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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » how bad is the combat?

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111 posts found
  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6672

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

9/09/13 10:57:14 AM#81

It is not bad at all it just is not as in depth as say FFXI which imo has the most depth of any combat system,matter of of fact, i would bet on it.

The only real issue that holds back FFXIV dmg is the game catered to too much soloing.So because of that you are not going to have the really high spike damage or any really powerful fun spells like ffix had such as kiting with Gravity.

IDK who said combat is slow but lol,it is not slow at all,unless you think Fun combat is 1-2 hits dead,might as well not even have a hot bar then,just 1-2 buttons that say dead.

FFXI would be considered the slow version of combat.

Even so it doesn't matter because SLOW combat is the way to go if you want to create an intuitive and interacting structure.Why have all those abilities if there is no time to use them.It would make as much sense as games that level too fast which does not allow anyone to actually enjoy a level or the gear for very long,making the whole game a lame speed fest towards end game.

The whole purpose to gaming is to have some fun,speed is not important,at least that is the excuse everyone keeps telling me when using other games as an excuse.I see VERY few people actually trying to enjoy a developer's creation,instead i see this or that is not fast enough,travel is too slow,combat too slow,leveling too slow,i swear why are people playing these games,they are obviously not out to have any fun,just some ego trip to prove how fast they can level or something.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Synns77

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 124

9/09/13 11:02:15 AM#82
The combat is ok, nothing great but not terrible either I personally prefer this style of combat to action type combat (tera), the real big complaint though at the minute is the lag issues, get a warning that an attack is coming, move totally out the way and still get hit. Not sure if this is because of the servers being so far from the Uk or whether its just bad design.
  djazzy

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/05
Posts: 3623

9/09/13 11:04:46 AM#83

Only played the beta but it's pretty standard mmorpg combat with a long GCD. It was a bit too slow for my taste but it's not the worst combat I've played. The tab targeting could use some work though.

I enjoyed TSW's combat but I think the major problem there is that the feedback (sounds and feeling of impact) is lacking. Therefore a lot of people don't like the combat there.

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

9/09/13 11:21:11 AM#84
Originally posted by Krematory
[mod edit]. I've played both, and I enjoy FFXIV combat a lot more. Sure, it's a bit simple and lacking during the first few levels, but it becomes more complex and tactical as you level your classes. In fact, it is easily one of my top 3 combat systems I have ever played. And I've played a lot...

 The problem is getting past those first few levels of killing squirrels with poor combat....Dont they realize that first impressions are very important in a MMO?

  Gorilla

Old School

Joined: 6/07/04
Posts: 2218

9/09/13 11:46:34 AM#85
Originally posted by Synns77
The combat is ok, nothing great but not terrible either I personally prefer this style of combat to action type combat (tera), the real big complaint though at the minute is the lag issues, get a warning that an attack is coming, move totally out the way and still get hit. Not sure if this is because of the servers being so far from the Uk or whether its just bad design.

I was beginning to think I was the only one that was finding that frustrating. People where up in arms with SWTOR for far less, WAR too I seem to remember. Seemd that FFXIV has been given a pass for now. One thing WoW gets right (maybe over time) is crispy combat. GW2's animation blending is pretty well done too (though if you don't like the actiony style that might pass you by).

  echolynfan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/26/10
Posts: 721

I ain't got a gat but I gotta soldering gun

9/09/13 1:21:28 PM#86
Originally posted by sumdumguy1
Originally posted by stayontarget

I've noticed a lot of people saying "The global cooldown actually makes you "think" before just randomly hitting buttons".

 

 

 

What exactly are you thinking about?  is it so complicated that you need time to think about your next move.  And another question,  some say that the combat speeds up later on in the game.  So does that mean you need less time to think about it the higher you level up?

 

So many conflicting replies in this thread.

My thoughts exactly, no need to repeat what has already been well said.

Probably because some of us not yet got to 50 :)

Currently playing as Pete Puma on Excalibur. FF ARR - The best MMO I've played since SWG!

  Rohn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3739

9/09/13 1:24:57 PM#87
Originally posted by Gorilla
Originally posted by Synns77
The combat is ok, nothing great but not terrible either I personally prefer this style of combat to action type combat (tera), the real big complaint though at the minute is the lag issues, get a warning that an attack is coming, move totally out the way and still get hit. Not sure if this is because of the servers being so far from the Uk or whether its just bad design.

