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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: The Petulant Child of PAX

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86 posts found
  Aldous.Huxley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/04/13
Posts: 443

9/08/13 9:52:53 AM#61

#firstworldproblems

 

Bad taste does not need regulation. Move on & feed starving children, or some other cause that has real world consequence. Sticks & stones etc.

  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3584

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

9/08/13 10:07:18 AM#62
Originally posted by AwDiddums
Originally posted by oakshooligan

There are no lines in comedy.

As soon as you validate one line, all lines are validated.

The problem is society in general is being wrapped up in cotton wool by our respective governements, ppl are taking offence where no offence is intended.

Comedians are being demonised for holding up a distorted mirror on our everday lives, most ppl get the joke, but these days less ppl are inclined to laugh out loud in fear that we are deemed offensive and insensitve to others issues.

It has become a worrying trend when you could end up doing more time in prison for making a crude and inappropiate remark than driving a vehicle while under the influence of drink/drugs and potentially killing someone.

The Nanny state is nearly in full control and sooner or later the internet will follow suit.

Its not just the governments.  Its the entire fabric of society (such as it is) that has been corrupted by the dogma of PC (AKA Cultural Marxism).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism

One of the principles of which is the dogma dealing with "offense", and the "right" of people to not be "offended".  Which upon examination is foolish. Due to the subjective nature of "offense", no one has a "right" not to be offended.

Much of the evil that we see all around us (especially these days) stems from these mistaken beliefs.  Real rights, (such as those of life, liberty, property, to name but a few) stem from simply being a member of the human race.

They are not granted by government, nor may they be taken away without due process (which was originally created to protect those pre existing rights FROM those in government).

So very much has been lost over the generations, that all too many do not understand the vital link between real rights, and the responsibilities that naturally flow from them.  One has only to look around us to see the results.

  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3584

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

9/08/13 10:15:26 AM#63
Originally posted by nerovipus32
I don't see anything funny about rape jokes. I bet a person who was raped wouldn't find it funny either.

I don't see anything funny about them either.  I consider them rude, and vulgar.  That having been said, I also consider them to be simply part of the inevitable price that must be paid for freedom.  Real freedom for everyone.  Censorship, walks hand in hand with tyranny. Be it of a minority against a majority, or a majority against a minority.  Both are wrong, and both are dangerous.  Would that more people understood that reality.

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

9/08/13 11:31:59 AM#64
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by nerovipus32
I don't see anything funny about rape jokes. I bet a person who was raped wouldn't find it funny either.

I don't see anything funny about them either.  I consider them rude, and vulgar.  That having been said, I also consider them to be simply part of the inevitable price that must be paid for freedom.  Real freedom for everyone.  Censorship, walks hand in hand with tyranny. Be it of a minority against a majority, or a majority against a minority.  Both are wrong, and both are dangerous.  Would that more people understood that reality.

Well said.

 

  Tabledog

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/23/11
Posts: 3

9/08/13 10:46:57 PM#65

I gave up on the taste, restraint, and empathy of the PAX crowd when I, over 50 years old, sat in the audience while one of the panelists repeatedly said they were "waiting for the old folks to die off" and being greeted only with laughter and applause. Had I the presence of mind I should, I would have stood up and yelled "I'm RIGHT HERE!" but I'm not that quick-witted. When everyone applauds the idea of your death, even in jest, it is pretty souring. (I couldn't help but wonder if the reaction would be the same if he'd said the same about blacks or Jews or gays or women.)

The idea that rape of any kind, in any milieu, is considered humorous and money-making, is just pathetic. I'm not surprised that kind of humor popular among the PAX folks.

 

Yes, I enjoy a lot of games, a lot of the stuff that does go on at PAX. I kind of missed going this year. But I don't miss the immature, sophomoric-at-best humor that pervades it.

