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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why waste time with useless loot?

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71 posts found
  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

9/08/13 9:04:00 PM#41

Well for one, most players find it easier to accept that some chump NPC will pay 10 gold coins for those Bear Jaw skeletons than for the bears themselves to be carrying 10 gold...

But certainly it would be a step forward for everything to be useful.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3479

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

9/08/13 9:13:25 PM#42

2 reasons.
1) How else can an MMO inflate it's economy with vendors that have unlimited funds?
2) These drops fill up bag space and entice players to purchase more bag space.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Helleri

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 834

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”- Henry Ford

9/08/13 10:56:33 PM#43
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Shouldn't by now all loot be useful in someway to use at least for crafting? Why waste resources making loot that we can never use? Or is it just to help sell bag slots?

Another reason Runescape is my MMORPG of choice. Very little in the game is not useful loot wise (it's often a choice of deciding to grab what you can Most use or telling yourself when you go off to train that your only going to grab one kind of items -sticking to that is harder then it might seem at first).

 

Now, while I think I would enjoy a system where I can elect to not receive certain items (not even have them show up in a pile). There may be huge unknowable consequences to that in the way of economic balance. And, I'd rather not even mess with it mentally. I will make at least one assertion here that I won't also make mute. The one thing I can't stand is a game that auto-deposits items from a kill into my inventory. And, the thing is....Usually the game that does this is - from what I have noticed - is also the game with the most useless stuff to give me. It is so utterly useless in the some games that they have to make you take it. I can understand the frustration with this in many MMORPG.

 

But, much like with a lot of issues people seem to have on here with games they have played or are currently playing. I play Runescape. And so I don't currently have that problem, lol.

 

  MMOman101

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/05/08
Posts: 1214

9/08/13 11:17:58 PM#44

Useless loot is the most realistic--not fun--but realistic.

 

If we assume that many of these bi-pod creatures are less advanced then we should assume that their weapons are less advanced.  A monster that is not very smart may have  a make shift blunt or sharp item that would be useless for many adventures. 

 

Most of the monsters that are killed in MMOs have very little society or trade.  We should assume that their weapons. armor, and equipment would be of lower quality. 

 

If we are talking just pure game mechanics, I can still see a reason for "useless" loot. 

 

1) It makes carrying space have some value.  It furthers the need for larger bags and more of them.  This in turn creates an avenue for one of the few crated items in most MMOs. 

2) It forces people back to hubs at some point.  Without this players would be able to quest for longer and longer without returning.    This creates more natural breaks in game play and can give people a reason to go to the AH or have possibly have contact with another player.

3) It gives people multiple carrots on a stick without giving to much value.  If everything that dropped had value it would make grinding on mobs even more valuable.  If Mobs dropped almost nothing it would not incentivize killing.   There needs to be a balance reward for killing.  If people only got useful items quests may not be valued for the players. If people got nothing players may only want to do quests and focus on quests that had little to no combat. 

 

I honestly so little reason to drop useless gear in the current MMO structure.  Now if an MMO was heavy in crafting I guess it would make sense to have Mobs drop a lot of items that could be deconstructed or used in some way.  There are not a lot of MMOs that focus on crafting and crafting does not seem to draw enough people in to make a change like that in all MMOs.

  5Luck

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/23/10
Posts: 184

9/08/13 11:59:16 PM#45

I think usless loot is pretty lame. I do however think corpes should be usabale by skills like skinning essence gathering animating and head taking(bountys)

 

There are tons of ways to use a corps other then filing it with items that serve no other purpose then vendoring. I like the idea of salvageing but it should be a skill. Like when its a human corps and no bounty is present you can salvage the broken gear for scrap and that scrap can be combined to fit into a special aug slot in crafting or slotting. Maybe we could go in the direction of fasion. Adding bits of scrap from a certain mobs decor yeilds a certain look for your worn or crafted items...

 

But just for clicking a corps it should be usable or currency only.

 

Can even go so far as

"As a group you make short work of the carcass" \

to speed things up when grouping since not all group members gather the secondary skill based loot.

  Deivos

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1716

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

9/09/13 4:19:40 AM#46

Largely I'd chalk it up to it taking less brainpower to toss in a bunch of vendor trash to regulate the average amount of money a player has when progressing than it would be to make items be more consequential.

 

If they let all lootable items at least play into a simple crafting mechanic that would at least become a validating factor in the presence and use of such things, and they can still fulfill the role of vendor trash or otherwise for those that are less inclined to spend their time tinkering away with such activities.

