO :p

 

That statement would make sense if not for that fact that MMO's are not designed to be played 24 hours a day. They design it so people can play moderate hours (6-10) and keep up with the content. Even the most hardcore and grindy ones are designed this way. If you designed the content to be so lengthy and time consuming that you had to play at the max exp gain (24/7 mob grinding) constantly to be competitive then it would be impossibly costly, no one would keep up and people would not just hurt their health they'd literally die.

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4688

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

9/09/13 10:02:17 PM#138

I would say the opposite.  MMO's are designed to be played 24 hours a day.  Some content in them may run out but there is many other content that can be repeated ad nauseum e.g. grinding camps in every game, years long skill/class systems (Eve, UO, Istaria).

I'd say that is the major draw of an MMO, a world that is open 24 hours a day, that still exists waiting to be played even when your not there.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3473

9/09/13 10:05:48 PM#139
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

The loot in CoH wasn't useless it was very very usefull, but it was aslo very common.  Every one wanted and needed them all the time, and they were always getting them.

It did not harm the fun, in fact many say it accentuated the fun.

CoH was just a bit too repetitive in the other areas.

I don't see a way where you could have loot/coin be valuable and wanted and somewhat restricted as well without having farming.  The two seem contradictory.

I like your suggestion. But for me personally , this only works if the rest of the content makes up for it in other ways. A good story, or gameplay with a lot of replayability (being able to adapt builds to combat etc, sandbox features).

But unfortunately there seem to be a lot of players who really want loot to be rare, so it becomes an 'achievement' to obtain something. Which I personally never understood, because I prefer to look for challenges in combat or creation. Farming like crazy for a random chance drop, might be a challenge for my patience, but I don't play games for that reason and certainly wouldn't see it as an achievement.

Anyway, so many MMO players are fixed on the carrot on a stick progression now. They want slow long levelling and rare random chance drops. Story or other activities are not that important, only slow character progression is.

I also agree with your last sentence. Any time restriction in a game where loot/coin is valuable causes efficient farming methods and bots to pop up.

  seacow1g

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/27/13
Posts: 260

 
OP  9/09/13 10:07:18 PM#140
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

I would say the opposite.  MMO's are designed to be played 24 hours a day.  Some content in them may run out but there is many other content that can be repeated ad nauseum e.g. grinding camps in every game, years long skill/class systems (Eve, UO, Istaria).

I'd say that is the major draw of an MMO, a world that is open 24 hours a day, that still exists waiting to be played even when your not there.

This is just not true. They may be designed to be played 24 hours a day till you run out of stuff to do but if you constantly play it like that you most definitely WILL. The fact that they put caps on stuff and regulate exp gains, put boss timers or lockouts etc. specifically indicates that they are built to be played within a certain range of paces. Giving each individual player a limit does not mean the world stops existing, it just means individual players HAVE to rest at some point. Just like they do in real life. That's way more realistic. The mere fact that a character can be played by more than one person makes no fatigue system less realistic. And places pressures on both the players playstyle (feel like they have to grind to the point where there IS a cap) and the economy.

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