 

 

  victorbjr

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/13/10
Posts: 165

9/08/13 11:42:04 PM#66
Originally posted by MMOWarrior
You guys just don't get it.. and sadly so many of you think it's cute and funny to perpetuate a hostile and uncomfortable space for women gamers.. this article wasn't about the old comic strip it was about the disgusting community reaction that is repeating itself right here.. 

 

Basically, this. I was expecting some kind of backlash to the article, but if readers don't quite understand, I'll spell it out a bit better.

 

The acceptance of a lack of empathy to people who have suffered psychological trauma is a bit disturbing to me, because it just shows the geek community isn't as enlightened or as grown-up as it'd like to be. I want the gaming and geek communities to be better, and calling out cruddy behavior among people, whether they're public figures or people in expos, should be an important step towards ensuring that the community is a safe space for more people.

A writer and gamer from the Philippines. Loves his mom dearly. :)

Can also be found on http://www.gamesandgeekery.com

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

9/09/13 12:10:28 AM#67
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PAL-18

What happens in games happens in peoples minds and there they should stay.

And if I'm understanding you correctly I would agree. I love it and it's a great sentiment.

However, there are going to be people who point to you and say "because you play x games you condone their messages of violence and misogyny and the use of drugs and etc (whatever the game has).

And I don't believe for one minute you do.

So that's why I don't believe in censorship. I just believe in people staying out of places they don't want to be in and I believe in people saying their piece but not seeking to force it down anyone's throat.

Thats what i tried to say to Mr.Spock.

Lets imagine that im on the bus for example and say to my friend that "lets rob this bus and drive it to China" as a joke, not a good one but anyways,then i stand up and tell that to everyone.

Would be better to e-mail my terrible joke to the people who would like to hear it.

They tried to teach childrens with those methods still at 80´s and we got wiser and figured out that it does not work it actually has the opposite effect.

I dont know which one would be better,censorhip or let everybody to say /do what they are thinking.

I prefer censorship.

 

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"

 

 

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." 

 

 

I believe Kierkegaard would more attribute this to the other side of the argument.People using their freedom of speech to say others should not be allowed to make statements.He was talking about using a freedom t deny yourself other freedoms.

  Malcanis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3213

"A very special kind of stupidity"

9/09/13 4:46:24 AM#68
What was the point of raking this up again 2 years after it happened and 2 years after Jerry publically conceded his error and apologised?

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  Malcanis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3213

"A very special kind of stupidity"

9/09/13 5:03:27 AM#69
Originally posted by Tabledog

I gave up on the taste, restraint, and empathy of the PAX crowd when I, over 50 years old, sat in the audience while one of the panelists repeatedly said they were "waiting for the old folks to die off" and being greeted only with laughter and applause. Had I the presence of mind I should, I would have stood up and yelled "I'm RIGHT HERE!" but I'm not that quick-witted. When everyone applauds the idea of your death, even in jest, it is pretty souring. (I couldn't help but wonder if the reaction would be the same if he'd said the same about blacks or Jews or gays or women.)

 

You seem happy to make broad negative generalisations of your own; why should you complain when you hear them directed back at yourself?

A generation that spends so much time complaining about young people shouldn't expect much sympathy when they hear comments like that.  What did you expect to hear? "Oh boy I hope the people that steered our economy onto the rocks, looted the social security fund and expects us to live in debt for the rest of our lives while we work to keep them in the sweetheart retirement deals they voted to give them the leisure to spend their time complain 24/7 about those idle lazy young uns, man I hope those guys live forever".

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1660

9/09/13 7:42:51 AM#70
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PAL-18

What happens in games happens in peoples minds and there they should stay.

And if I'm understanding you correctly I would agree. I love it and it's a great sentiment.

However, there are going to be people who point to you and say "because you play x games you condone their messages of violence and misogyny and the use of drugs and etc (whatever the game has).

And I don't believe for one minute you do.

So that's why I don't believe in censorship. I just believe in people staying out of places they don't want to be in and I believe in people saying their piece but not seeking to force it down anyone's throat.

Thats what i tried to say to Mr.Spock.