I was beginning to think I was the only one that was finding that frustrating. People where up in arms with SWTOR for far less, WAR too I seem to remember. Seemd that FFXIV has been given a pass for now. One thing WoW gets right (maybe over time) is crispy combat. GW2's animation blending is pretty well done too (though if you don't like the actiony style that might pass you by).

 

This is a serious problem for me too - supposedly move far out of the way, and still get hit.  The hit system is very sloppy, and seems to be plagued with lag problems.

Other than that, it's a very bland combat system, pretty much the same MMO combat we've seen for a decade.

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  LizardEgypt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/09
Posts: 359

Hmm ?

9/09/13 1:29:45 PM#88
Originally posted by Wizardry

It is not bad at all it just is not as in depth as say FFXI which imo has the most depth of any combat system,matter of of fact, i would bet on it.

The only real issue that holds back FFXIV dmg is the game catered to too much soloing.So because of that you are not going to have the really high spike damage or any really powerful fun spells like ffix had such as kiting with Gravity.

IDK who said combat is slow but lol,it is not slow at all,unless you think Fun combat is 1-2 hits dead,might as well not even have a hot bar then,just 1-2 buttons that say dead.

FFXI would be considered the slow version of combat.

Even so it doesn't matter because SLOW combat is the way to go if you want to create an intuitive and interacting structure.Why have all those abilities if there is no time to use them.It would make as much sense as games that level too fast which does not allow anyone to actually enjoy a level or the gear for very long,making the whole game a lame speed fest towards end game.

The whole purpose to gaming is to have some fun,speed is not important,at least that is the excuse everyone keeps telling me when using other games as an excuse.I see VERY few people actually trying to enjoy a developer's creation,instead i see this or that is not fast enough,travel is too slow,combat too slow,leveling too slow,i swear why are people playing these games,they are obviously not out to have any fun,just some ego trip to prove how fast they can level or something.

I wish I had played XI. I heard nothing but great things from those who did. 

Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.

  Torcip

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 614

9/09/13 1:36:40 PM#89
Originally posted by Rohn
Originally posted by Gorilla
Originally posted by Synns77
The combat is ok, nothing great but not terrible either I personally prefer this style of combat to action type combat (tera), the real big complaint though at the minute is the lag issues, get a warning that an attack is coming, move totally out the way and still get hit. Not sure if this is because of the servers being so far from the Uk or whether its just bad design.

I was beginning to think I was the only one that was finding that frustrating. People where up in arms with SWTOR for far less, WAR too I seem to remember. Seemd that FFXIV has been given a pass for now. One thing WoW gets right (maybe over time) is crispy combat. GW2's animation blending is pretty well done too (though if you don't like the actiony style that might pass you by).

 

This is a serious problem for me too - supposedly move far out of the way, and still get hit.  The hit system is very sloppy, and seems to be plagued with lag problems.

Other than that, it's a very bland combat system, pretty much the same MMO combat we've seen for a decade.

What I've noticed is that it's almost never lag, it's just that the attack registers a connect before the animation starts, not when visually it would make since for the attack to hit.  If your in the red area before it dissappears, then even if you're way out of the way before he attack connects visually then it is still going to hit you. That's what I've noticed anyways.

  Alamareth

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 591

9/09/13 1:42:32 PM#90
Originally posted by Torcip
Originally posted by Rohn
Originally posted by Gorilla
Originally posted by Synns77
The combat is ok, nothing great but not terrible either I personally prefer this style of combat to action type combat (tera), the real big complaint though at the minute is the lag issues, get a warning that an attack is coming, move totally out the way and still get hit. Not sure if this is because of the servers being so far from the Uk or whether its just bad design.

I was beginning to think I was the only one that was finding that frustrating. People where up in arms with SWTOR for far less, WAR too I seem to remember. Seemd that FFXIV has been given a pass for now. One thing WoW gets right (maybe over time) is crispy combat. GW2's animation blending is pretty well done too (though if you don't like the actiony style that might pass you by).

 

This is a serious problem for me too - supposedly move far out of the way, and still get hit.  The hit system is very sloppy, and seems to be plagued with lag problems.

Other than that, it's a very bland combat system, pretty much the same MMO combat we've seen for a decade.

