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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: The Petulant Child of PAX

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86 posts found
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17386

9/06/13 5:39:58 PM#41
Originally posted by Drakynn

No one here has said they don't have empathy for rape victims or any other victimized group.Just because they think someone should be able to use rape in a joke doesn't mean they support rape or lack empathy for the raped.That's like saying someone that makes a joke about Syria right now supports Tyranny and Chemical Weapon attacks or lacks empathy for the victims of those attacks or the millions of refugees pouring out of Syria.That's ludicrous.

 

 

Well said.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17386

9/06/13 5:45:05 PM#42
Originally posted by PAL-18

What happens in games happens in peoples minds and there they should stay.

 

 

And if I'm understanding you correctly I would agree. I love it and it's a great sentiment.

However, there are going to be people who point to you and say "because you play x games you condone their messages of violence and misogyny and the use of drugs and etc (whatever the game has).

And I don't believe for one minute you do.

So that's why I don't believe in censorship. I just believe in people staying out of places they don't want to be in and I believe in people saying their piece but not seeking to force it down anyone's throat.

  DamonVile

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

9/06/13 5:50:29 PM#43
Originally posted by Drakynn


No one here has said they don't have empathy for rape victims or any other victimized group.Just because they think someone should be able to use rape in a joke doesn't mean they support rape or lack empathy for the raped.That's like saying someone that makes a joke about Syria right now supports Tyranny and Chemical Weapon attacks or lacks empathy for the victims of those attacks or the millions of refugees pouring out of Syria.That's ludicrous.

 

 

+1

  PAL-18

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 740

9/06/13 6:16:31 PM#44
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PAL-18

What happens in games happens in peoples minds and there they should stay.

And if I'm understanding you correctly I would agree. I love it and it's a great sentiment.

However, there are going to be people who point to you and say "because you play x games you condone their messages of violence and misogyny and the use of drugs and etc (whatever the game has).

And I don't believe for one minute you do.

So that's why I don't believe in censorship. I just believe in people staying out of places they don't want to be in and I believe in people saying their piece but not seeking to force it down anyone's throat.

Thats what i tried to say to Mr.Spock.

Lets imagine that im on the bus for example and say to my friend that "lets rob this bus and drive it to China" as a joke, not a good one but anyways,then i stand up and tell that to everyone.

Would be better to e-mail my terrible joke to the people who would like to hear it.

They tried to teach childrens with those methods still at 80´s and we got wiser and figured out that it does not work it actually has the opposite effect.

I dont know which one would be better,censorhip or let everybody to say /do what they are thinking.

I prefer censorship.

 

So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

9/06/13 6:56:41 PM#45
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PAL-18

What happens in games happens in peoples minds and there they should stay.

And if I'm understanding you correctly I would agree. I love it and it's a great sentiment.

However, there are going to be people who point to you and say "because you play x games you condone their messages of violence and misogyny and the use of drugs and etc (whatever the game has).

And I don't believe for one minute you do.

So that's why I don't believe in censorship. I just believe in people staying out of places they don't want to be in and I believe in people saying their piece but not seeking to force it down anyone's throat.

Thats what i tried to say to Mr.Spock.

Lets imagine that im on the bus for example and say to my friend that "lets rob this bus and drive it to China" as a joke, not a good one but anyways,then i stand up and tell that to everyone.

Would be better to e-mail my terrible joke to the people who would like to hear it.

They tried to teach childrens with those methods still at 80´s and we got wiser and figured out that it does not work it actually has the opposite effect.

I dont know which one would be better,censorhip or let everybody to say /do what they are thinking.

I prefer censorship.

 

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"

  Sassy_Gay_Unicorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/01/13
Posts: 84

9/06/13 7:08:58 PM#46

This is really two stories: the first being the infamous 'Dickwolf' Penny Arcade strip, the other the consequent reactions to said and the ensuing actions and replies. For now I am only addressing the first issue.

What needs to be firmly established prior to any intelligent debate being capable is that the joke was not about rape. The joke was about the dubious morality of the often found quest "Free the prisoners". The hero doing the bare minimum to complete a quest is the root of the humor. He doesn't actually care about the prisoners in the least; he is doing the right thing for personal gain instead of altruism. Thus, he is not moral at all despite engaging in "heroic" behavior. 

That is the joke.

The joke could have been about rape. If the prisoner had stated that his life could not get any worse, and then the hero proceeded to rape him, the rape itself would have been the punchline. That, however, is not what occurred. 

Instead, the mention of rape, in context, is merely an amplifier used to heighten the viewer's understanding of the prisoner's terrible situation.

Other words could have been used. He could be murdered if not freed. Starved. Beaten. The possibilites are infinite.  

So why not use one of those words? Most likely a victim of rape would not appreciate the intended humor. Changing that one word would prevent needless mental anguish, however big or small.