Lets imagine that im on the bus for example and say to my friend that "lets rob this bus and drive it to China" as a joke, not a good one but anyways,then i stand up and tell that to everyone.

Would be better to e-mail my terrible joke to the people who would like to hear it.

They tried to teach childrens with those methods still at 80´s and we got wiser and figured out that it does not work it actually has the opposite effect.

I dont know which one would be better,censorhip or let everybody to say /do what they are thinking.

I prefer censorship.

 

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"

 

 

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." 

 

 

I believe Kierkegaard would more attribute this to the other side of the argument.People using their freedom of speech to say others should not be allowed to make statements.He was talking about using a freedom t deny yourself other freedoms.

 

To me it means thinking before you open your mouth, its a simple as that, freedom is not about being able to do what we please when we please, modern society works under the rule of law. The point being, can you get your point across without denigrating a section of society with crass and sensationalist rhetoric for a cheap laugh? if not you are not as intelligent and insightful as you think you are. If we are not empathetic towards others then we might as well shut up modern civilization as it has failed. We all see the immature behaviour of the MMO communities daily in many MMO's and isn't nice when you hit upon a mature community with mature rules? Freedom without rules isn't freedom its anarchy.

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  Ratero

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 323

9/09/13 7:51:57 AM#71
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Foomerang

So if someone is offended by a rape joke, they are wrong?

Nope, not at all!

But they should move on and not continue to view / purchase / etc. whatever offended them (their right as a consumer) instead of going on a crusade.

Don't like something? Offended? Move on.. don't support it... leave some private (non-public) feedback with the creator if you feel so inclined.

Don't get all Tipper Gore on us.

Freedom of speech isn't free - the cost for your freedom to say/write/etc. what you want is that you sometimes (often depending on your surroundings) have to hear/see things you don't agree with.

 

I thought this is why Lawyers had such a booming business. 

Just saying...

 

Ratero.

  Ratero

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 323

9/09/13 7:54:22 AM#72
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Foomerang So if someone is offended by a rape joke, they are wrong?
Nope, not at all!

 

But they should move on and not continue to view / purchase / etc. whatever offended them (their right as a consumer) instead of going on a crusade.

Don't like something? Offended? Move on.. don't support it... leave some private (non-public) feedback with the creator if you feel so inclined.

Don't get all Tipper Gore on us.

Freedom of speech isn't free - the cost for your freedom to say/write/etc. what you want is that you sometimes (often depending on your surroundings) have to hear/see things you don't agree with.

 


 

You expect people to magically move on if they don't like rape jokes? You can't get people to move on from a fucking video game they dont like and you expect them to magically do so on an issue that actually matters?

So the answer then is to censor and sanitize everything to protect the sensitivities of a few.....

Exactly, it's called "political correctness" and they are opening new offices daily in a town near you (or they already may be there).


Ratero.

  Ratero

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 323

9/09/13 8:06:21 AM#73
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PAL-18

What happens in games happens in peoples minds and there they should stay.

And if I'm understanding you correctly I would agree. I love it and it's a great sentiment.

However, there are going to be people who point to you and say "because you play x games you condone their messages of violence and misogyny and the use of drugs and etc (whatever the game has).

And I don't believe for one minute you do.

So that's why I don't believe in censorship. I just believe in people staying out of places they don't want to be in and I believe in people saying their piece but not seeking to force it down anyone's throat.

Thats what i tried to say to Mr.Spock.

Lets imagine that im on the bus for example and say to my friend that "lets rob this bus and drive it to China" as a joke, not a good one but anyways,then i stand up and tell that to everyone.

Would be better to e-mail my terrible joke to the people who would like to hear it.

They tried to teach childrens with those methods still at 80´s and we got wiser and figured out that it does not work it actually has the opposite effect.

I dont know which one would be better,censorhip or let everybody to say /do what they are thinking.

I prefer censorship.

 

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"

At least give credit to Benjamin Franklin for the quote.