What I've noticed is that it's almost never lag, it's just that the attack registers a connect before the animation starts, not when visually it would make since for the attack to hit.  If your in the red area before it dissappears, then even if you're way out of the way before he attack connects visually then it is still going to hit you. That's what I've noticed anyways.

This is correct.  The check for position happens before the animation starts.  If you were unable to get out of the red zone prior to it disappearing you will be hit regardless of position.  Lag contributes to this appearing off, but I've rarely had issues with it.

The jitter some people refer to is probably with the skills that give no red zone warning.  However, the same principle applies.  If you get caught, you will be hit after/during the animation.  This is how people end up dead behind pillars during the Garuda fight.

  Rohn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3739

9/09/13 1:49:36 PM#91
Originally posted by Torcip
Originally posted by Rohn
Originally posted by Gorilla
Originally posted by Synns77
The combat is ok, nothing great but not terrible either I personally prefer this style of combat to action type combat (tera), the real big complaint though at the minute is the lag issues, get a warning that an attack is coming, move totally out the way and still get hit. Not sure if this is because of the servers being so far from the Uk or whether its just bad design.

I was beginning to think I was the only one that was finding that frustrating. People where up in arms with SWTOR for far less, WAR too I seem to remember. Seemd that FFXIV has been given a pass for now. One thing WoW gets right (maybe over time) is crispy combat. GW2's animation blending is pretty well done too (though if you don't like the actiony style that might pass you by).

 

This is a serious problem for me too - supposedly move far out of the way, and still get hit.  The hit system is very sloppy, and seems to be plagued with lag problems.

Other than that, it's a very bland combat system, pretty much the same MMO combat we've seen for a decade.

What I've noticed is that it's almost never lag, it's just that the attack registers a connect before the animation starts, not when visually it would make since for the attack to hit.  If your in the red area before it dissappears, then even if you're way out of the way before he attack connects visually then it is still going to hit you. That's what I've noticed anyways.

 

I've been hit a lot of times even after getting out of the red before it disappears.  It happens pretty frequently, actually.

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  User Deleted
9/09/13 1:52:38 PM#92

I realized how much I had outgrown FFXIV style of combat when I tanked a couple of instances. Tab targeting multiple mobs was a p.i.t.a.

I saw the fights like a Simon Says type of thing. More so than other games I've played. Reminded me of WoW. I read about people failing at these? *shakes head* :-( 

 

For people who absolutely hate the direction the genre is going in...well, there's FFXIV :-)

A blast from the past (10 years).

 

There's something for everybody. 

  Voqar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/04
Posts: 477

9/09/13 2:50:15 PM#93
Originally posted by funcon
this Final Fantasy game has combat like WoW. Almost 10 year old combat in 2013.

10 year old combat?  It's not something that has a date or is dated.  Tab target combat is a style.  It's not something that's going to go away.

 

Action combat is another style.

 

Which is "better" or "worse" is purely a matter of opinion or personal taste.

 

I like both systems.  They both have goods and bads.

 

FFXIV has some of the "move out of the blatant ae/telegraph" that you find in action style systems.

 

I don't particularly like the 2.5s global cooldown in FFXIV but other than that the system is typical and works fine and the classes are interesting enough within the system.  1.5s GCD always felt too long to me so 2.5s is an eternity.

 

I thought combat in TSW was well done for that game and TSW is a grossly underrated game.  Releasing against GW2 hurt since GW2 was massively hyped (and grossly overrated) and failing to expand endgame content quickly after release (and instead adding yet more solo idiot mode content) was and is kind of dumb.  Solo content that takes 2 months to develop and 2 hours for players to obliterate doesn't keep people around.  Funcom never seems to get things quite right.

 

 

Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  Yizle

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/10
Posts: 528

9/09/13 2:56:17 PM#94
Originally posted by Regnor

It comes down to this. If you like mashing buttons fast and being able to change tactics instantly in real time without thinking then you will be disappointed. If on the other hand you like to have time to make tactical choices based on visual cues on the screen and like turn based strategy gaming, you will love this combat compared to the "action combat" trending everywhere else.

FFXIV has lots of faults, but the combat system is not one of them imo.

Imo the combat system and the cutscenes are its 2 biggest faults, Its not strategic its just slow and cumbersome. Unless you mean strategic as hit an ability, have a drink, hit an ability, take a bite of sandwich.