 

Similarly, if they changed how loot and gear worked they could have dramatic differences on what trash loot or other looted material constituted.

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

  simmihi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/10
Posts: 527

9/09/13 4:34:15 AM#47
Useless loot - you vendor it, no decision, so it brings money into the game. Can somehow balance the economy, especially at launch and around expansion times. Theoretically, makes grinding an option. If no useless loot would come from grinding, people would feel "forced" to quest for gold (ingame currency), as there's no other source of gold (selling useful loot does not count, as that does not bring money into the game, it just moves money from one player to the other). Some people actually enjoy grinding, gathering useful mats (along with the useless ones), crafting stuff. They must have buyers and the prices should make their activity useful, on par with questing and others. For this, money should flow into the game.
  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2902

There... are... four... lights!

9/09/13 4:57:00 AM#48

When an animal drops useless bones or fangs or teeth, it makes sense at least...

Nothing worse than a rat dropping full plate armor.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Scalpless

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1355

9/09/13 5:18:12 AM#49

I liked how junk items were handled in Guild Wars 1. It had no real junk items, but mobs dropped trophies that could be sold to a vendor normally OR given to a collector NPC. Usually collectors had a little backstory ("I'm gathering ten Wind Rider Tentacles for my ritual.") and they'd give you basic items in exchange for the trophies they were collecting.

Basically, they were repeatable fetch quests that gave value to all the crap mobs drop and backstories to why someone would want to buy it. Unfortunately, GW2 axed the concept.

  generals3

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/04
Posts: 3306

9/09/13 5:23:27 AM#50
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

2 reasons.
1) How else can an MMO inflate it's economy with vendors that have unlimited funds?
2) These drops fill up bag space and entice players to purchase more bag space.

1) You don't need vendor money to inflate the economy. The money NPC's drop already inflate the economy.

2) Just make bags smaller?

Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3561

9/09/13 6:01:37 AM#51

agreed.. all loot should be crafted mats ONLY.. and any weapon or armor drops should be very limited.. other then destroying the items for mats like GW2 does.. 

I prefer a game that has 90 percent crafted economy.. :)

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20652

9/09/13 11:29:40 AM#52
Originally posted by Rydeson

agreed.. all loot should be crafted mats ONLY.. and any weapon or armor drops should be very limited.. other then destroying the items for mats like GW2 does.. 

I prefer a game that has 90 percent crafted economy.. :)

And i prefer one that has 10% crafted economy. It is just a preference.

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

9/09/13 11:32:19 AM#53
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Shouldn't by now all loot be useful in someway to use at least for crafting? Why waste resources making loot that we can never use? Or is it just to help sell bag slots?

 Depends on what the game is.

Technically in AC all loot is useful. However, given that most people have good sets of armor and weapons anything below the very best is generally seen as crappy. At the same time, that hunt through the trash for the treasure mechanic keeps people going and makes them excited when they do pull the random loot generator jackpot.

On top of that they allow it to be turned into salvage to tink up other gear, or to just sell it.

 

 

To put a hole in your sarcastic question. Why would loot that isn't useful help sell bad slots since there is no point in holding on to useless loot?

  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11792

9/09/13 11:45:41 AM#54
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Morrok

But vendor trash is all BUT useless.

As was said above, it's another form of gold/plat that drops off mobs.
And as such QUITE useful!

If the goal is to give players gold, then why not give players gold?  Why give players some random weapon or piece of armor that no one would ever plausibly equip, so there was never any market demand for some NPC to craft the item in the first place?

for later levels, I agree w you

but for newbie levels - I prefer the "dropped wpn"

 

for EQ newbie zone,

if you were a melee class, using a "dropped" rusty 2hander -- was more effective than your starting weapon

starting players were practically naked, equipping dropped cloth / leather garments made a difference for looks if nothing else

 

starting EQ players had no money to start paying for crafted goods - was easier to farm humanoids

in EQ, you could also see the weapons that humanoids were wielding, so you knew it would drop

 

for casters w pets, you could arm your summoned pets with dropped weapons

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20652

9/09/13 11:48:40 AM#55
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

 

To put a hole in your sarcastic question. Why would loot that isn't useful help sell bad slots since there is no point in holding on to useless loot?

Yeah. All loot that worth a bag slot is "useful" even if its use is to be sold to the vendor for a bit of gold.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2902

There... are... four... lights!

9/09/13 11:50:40 AM#56
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Rydeson

agreed.. all loot should be crafted mats ONLY.. and any weapon or armor drops should be very limited.. other then destroying the items for mats like GW2 does.. 