People bring up quotes from the Founders all the time.  If they had lived in our current political arena they may be advocating something entirely different.

Ratero.

  Ratero

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 323

9/09/13 8:18:41 AM#74
Originally posted by nerovipus32
The internet proves to me that people are fake, they hide themselves out in the real world because they are afraid. The minute they get behind a keyboard they are the toughest mofo you've ever seen, They go to the gym 7 days a week and can get any girl they want and everyone else is either a virgin or has no job in their opinion.

EVERYTHING on the Internet is TRUE.  I read, that on the Internet they cannot post anything that is not true.

Excuse me now... I must get ready for my date... she's a French Model with a deep voice which I met on the Internet.

Ratero.

  Ratero

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 323

9/09/13 8:23:25 AM#75
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by AwDiddums
Originally posted by oakshooligan

There are no lines in comedy.

As soon as you validate one line, all lines are validated.

The problem is society in general is being wrapped up in cotton wool by our respective governements, ppl are taking offence where no offence is intended.

Comedians are being demonised for holding up a distorted mirror on our everday lives, most ppl get the joke, but these days less ppl are inclined to laugh out loud in fear that we are deemed offensive and insensitve to others issues.

It has become a worrying trend when you could end up doing more time in prison for making a crude and inappropiate remark than driving a vehicle while under the influence of drink/drugs and potentially killing someone.

The Nanny state is nearly in full control and sooner or later the internet will follow suit.

Its not just the governments.  Its the entire fabric of society (such as it is) that has been corrupted by the dogma of PC (AKA Cultural Marxism).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism

One of the principles of which is the dogma dealing with "offense", and the "right" of people to not be "offended".  Which upon examination is foolish. Due to the subjective nature of "offense", no one has a "right" not to be offended.

Much of the evil that we see all around us (especially these days) stems from these mistaken beliefs.  Real rights, (such as those of life, liberty, property, to name but a few) stem from simply being a member of the human race.

They are not granted by government, nor may they be taken away without due process (which was originally created to protect those pre existing rights FROM those in government).

So very much has been lost over the generations, that all too many do not understand the vital link between real rights, and the responsibilities that naturally flow from them.  One has only to look around us to see the results.

Thank you for posting this.  To few people see this at a current "truth" or they put their blinders on each and every morning so they do not have to see what is all around them.  One day in the near future the powder keg will blow and people are not going to like what they see once there are no more blinders left to put on.

 

Ratero.

  Soulsemmer

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/07
Posts: 20

9/09/13 9:18:47 AM#76
Thanks for the article, I agree wholeheartedly. Nothing else to really say, and I am not about to start beating my head on the wall that is made of trolls and insensitive dickbags.
  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1828

9/09/13 12:41:18 PM#77

I think the issue here is more about context and "main-streaming". I like South Park. I love the fact that South Park has no sacred cows and that they'll poke fun of anybody. Heck....South Park has poked fun of things I identify with.... and while I may have been a bit annoyed or even mildly offended at those particular episodes.... I also recognize that the "price of admission" to South Park is having a thick enough skin to tolerate the barbs aimed at you. Fair is fair and nobody gets spared...that's just what something like South Park is all about.

At the same time, I wouldn't find "South Park" type of content acceptable at a venue that is supposed to be more general and inclusive.....say like a baseball game. I wouldn't really expect it or tolerate it there....and I wouldn't have any problem with groups or individuals boycotting that baseball team for indulging in that at that venue....that's thier right of expression too.

So the real question is......what is PAX really intended to be?.....and who's trying to make it into that?.....what do the organizers expect it or want it to be?

If it wants to be a more limited "South Park humor" fans type experience.....then that's fine....and no one should expect anything more or complain about offense content in that venue. If it's trying to be a more general gaming and comic type thing....more all inclusive.....then it should probably expect to have to self-censor or deal with the consequences. YMMV.

