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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why waste time with useless loot?

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71 posts found
  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1006

 
OP  9/08/13 11:00:24 AM#1
Shouldn't by now all loot be useful in someway to use at least for crafting? Why waste resources making loot that we can never use? Or is it just to help sell bag slots?
  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12108

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

9/08/13 11:03:53 AM#2
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Shouldn't by now all loot be useful in someway to use at least for crafting? Why waste resources making loot that we can never use? Or is it just to help sell bag slots?

Thank Everquest for introducing that crap to MMOs. In previous MMOs, and several between EQ and WOW, all loot served at least some kind of purpose.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  mrputts

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/23/05
Posts: 174

9/08/13 11:11:11 AM#3
You raise a good point. If they want less crafting items dropped just make the loots empty or with just money, and cut out the Grey items.

Ea is like a poo fingered midas ~ShakyMo

  Vrika

Elite Member

Joined: 10/03/05
Posts: 2024

9/08/13 12:16:37 PM#4

When I get useless loot, I like to think it as ingredients needed by some NPC crafters. It's much more immersive than every enemy dropping only gold.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12108

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

9/08/13 12:17:50 PM#5
Originally posted by Vrika

When I get useless loot, I like to think it as ingredients needed by some NPC crafters. It's much more immersive than every enemy dropping only gold.

Very true, but there's also another path - simply make it all useful.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

9/08/13 12:21:47 PM#6

ive always assumed it was there to force people back to towns to sell crap .. in essence, it's a time sink. Not saying that I see that as a good or necessary thing, but .. it does have a "purpose" ... just maybe not a very good one.

id have to do some math, but I think, this useless loot sells for more gold than the NPC that dropped it .. drops? So it's a choice. Fill your bags with more stuff and sell, or kill more and let it rot, for the same yield.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12108

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

9/08/13 12:23:26 PM#7
Originally posted by azmundai

ive always assumed it was there to force people back to towns to sell crap .. in essence, it's a time sink. Not saying that I see that as a good or necessary thing, but .. it does have a "purpose" ... just maybe not a very good one.

The same could be done with usable loot.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

9/08/13 12:27:32 PM#8


Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by azmundai ive always assumed it was there to force people back to towns to sell crap .. in essence, it's a time sink. Not saying that I see that as a good or necessary thing, but .. it does have a "purpose" ... just maybe not a very good one.
The same could be done with usable loot.

useable loot might make it worse as you would want to either goto the bank, or the AH to sell / store it instead of an outpost nearby.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  Vrika

Elite Member

Joined: 10/03/05
Posts: 2024

9/08/13 12:27:50 PM#9
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Vrika

When I get useless loot, I like to think it as ingredients needed by some NPC crafters. It's much more immersive than every enemy dropping only gold.

Very true, but there's also another path - simply make it all useful.

If it's all usable, then there's easily way too many items needed for crafting. I think devs should do crafting materials based on how many different items they think should be needed for crafting, not based on how many different items they want mobs to drop.

  Boneserino

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 716

9/08/13 12:33:44 PM#10
Originally posted by Vrika
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Vrika

When I get useless loot, I like to think it as ingredients needed by some NPC crafters. It's much more immersive than every enemy dropping only gold.

Very true, but there's also another path - simply make it all useful.

If it's all usable, then there's easily way too many items needed for crafting. I think devs should do crafting materials based on how many different items they think should be needed for crafting, not based on how many different items they want mobs to drop.

Precisely why I love Fallen Earth!!  No stupid gear drops!!  90% of the items dropped are used for crafting, and everything used in game is created by crafting.

 

Nuff said!

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  Aines

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/09/08
Posts: 42

9/08/13 12:33:56 PM#11

I have always considering these items as gold. Basically instead of dropping gold, they drop these items that you can sell later. I would not want to change that. Maybe it is just me, but if everything that any mob dropped would be useful for something...meaning, all items would be useful for something, it would feel wrong. I want this junk in my inventory :P

 

  Morrok

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/08
Posts: 132

9/08/13 12:41:55 PM#12


Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Why waste resources making loot that we can never use?


My preciouuusss...



Originally posted by Loktofeit
Thank Everquest for introducing that crap to MMOs. In previous MMOs, and several between EQ and WOW, all loot served at least some kind of purpose.


I think there's some... misconception involved in this statement.
In EQ you have 4types of loot, basically:
1) equipment, like in any MMO, immediately wearable
2) Tradeskill items
3) Quest items
4) vendor trash.