  Alamareth

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 591

9/09/13 3:39:59 PM#95
Originally posted by Yizle
Originally posted by Regnor

It comes down to this. If you like mashing buttons fast and being able to change tactics instantly in real time without thinking then you will be disappointed. If on the other hand you like to have time to make tactical choices based on visual cues on the screen and like turn based strategy gaming, you will love this combat compared to the "action combat" trending everywhere else.

FFXIV has lots of faults, but the combat system is not one of them imo.

Imo the combat system and the cutscenes are its 2 biggest faults, Its not strategic its just slow and cumbersome. Unless you mean strategic as hit an ability, have a drink, hit an ability, take a bite of sandwich.

You'll never pass level 40 doing that.  You'll be harassed out of the game if by some miracle you hit level 50.

Unless of course you have 4 arms.

  Bhob

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/05
Posts: 125

9/09/13 3:58:22 PM#96

Stupid question, but are there skillchains like in FFXI?  It was pretty fun pulling them off as a team, and I can see how slower combat would benefit timing.   

So far in the first 2 dungeons, there has not been too much coordination going on.

  Aori

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/06
Posts: 1786

9/09/13 4:00:53 PM#97

The combat isn't bad, its just more a preference.

There is an issue with targeting though, clicking and tab both are a pita.

  JayFiveAlive

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/04/09
Posts: 469

9/09/13 4:13:49 PM#98
Originally posted by Bhob

Stupid question, but are there skillchains like in FFXI?  It was pretty fun pulling them off as a team, and I can see how slower combat would benefit timing.   

So far in the first 2 dungeons, there has not been too much coordination going on.

There are no multi-people skill chains yet. Maybe they will add that down the road though. Dungeons past like 20ish get a bit more coordinated and even more 35+ If you don't have coordination or know what is going on, you will die a lot.

  Bhob

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/05
Posts: 125

9/09/13 4:19:54 PM#99
Originally posted by JayFiveAlive
Originally posted by Bhob

Stupid question, but are there skillchains like in FFXI?  It was pretty fun pulling them off as a team, and I can see how slower combat would benefit timing.   

So far in the first 2 dungeons, there has not been too much coordination going on.

There are no multi-people skill chains yet. Maybe they will add that down the road though. Dungeons past like 20ish get a bit more coordinated and even more 35+ If you don't have coordination or know what is going on, you will die a lot.

I figured as much, but I will miss the skillchains sorta.

  niceguy3978

Elite Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 1990

9/09/13 5:27:32 PM#100
Originally posted by Sk1ppeR

Only a noob would say that action combat is boring. It's more of a what you make of it. WoW combat had its time. It is time to let go and move on. WoW was made in a time where broadband connection was a luxury and we all were happy with our 32kb/sec download speeds and considered them ultra fast (of course, compared to the 56k dial-ups), WoW IS playable with such a connection, but for that to happen the game has to be a lot less dynamic. 

 

Fast-forward 10 years from that time, and you have 10mbit broadband all over the place including 3G and LTE with super high speed and efficiency. A game like Gw2 puts the standard of new generation MMOs. A game like Planetside and Defiance do as well in their respective genres. Being able to move and hit is not about realism and how "you can not make a strong punch without leg assistance", it's about dynamics and player skill to burst out DPS AND avoid enemy frontal attacks. In modern day action combat MMOs skill actually matters. Not your passive evasion statistics. Not your hit rate on paper, but your own player skill, to get close enough to DPS, without taking damage back or if impossible at least avoid the enemy's more powerful burst. 

 

This, what I just said, opens the door for horizontal progression which, well, most of us enjoy (griefers that like to gank on players 30 levels below them and few item tiers below them aside). No need for gear treadmill needed, just a will to improve your own skill and coordination. Such things like "IMBA" "WTFHAX" "OP" classes are things of the past. If you are good, you should be able to tackle your opponent, without playing the FOTM class for a given game. 

 

So yeah back on topic. To hell with global cooldowns and launch issues for weeks now. FFXIV does not deserve my money. I'll pass. Even though I dislike WoW (for multiple reasons), if given the choice, I'd pick WoW instead of FFXIV anyday

Action combat also existed before wow, so I guess its time to move on from that too.

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