So let's say they changed the amplifier to starved. The victims of rape are spared.

But now, what about the person struggling with bulimia or anorexia? Switch it to murder. Now the person who lost a loved one to murder is made uncomfortable or worse.

Well, simply don't publish the strip then. Then nobody gets hurt.

But then no one gets their day brightened by the comic either. 

***

Humor often comes at the expense of others.  We laugh because it is not us being used as the source of merriment. Comedy is drama at another's expense. Artists of all stripes could not possibly self-censor their works so that no one was at risk of being offended. Nothing of value would be created. 

 

And in regards to humor, tastes run the entire spectrum of human potential. What you find funny I may not, and vice versa.

 

In the end, the artist must be allowed to create. If he is found to be offensive, then that is an issue rooted in the viewer, and the viewer himself has the choice to continue his patronage of said, ask the artist to refrain from what is found offensive in the future, or to boycott. And since the artist cannot possibly cater to everyone, the artist's responsibility ultimately becomes to cater to himself and himself alone. 

 

The onus is on the audience: do not support art you find objectionable. 

 

But what was objectionable about this comic? There was no intent to harm. There was no premeditation to offend. Only by taking one word, and then stripping it of the surrounding context, is something that is almost universally reviled created. It is akin to saying that 'The Adventures of Tom Sawyer' is racist propaganda because the 'n-word' is used. It is a ridiculous argument. 

Yet this is the argument many have chosen. That is certainly their right. I think they are harming art more than anything though. I believe that what they think they are fighting and what actually occurred are two separate things. Rape is a terrible thing. I conclude that energies spent against the Dickwolf comic could be better used elsewhere. Perhaps that is the real tragedy here.

 

 

 

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

9/06/13 7:34:34 PM#47

Another questionable topic call.

You know how Politics are against your policies?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5939

9/06/13 9:54:32 PM#48
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by Foomerang

You know, I get into arguments like these two or three times a year and its the same thing every time. I never said you should be censored. I never said you can't say what you wanna say.

All I'm saying is that we as a society need to try an understand where other people are coming from. That would solve so many problems with oppression and intolerance. But it seems so difficult for people to take a minute just to see that.

All you guys are saying is basically:

"I don't have a problem so its not a problem"
"If I did have a problem with it, Id just ignore it"
"I wouldnt hang around a place I didnt like, so it goes the same for this situation"
"If I was raped, I wouldnt care if someone made jokes"
"Hell I have cancer and I make cancer jokes so whats the big deal"
"All these people are trying to censor me"
"You need your head checked if you are offended by this"
"Your problem is that you have become brainwashed by whatever societal abnormalities I see going on in your country"

Its just a bunch of "me,me,me,I,I,I, you should do this".

Seriously take a moment to let down your guard. Realise that nobody is trying to change you. All that Im asking is to practice some empathy.

Unfortunately, we have perverted empathy to the point that we defend intolerance.. and we do it in the name of tolerance.

I'm not going to reply to or read this thread anymore. I should have stuck with my initial reaction to the disclaimer. Thanks Bill, for talking me out of it lol, dick!

Even though your not gonna reply I'm still gonna answer this.

Not once did I say anything you have in quotes.Not once did I say someone who has been raped or know someone that does doesn't have the right to complain and feel any way they want about anything.

I did ask whether your solution to keeping everyone safe from reading anything that might offend them was to sanitize or censor everything.That would make the world a very boring but very safe place.

No one here has said they don't have empathy for rape victims or any other victimized group.Just because they think someone should be able to use rape in a joke doesn't mean they support rape or lack empathy for the raped.That's like saying someone that makes a joke about Syria right now supports Tyranny and Chemical Weapon attacks or lacks empathy for the victims of those attacks or the millions of refugees pouring out of Syria.That's ludicrous.

I understand what you're saying and you're free to do that.  But what I would hope is that people consider other people and how our actions as individuals contribute to our society and how that affects other people.

I don't doubt that those telling and participating in the joke don't actually approve of rape. However, they are laughing at the brutal misfortune of others right around them. At some point even though one can do something, we have to ask should we. As humans this has to be our least asked question.

So yeah we can make a joke about Syria, but I hope people are picturing helpless frightened people being burnt to death, just wishing they could have a few more seconds of life. I hope they would think about the people they love being in that same predicament, and how that would tear at them.

Some things just aren't funny and shouldn't be joked about. Not because we're not free to, but because, after considering those around us, we are free not to say something hateful.

With all that said, I wouldn't rage against this if it had been about some joke said in private that got leaked out. That would just be some jerk trying to stir up trouble. But these are public figures with a social influence and they purposely said something insensitive and hateful. What they say and how they say it has a greater impact than your average person. Their marginalization of the subject has an affect and makes a public statement, whether they intended to or not (and no mistake they intended to capitalize on this for publicity), condoning a flippant attitude towards the subject. Public figures have different rights, responsibilities, and rules.