So from my point of view, all loot *DOES* have a purpose.
If you can actually name an item that doesn't fall into one or more of the above categories, it's usually safe to assume that it once belonged to a (now-removed) quest or some storyline/quest that didn't become implemented properly.
At any rate, if they still exist (i think i saw a few entries in Alla stating "no use" and no selling price in my days, but when last i checked at least those i came across had a vendor-value assigned to them), they're not numerous enough to be worth mentioning.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12108

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

9/08/13 12:45:27 PM#13
Originally posted by Vrika
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Vrika

When I get useless loot, I like to think it as ingredients needed by some NPC crafters. It's much more immersive than every enemy dropping only gold.

Very true, but there's also another path - simply make it all useful.

If it's all usable, then there's easily way too many items needed for crafting. I think devs should do crafting materials based on how many different items they think should be needed for crafting, not based on how many different items they want mobs to drop.

Refining, salvaging, smelting. These have been around for over a decade in MMOs. No one is talking about making each [quality|mob|viscera] a separate crafting component.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13289

9/08/13 12:47:52 PM#14
I agree.  No more useless loot.  Most mobs should drop nothing at all, and only grant experience for killing them.
  Grahor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/08/11
Posts: 854

9/08/13 12:48:52 PM#15

All that abundance of loot serves 2 reasons: time sink for selling stuff and immersion for players - I've read some research that people much more prefer things diverse and different "falling" out of their enemies, rather than just plain coins; somehow it makes it a lot more exciting.

 

As an illustration, my own experience support it: I too actually am more interested in each and every drop if it consists of some kind of items relevant to the enemy and the situation, rather than just coins.

 

The solution, in my opinion, is to make all that unholy amount of loot "processable" into raw materials for crafters - say, grey weapons will give you metals/crafting thingies, animals - leathers, hides, bone, materials, etc. 

 

The most obvious example of such behavior is EvE. Man, there is a HUGE industry, whole gigantic, galaxy-wide economy with thousands of players working on buying the random loot from players fighting npcs, reprocessing it (whole array of skills and equipment, including player-build outposts, influencing the efficiency of reprocessing), moving resulting raw materials to factories and building things out of it.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12108

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

9/08/13 12:48:57 PM#16
Originally posted by Morrok


Originally posted by Loktofeit
Thank Everquest for introducing that crap to MMOs. In previous MMOs, and several between EQ and WOW, all loot served at least some kind of purpose.



I think there's some... misconception involved in this statement.
In EQ you have 4types of loot, basically:
1) equipment, like in any MMO, immediately wearable
2) Tradeskill items
3) Quest items
4) vendor trash.

 

So from my point of view, all loot *DOES* have a purpose.
 

Vendor trash was introduced to MMOs in EQ. It's a carryover from DikuMUD. It is the useless loot that the OP is talking about.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  Holophonist

Elite Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2013

9/08/13 12:49:22 PM#17
My preference would be a salvaging system so you can break things down to get resources. Also, certain mob types should drop certain things. That way you have a reason to go kill certain mobs, no matter where they are. That should help cut back on the "themepark" feeling you get from a lot of MMO's where you go from zone to zone, never to return.
  Morrok

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/08
Posts: 132

9/08/13 12:55:12 PM#18

But vendor trash is all BUT useless.

As was said above, it's another form of gold/plat that drops off mobs.
And as such QUITE useful!

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12108

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

9/08/13 12:56:23 PM#19
Originally posted by Holophonist
My preference would be a salvaging system so you can break things down to get resources. Also, certain mob types should drop certain things. That way you have a reason to go kill certain mobs, no matter where they are. That should help cut back on the "themepark" feeling you get from a lot of MMO's where you go from zone to zone, never to return.

Agreed.

Junk loot is a convenient way to pad out and adjust loot tables without having to worry much about balance. It's also a great way (for the devs) to manipulate available bag space and regulate player travel with minimal player awareness.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13289

9/08/13 12:57:11 PM#20
Originally posted by Morrok

But vendor trash is all BUT useless.

As was said above, it's another form of gold/plat that drops off mobs.
And as such QUITE useful!

If the goal is to give players gold, then why not give players gold?  Why give players some random weapon or piece of armor that no one would ever plausibly equip, so there was never any market demand for some NPC to craft the item in the first place?

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