 

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6825

9/09/13 12:48:14 PM#78
Tasteless humor is not really humor at all, just some idiot's inability to recognize negative affects on the audience.
  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3584

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

9/09/13 5:01:53 PM#79
Originally posted by victorbjr
Originally posted by MMOWarrior
You guys just don't get it.. and sadly so many of you think it's cute and funny to perpetuate a hostile and uncomfortable space for women gamers.. this article wasn't about the old comic strip it was about the disgusting community reaction that is repeating itself right here.. 

 

Basically, this. I was expecting some kind of backlash to the article, but if readers don't quite understand, I'll spell it out a bit better.

 

The acceptance of a lack of empathy to people who have suffered psychological trauma is a bit disturbing to me, because it just shows the geek community isn't as enlightened or as grown-up as it'd like to be. I want the gaming and geek communities to be better, and calling out cruddy behavior among people, whether they're public figures or people in expos, should be an important step towards ensuring that the community is a safe space for more people.

This "safe place" concept is what is at the very root of the problem.  Real safety and security flows from internal sources, not external.  Those who seek to escape their personal responsibility for their own personal safety and security, are aiding and abetting the corruption of the very nature of what it is to be an individual, rather than simply a faceless, voiceless member of a collective.

PAX Prime is currently over run by roving packs of "enforcers" just to pander to those who insist on the luxury of not being responsible.  All under the PC concept of making it a more a "welcoming" and "comfortable", not to mention "safer" environment. 

On the other hand, a mature adult, understands personal responsibility and how it extends and influences personal interactions with others.  Its a shame that we have so few of those around these days.

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

9/10/13 1:07:04 AM#80
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PAL-18

What happens in games happens in peoples minds and there they should stay.

And if I'm understanding you correctly I would agree. I love it and it's a great sentiment.

However, there are going to be people who point to you and say "because you play x games you condone their messages of violence and misogyny and the use of drugs and etc (whatever the game has).

And I don't believe for one minute you do.

So that's why I don't believe in censorship. I just believe in people staying out of places they don't want to be in and I believe in people saying their piece but not seeking to force it down anyone's throat.

Thats what i tried to say to Mr.Spock.

Lets imagine that im on the bus for example and say to my friend that "lets rob this bus and drive it to China" as a joke, not a good one but anyways,then i stand up and tell that to everyone.

Would be better to e-mail my terrible joke to the people who would like to hear it.

They tried to teach childrens with those methods still at 80´s and we got wiser and figured out that it does not work it actually has the opposite effect.

I dont know which one would be better,censorhip or let everybody to say /do what they are thinking.

I prefer censorship.

 

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"

 

 

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." 

 

 

I believe Kierkegaard would more attribute this to the other side of the argument.People using their freedom of speech to say others should not be allowed to make statements.He was talking about using a freedom t deny yourself other freedoms.

 

To me it means thinking before you open your mouth, its a simple as that, freedom is not about being able to do what we please when we please, modern society works under the rule of law. The point being, can you get your point across without denigrating a section of society with crass and sensationalist rhetoric for a cheap laugh? if not you are not as intelligent and insightful as you think you are. If we are not empathetic towards others then we might as well shut up modern civilization as it has failed. We all see the immature behaviour of the MMO communities daily in many MMO's and isn't nice when you hit upon a mature community with mature rules? Freedom without rules isn't freedom its anarchy.

Well that's an interpretation and certainly has merits.I don't think the joke in question was particularly funny and rape wasn't the focus of the joke at all and could of been replaced by something else since western history has shown that people would not bat an eye if he had said any other violent act of a non sexual nature.

That being said there was nothing illegal in what was said and no laws broken.We also can't force people to shut up just because we think they are crass or sensationalist.Freedom of speech isn't just for the intellectual elite or polite.As long as it doesn't wander into slander or liable then they have the right to say it.We don;t have to like it and we can say we don't like it and we can rebut whatever they say but we can't stop them saying it.

If we sanitize everything just to make sure no one is offended at all times then we end up saying nothing at all ever.

 

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