Sorry Victor, but nothing will happen with these guys. I don't accept his apology as sincere. I think he's apologizing because his lawyer and his publicist said so. He wouldn't have brought the subject up again and said the idiotic things he did if had genuinely regretted it. I think he genuinely regrets shooting his mouth off and the possible financial impact. That's about it.

 

Curse you AquaScum!

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5939

9/06/13 10:01:26 PM#49
Originally posted by Sassy_Gay_Unicorn

Well, simply don't publish the strip then. Then nobody gets hurt.

But then no one gets their day brightened by the comic either. 

***

Humor often comes at the expense of others.  We laugh because it is not us being used as the source of merriment. Comedy is drama at another's expense. Artists of all stripes could not possibly self-censor their works so that no one was at risk of being offended. Nothing of value would be created. 

And in regards to humor, tastes run the entire spectrum of human potential. What you find funny I may not, and vice versa.

In the end, the artist must be allowed to create. If he is found to be offensive, then that is an issue rooted in the viewer, and the viewer himself has the choice to continue his patronage of said, ask the artist to refrain from what is found offensive in the future, or to boycott. And since the artist cannot possibly cater to everyone, the artist's responsibility ultimately becomes to cater to himself and himself alone. 

The onus is on the audience: do not support art you find objectionable. 

But what was objectionable about this comic? There was no intent to harm. There was no premeditation to offend. Only by taking one word, and then stripping it of the surrounding context, is something that is almost universally reviled created. It is akin to saying that 'The Adventures of Tom Sawyer' is racist propaganda because the 'n-word' is used. It is a ridiculous argument. 

Yet this is the argument many have chosen. That is certainly their right. I think they are harming art more than anything though. I believe that what they think they are fighting and what actually occurred are two separate things. Rape is a terrible thing. I conclude that energies spent against the Dickwolf comic could be better used elsewhere. Perhaps that is the real tragedy here.

If we need to get our day brightened at another's expense, then I say it's time to find another way to bright our day.

A lot of comedy in history mocked and ridiculed the hateful, oppressors, and of course political enemies. One doesn't generally doesn't poke holes in people we value just for a laugh.

I do agree that the onus is on the audience and that it appears I'm in the minority. I don't support the conventions and I certainly no longer support Penny Arcade.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Swedish_Chef

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/13
Posts: 225

Bort bort bort!

9/06/13 11:17:46 PM#50

90% of comedy is making light of either your own misfortunes, or those of others. It's a perfectly healthy way of dealing with the terrible things which happen in this world on a daily basis. If we couldn't laugh about some of these situations, we'd all be near-suicidally depressed & taking psychotropic drugs by the handful every morning (hell, there are already people who do that as it is).

I would also like to say, loud and clear, that you do NOT have the right to never be offended. People always have, and always will say things that somebody, somewhere, will find offensive. If you don't like it, don't listen to that person. Walk away, change the station, put down the book, stop supporting the company, etc.

If I take care of myself, I could be around for another 50 or more years given sufficient advancements in medical technology (and God willing, of course). I'm not going to spend that time walking on eggshells just because some oversensitive twit might get offended by one of my viewpoints, jokes, opinions, or statements.

I'm so sick of the ridiculous levels of political correctness these days. Even a racial slur used in a non-racist fashion can completely obliterate somebody's entire life. To me that's more offensive than any amount of jokes about rape.

  MortisRex

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/04
Posts: 367

9/07/13 10:35:02 PM#51
Putting aside the absolutely disgusting lack of empathy, you so called first amendment champions are just as close-minded as the ridiculous feminist that spell woman with a y. You support the first amendment when it's something that entertains you (like rape, apparently) but the minute someone speaks out against your ThomasJefferson guaranteed right to laugh at rape , you want that person to shut up and go away. Just like every other selfish special snowflake the only viewpoints you see as valid are your own and you are quick to to bravely bully and harass others who don't share your viewpoints. You know, the first amendment is an either or thing. Either everyone is entitled to express their opinions or no-one is. you are just as free to not read anti-tape articles as this offended by tape jokes are to avoid humor they find tasteless. If you aren't capable of recognizing the hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty you are demonstrating by trying to silence critics, then you're probably on the intellectual level of someone who enjoys a good rape joke but reacts to critical thinking and reasoning like a vampire reacts to the sun.
  MMOWarrior

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/09
Posts: 33

9/08/13 4:16:03 AM#52
You guys just don't get it.. and sadly so many of you think it's cute and funny to perpetuate a hostile and uncomfortable space for women gamers.. this article wasn't about the old comic strip it was about the disgusting community reaction that is repeating itself right here.. 
  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

9/08/13 4:29:20 AM#53
I don't see anything funny about rape jokes. I bet a person who was raped wouldn't find it funny either.
  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

9/08/13 4:32:15 AM#54
Originally posted by Swedish_Chef

90% of comedy is making light of either your own misfortunes, or those of others. It's a perfectly healthy way of dealing with the terrible things which happen in this world on a daily basis. If we couldn't laugh about some of these situations, we'd all be near-suicidally depressed & taking psychotropic drugs by the handful every morning (hell, there are already people who do that as it is).