I prefer a game that has 90 percent crafted economy.. :)

And i prefer one that has 10% crafted economy. It is just a preference.

Each of your posts just prove that MMORPGs are the wrong type of games for you. Yeah, even the new, less "hardcore" ones. The idea of having to interact with another player seems to make you physically sick.

I'm a strong opponent of stuff like forced grouping, but seriously, what's the difference between farming some mob to get a loot drop and farming money/materials to get it crafted? None, except there's player interaction, and a player driven economy, which is always good for a MMORPG.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11792

9/09/13 11:58:30 AM#57
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

 what's the difference between farming some mob to get a loot drop and farming money/materials to get it crafted? None, except there's player interaction, and a player driven economy, which is always good for a MMORPG.

very true

but i doubt crafters are going to sell crafted weapons for level 1 characters

when there's next to no profit for time needed to make gear

 

unless there's an AH -- theres the added difficulty of finding traders online selling newbie gear

I say this thinking about both EQ1 and DAOC

 

DAOC was more craft driven

but DAOC also allowed you to gain levels faster than EQ1 and gave you better starter gear

 

in early EQ1, you were basically naked and could take 4-5 hours to reach level 5

  Bigmamajama

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/18/13
Posts: 206

9/09/13 12:05:21 PM#58
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Shouldn't by now all loot be useful in someway to use at least for crafting? Why waste resources making loot that we can never use? Or is it just to help sell bag slots?

The problem is not the loot its the design of the economy.   If the economy is designed properly even the bug leg you pick up has a value for sale to an NPC be it small, that helps you earn money or reputation in some way.

And the other problem you speak of (selling bag space) that's a F2P game mechanic problem not a loot problem.  People asked for free games so what do you expect?  Developers to not find ways to drive people to the cash shop?

I found value in everything I looted in MMO's pre F2P market.  It was all worth something to a vendor.  Sounds like you are asking for the further simplification of MMO's.  I only want something if it benefits me GREATLY.

Part of the depth of any situation in life (notice how I said situation not game) is determining the value of things.  Your basically asking the developers to remove that part of the game so you don't have to think about it, learn the loot tables and make decisions based on space and or value.  You want a line of code to do that for you.

Thanks for asking to make my games even more boring and mindless.  Lets just remove all trash mobs from games too.  You log in at max level and are dropped into a Dungeon that's just a boss fight that showers the room with epics when he dies from everyone hitting the same 3 buttons and double tapping.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20652

9/09/13 12:24:18 PM#59
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

And i prefer one that has 10% crafted economy. It is just a preference.

Each of your posts just prove that MMORPGs are the wrong type of games for you. Yeah, even the new, less "hardcore" ones. The idea of having to interact with another player seems to make you physically sick.

I'm a strong opponent of stuff like forced grouping, but seriously, what's the difference between farming some mob to get a loot drop and farming money/materials to get it crafted? None, except there's player interaction, and a player driven economy, which is always good for a MMORPG.

Who says i play MMORPGs to interact with others? (I do occasionally LFD, don't get me wrong .. i sometimes will group .. just that it is not a primary motivation).

And what is the "wrong" genre? There is no such thing. If a game is fun to me, and it happens to be a MMORPG, i will still play it. I don't discriminate.

And here is why i play some MMORPGs ....

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5903519/thread/393247#5903519

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2902

There... are... four... lights!

9/09/13 12:33:32 PM#60
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Who says i play MMORPGs to interact with others?

Oh yeah, I saw that other nonsense thread of yours.

Thing is, in a game having thousands of players on the same server in the same persistent world, you WILL automatically have to deal with others, aka "interact". And I don't mean forced grouping, getting in a group with 4 or more other people to bash monsters is not socializing.

If you don't want that "risk" to have to interact with others, you should avoid the MMORPG genre or accept the limitations to your gameplay caused by your refusal of interacting.

There are two extremes on this forum: the proponents of hardcore forced grouping "old school" MMOs (like EQ), where you can't do anything significant on your own, and you on the other side, who wants to play the games like single player games and have no penalty for doing so. The vast, very vast majority of the player base is somewhere in between of those two extremes, people who enjoy grouping while still wanting to achieve things on their own when they don't have the time for it.

Three kind of MMO players...

1) the hardcore elitists, wanting everything to be made tedious and forced to be in a group, so they feel superior for doing it faster by playing more.

2) the normal players (vast majority).

3) the casual elitists, wanting everything to be dumbed down to their level.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

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