I would also like to say, loud and clear, that you do NOT have the right to never be offended. People always have, and always will say things that somebody, somewhere, will find offensive. If you don't like it, don't listen to that person. Walk away, change the station, put down the book, stop supporting the company, etc.

If I take care of myself, I could be around for another 50 or more years given sufficient advancements in medical technology (and God willing, of course). I'm not going to spend that time walking on eggshells just because some oversensitive twit might get offended by one of my viewpoints, jokes, opinions, or statements.

I'm so sick of the ridiculous levels of political correctness these days. Even a racial slur used in a non-racist fashion can completely obliterate somebody's entire life. To me that's more offensive than any amount of jokes about rape.

So would you still find rape jokes funny if your daughter was raped? People make fun of other people who have died so i am not surprised rape amuses them. It has nothing to do with political correctness it has to do with empathy and common decency to your fellow man/woman.

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

9/08/13 4:37:13 AM#55
I am pretty sure mmorpg.com write these topics so they can ban people. This topic is against their own rules of conduct. Every time a topic like this is raised lots of people end up getting banned.
  Arakazi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/09
Posts: 864

9/08/13 4:40:11 AM#56

Well.. Penny Arcade and some people on here must realize that the gaming is made up of more than neckbeards and basement dwellers. The gaming community, being as large as it is, will include victims of rape and child abuse, it's just an unfortunate statistical reality.

It was a stupid joke anyway, only a teenager or manchild would find it funny.

<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/11.jpg></a></p>RL][/CENTER]

  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

9/08/13 4:44:00 AM#57
The internet proves to me that people are fake, they hide themselves out in the real world because they are afraid. The minute they get behind a keyboard they are the toughest mofo you've ever seen, They go to the gym 7 days a week and can get any girl they want and everyone else is either a virgin or has no job in their opinion.
  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1660

9/08/13 6:18:48 AM#58
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by PAL-18

What happens in games happens in peoples minds and there they should stay.

And if I'm understanding you correctly I would agree. I love it and it's a great sentiment.

However, there are going to be people who point to you and say "because you play x games you condone their messages of violence and misogyny and the use of drugs and etc (whatever the game has).

And I don't believe for one minute you do.

So that's why I don't believe in censorship. I just believe in people staying out of places they don't want to be in and I believe in people saying their piece but not seeking to force it down anyone's throat.

Thats what i tried to say to Mr.Spock.

Lets imagine that im on the bus for example and say to my friend that "lets rob this bus and drive it to China" as a joke, not a good one but anyways,then i stand up and tell that to everyone.

Would be better to e-mail my terrible joke to the people who would like to hear it.

They tried to teach childrens with those methods still at 80´s and we got wiser and figured out that it does not work it actually has the opposite effect.

I dont know which one would be better,censorhip or let everybody to say /do what they are thinking.

I prefer censorship.

 

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"

 

 

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." 

 

 

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  Satyros

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/13/13
Posts: 39

9/08/13 8:09:05 AM#59

Really!?

In a while the "robery victims" will protest against the rogue class, becomming a catholic priest will require 5 years of cleric experience in any major mmo and skinning/looting animals will be banned due to vegetarians protesting.

Guess why this kind of humor is legal. Because noone makes you sit and take it. Unlike rapists.

  Blackrayn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/04
Posts: 145

9/08/13 8:36:02 AM#60

Empathy, feelings, caring all great things! Censorship, forbidding, restricting are bad things! But, living in Dr. Cocteau's world (Demolition Man) is not the answer! Everyone is different, but the push to remove any civil liberties you have whether it be telling a rape joke, liking a violent/sexual video game or movie, religion... whatever. The policing of our liberties is way outta control. The answer isn't stopping what you don't like, but like many have said not supporting or condoning what someone is saying that you don't like! 

 But, it really boggles my mind that people are so hurt about words coming out of peoples mouths? When  you sit back and look at the world and what is happening innocent people dying. And things that were said in a comic strip that you have the "choice" to read! I'm almost positive that everyone in Syria that is going through that travesty would trade places with all of you that can't handle hearing a joke! I would gladly be the victim of all the heinous crimes talked about here, to not live in a country like that where "Censorship" "Forbidding" and "Restricting" are the way! Working well for them isn't it??

 

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